The BBC F1 coverage thread (Legard out. Brundle and DC in.)

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by jammyozzy, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. Ardius

    Ardius

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    The coverage has improved notably this weekend, a rather more polished and better co-ordinated effort than last weekend.

    This time around EJ managed to tone down the long-winded talking and actually make some interesting insights, finally his past as a team principal and team owner has come to use and its interesting to hear his thoughts on the McLaren mess and also how teams work out strategies, sponsors, etc.

    David and Jake were once again very good, Jake is quickly beating Steve Rider as a great presenter and is great at quickly adapating to changes in schedule if drivers or videos are unavailable, asking good questions to David and Eddie in the meantime.

    Brundle was as usual great, and Legard is improving. He still makes mistakes and still has tendencey to state whats on screen rather than giving us a better picture of the action (hence the whole point of actually being at the track, rather than in a studio).
    He also tends to hang on the same name a lot but other than that he's improving, gelling better with Martin and not annoying which is the key thing. As I believe Murray Walker once said, the best kind of commentary is the kind you don't notice, so in this regard Legard is just fine...way better than Allen's (and to a lesser extent, Croft's) shouting style of commentary.

    The best part of the BBC coverage so far has to be the sheer variety of red button options and the massive coverage they are giving, on the website, in the standard coverage and in red button. Great job and its nice to have a less biased coverage too.
     
  2. Stevisiov

    Stevisiov Premium

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    I have to say I was a little unsure last week, but things seem to gel well now, coverage is much better than ITV, its nice to see over half the drivers interviewed rather than just Hamilton.

    ...Oh, and that's before we get to advert breaks.
     
  3. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Wish I could say the same about the Australian broadcast. They'll sit around for half an hour beforehand discussing the obvious, and every time we get back from a commercial break, they feel the need to update everyone before cutting back to the BBC commentary. And they're as bad as James Allen; all we're going to be getting is Mark Webber this and Mark Webber that and Mark Webber is certain of victory today. When Allen did it with Hamilton, Hamiton was at least in a position to win.
     
  4. Ardius

    Ardius

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    For anyone who hasn't tried the CBBC commentary on red button, here is a brief excerpt you may enjoy:
    http://www.dailymotion.com/Stefmeister2008/video/14812931

    It is really funny coverage and its great to hear Perry McCarthy - what a legend. Good stuff :tup:

    I tried it during the Malaysian GP and it was good then too but I did use the Brundle/Legard commentary for most of it as I'm bit more of a fan of Brundle than McCarthy or Davidson unfortunately.
    This is why:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiwXaP9-BZs

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7899464.stm

    :lol:
     
  5. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    I'm defiantly listening to the CBBC commentary in the next race!
     
  6. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2009
  7. Sureboss

    Sureboss Premium

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    I always remember Mike Gascoyne trying to do a smokey start in the Jordan at Goodwood one year and cooking it and he was heading straight for me. [/usefulinformation]
     
  8. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Nice lol :tup:
    While we're on the subject of interesting people we've seen on the track - I saw Nakajima's brother, Daisuke, racing in F3 yesterday at Oulton Park and he was pretty good :tup:
    I also saw Josh Hill make his debut in British Formula Ford too, he did pretty well, an 8th place finish in such close fields is pretty decent.
     
  9. Robin

    Robin Premium

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    Having watched these 2 races I have to say that im not that big a fan of BBC's coverage, and heres why...

    Firstly it seems like we have entered a Radio 2 style time warp and clearly the BBC has aimed it at that demographic. This is clear from all the music bits, the intro... ending etc. When I heard The Who on that meet the drivers thing I nearly cried! ITV had flash cars, flash women... moby and other stuff aimed at a younger demographic. It just seemed less dull.

    Which leads me on to the Jake Humphrey, David, Eddie trio. The first race they were so damn boring clearly filling time now that there are no advert breaks. I don't think thats a good pairing at all. And having a CBBC looking presenter to balance it out doesnt help either, he just annoys me and I dont know why!

    The fact that they are more intune with the current era of F1 is good and they do provide some interesting input but most of it is just them standing round not saying all that much and thats to kill time, adverts never bothered me, it was an opportunity to get food and they would replay anything interesting anyway. Bring back Steve Rider and Blundell any day!

    Jonathan Legard, oh dear! ok, he is new to the job but when you feel like your missing James Allen's commentary you know its a bad sign! His voice just seems a tad too posh and as was said he sounds like a horse racing commentator. He tends to pause before saying a drivers name because he has to read who it is and the number one thing that bugs me is the 'from' thing... who on earth says Alonso 'FROM' Vettel etc.. how about the correct term... 'THEN'.

    Finally, I think its terrible Louise Goodman wasnt even giving an opportunity to continue as pit reporter seeing as Ted Kravitz got in. The new girl seems so cold and again, dull. Louise was alot more friendly and really asked the drivers alot more interesting questions.

    The coverage is far from bad, but I don't think its any better than ITV was at all. I would have hired the entire ITV crew across but I knew BBC would want to put their own mark on things.

    Thats my 2 cents :)

    Robin.
     
  10. Ardius

    Ardius

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    ^I disagree with it all!

    I definitely do not miss Allen's commentary, Legard is instantly better just for not being so damn loud and not having a thing for Hamilton/Button.

    Here are the additional features why BBC is better:
    -3 (yes 3) different commentary options, so if you don't like Legard, don't listen to him!
    -Red button options, features, etc such as the classic GP's, Murray Walker's thoughts and Q&A, interactive forum after the race.
    -Far less bias, some bias still around but thats natural, it is still the British coverage after all. But at least now we have a bit more focus on the rest of the grid, we've had interviews with almost every driver on the grid now.
    -As mentioned, the lack of advert breaks...how can this be a bad thing? Seriously, you'd rather miss live action just to have a pre-defined toilet break? If this is an issue for you, I have to question how interested you are in the sport (or any live sport for that matter). The amount of action we missed over the years with ITV coverage was horrible. What's stopping you from taking a break by yourself?
    -A lot better website, better coverage of the practice sessions and overall a lot more professional feel than ITV. There are a few mistakes here and there with the coverage not being perfect, such as the features, etc but that's to be expected only 2 races in.

    The big surprise was Jake Humphrey - he has turned out to be a great presenter, asking a lot better questions than Steve Rider and the talk between Jake and David Coulthard is a lot better than Rider and Blundell struggling with the english language again. Just saying you find him somehow annoying just because he used to be a CBBC presenter doesn't cut it - this guy is really good in my opinion and his blog is great!

    My only dislike is Eddie Jordan from time to time, he talks a little too much but its a minor thing, he has some interesting input from time to time still.

    As for the "its dull and aimed at old people" comments, thats what I prefer thanks, I like it kept professional, technical and to the point, this is sport not a cartoon, its nice to have cartoon characters like Mark Blundell and James Allen gone thanks. The criticsm aimed at Legard isn't very fair to be honest, James Allen made many, many mistakes, as does Brundle today! They are after all human, and in Legard's defence, he hasn't commentated for a while and the last time was radio commentary - a whole different style of commentating.

    Oh, and its also nice to not have a thousand Hamilton-related interviews, press conferences cut short when Hamilton has either said his share or isn't there, and so on and so forth.
     
  11. Robin

    Robin Premium

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    I do agree that not having blantant Hamilton worship is way better and they no longer bang on about him but to me its not a welcome suprise, its a given as the BBC has an obligation to not be bias and cover all drivers equally.

    I don't have freeview (the standard signal is amazing) making all those red button perks not available to me, even if I had them I really wouldnt have an interest in hearing alternative commentry or driving onboard in a particular car. I prefer the media directors to make the decisions on whats worth watching, its just my personal view but I never buy into these special features or alternate cameras on any media including DVD's etc.

    As for adverts, its not a matter of devotion to the sport, I have watched F1 constantly since the mid 90's and I dont feel that commitment means I have to keep my eyes constantly on the race for the whole 2-3 hours.

    And this goes for adverts in anything live, I dont have a problem with it. If it was left up to me too choose when to leave the room I would probably end up putting it off or going at a wrong time all of which would be distracting my mindset from actually enjoying the thing!

    With an advert break chosen by the station (they are not predefined) I feel like they know its a good time and also I am guarenteed that they will show me anything I missed in a replay when it comes back on.

    With BBC coverage if I have left the room and something has happened chances are I wont see the moment again (if I have missed the replay).

    I didnt even know Jake Humphrey used to be CBBC until you just told me!, he just looked like it! Its not even about that, it just seems like he is not all that interested in what he his doing / presenting about... its like he doesnt really want to be there which annoys me.

    I never said "old people" if thats how you interpreted it. Saying ITV was aimed at a younger crowd doesnt mean that that im saying this is old. Its just very Radio 2, a demographic which could be anyone but its not a style which I feel is particularly upbeat for one of the fastest motorsports on the planet.

    Legard commentary is let down by the lack of his knowledge in the sport and also commentating at speed (hence using crazy english doesnt help!). He actually makes less mistakes that Allen but he is nowhere near as informative. As I said its early days and he improved in the 2nd race but Brundle should be doing more of the talking for now.

    I didnt feel that ITV was any less professional and technical, its just too much of a good thing can make it dull (as a result of having more time to fill). I dont want to hear from Richard Branson for example!

    The racing however has been spectacular, and I just feel that the BBC hasnt actually offered anything over what ITV would have done with it.

    Robin.
     
  12. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Not for viewers without freeview or digital....no. But then I'm not especially surprised by that, and ITV wouldn't (didn't) give us this amount of options.

    The issue with advert breaks, missing action, etc - if ITV pick your time, its little different, they don't control the video feed so they couldn't show you the action you missed either, only tell you about it - which is the commentators job anyway, to keep people informed regardless how much of the race they have or haven't watched.
    Besides, this is the point of the red button options - you can view the race in full again if you so wish, but its such a minor thing anyway and personally I'd rather be able to watch the full 2 hours rather than bits of it with irritating advert breaks. I realise you have no interest in digital options but its fast becoming the only way to watch TV anyway - in a year or two you won't be able to watch TV without freeview so really its inevitable.

    I will just leave this as I disagree entirely because its not a discussion thats going places lol. All the points you raise I have the opposite view on and I am perfectly happy with the coverage so far - I hope it never changes broadcaster for a while again!

    I don't get this impression at all, the opposite in fact, no idea how that works, lol. His blog certainly comes across as motivated and interested for what its worth.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  13. Robin

    Robin Premium

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    Its fair enough that we have differing viewpoints, I was just putting my personal opinion on the switch across. Im not unhappy about the coverage, its just the BBC's return was overhyped and hailed as the glorious return to amazing F1 broadcasting.

    EDIT- Regarding the video feed, although ITV dont control the live feed they do dynamically pick times which might be good for a break and more crucially, the live feed is designed to factor in channels with adverts which most stations showing the coverage in various countries will have.

    ITV also has the power to show its own self generated replays (playback the stuff you missed) after the break which I have seen many times. You can tell when the replay is shown right after the advert break or when Martin says heres the replay.

    Robin.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  14. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Well it is :p
     
  15. Chronos

    Chronos

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    I'm not missing James Allen's commentary either.

    I did say Legard sounded like a horse racing commentator and that was quite apparent in the first quali in Melbourne but he's getting better and more measured each time.

    I don't think Legard is great but he's still better than James Allen. I feel both commentators struggle to sound excited. They try to inject excitement into their voice but it comes across as not natural to their personality. Finding a good presenter interested in F1 with natural enthusiastic personality is hard.

    I used to cringe at Steve Riders wobbly microphone chats to Blundell. I never felt the questions went anywhere and Blundell was just repeating the same old things due to poor questions. I only ever got interested when Brundle and Blundell were stood next to each other once in a blue moon. Blundell on his own felt like a spare wheel. Steve Rider seemed not to care about F1 anymore like Jim Rosenthal came across.

    Jake Humphrey, DC, Eddie are getting better each time too. Giving more of their own opinion and experience. Jake strings it together nicely with professionalism where he keeps things going. The time they have to fill is a problem though. They can only say so much but when you employ them you can't use them sparingly. The only problem with Jake is he asks about the mindset over and over to DC, and I sense DC was thinking I've just answered this.

    I'm disappointed that Brundle isn't doing in-depth pieces about the cars etc, they're all to brief now and poor quality. Time will tell.

    I like Ted Kravitz, he's a natural talker so I'm glad the BBC kept him on.

    I'm most pleased about no adverts for important happenings during and after the race. I hate missing the after race stuff. Practice sessions via the red button on freeview or online stream. Excellent website packed full that even has time for Murrays Q's. The after race show was great at Melbourne with DC, Brundle, EJ and guest going over the race together.

    I take your point Robin about it maybe needing more glam and girls that F1 is also. When they cut back to Legard and Brundle in the comm box, they look like a pair Star trek nerds in the basement - so funny, I'm surprised BBC would show them this way.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure ITV didn't show live Quali sometimes.

    Anyway, the extensive coverage overall compared to ITV scraps get a thumbs up from me and I'll be watching the practice later.
     
  16. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Wow, Mike Gascoyne > Eddie Jordan for me today. A lot of nice insight and doesn't talk so much like EJ.

    I actually hope the BBC decide to expand their line-up to David, Eddie and Mike as well because both EJ and Gascoyne have some great perspectives thanks to their previous roles.

    Looking forward to Mike's thoughts tomorrow. :tup:

    Also, possibly the best explanation of the diffuser row so far:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8005511.stm
     
  17. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Sorry for the double post, but we can ask DC questions ahead of the German GP:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8130477.stm

    (edited out the "@" so the BBC don't have to deal with spam :lol:)
     
  18. Sureboss

    Sureboss Premium

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    "Given that the universe is infinite, and that all matter started from a single point, would you like some toast?"
     
  19. Alex.

    Alex. Premium

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    We want no muffins, no toast, no teacakes, no buns, baps, baguettes or bagels, no croissants, no crumpets, no pancakes, no potato cakes and no hot-cross buns! And DEFINITELY. NO. SMEGGIN’. FLAPJACKS!
     
  20. Ardius

    Ardius

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  21. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Sorry for the double post but heres an interesting article from F1Racing on behind the scenes with the BBC coverage:
    Credit where its due: thanks to MODTL and DMN on the autosport forums for the scans.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  22. yeti

    yeti

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    Great find of a great article...

    Cheers,

    C.
     
  23. Ardius

    Ardius

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    So, the first year back with the BBC, what are people's thoughts? How do you rate the commentary? website? extra services (red button stuff)? pit lane reporting? bias? interviews? coverage of important news? technical pieces? comparison to ITV?

    Personally, I think its been far, far better than ITV and possibly the best coverage I've ever watched of any sport ever. My only issue is still Legard perhaps not being the best ever (as there are better options, e.g. David Croft and Ben Edwards). But otherwise, I've been happy with the rest.

    Jake Humphrey - I haven't changed my opinion since the start of the season, very good presenter, way better than Steve Rider, good blogs and works well with the pundits and various members of the F1 circus. Appears to get on with all the drivers as he's had some very good interviews (Massa, Hamilton about liegate, Mosley, Barrichello, many others).

    Eddie Jordan - At first I wondered if my excitement at seeing him back in the F1 paddock life was misjudged as he seemed a little OTT. But over the season his knowledge as team principal and his ability to just run and grab quite legendary people for a quick interview has been very useful. His outrageous opinions and statements make for a great banter between him and DC and always gives me a chuckle (or horrifys only for later chuckles).

    David Coulthard - Like many, didn't really rate or like him as a race driver but he has really come into his own as a pundit for the BBC. Great driver insight sometimes even better than Brundle and he compliments Brundle very well. Argues the sense into EJ's comments and makes great TV. Always asks some good questions when interviewing people and he works well on grid walks. Always like to hear his thoughts on various things.

    Jonathan Legard - Over the season he has improved but he's mediocre. Doesn't really add any excitement to the race, which the great commentators do, he's almost a polar opposite of James Allen - who was so OTT and loud that he took the excitement out in the opposite sense. I know Murray Walker isn't everyone's cup of tea but some genuine excitement and interest is way better than the "woofs" and "thats not goods" from Legard. Spends too much time looking at timing screens sometimes and it leads him to call the race completely wrong or make a big deal of insignificant things.

    Martin Brundle - Not much to say really, brilliant as ever. Great insight, not afraid to voice strong opinions and criticise drivers. Good at calling the action but could really do with a better co-commentator. Grid walks are great as always, his features are good too and as is his insight in the red button forums and his questions.

    Ted Kravitz - Under-rated and funny, when the commentators or presenters say they are cutting to Ted I always know its something interesting or important news of some kind. Very pointed questions in interviews, he seems to have a good relationship with all the teams and drivers and has had a fair few scoops during and outside of races. He also goes well with Crofty and Davidson in free practice.

    Lee McKenzie - Not sure to be honest. She has had a few good interviews and usually asks some good questions. Sometimes she asks some rather obvious and dumb ones (e.g. "you must be disappointed for crashing out/not finishing/etc?") but overall good enough considering Ted is so good it doesn't really matter. I did like her couple of features about the fans around the circuit (Monaco, Spain).

    David Croft/Anthony Davidson/Maurice Hamilton/Ian Philips/Holly Samos (free practice/5live radio commentary) - Awesome stuff. Free Practice is made enjoyable purely by these people. Crofty and Davidson are such a good pairing I'm surprised they didn't get used for the main commentary. Maurice Hamilton has some good stories from the old days, Ian Philips too (though his opinions are sometimes typical old man drivel :lol:). Holly Samos is the equal of Ted Kravitz from the few times we've heard from her, especially the interviews with Bridgestone and Shell, very interesting stuff.

    Jackie Stewart/Mike Gascoyne (guest commentators/pundits) - Not much to say again, Jackie I could listen to all day. Has a lot of stories to tell, has an opinion on everything, knows his stuff and only the occasional mistake. Gascoyne did such a good job at explaining the diffuser situation and various other technical things too. I wouldn't mind either of them appearing again.

    Perry McCarthy (CBBC commentary) - Admittedly, I didn't listen to the CBBC commentary as much as I'd have liked because I wanted to hear either Brundle or Davidson's thoughts. But the bits I did listen to were great, those who didn't try it missed out because McCarthy is a legend, especially among those who are F1 Rejects fans. Not surprised its being done again next year as it was apparently quite popular.

    Andrew Benson/Murray Walker/general website content - Good, could do with better organisation as its difficult to search for specific things. Andrew Benson has some unique views and although I don't normally agree with him, he does do a good job on articles and explains things sufficiently. I believe he was the first person to suggest the Raikkonen to McLaren solution when everyone wondered what would happen if Alonso moved. Murray is good as ever, his previews and reviews sum things up well and his questions and answers are funny and again interesting. Classic F1 is a great feature and its good to know its being continued next year.

    Comparison to ITV...do I miss James Allen? - No contest. We have The Chain for the intro, we have no adverts, we have fuller coverage that isn't afraid to overrun and I believe the bias is a lot better. Naturally some British bias with some focus on them, but not so much that other drivers are ignored and their achievements are missed like on ITV. As for James Allen, I do not miss him one bit. I can only imagine what his outburst would have been at Brazil 2009. Legard isn't much better but he is more bearable.
     
  24. Sureboss

    Sureboss Premium

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    Legard is really the only weak link in The Chain....

    Coverage has been exceptional this year.
     
  25. TheCracker

    TheCracker Premium

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    Agreed with the above totally :tup:

    I've totally enjoyed this years coverge on BBC. My only regret is finding the aftershow 'red button' extras for the first time today. Seing everyone relaxed post-race is a great insight. ITV and it's adverts every five minutes hasn'tbeen missed in the slightest.
     
  26. spyrrari

    spyrrari

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    I allways used to watch the races via the dutch tv after the BBC lost it to ITV...This whas horrible because the dutch channelo has bad timed commercial brakes and a complete moron as a commentator who constantly misses the most important things during a race and talkes non stop about nothing interesting at all!!!!.....
    Now that the BBC got it back this year i never ever watched anything else again!!!
    The BBC coverage is fantastic,also all my F1 friends and F1 watching family here in Holland all watch the BBC !!!!...


    Topjob!




    spyrrari.
     
  27. Pescara for GT5

    Pescara for GT5

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    Speed TV here in America has good coverage, and commentators the only problem is that they show the races live(which means that all the races start at 2 in the morning) and then don't normally show reruns.
     
  28. Only_in_f1

    Only_in_f1

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    The F1 forum afterwards is a great asset. Alot more insight into the drivers rather than a 20 second clip of 'I had slight understeer.' .

    Fantastic year of coverage 10x's as better than ITV
     
  29. maximumattack

    maximumattack

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    The BBC coverage has been far better than ITV.

    I would like to hear Anthony Davidson alongside Martin Brundle in the commentary box as I think they are the best commentators the BBC have right now.

    I'm not convinced of the DC EJ pairing, I'd rather DC stay on over EJ as the things Coulthard says often seem more relevant and based on fact, however, EJ was good on the pitwalk with Brundle yesterday and he does seem to get respect from along the paddock (he's always waving & winking at folk when he thinks he's off camera) so I suppose he's useful to have around.

    The major development I'd love to see for next season is for the whole thing to be broadcast in HD, I read on another site that Germany get it in HD already, if this is true then I'd like to see the BBC make this available for us in the UK.
     
  30. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    Excellent synopsis, Ardius - and I agree with most of it too... Legard is the only one who hasn't quite made the grade, but the rest make up for it. The style of presenting, with Humphrey, Coulthard and Jordan is relaxed, fun to watch, and insightful. F1 belongs on the BBC (in the UK anyway!)...