The Bill Cosby Situation

[Liquid]

BBC Cosby has spoken for the first time on fresh allegations on sex assault charges. He said he only expects "the black media" to remain neutral, which I think is putting his foot very much in his mouth.

This is the first time he's spoken publicly on the issue since it broke out again, saying he'd been advised to not say anything. It doesn't help that this comes amidst a PR disaster revolving around "Make A Cosby Meme" as started by his own media team. (Halfway down on his KYM page)

Possibly because I'm a Limey and Cosby has never been a major star over this side of the water, but I had no idea about these charges until they came to light again. Tangentially related to that, to me, is the odd situation where Gary Glitter songs are sometimes still played in the United States despite his convictions for sex assault on children although a conviction is quite different to an allegation, of course.

 

[Dotini]

I well remember watching Bill Cosby co-starring with Robert Culp in the 1965-67 weekly secret agent TV series "I Spy". Culp and Cosby always got the villain, and they always got the beautiful women. Macho, swaggering, narcissistic and entitled, they typified the era. Fame, power and money goes to the head in a lot of actors, athletes and tycoons.

Roman Polanski, the famed movie director, got himself into a vaguely similar situation. As I see it, this sort of behavior is typical of all men everywhere at all times if condoned by the culture. Thanks to medicine, some of these men are still around, but the culture has moved on around them, leaving them oddly out of place and time.

 

[Omnis]

When 14 women each come forward with a serious rape allegation against someone with as good a reputation as Bill Cosby, you know they're not lying. People don't lie about things like this. It would be obvious if they were.

Bill Cosby was so heroic. I really can't say how disappointed I am about all of this.

 

[Keef]

As I see it, this sort of behavior is typical of all men

Mostly because women would throw themselves at the men in such a position. That is more likely than a man forcing himself into a situation. Years later these girl realize the statute of limitations for rape is decades long and since they're undoubtedly stuck in the rut of life they're trying to get a few bucks in damages off a guy who got rich and stayed rich.

It's probably true that they hooked up with Cosby back in the day but that he raped them is a dubious claim at best. But we might never know for sure because false rape claims make it through the system all the time.

 

[TDZdave]

Mostly because women would throw themselves at the men in such a position. That is more likely than a man forcing himself into a situation. Years later these girl realize the statute of limitations for rape is decades long and since they're undoubtedly stuck in the rut of life they're trying to get a few bucks in damages off a guy who got rich and stayed rich.

It's probably true that they hooked up with Cosby back in the day but that he raped them is a dubious claim at best. But we might never know for sure because false rape claims make it through the system all the time.

I couldn't agree more here, I certainly don't see 14 people truthfully, boil it down and get through all the rubbish first first, I remember TMZ showing one of them which was a full on drug addict/ jail bird, and most likely a cash grabber, sad part is, If there is any truth to any of it for one of them, they won't get all they are entitled to because of the fakers,

 

[Touring Mars]

Mostly because women would throw themselves at the men in such a position. That is more likely than a man forcing himself into a situation. Years later these girl realize the statute of limitations for rape is decades long and since they're undoubtedly stuck in the rut of life they're trying to get a few bucks in damages off a guy who got rich and stayed rich.

It's probably true that they hooked up with Cosby back in the day but that he raped them is a dubious claim at best. But we might never know for sure because false rape claims make it through the system all the time.

While that is a possible explanation/scenario, it is also important to remember that it might be completely wrong as well. The UK has recently seen a swathe of such allegations (and convictions) against celebrities from yesteryear, ranging from sexual harassment to necrophilia and rape.

While it is possible that some complaints/allegations are unfounded/false, it is pretty clear that a great number of them are not false. There are understandable reasons why nothing has happened about these alleged incidents sooner - many victims of celebrity assaults probably felt that no-one would believe them, they might have been threatened with legal action or humiliation/ridicule etc., and the lack of physical evidence might have convinced many people that there was nothing they could do about it other than to suffer in silence, which a great many people who have been victims of sexual abuse do.

Each case has to be studied on its own merits. Bill Cosby may well be innocent and he should be considered innocent until proven guilty, of course. But - just because there are some people who seek to benefit from such situations does not mean that everyone is lying or making claims against Cosby for nefarious reasons.

 

[Omnis]

Mostly because women would throw themselves at the men in such a position. That is more likely than a man forcing himself into a situation. Years later these girl realize the statute of limitations for rape is decades long and since they're undoubtedly stuck in the rut of life they're trying to get a few bucks in damages off a guy who got rich and stayed rich.

It's probably true that they hooked up with Cosby back in the day but that he raped them is a dubious claim at best. But we might never know for sure because false rape claims make it through the system all the time.

You have more than a dozen people claiming they were raped. Your scenario is flippant and unrealistic. Victims of sexual assault or would not publicly embarrass themselves if they were not being honest. It's just as likely that Cosby was a manipulative serial rapist that lured in or lead on the women that you say were "throwing themselves" at him. Most of these women would have been wide-eyed and star-struck to have the attention of someone as famous as Bill Cosby. That would have made them easy targets, not gold-digging mastermind schemers.

 

[Swagger897]

When 14 women each come forward with a serious rape allegation against someone with as good a reputation as Bill Cosby, you know they're not lying. People don't lie about things like this. It would be obvious if they were.

Bill Cosby was so heroic. I really can't say how disappointed I am about all of this.

I don't see it the same way as that...

When Tiger Woods had his issues, although not rape, any breathing woman who has ever been within a mile of him claimed he was seeing her, and a Brady Bunch was created around him. More than half of those who came out lied (from what I recall, there was at one point 20 (or more, not sure) women who claimed, and I remember only 9 actually having contact), and never had contact with Woods.. They saw one person get on after another, and I see this "rape train" the same way.

It's hard to believe, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. It also means that there is a possibility that it is the same issue that happened to Woods.
The most recent actress who has claimed she was drugged and raped (can't remember name) has me questioning the legitimacy of her story. She claims she had a (1) drink with him, and "knew" he had drugged her, took her back to a room and then claims he "raped" her. I have a hard time believing that if you know you are under the effects from a narcotic that you can determine whether or not it was for sure, and then to "recall" the events following...

Victims of sexual assault or would not publicly embarrass themselves if they were not being honest.

I don't believe that one bit at all. If someone claims whiplash at a mere bump-accident, you're in for a rough ride. Some of these women have nothing else in their careers and are stirring this up again, which isn't the first time they have done so, and are attempting to gain something from this ending.

There isn't much actual evidence to support their point of view, and there isn't much defending on Cosby's side either, which is in his best interest to keep silent and let the whole situation die out again. If it were to be true, then it is sad nothing was done about it when the allegations originally occurred, but I don't see much of a chance for anything serious happening to Cosby soon.

 

[ONevermind]

I wanted to know how many have accused him and found a list of 25 women, the majority say he drugged and raped them

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...lt_rape_drugs_feature_in_women_s_stories.html

 

[Keef]

Victims of sexual assault or would not publicly embarrass themselves if they were not being honest.

You're right, victims of sexual assault wouldn't do that. Because they're victims. But stupid people who aren't actually victims and are just jumping on the bandwagon to get a payout would do it for little more than the notoriety.

I think the likeliest scenario is that somebody is being honest but most of them are jumping on the bandwagon. The hard part is weeding them out - unfortunately our system heavily favors the female in cases like this, truth notwithstanding.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is like the Twilight Zone in here, the broad generalizations on both sides are staggering.

 

[Omnis]

You're right, victims of sexual assault wouldn't do that. Because they're victims. But stupid people who aren't actually victims and are just jumping on the bandwagon to get a payout would do it for little more than the notoriety.

Sorry, but I'm not buying that. We're talking about Bill Cosby here. You don't just jump on a bandwagon to take down a cultural icon. Prosecutors are not that stupid. These people have a case.

I don't believe that one bit at all. If someone claims whiplash at a mere bump-accident, you're in for a rough ride. Some of these women have nothing else in their careers and are stirring this up again, which isn't the first time they have done so, and are attempting to gain something from this ending.

Do you know how hard it is to be a victim of sexual assault? Could you imagine if any single victim would have come out with this against the great patriarch of black america? The victim would have drowned under the public pressure. Nobody wants that kind of attention. I'll bet they've probably been told, "He only groped you. He only fingered you. He didn't actually have sex with you." They're only coming out because of the revelation that Cosby is in fact a serial offender, and because by now they've raised their families or lived enough of their lives that the backlash at their allegations would not interfere with them so much.

 

[Crispy]

There's a big lesson to be learned from this. Victims of sexual assault NEED to come out when it happens. I understand why potentially these women wouldn't have, their time is much different than ours. It is 2014 now. Yes their is stigma and slut shaming does happen to those that come out sometimes, but the best way to fight that is to actually come out.

Furthermore there also needs to be punishment for those that commit false rape claims. People remember the Duke Lacrosse team for being rapists, not for the alleged victim lying for whatever reason.

As for Cosby? He is innocent until proven guilty. This media witch-hunt that happens with any high profile case only serves to muddy the waters. We need a trial to be able to say 100% one way or the other. My personal opinion does not matter. I do believe I heard on the news that there was someone else who came forward who is within statute of limitations. I don't know if I heard wrong though.

Even still, rape is very hard to prove a few days after the crime, let alone a few years.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Never liked the guy and this just gave me more fuel for the fire, but then again as Hannibal Buress put it the guy's a serial rapist, and really 2006 should have told us this when I first remember hearing about it and then he paid them all off (again).

 

[Swagger897]

Sorry, but I'm not buying that. We're talking about Bill Cosby here. You don't just jump on a bandwagon to take down a cultural icon. Prosecutors are not that stupid. These people have a case.

Almost the same scenario with Woods, yet what happened to all of the band-wagoners??

Do you know how hard it is to be a victim of sexual assault? Could you imagine if any single victim would have come out with this against the great patriarch of black america? The victim would have drowned under the public pressure. Nobody wants that kind of attention.

No, I really don't know how hard because it's never happened to me.
And they already have come out with this before, and if I read correctly from a link above, this would be the third time spanning from 1969 to now that these allegations have come up from some of the same women paid off an undisclosed amount..
No one drowned, in fact, Cosby drowned them (the select 6 or however many there were) by paying them to stop harassing him..
Plenty of people want attention. Jesus, a TV reality-documentary about a family who became famous world wide over a sex-tape is the number one watched show for the channel, just for the sake of attention for the family... Come on, people don't want attention? Pathetic.

I'll bet they've probably been told,... He didn't actually have sex with you."

Believe it or not (unless you read already what each of them claim happened between themselves and Cosby) some never did have sex, were drugged, or sexually abused...

They're only coming out because of the revelation that Cosby is in fact a serial offender, and because by now they've raised their families or lived enough of their lives that the backlash at their allegations would not interfere with them so much.

Jesus... This is the third time that a massive wave to do something against Cosby has happened.. Maybe even fourth if you look at in a way, but none the less, no one is a repeat offender here. Cosby has never been formally charged, as they all whimper out when they take it to court, or Cosby pays them off.

If they were smart enough, or if it actually happened at all for that matter, they would have done something about it the next day. Not dream about it for years and then to realize what happened... Too late, the sue boat left the day after it happened to them. If these were all true but it is too late to convict Cosby of anything, then that is truly sad. But I don't see it that way seeing how everything in the past hasn't worked, so what makes them think it will now?

Furthermore there also needs to be punishment for those that commit false rape claims. People remember the Duke Lacrosse team for being rapists, not for the alleged victim lying for whatever reason.

Yep... with everything that has happened to Cosby lately with his professorship being denounced, career trashed, he ought to be repaid heavily, because it's not just affecting himself, but his entire family.

We need a trial to be able to say 100% one way or the other. My personal opinion does not matter.

Some of these accusers have already (from what I read) had Cosby in some sort of litigation, and then begs the question of double jeopardy... Does the defendant have to go through the entire court process from accusation to verdict, or is it just accused/charged/what...?

 

[DK]

If they were smart enough, or if it actually happened at all for that matter, they would have done something about it the next day. Not dream about it for years and then to realize what happened... Too late, the sue boat left the day after it happened to them. If these were all true but it is too late to convict Cosby of anything, then that is truly sad. But I don't see it that way seeing how everything in the past hasn't worked, so what makes them think it will now?

Perhaps they were scared to take him on? When the clerical abuse scandal broke here in Ireland, conservative Catholics tried to deflect the charges against the RCC by claiming that if the victims' claims of abuse were genuine, they would have come to light long ago. The same defences were trotted out when the truth about Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris came out.

The vast majority of abuse cases carried out by Irish Catholic clerics was inflicted prior to the 1980s, when politicians were falling over each other to kiss their local bishop's ass. Jimmy Saville was very friendly with Margaret Thatcher and her government, and I can imagine Rolf Harris had friends in high places too.

 

[Touring Mars]

If they were smart enough, or if it actually happened at all for that matter, they would have done something about it the next day. Not dream about it for years and then to realize what happened... Too late, the sue boat left the day after it happened to them. If these were all true but it is too late to convict Cosby of anything, then that is truly sad. But I don't see it that way seeing how everything in the past hasn't worked, so what makes them think it will now?

Excellent question, and a really key one in this type of situation. We've seen several high profile cases here in the UK recently, namely Jimmy Savile. Savile died several years ago, and allegations of rape and molestation against him only surfaced after he died. So what have these people (Savile's victims) got to gain? While many victims are suing Savile's estate (and the BBC), the answer is not as straightforward as simply suggesting that they want cash. It is also about dignity, confidence, closure, recognition that they have been a victim of abuse, and perhaps above all, support and understanding. Many abuse victims have had their lives destroyed by that abuse, and their suffering is compounded/extended by the sad reality that many perpetrators are never brought to justice. Indeed, Savile died a beloved cultural icon who was knighted by the Queen for his charity work.

The point is, I would not dismiss the effects of rape, sexual abuse, child molestation so lightly, and it is simply not the case that abuse victims can only be compensated via a law suit or by seeing their abuser jailed/punished - it is equally important that they feel able to address what has happened to them and to rebuild their lives. As such, knowing that they are not the only victim is of paramount importance. It might seem obvious now, but don't forget that it would have been far more difficult in the past to discover whether or not there was anyone else who had the same experience with the same perpetrator as it is today. Ironically, this means that it is also alot easier for people to come forward and make false claims, making real victims even more apprehensive about how they might be perceived. But knowing that there are others out there can, and clearly has, emboldened many victims to finally come forward and describe what has happened to them. In the case of Jimmy Savile, the testimony of many of his victims is not only verifiable, but also painted a consistent picture/modus operandi of a serial abuser. What have Savile's victims gained from coming forward? You would have to ask them - but their plight is an instructive one, and I wouldn't underestimate the courage required to come forward, even when their abuser is dead.

Also, as @DK suggests, in many/most cases, the victim may be too frightened/ashamed/intimidated to have said anything, believing (perhaps not incorrectly) that they would face a torrent of accusations and judgements, and perhaps understandably prefer to simply try and forget about it rather than make their experiences public. Facing that alone - perhaps without even the knowledge (and hence support) of their own family, must be daunting - perhaps enough so to ensure that many victims never feel able to talk about their abuse. Knowing that there are others probably makes a significant difference to many people.

 

[Liquid]

Cosby's wife, not unsurprisingly, comes to her husband's defence.

She suggested the media's portrayal of Cosby was a "portrait" of a man she "didn't know".

No reference to Shawn Upshaw, the woman to whom Cosby paid $100,000 over the course of 20 years to stop her leaking details of their affair.

 

[Tornado]

Somewhat unrelated to Cosby, but I find it hilarious that Roman Polanski has decided that now is best the time to once again try and get his record expunged from that girl he most definitely did drug and rape and fled the country over.

 

[Liquid]

Cosby won't face charges in LA over an alleged 1974 offence; the statute of limitations has expired.

This, however, is odd:

The comedian's lawyers have denied most of the allegations while dismissing others as either being discredited or decades old.

"Oh, that was ages ago" isn't quite the same as "That's not true".

 

[Joel]

I can't believe these women wouldn't have come forward decades ago when Cosby was a beloved mega star with deep pockets who could have ruined any chance of them having a career in show business!

I mean for 🤬's sake guys, in 2014 people are still unironically calling these women gold digging whores and saying they're just trying to get some quick money out of this. In 2014 people come out with these allegations and the response is "well they probably wanted some of that" and that they're just hopping on the bandwagon. How the hell do you think people would have believed them 30 or 40 years ago?

 

[DK]

I'd guess that c.30-40 years ago the police may have had less-than-enlightened views on sexual crimes, too. A few years ago "Slutwalks" arose after a police officer from either the USA or Canada blamed rape on the way women dressed - imagine how widespread his views were when Cosby's alleged crimes occurred?

 

[Liquid]

If you talk to people who use the words banter, broseph, broheim or any variation thereof you might still find those sort of views today.

 

[Rich S]

I'd guess that c.30-40 years ago the police may have had less-than-enlightened views on sexual crimes, too. A few years ago "Slutwalks" arose after a police officer from either the USA or Canada blamed rape on the way women dressed - imagine how widespread his views were when Cosby's alleged crimes occurred?

Possibly, I was not alive then I do not know. Few or none in my life were alive and well aware of that situation at that point in time.

I take a dim view of prosecuting "predators" many contribute far more to society than the alleged victims I know that goes against everything modern culture teaches.

 

[Touring Mars]

I take a dim view of prosecuting "predators" many contribute far more to society than the alleged victims I know that goes against everything modern culture teaches.

Can you clarify what you mean by that...? It sounds like you are saying that those who contribute more to society (like Jimmy Savile) deserve to be treated more leniently. I hope that is not what you are saying.

 

[Tornado]

If they were smart enough, or if it actually happened at all for that matter, they would have done something about it the next day. Not dream about it for years and then to realize what happened...

Yes. If the women are being met with immediate and harsh skepticism and slut shaming after Cosby has been out of the public eye for nearly 20 years (and in some communities reduced to a mocked caricature) I'm sure Reagan-era America would have heard their plight fairly if they took the stage right after Cosby finished filming Himself.

 

[Swagger897]

Yes. If the women are being met with immediate and harsh skepticism and slut shaming after Cosby has been out of the public eye for nearly 20 years (and in some communities reduced to a mocked caricature) I'm sure Reagan-era America would have heard their plight fairly if they took the stage right after Cosby finished filming Himself.

Reagan was potus from 81-89... Last I checked there was only one claim against Cosby in the 80's, which was 82.
From my memory, it was 1965, 1967, 1969, 1970-74, 1990-97, 2000, 2001, 2004-6 and 2008 that there were claims, sooo not sure what "Reagan-era America" has anything to do with that..

It's also quite sad to see how many people are defending these women for coming out now, again, and not saying much as why not back then? Does it affect me that these women didn't say anything then when they were most likely to get some resolution to it? Keeping it a secret did none of them any good, and probably wont for the future..

I haven't heard much progress of the two who are suing Cosby, and probably at this stage wont, but that could change. Why aren't all 26 doing something about it, rather than just find any news/media/gossip group to campaign their "cry for help"...

It is also about dignity, confidence, closure, recognition that they have been a victim of abuse, and perhaps above all, support and understanding.

Same for Cosby, as he is still innocent until proven guilty, and this has seriously trashed his career and reputation, much more than on any previous case. Cosby has everything to go against them just like Taco Bell did when they were sued...

The point is, I would not dismiss the effects of rape, sexual abuse, child molestation so lightly, and it is simply not the case that abuse victims can only be compensated via a law suit or by seeing their abuser jailed/punished - it is equally important that they feel able to address what has happened to them and to rebuild their lives.

On the presumption that these charges/claims are true, and can be proven... Otherwise there are probably millions out there who are believing these women who cry wolf, until the wolf has actually been found..

But knowing that there are others out there can, and clearly has, emboldened many victims to finally come forward and describe what has happened to them.

And so far only two cases of whatever they claimed have been brought forward against Cosby. What about the other 24? Where are those women who do nothing but tarnish his reputation. If that's all they want then so far it's working, but Cosby has every right, if, they are lying to come back and seek every penny from them..

Also, as @DK suggests, in many/most cases, the victim may be too frightened/ashamed/intimidated to have said anything, believing (perhaps not incorrectly) that they would face a torrent of accusations and judgements, and perhaps understandably prefer to simply try and forget about it rather than make their experiences public. Facing that alone - perhaps without even the knowledge (and hence support) of their own family, must be daunting - perhaps enough so to ensure that many victims never feel able to talk about their abuse. Knowing that there are others probably makes a significant difference to many people.

If that's the story you want to believe among others, go ahead. I'm not going to say that they are too afraid because only they can say that themselves. Do I believe they were afraid. No, primarily because I believe (for the majority of the claims against Cosby) that this is a cry for more media and for them to be talked about. Whether they like people talking about them, good or bad, I could care less..

 

[Liquid]

@Swagger897 Completely different actions and unrelated to the current situation as it stands, but Cosby has already testified to having at least one extramartial affair and paying $100,000 over 20 years to keep it quiet.

Character testimony takes a knocking straight away once something like that crops up. He isn't, or shouldn't have been, portrayed as "America's Dad" and clean as a whistle when this has been known since 1997.

 

[Swagger897]

@Swagger897 Completely different actions and unrelated to the current situation as it stands, but Cosby has already testified to having at least one extramartial affair and paying $100,000 over 20 years to keep it quiet.

Character testimony takes a knocking straight away once something like that crops up. He isn't, or shouldn't have been, portrayed as "America's Dad" and clean as a whistle when this has been known since 1997.

Depends on what you read to say "keep quiet". I read the same case of the "Jane Does" which he paid to legally make them stop bringing up accusations against him, which they would never successfully win in court because some had already done so and failed to follow through.

Unless you view that as, they say he raped them, then gave them a pile of cash to shut up, and see Cosby as the antagonist, then believe that.

And those 300 other kids he paid tuition for, I've never heard of that. Are those 300 kids from Rwanda or 300 kids that Cosby knocked their moms up?
Also interesting is the highway incident at the end, as if CNN throws that in there to promote the group scraping for cash from Cosby. Sad, but it's the media and they try to start as much as they can to cover it..

 

[Tornado]

Reagan was potus from 81-89... Last I checked there was only one claim against Cosby in the 80's, which was 82.
From my memory, it was 1965, 1967, 1969, 1970-74, 1990-97, 2000, 2001, 2004-6 and 2008 that there were claims, sooo not sure what "Reagan-era America" has anything to do with that..
.

That's just because you completely missed the point. You keep banging on about how the people should have taken Cosby to court over the issue immediately, seemingly ignoring that he had a several decade run as one of the most powerful, influential and outright loved figures in his career; even though that is charged as being why he was able to allegedly do what he did. Since we already have your posts as a sterling example of what women with rape claims should fear from people who dismiss out of hand the allegations against a famous person, the obvious logical conclusion is to wonder how they would have been treated in a time where Cosby was at his peak (like the late 1980s, ie. Reagan era America) compared to how they are being treated now when Cosby generally only exists in popular culture as a stock parody.

It's also quite sad how many people are defending these women for coming out now, again, and not saying much as why not back then?

Several people actually have said this, both in relation to Cosby and in relation to other people. The issue is that you keep ignoring when it is pointed out to you.

Does it affect me that these women didn't say anything then when they were most likely to get some resolution to it?

If the allegations are true, the time when they are most likely to get resolution for it is now. I'm not understanding your failure to grasp that.

Same for Cosby, as he is still innocent until proven guilty

Let's not pretend that's what your posts have been about.