The biggest problem with GT5 that nobody talks about.

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

It's threads like this that maybe explain just how BAD many 'gaming' aspects of this game is. You spend 100% of your attention modeling stuff no-one even sees except in photo mode, or trying to have as accurate a model of day/night transitions, and you end up forgetting to put 75% of the A-Spec content from the previous game in it.

Limited resources mean prioritization. I'd rather have the GAME be great, and a bit less scenery detail, than ultimate realism in a game so flawed, who wants to race it?

Better AI, for instance. Who wants a 3D tree over THAT? I know I don't!

Yeah, it's the constant need to cater to the graphic obsessed casuals that's killing these games. I really wish someone would come up with a game called Photopaintsport. That way, people making racing titles could get back to you know, focusing on racing. And all the picture taking anime painting gamers can go play that and leave us racers alone. Worst thing to ever happen to the genre was the day someone thought photomode was a good idea to put in a racing game.

 

[premhz]

I think PAZ is just splitting hairs really. Tire temp,ambient temp and brake temp/fade are somthing PD should look into instead of eye candy for the enviroment.
Sure the enviroments can be a little stale but it is a racing game. We are there to race not check out who has moved in the crowd between laps 2 and 5,check out the ducks flying in formation heading south etc etc. These would all be nice to create a better atmosphere but we are there to race and are usually going too fast to notice and appreciate small details like those mentioned.

 

[GT5Junkie]

Tsukuba Academy TT/ Fairlady.
Challenging? Yes, however anything but realistic.

Which tracks have you had your truck on? What does it pull on the skidpad? Fairladys don't really handle that well IRL tbh.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I think its a classic example of trying to add too many things in an attempt to satisfy everyone, consequently not doing any of them very well and satisfying hardly anyone.

Even so, the game to me wreaks of Sony's likely interference with Kaz's priorities and schedule. JMO, based on comparing his previous games to GT5.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Which tracks have you had your truck on? What does it pull on the skidpad? Fairladys don't really handle that well IRL tbh.

None. Don't know.
Its based on my experience of various cornering speeds, driving it daily for 6 yrs and at times pushing it to the limits of its cabability.

"Fairladys don't really handle that well IRL tbh"
I'd say thats a huge understatement if it actually handles that way.
I'm sorry to disagree with you, but unless those tires came off a bicycle I cannot believe the car would handle that poorly.

OOps! Sorry for the double post.

 

[Murdaugh]

I think there is a big with the walls. If you get off track, the walls seems to become extreme magnets and you're most likely going to end up hitting the wall and sticking there until the magnetism wears off.

Also, the road often has a reverse polarization effect during extreme braking. Your car will spin out and will eventually stop, but you will be facing oncoming traffic

 

[CarreraGT]

Honestly I think everything in the originial post would be great, and I hope they head in that direction when the PS4 is released, but there are much bigger issues in GT5.

It's been said about the detail of the premium models, GT anywhere and a bunch of other features,they are all pointless until they get the basics right.

AI
Sound effects
Event structure/racing rules
Upgrades/tuning
etc.

These are the core elements of any racing game and PD seem to have not given them the weight they deserve in GT5. I'm all for more detail and "life" so to speak, but I really hope they work on these things before anything else.

I would be happy if GT6 was simply GT5 with no standard models, a few more tracks and a descent AI system (and obviously none of the bugs from GT5). Moving spectators, birds and bugs etc. are just icing on the cake

 

[RMT.]

I like the dirigible on Trial Mountain. If you are good, you can follow it's progression across the sky as you come to the start point of the track.

 

[nyyellowtaxi]

The biggest problem with GT5 that nobody talks about, is people complain way too much.

Breaks not yellow hot, screens take 5 seconds to load, don't like some of the BMG, OCD doesn't have what I want, no tire pressure. Now BBQ grill has no smoke and no bird on the sky. I would like someone to point out 1 game with constant free update, bug fixes, and events.

You all realize F1 2010 is still unplayable and there's no plan for any patch, right?

 

[calan_svc]

The biggest problem with GT5 that nobody talks about, is people complain way too much.

Breaks not yellow hot, screens take 5 seconds to load, don't like some of the BMG, OCD doesn't have what I want, no tire pressure. Now BBQ grill has no smoke and no bird on the sky. I would like someone to point out 1 game with constant free update, bug fixes, and events.

You all realize F1 2010 is still unplayable and there's no plan for any patch, right?

What is "BMG" and "OCD"? And what does F1 2010's problems have to do with GT5's issues?

 

[CarreraGT]

What is "BMG" and "OCD"? And what does F1 2010's problems have to do with GT5's issues?

Was going to ask the same question. F1 2010 is unplayable? What game have I been playing then?

 

[advan031]

Go out and drive a real car if u want all that crap...lmao

 

[zqxwjv]

I think this post and some of the replies underscore the disparity between marketing hype and reality. The whole "emotion engine" thing and other PS3 marketing created a lot of expectations initially and now disappointment.

 

[nyyellowtaxi]

What is "BMG" and "OCD"? And what does F1 2010's problems have to do with GT5's issues?

Typo. BGM (background music). OCD (Online Car Dealer).

F1 2010 problems has nothing to do with GT5. I am just saying the amount of support PD gave to GT5, and mind you for free, is much better than anyone else could. Nothing is perfect, just enjoy the damn game.

 

[MowTin]

GT5 implemented new smoke effects. They are very nice. If you kick up smoke it has a weight that has been missing for years in the series. It even blows in the wind. And this has lead me to what I think to be one of the biggest visual and immersive flaws in GT5. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Besides the smoke and a few bits of grass, nothing else in the game's environments reacts and acts naturally. And besides the time of day the environmental effects are more on/off. All grass moves. It is not a flat texture. Trees sway in the wind and are more than just two pieces of cardboard stuck together. Snow whips up from the ground and builds up as time passes. Rain is more than a blotch on the windshield and pools where there are changes of surface. Also snow and rain are simply filters put over a screen with added volumetric effects. This may seem like a trivial matter but it is not.

Your thread title is about GT5 defects but I didn't realize GT5 had so many cool effects. I never noticed the smoke blowing in the wind or the trees moving or the bbq or the water pooling. lol.

I'm a little more impressed with GT5 now. I guess you really pay attention to track details. But I don't think most people sit and stare at swaying trees. Most people focus on the cars and track in front of them.

 

[diptob79]

about the bugs on your winshield.

hmm.. combine it with a little mist rain.. and there you go..
got to pull over and clean it yourself

 

[tinram]

Amazing.
The game has practically no A-spec content, almost none of the best Tracks, no car setup saves, no wheels for 80% of the cars, that also look inferior, the worst progession system I've ever seen in a game, and he's pointing out the lack of naturalization of trees, birds, grass and spectators.

Buddy, thats the least of this games problems.

For those of you of agree with this, i hope you guys sold the game by now. "Practically no A-Spec", "80 percent looks inferior", "Worst Progression", geez i would not play this game if i felt this way.

Thankfully i don't so i am having fun with it. More than 40 A-spec events, seasonal events, 200 hundred awesome cars, 1000 cars available for collection, online play, etc. Bob making me money for my car collection, i almost got all my rally cars.

Fanboy you say? because i am enjoying the game? really?

Then i say suckers! For still having a game that you do not enjoy

 

[CarreraGT]

Yeah, it's the constant need to cater to the graphic obsessed casuals that's killing these games. I really wish someone would come up with a game called Photopaintsport. That way, people making racing titles could get back to you know, focusing on racing. And all the picture taking anime painting gamers can go play that and leave us racers alone. Worst thing to ever happen to the genre was the day someone thought photomode was a good idea to put in a racing game.

While I agree with this, I do like photo mode. I do, however, think they went overboard with some of the premium car models, and time spent modelling the tiny "Made in Germany" sign on the headlight lense of the Ferrari F40 that you can only see at maximum zoom in photo mode could have gone towards refining the AI system for example.

I think Kaz got in a bit too deep and couldn't stop once he started, all the while forgetting that he was supposed to be making a racing game rather than satisfying his own obsession for detail

 

[tribolik]

If you are on this site there is a 99% you think GT5 is great, and it is. However, it is not extraordinary. It has flaws. What a shock. Most of these are actually not all that critical, they are just spotted everywhere. Some have been fixed with a couple megabytes of patches. The most obvious are the blocky shadows and smoke aliasing. It’s pretty hard not to notice sitting next what is a stunning game. But in the end they do not ruin the experience.

While observing the game yesterday I found a flaw that I do not think anyone has mentioned or at least in the detail I am about to. Also, I am in no way saying that I expected any of what I am about to say to be in GT5. That would be crazy.

GT5 implemented new smoke effects. They are very nice. If you kick up smoke it has a weight that has been missing for years in the series. It even blows in the wind. And this has lead me to what I think to be one of the biggest visual and immersive flaws in GT5.

Besides the smoke and a few bits of grass, nothing else in the game's environments reacts and acts naturally. And besides the time of day the environmental effects are more on/off. All grass moves. It is not a flat texture. Trees sway in the wind and are more than just two pieces of cardboard stuck together. Snow whips up from the ground and builds up as time passes. Rain is more than a blotch on the windshield and pools where there are changes of surface. Also snow and rain are simply filters put over a screen with added volumetric effects. This may seem like a trivial matter but it is not.

The cars in GT5 are near flawless. But the environments and their lack of effects do not hold up. I feel like the world I am in is static, lifeless. There is no life. There are no birds flying across the sky. No sun glare off of the car in front of me. The 24hr layout of The Ring is the most convincing track because it has life to it. I can't believe I am saying this but it is the smoke from people grilling outside their tents. Like Kaz said, you can almost smell the BBQ. This brings me into the moment.

For the next GT, PD need to think real hard what they want to accomplish. They have a tremendous opportunity to work with the next hardware and create something that is truly extraordinary. Imagine a world where the crowd changed as the race when on. People moved about in the off track area. The clouds, sun, shadows all changed. Bugs hit your windshield and your car got dirty over the course of the race. Imagine racing up Spa and suddenly a plume of fog engulfed the track. Or experiencing a white out at Chamonix. Small waves hitting the port at Monaco. I miss things like the moving crowd on the Gran Canyon track in GT4. Things like this make me feel like I am experiencing something real.

This is what takes out of the world you are in and fools your mind into thinking what you are doing is real. GT5 offers moments of this. In fact it does it better than almost any other game. NFS Shift was not bad, but overdone. It is the essence of what GT is and it is what the next game needs to improve.


If you read all that give yourself a pat on the back.

To all those who are pointing out that the PS3 can only handle so much and has a ancient GPU... really I did not know that tell me more . I am not saying I expected PD to do all this. I did not say I was disappointed in GT5 because it does not have X, Y and Z. I am simply pointing out a flaw that I believe is very valid. If you read the entire post you would understand that this is more a statement of what PD should work on for the next game if it is on new hardware.

So to you the biggest problem with GT5 is that it doesnt recreate life as it is?????
I would be glad if they fixed the AI, improved some of the standard cars res and added more A-spec events - but what you speak of isnt the biggest problem of the game -its just impossible to recreate with this generation of consoles and wont happen with the next one as well.

What will happen (and what we need) is better AI - more cars on track - all premium - better physics and force feedback - and few other stuff that might be tyed to cars, racing and online gaming - but you wont see the flowers blooming or the wind blowing the leaves away in any racing game in the next few years - and it really doesnt matter it adds very little to the racing experience if you ask me.

And after reading it all and bothering to write back I didnt give myself a pat on the back - I decided to slap myself on the face

 

[machschnel]

screens take 5 seconds to load

If anything on Gran Tursimo 5 took 5 seconds it would be a cause for celebration.

10 seconds to load Parts Shop
Click on Turbo
Would you like to purchase Turbo
Would you like to install Turbo
Turbo is now installed
10 seconds to load GT Life screen

 

[paskowitz]

Wow at the negative comments. People seem to feel the need to express their disagreements vehemently. The title of the thread is the biggest problem that has NOT been discussed. I brought this up because no one else has and to me it is important.

We all know whats wrong with GT5. AI, sounds, standard cars etc. Since this is common knowledge it does not need to be repeated (yet countless posts and threads flood the forums). Given this why offer this as your rebuttal?

I think people are missing the point of GT. When the game came out it was the most realistic driving game on the market. There was nothing else like it at the time. And for the first time people could barely grasp the dream that something they were playing was close to real life. So yes GT is a game, but it is also a simulator and that simulation is everything involved with the act of driving and there are three fundamental parts to driving, the car, the track and driver.

The whole point of my thread is to simply state that I think the track, could use some improvements.

 

[tribolik]

You have your opinion and other people have theirs it doesnt mean that you wrong or they are right or vice versa. but in a racing game who cares if the grass moves...

 

[paskowitz]

You have your opinion and other people have theirs it doesnt mean that you wrong or they are right or vice versa. but in a racing game who cares if the grass moves...

Thats not really the point. The point is that the world (tracks) should to be more immersive. Real grass is simply a small speck on the map in order to make that a reality.

 

[tribolik]

Here is what I did, I bought a fan placed it in front of me - bought a heater placed behind - put on a helmet and it felt really immersive to me

 

[CarolinaBlue704]

Thats not really the point. The point is that the world (tracks) should to be more immersive. Real grass is simply a small speck on the map in order to make that a reality.

It's called hardware limitations. The PS3 can't handle the premium car models in GT5 and have all the environmental effects that your asking for. Something has to give, it's really that simple.

 

[CarreraGT]

Wow at the negative comments. People seem to feel the need to express their disagreements vehemently. The title of the thread is the biggest problem that has NOT been discussed. I brought this up because no one else has and to me it is important.

We all know whats wrong with GT5. AI, sounds, standard cars etc. Since this is common knowledge it does not need to be repeated (yet countless posts and threads flood the forums). Given this why offer this as your rebuttal?

I think people are missing the point of GT. When the game came out it was the most realistic driving game on the market. There was nothing else like it at the time. And for the first time people could barely grasp the dream that something they were playing was close to real life. So yes GT is a game, but it is also a simulator and that simulation is everything involved with the act of driving and there are three fundamental parts to driving, the car, the track and driver.

The whole point of my thread is to simply state that I think the track, could use some improvements.

And people are responding to your thread, what of it? If you don't want people's opinions don't start a thread. People have mentioned issues which they believe to be more important, in direct relation to your opening post.

There's nothing wrong with your suggestion, but it does fuel debate as to which areas of GT5 need the most attention. And remember that the physics model (which includes AI) is what ties the car, the track and the driver together. So I would say that the AI system is of a higher priority than birds or bug splatters.

Just my opinion

 

[Rich S]

I can't believe I am saying this but it is the smoke from people grilling outside their tents. Like Kaz said, you can almost smell the BBQ. This brings me into the moment

For the next GT, PD need to think real hard what they want to accomplish. They have a tremendous opportunity to work with the next hardware and create something that is truly extraordinary. Imagine a world where the crowd changed as the race when on. People moved about in the off track area. The clouds, sun, shadows all changed. Bugs hit your windshield and your car got dirty over the course of the race. Imagine racing up Spa and suddenly a plume of fog engulfed the track.

Yeah the BQs always make me hungary when I'm driving the Type V. I agree that some graphics elements of the game are imperfect, but PD really needs to focus on making more road rather than perfecting the same old tracks that have gotten boring. The Nurburgring is great because its long and has so many variations. It feels like your going somewhere. People like that feeling because it breaks the boredom.

One way to get rid of the monotony would be letting us go out and do long point to point races, like the tuscany challenge but much longer. You should be able to hit the Autobahn, or driver across an entire country via Rally racing.

I have Asperger's syndrome. One of the symtoms of this is extreme routine and enjoyment of familiarity. But even I am SICK AND TIRED of racing the same old tracks over and over. I cant see how people are satisfied with the same circuit style racing in this game each and every edition. If you look at a game like F1 2010, it has alot more variation than GT5 does, and its a franchise game!!! I feel more "entertained" playing that game in career mode. Most agree that game not only has more pavement, it has better graphics.

PD mislead everyone by advertising "75 variations of circuits" but its just a different way to drive the same track. "Rome reverse rain" is not a new track, its the same track.

When Codemasters advertised their game, they advertised all the Formula 1 tracks and the weather features. They dont consider "Monaco dry, sunny" and "Monaco rain, cloudy" to be 2 diff tracks. PD
s advertising style REEKS of desperation by using tricky wording to mislead consumers.

 

[CarreraGT]

^ Exactly. How, after 5 years of development, am I already bored with GT5? I still do time trials at the Nurburgring and the occasional online race but the rest of the game is boring already. The same dull tracks, the same moronic AI. I am only a A-spec level 22 and I am not even motivated to go any further.

With that kind of budget PD shouldn't need to rely on word trickery to promote GT5. It should be bursting with content

 

[calan_svc]

...

PD mislead everyone by advertising "75 variations of circuits" but its just a different way to drive the same track. "Rome reverse rain" is not a new track, its the same track.

...

Stop whining. Do you expect a "driving simulator" to have lots of places to drive or something?

 

[ucwepn]

Geez some people want the world for $59 lol I am grateful for what we have thankyou PD