The best sounding automotive engine is a...

[PublicSecrecy]

i would say the v16 engine which will be in the Bugatti Veyron 16.4. that should make a PHENOMENAL noise!!!

Correct me if im wrong, but I thought the Veyron 16.4 had a W16? ala 2 skinny V8's stuck side-by-side?

 

[Lethalchem]

Cheap horsepower = getting horsepower by making a giant crappy engine (ala 8.3L V10)
Good/Expensive horsepowe = getting horsepower using ingenuity and technology (ala 3.0L V12 [but thats a little over-the-top] )

Seems we have different definitions. You must mean "cheap" in a cheating sense, as opposed to price. To me, "cheap" horsepower comes from modifications that don't cost much, or are free completely. Which there's nothing wrong with, in my mind.

Also, I feel like the DOHC 32valve 281 is fairly advanced. I don't know why "good" has to equate to the smallest engine you can possibly build. What's the point in that? Ok, let's say you get a 1.0L to produce 150hp, and a 3.0L to produce 450hp, you'd rather drive the 150 just because it's "expensive hp?" I don't understand that concept. I don't care how you make the power, 150hp is going to be boring in a car.

 

[RacyBacy]

I don't care how you make the power, 150hp is going to be boring in a car.

You must be joking! There are a lot of cars that have 150bhp (or less) and they are far from boring. In fact there is one in GT4 (the VW Mk1 gti).

You should try it.

 

[Lethalchem]

You must be joking! There are a lot of cars that have 150bhp (or less) and they are far from boring. In fact there is one in GT4 (the VW Mk1 gti).

You should try it.

No, I'm not even remotely joking. Yes, I've driven "peppy" little cars like your VW, and think they are GREAT cars......for women, and teeneage girls driving to the mall.

 

[RacyBacy]

Everybody to their own I suppose but to label a Mk1 gti as a ladies' car is just wrong.

I think differently and don't limit my opinion of cars because of their (in your opinion) lack of bhp. In fact, sometimes it is great to get in a car with less power (and a lot less weight) after driving about in one with excess of both.

 

[Lethalchem]

Everybody to their own I suppose but to label a Mk1 gti as a ladies' car is just wrong.

I think differently and don't limit my opinion of cars because of their (in your opinion) lack of bhp. In fact, sometimes it is great to get in a car with less power (and a lot less weight) after driving about in one with excess of both.

My comments are all in good fun, although the basics are honest . I understand what you're saying, but unless you're talking about a motorcycle, 150hp just isn't enough to do much with. The miata is a good example of a low HP, light car. It does very well on an autocross course, but on the street (where it will spend the vast amount of it's time) it's just not enough. Try it out on a track like The 'Ring and see how much fun it is compared to higher HP cars. You'll spend all week getting down the straights.

I've participated in your example on several occasions. I autocross my Cobra once a month, and I'll often co-drive with a friend who has a 2002 Toyota Celica GT. In this example, I'm going from a 3660lb (without me in it) car with 510hp/530tq to a 2400lb car with 140hp/125tq. Like you said, it's kind of fun to toss around a parking lot, but get it on the street and it's really no more than mildly entertaining. Have you participated in a like situation?

 

[TheCracker]

My comments are all in good fun, although the basics are honest . I understand what you're saying, but unless you're talking about a motorcycle, 150hp just isn't enough to do much with. The miata is a good example of a low HP, light car. It does very well on an autocross course, but on the street (where it will spend the vast amount of it's time) it's just not enough. Try it out on a track like The 'Ring and see how much fun it is compared to higher HP cars. You'll spend all week getting down the straights.

I've participated in your example on several occasions. I autocross my Cobra once a month, and I'll often co-drive with a friend who has a 2002 Toyota Celica GT. In this example, I'm going from a 3660lb (without me in it) car with 510hp/530tq to a 2400lb car with 140hp/125tq. Like you said, it's kind of fun to toss around a parking lot, but get it on the street and it's really no more than mildly entertaining. Have you participated in a like situation?

I couldn't disagree with you more - i participate in a historic touring car championship, we have cars of all shapes and sizes from 998cc Hillman Imps (min 600kg) upto 7ltr Ford Galaxies (min 1375kg) i can asure you that the Imp drivers have just as much fun as the Galaxie drivers, in fact, although neither car is going to win a race outright - they both circulate at a similar pace on both fast and not-so-fast circuits. Horsepower is great for straights, but try putting all that power down out of a hairpin or similar. A more powerful car will generally weigh more than a less powerful car, so will underperform under braking and cornering. A powerful car may seem to the driver or casual observer to be quicker - but the forces applied to the car, and the effort needed to control the car accentuate the driving experience.

 

[Lethalchem]

I couldn't disagree with you more - i participate in a historic touring car championship, we have cars of all shapes and sizes from 998cc Hillman Imps (min 600kg) upto 7ltr Ford Galaxies (min 1375kg) i can asure you that the Imp drivers have just as much fun as the Galaxie drivers, in fact, although neither car is going to win a race outright - they both circulate at a similar pace on both fast and not-so-fast circuits. Horsepower is great for straights, but try putting all that power down out of a hairpin or similar. A more powerful car will generally weigh more than a less powerful car, so will underperform under braking and cornering. A powerful car may seem to the driver or casual observer to be quicker - but the forces applied to the car, and the effort needed to control the car accentuate the driving experience.

Again, you're talking track, and I'm talking street use, which is where most production cars (our focus, remember) spend their lives. If you guys enjoy a 150hp car, that's quite alright. Knock yourself out. If the world agreed that 150 was all you needed, then I guess that's all anyone would have, and there wouldn't be people modifying their cars all the time. Judging from all your responses, both you guys must play GT4 WITHOUT putting any hp mods on your cars, right???? ....Yeah...I thought not.

 

[Lethalchem]

Here's an educational video. Very old, and most have seen it already, but in case you havn't it's a race prepped Lotus against a non-race prepped Vette at the Ring. Video Link

 

[TheCracker]

Here's an educational video. Very old, and most have seen it already, but in case you havn't it's a race prepped Lotus against a non-race prepped Vette at the Ring. Video Link

The race-prepped Lotus (an exige or 'motorports' elise - pretty much the same thing) still would only have 190bhp, which is about all the K-series engine can muster - theres no evidance that the Vette in question is stock, meaning at least double the Lotus's horsepower, from what i can remember of the video the corvette pulls away on the rings many longish straights, but the Lotus catches in the slower stuff - what you'd expect really

 

[RacyBacy]

Again, you're talking track, and I'm talking street use, which is where most production cars (our focus, remember) spend their lives. If you guys enjoy a 150hp car, that's quite alright. Knock yourself out.

I've been knocked out! I can agree with you that- in general- I would rather drive a more powerful car than a less powerful one on the road/street. All I'm saying is that you can still have a lot of fun with low bhp. That's what started this after all. Seems you really are a joker...

There's a decent article in Retro Cars this month about an Abarth Fiat: 1-litre engine, 8500rpm rev limit, 500kg and 108bhp (based on Fiat 600).

"Small cars with badass engines. It's a lethal combination."

"We get a real kick from seeing teeny terrors such as the Abarths and Minis putting the frighteners on Mustangs"

both you guys must play GT4 WITHOUT putting any hp mods on your cars, right???? ....Yeah...I thought not.

I've not got GT4 yet (hopefully soon), but GT3 ... Oh yes. Why don't you join the Weekly Race Series ?

I'm a regular and respected Division 1 driver. Last week we had a V12 Lister Storm at Laguna Seca - finished 4th. This week we are tuning our cars with 100,000 credits. You should show just how fast you really are.

 

[Taurine]

Just yesterday I had the pleasure of listening to a 1300hp+ GTR idleing and free revving 👍

Single turbo straight 6 running on alcohol. It went on the dyno and only got to 4000rpm before it went pop, they've rebuilt it over the weekend and they finally had it put back together yesterday and they started it up to get some data off their computer. Idles at 1800rpm, revs out past 10,000 and making up around the 1400hp (now) mark has gotta sound awesome - and it did

 

[Lethalchem]

I've not got GT4 yet (hopefully soon), but GT3 ... Oh yes. Why don't you join the Weekly Race Series ?

I'm a regular and respected Division 1 driver. Last week we had a V12 Lister Storm at Laguna Seca - finished 4th. This week we are tuning our cars with 100,000 credits. You should show just how fast you really are.

The game's got nothing to do with reality. My point for bringing up GT was, based on the things you guys were saying, you shouldn't be modding your gaming vehicles either because all you need is 150hp in a light car.

The fact that we're arguing "fun" is silly in itself, since it's subjective. I don't find a 15 sec 1/4 mile car enjoyable in the least. I don't care how fast you can go around a parkinglot in it. If you are going to be competative against heavier high hp cars on a track, you're still going to need more power than 150. You can't stay in a turn forever.

 

[TheCracker]

If you are going to be competative against heavier high hp cars on a track, you're still going to need more power than 150. You can't stay in a turn forever.

You've obviously never driven Cadwell Park in the UK

 

[RacyBacy]

My point for bringing up GT was, based on the things you guys were saying, you shouldn't be modding your gaming vehicles either because all you need is 150hp in a light car.

I can drive both spectrums on the scale of horse power (and anything in between). Light car with minimal horsepower and big heavy cars with big horsepower. There's fun to be had in both.

Will you ever understand I wonder or just bang on about your useless (in the real world) quarter mile times?

 

[Gonzza]

Engine from a Top fuel dragster

 

[TheCracker]

I can drive both spectrums on the scale of horse power (and anything in between). Light car with minimal horsepower and big heavy cars with big horsepower. There's fun to be had in both.

If you can't get enjoyment out of a lightweight, lowish horsepowered car, and have to resort to wheelspin/straightline speed/lurching ungainly around corners coupled with plenty of overstear for your kicks - then you can't be a very talented driver in the first place

 

[Lethalchem]

I can drive both spectrums on the scale of horse power (and anything in between). Light car with minimal horsepower and big heavy cars with big horsepower. There's fun to be had in both.

Will you ever understand I wonder or just bang on about your useless (in the real world) quarter mile times?

Don't make assumptions. I never said I only participate in drag racing. Don't stereotype. I spend more time on the autocross course than I do on the drag strip. I also participated in several open road course events last year. I Can drive both spectrums, I just find one boring. If that insults you because you drive a slow heap, that's not my problem, that's your own issue. The thing is, what small hp car car is ever going to be more fun than the same car with more hp mods on it? If you have a 140hp miata that you like to toss around a track, are you telling me you'd have less fun in it just because somebody put a jackson spuercharger on it that produced 200hp? Don't be retarded.

If you can't get enjoyment out of a lightweight, lowish horsepowered car, and have to resort to wheelspin/straightline speed/lurching ungainly around corners coupled with plenty of overstear for your kicks - then you can't be a very talented driver in the first place

I don't expect you to understand, as you obviously are stuck driving a turd around all day. Think of it this way: When you first learn to ride a scooter, it's fun for awhile, but then you want more so you move up to a small motorcycle. You eventually grow accustomed to that and want more, so you move up to larger cc bikes, and so on. I guess you're still enjoying your tricycle, and havn't moved up yet. 💡

I can't believe you guys have gotten sand in your panties because somebody finds the slow cars you drive boring. It's an opinion. Surely you've come across people who have disagreed with yours before, eh? Stick with your little hamster powered matchbox cars, enjoy them all you like, just don't expect other people to get just as warm and fuzzy about them as you do. The whole discussion is silly anyway, as I don't think any of you would say, "Uhmm..no thanks, I don't want more horsepower. In fact, do you have a model that has less than 100hp please? I find them much more enjoyable"

 

[TheCracker]

You just can't expect Americans to enjoy a small perfectly balanced package when they generally all have the 'bigger is better' attitude. There is such a thing as 'too much power' - but i guess when all your roads are wide and flat and all your corners are 90degrees then the only fun you can have is wheelspinning and seing-how-fast-you-can-go-in-a-straight-line

 

[Lethalchem]

You just can't expect Americans to enjoy a small perfectly balanced package when they generally all have the 'bigger is better' attitude. There is such a thing as 'too much power' - but i guess when all your roads are wide and flat and all your corners are 90degrees then the only fun you can have is wheelspinning and seing-how-fast-you-can-go-in-a-straight-line

I agree with you completely, there IS a point where you can have too much hp on the street. 150 isn't it though.

Don't you guys have some sort of road rally (I know I've seen one on TV that takes place in New Zealand), where guys bring out all sorts of European cars and block off regular roads for racing? I enjoy watching that stuff. I see all kinds of Porsche's (mostly older) in addition to lots of tiny little things that I don't even recognize. I wish I knew the name of what that motorsport is called.

Anyway, they drive your special little twisty rough roads, but are all modded with as much HP as they can get in their cars. Don't they realize they'd have more fun if they took off their turbo and ran with just 120hp?? What's wrong with those guys?

"Americans" don't have some genetic disposition which inhibits us from liking small cars. *I* enjoy small cars myself, just high HP small cars, that's all. My favorite car of all time is the Shelby 427 Cobra. That's a tiny little car, and the body is even English I believe. Too bad they accidentally screwed it up by putting a V8 in it. What a bunch of morons they were, eh?

 

[Duke]

You just can't expect Americans to enjoy a small perfectly balanced package when they generally all have the 'bigger is better' attitude. There is such a thing as 'too much power' - but i guess when all your roads are wide and flat and all your corners are 90degrees then the only fun you can have is wheelspinning and seing-how-fast-you-can-go-in-a-straight-line

You're missing the point so badly you must be wanting to miss it, just so you can get in more 'Americans are penis-size-obsessed oafs' cracks.

He never said that he only cares about straight line acceleration. Quite the contrary. YOU are the ones who are forcing the assumption that you can have either handling or power, but not both. That's dead wrong. Lethalchem has pointed out repeatedly that he wants both. He's even brought up the point you all have ignored in your single-minded attempts to make Americans look stupid: given the choice between a great-handling car and the same great-handling car with more power, which would you choose?

When you can come out of a corner and lay black streaks until you need to brake for the next corner, then you have enough power.

Surely you can't pretend that Mark Donahue didn't like a good handling car, and was only obsessed with straight line acceleration.

 

[RacyBacy]

Don't make assumptions. I never said I only participate in drag racing. Don't stereotype. I spend more time on the autocross course than I do on the drag strip. I also participated in several open road course events last year. I Can drive both spectrums, I just find one boring.... Don't be retarded.

As far as making assumptions ... you just did since you don't know what I drive. And when did I say anything about drag racing? Jeez. My spectrums are low bhp and big bhp. Your spectrums are different since you're talking about autocross and the drag strip.

In terms of stereotyping... remember mentioning what we (or rather what we probably don't) do with our cars in Gran Turismo? Yeah you were stereotyping. Not like you to do that often.

Why don't you try and be less retarded next time. Damn that sounded American.

I can't believe you guys have gotten sand in your panties

I'm quite enjoying this. I've just checked and there's no sand. You sure it's not at your end?

He never said that he only cares about straight line acceleration.

...

I don't find a 15 sec 1/4 mile car enjoyable in the least. I don't care how fast you can go around a parkinglot

Seems you are missing the point badly.

End of convo anyway. To get back on topic, the best sounding automotive engine is the in-line 5 sound of the quattro!

 

[Lethalchem]

And when did I say anything about drag racing? Jeez. My spectrums are low bhp and big bhp.

You're not the only one I've been addressing.

In terms of stereotyping... remember mentioning what we (or rather what we probably don't) do with our cars in Gran Turismo? Yeah you were stereotyping. Not like you to do that often.

The GT comment was based on your statement "...that you can still have a lot of fun with low bhp". I simply disagreed, as I feel low hp cars just don't have the enjoyment factor of higher hp ones. Meaning, if you can have fun in a small car with low HP, then you're going to have more fun with a small car with MORE HP. If you disagreed with that, then you must not mod your cars in GT. That was the line of thought.

Why don't you try and be less retarded next time. Damn that sounded American.

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Your-a-peon-s always bring nationality into the discussion. "America" this and "American's" that. You can't get much worse than stereotyping an entire country.

I can't recall the last time I saw an Ameican member of this site putting down another country on a national level. Yet we have to listen to your jealous whining on a daily basis. I say jealous, for I can discover no other reason why the US would be singled out and attacked without provocation on such a rediculous level here. It's a daily event. Are you taught to be envious from birth? Is it a class you take in school? "Woo! I got an A+ in HOW TO HATE AMERICAN's 101!"

I loved it when I was in the military. The US was always the ones doing the compromising: "Alright men. You're in their country now. They have a different value and belief system than we do, you need to respect that and play by their rules. This is their Homeland". But when we had foreigners come to th eUS, we were given this speech: "They arn't accustomed to how we do things here. In their country they do it like this, so be tolerant of that. Be understanding, as everyone has a different belief system. Try not to say/do blah blah blah, as it's insulting in their culture."

Seems you are missing the point badly.

Not accurate. the 1/4 time was simply an indicator of a general hp level. An example of a low hp car, if you will. The part about driving a tiny car around a parking lot was used because that's the only track (autocrossing) I know of where those little things have even a remote chance of being competative. It's a brilliant idea, let's limit the space and turn radius so that car's have to turn sharply and can't go over 35mph. That should handicap everyone else enough to let us win.

 

[RacyBacy]

You're not the only one I've been addressing.

Don’t quote me and comment on drag racing then. That makes sense doesn’t it?

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Your-a-peon-s always bring nationality into the discussion. "America" this and "American's" that. You can't get much worse than stereotyping an entire country.

It’s what you call delicious irony. If you look at the context it was said you might understand. It was YOU who called me retarded the first time (calling someone retarded can often be offensive), can I not return the adjective to you and twist it a little? Obviously not since you’re super sensitive. The reason I said it sounded American is because I’ve only ever heard people from the U.S.A use that phrase. We tend not to use it here.

I can't recall the last time I saw an Ameican member of this site putting down another country on a national level. Yet we have to listen to your jealous whining on a daily basis. I say jealous, for I can discover no other reason why the US would be singled out and attacked without provocation on such a rediculous level here. It's a daily event. Are you taught to be envious from birth? Is it a class you take in school? "Woo! I got an A+ in HOW TO HATE AMERICAN's 101!"

Talk about this being escalated - I’ve singled out and attacked America? Yeah ok. It’s your reaction that’s ridiculous. Go and whine somewhere else. It seems you and neon_duke have (BIG) chips on your shoulders since neon thinks we are trying to make Americans look stupid and you think we hate Americans. Get over it and stop taking criticism to your country and take it yourself.

TheCracker hit the nail in the head a while back:

Some people take comments too seriously around here!

 

[Duke]

Talk about this being escalated - I’ve singled out and attacked America? Yeah ok. It’s your reaction that’s ridiculous. Go and whine somewhere else. It seems you and neon_duke have (BIG) chips on your shoulders since neon thinks we are trying to make Americans look stupid and you think we hate Americans. Get over it and stop taking criticism to your country and take it yourself.

Maybe he also hit the nail on the head with this piece of highly intelligent discourse?

You just can't expect Americans to enjoy a small perfectly balanced package when they generally all have the 'bigger is better' attitude. There is such a thing as 'too much power' - but i guess when all your roads are wide and flat and all your corners are 90degrees then the only fun you can have is wheelspinning and seing-how-fast-you-can-go-in-a-straight-line

But of course, we're Americans, so it must be us that has the chip on our shoulder, not anyone else. Small wonder, when we're subjected to this crap on a daily basis, for no other reason than that we happen to be American. It rubs pretty goddam thin after a while, I can tell you.

You can dress any random bit of ignorance up and aim it at Americans, and it's perfectly fine and not questioned, so long as it makes us look bad. I'm bloody sick of it and of people who think attitude equals intelligence.