The Bugatti EB 18/4 Veyron

[Beamer2]

Id like to dedicate this thread to the discussion of the bugatti veyron, my favorite car, and i think one of the best supercars out there. so discuss all aspects of this car here.
Thank you,
Beamer 2 - Cameron

 

[The359]

The EB16/4 is their "production" car. The 18/4 was one of the earlier concepts. They have different motors.

 

[McLaren]

Which Veyron was supposed to blow away the Koenigsegg? The one with like 1001HP?

 

[240Z]

What is so good about it? Besides having ~1000 hp, it is really ugly in my opinion, and so unstable at high speed that production cars (if it is ever built) will be limited to 200 mph, 52 mph short of the claimed figure.

 

[Ev0]

Anyone see the Top Gear recently where Jeremy wears the Veyron watch worth 140,000 pounds? What a waste of money!

And I don't see this car being made for some reason. It's just a gut feeling I have.

 

[MistaX]

What is so good about it? Besides having ~1000 hp, it is really ugly in my opinion, and so unstable at high speed that production cars (if it is ever built) will be limited to 200 mph, 52 mph short of the claimed figure.

👍
It's ugly, never going to be made, and maybe THE MOST impractical car I've ever heard of.

Mclaren F1 is better. It had ample storage compartments, could seat one more person, and was completely drivable on the street. (So said Top Gear, and I believe them. They claimed it "Best car ever built")

 

[The359]

The evolution of Bugatti from the days of it's Italian ownership and producing the EB110 up until the creation of the EB16/4 Veyron have been an odd one.

In the mid-90s Bugatti went under after producing about 50 EB110s. Shortly before it's demise, the company had made a concept car, the EB112 in 1993. The car was meant to be a preview of the possibility of bringing Bugatti back not only as a sportscar marque, but as a superluxury manufacturer as well. The EB112 featured a 455hp V12 powering all four wheels. The car was a 4-door with a long hatchback-like rear, a very futuristic take on the likes of Rolls-Royce or Bentley.

It should also be noted that at the time, Ford also was looking at launching their superluxury manufacturer from their recently gained asset Aston Martin, with the Lagonda Vignale concept. The Vignale was eeriely similar to the EB112.

Soon after Bugatti is bankrupt and eventually bought by VAG. VAG picks up where the company had left off, and in 1998 develops the EB118 concept. VAG more then likely worried that Ford might actually pull off resurrecting the Lagonda brand, so VAG developed a car very similar to the EB112, except this time as a 2-door superluxury GT (similar to the Bentley Continental GT). The EB118 was also the first time VAG used a W-Configuation engine with their 6.2L W18 pushing 550hp. In 1999 VAG followed with the EB218 to coincide with the EB118. This car brought the EB112's design up to date, giving the EB118 a 4-door superluxury sedan again sporting the 550hp 6.2L W18

Then with VAG obviously intending to bring the Bugatti brand a full line up, later that year they brought the EB18/3 Chiron concept with that usual 6.2L W18 with 550hp. This time a true supercar with mid-engine mounting, the EB18/3 mixed the styling of the old EB110 with the styling of the modern EB118/EB218.

With the great reviews that Bugatti and VAG received, VAG decided that Bugatti might just be better as a supercar maker rather then a luxury maker (especially with their aquisition of Bentley). Thus designs like the EB118 and EB218 have become the new Continental and Continental GT (really, the design elements of both cars are quite evident on the EB118/EB218). VAG would thus evolve the EB18/3 into the EB18/4 Veyron. A new more aerodynamic and realistic body was put around the usual 550hp 6.2L W18. With the response to the EB18/4, VAG decided to bring the car to production.

However they decided to unveil one more concept. The EB18/4's body was tweaked to be even faster and more stable then before, but was this time wrapped around a newer, more powerful engine, the 8.0L W16 which, with the addition of four turbochargers, pushed 1001hp with a proclaimed top speed of 250mph, and thus was born the Bugatti EB16/4 Veyron.

Since the introduction of the EB16/4 concept however, the testing of the production version has forced VAG to detune the engine to 920hp as well as add aerodanmic implements to help keep the car stable at 200+mph.

Bugatti claims the first EB16/4 Veyrons will be delivered in late 2005.

 

[35mm]

Id like to dedicate this thread to the discussion of the bugatti veyron, my favorite car, and i think one of the best supercars out there.

Where the hell did you read about this car to have that kind of opinion about it?

That car has became the subject of mockery in the automotive industry.

 

[LoudMusic]

I think it is actually quite attractive. I hope they can remodel it into a more controlable vehicle. A nice six-banger with a supercharger would be good, putting out 350hp. Make the body all a bit smaller and more refined. I think it would be cool.

 

[pimp racer]

Looks like VW Bug but not as high and sits low and is wider.

 

[LoudMusic]

Looks like VW Bug but not as high and sits low and is wider.

So it looks nothing like a bug? Or by your definition a Ford GT also looks like a bug.

 

[McLaren]

I agree with LoudMusic. I'll take one just to say I own it. I find it more attracting than an Excalibur which is god awful ugly

Actually any car resembling the Excalibur is ugly!

 

[toyomatt84]

Well... I'm quite upset at how this thread has gone.

Let's try and get some facts straight, shall we?

First off Bugatti has been around since the year 1900. Ettori Bugatti was born in 1881 and his first model for the Bugatti Car Company was the "Type 2". As the years went on, Bugatti started to evolve his car company into a more "sports car" themed car company, focusing majorly on the performance of a vehicle in a race. One of the famous older versions of the car happens to be the "Type 35". It was extremely sucessful in its time, and after a few updates was still one of the most revered race cars in the '20's. Bugatti's sucess through him the idea of spreading his car company to the luxury vehicles of the time. The "Type 57" brought much to the table with it's very smooth body lines and overall great ride. But, do to many problems in the years following, the company dropped production and design of many vehicles and pretty much dropped off the map in the '50's.

Early '90's brought Bugatti back to life. In 1991, Ettori's 110'th birthday, the EB110 was released. With a substantial V12, this car was definitely that of the supercar heritage. Battling Lamborghini's, Ferrari's, Porsche's, and many others, this small-time company was more reserved for the upper-class racers on the market.

1998 and many things happen. Volkswagen acquires the Bugatti Licensing Title, and Bugatti's vehicles are reborn. The EB118 was the first to show, with an astounding body style and over-the-top drivetrain. With a 6.3 Liter 18 cylinder engine pumping out 555hp to the all-time 4wd and multi-steering chassis, this car roared down the hiqhway. It was comfortable to drive, and was like nothing else on the road.

It was followed by the design and production of the EB218, which was much more limousine-esque, but still retained that overall teardrop shape. But, this wasn't all that was in-store for Bugatti. The 18/3 Chiron was unveiled at an Italian Car Show, and audiences were awe-struck. How could they top on the EB110's sucess in the supercar category? Well, the Chiron was an overall great design that was lost in the papers of the Veyron 18/4. Bigger, badder, more aggressive was the overall change idea. The engine was too large now, and the Bugatti group wanted something that would be more symmetrical, so the pulled two cylinders out of the design, and called it the Veyron 16/4. With a sequential 7-speed rated at 252 mph, this car ran about 316 mph on the salt flats in Utah at an undisclosed test. With 20"+ rims sporting some heavy rubber, and an all-time 4wd system that is one of the best on the market, this car stuck to the road. Also, the auto-ejecting rear spoiler, and the 18" calipers brought this car even closer to Le Mans ready.

The Veyron 16/4 is available on the market today and can be seen at Bugatti's Website.

Now, as for the car being ugly.... If you looked at the steering wheel, that's probably the worst part of the car, and said it was ugly I would agree. But, as for the whole car being ugly, you'd be wrong, in fact, you couldn't be farther from the truth.

And, the McLaren F1, it's a nice car, but with only a V6, 2wd, and a 6-speed, it's outclassed. And, for a million dollars, it's way overpriced, being that the Veyron is only 850,000.

 

[The359]

I don't know where you got your facts from...

In 1990 Bugatti was purchased by an Italian entrepeneur, who unveiled the ID90 concept car as a preview of what would become the EB110.

The two limosuine concepts that the VAG owned Bugatti built were never production cars and pure concepts.

And the W16 actually has no relation with the W18 engine. The W18 has 3 banks of 6 cylinders, basically a V12 with another row of cylinders. The W16 is 4 banks with 4 cylinders, basically two V8s grafted together.

The Bugatti EB16/4 Veyron is NOT for sale, and will not be for nearly another year. The car has suffered from rear end instability above 200mph, and has NEVER reached 316mph anywhere at anytime. A Veyron test mule was destroyed when it crashed at over 200mph on a straight. VAG is also toying with the idea of giving the EB16/4 a limiter so that it cannot surpass 218mph and kill potential customers. In fact, at the Monterey Classic Races at Laguna Seca a few years ago, a prototype EB16/4 was being taken around the track by a test driver at slow speeds and nearly crashed into a concrete wall when the driver got a little overzealous.

Bugatti is also NOT entering into LeMans

And the McLaren F1 has a V12 and has yet to be outclasses by any supercar made in the past 13 years.

Also the Bugatti EB16/4 Veyron will STILL cost $1,000,000 when new.

 

[TheCracker]

The Veyron is the automotive equiverlent of GranTurismo 4 - its never going to come out, it keeps getting down graded, and its most likely to never live upto expectations

If i remember rightly, the Veyron will be limited to 155mph (or was it 185mph?) If an owner wants to go faster they have to ship their car back to the factory where VW will remove the limiter and fit a set of higher speed rated tyres. - How many owners will ever do this? so really it has a top speed of 155/185mph and only theoretically a top speed of over 200mph

 

[X5.]

The Bugatti Veyron, IMO, looks great. The only downside to it is that this "supercar" has a lot of faults which sadly means this great beast may come out, not as initially planned (As a lot of people have already implied in this thread). The team down at VW focused mainly on setting a new Max speed record and totally ignored the basic aspects that make a car. I think they have to sort themselves out cos the Bugatti Veyron has got potential.

 

[Danny]

How desperate do you need to be to win the horsepower stakes?
Enough to be undrivable?
Just as well it'll probably never happen.
You wanted discussion of it, and you got it.

 

[toyomatt84]

I don't know where you got your facts from...

The Bugatti website...

I didn't ever say that they were going to enter LeMans.

Yes, they are for sale, but they are custom order vehicles for the high-rollers. Check out DuPont Registry, a shiek (but of course) in like Afghanistan has one already.

The W-formation was derived from the W18, but was altered due to the width of the heads. In order to make more room for the top half of the engine, they cut out 2 cylinders and threw in another crankshaft. This widened the narrow bottom end of the engine block, and freed up some space in the upper portions. Then to compensate for the power loss of cutting two cylinders and adding a crankshaft, they threw on a different turbo setup. Thus... the 16/4 was a DERIVATION of the original W18.

Oh, and the shiek got the car for right around 848,000 usd. So yes, they are under 1mil.

 

[The359]

The Bugatti website...

I didn't ever say that they were going to enter LeMans.

"Also, the auto-ejecting rear spoiler, and the 18" calipers brought this car even closer to Le Mans ready."

Yes, they are for sale, but they are custom order vehicles for the high-rollers. Check out DuPont Registry, a shiek (but of course) in like Afghanistan has one already.

They are for sale, as in you can ORDER it and put down a hefty down payment, but you certainly no one will be receiving their cars for another year.

The W-formation was derived from the W18, but was altered due to the width of the heads. In order to make more room for the top half of the engine, they cut out 2 cylinders and threw in another crankshaft. This widened the narrow bottom end of the engine block, and freed up some space in the upper portions. Then to compensate for the power loss of cutting two cylinders and adding a crankshaft, they threw on a different turbo setup. Thus... the 16/4 was a DERIVATION of the original W18.

The W18 is 3 banks, the W16 is 4 banks. You can't gain a whole other bank of cylinders by just chopping two off.

Oh, and the shiek got the car for right around 848,000 usd. So yes, they are under 1mil.

No one owns a Bugatti EB16/4 Veyron. And they still cost $1,000,000. AutoWeek recently interviewed Bugatti's chief and he confirmed that the cost would not come down even with the delays that their customers are having to put up with.

DuPontRegistry.com lists no Bugatti EB16/4 Veyrons for sale.

 

[McLaren]

I would still take a McLaren F1. ITs too much of a classic supercar. Most people will probably buy it instead due its reputation and not to mention the company's.

 

[toyomatt84]

"Also, the auto-ejecting rear spoiler, and the 18" calipers brought this car even closer to Le Mans ready."

They are for sale, as in you can ORDER it and put down a hefty down payment, but you certainly no one will be receiving their cars for another year.

The W18 is 3 banks, the W16 is 4 banks. You can't gain a whole other bank of cylinders by just chopping two off.

No one owns a Bugatti EB16/4 Veyron. And they still cost $1,000,000. AutoWeek recently interviewed Bugatti's chief and he confirmed that the cost would not come down even with the delays that their customers are having to put up with.

DuPontRegistry.com lists no Bugatti EB16/4 Veyrons for sale.

1. I said it would be LeMans ready, meaning that you could probably take one to the course for a LeMans style race. I never said that they were going to do it. It was an opinion based statement, not a fact. You misread.

2. The car is hand-made, how the heck would you expect to see one on your doorstep in a week? They take time to make, and therefore you HAVE to custom order them. That requires a heavy down payment for ordering one, because who'd want to spend 9 months making a car, then have it be declined by the purchaser. It's a failsafe.

3. I don't know how you made that conclusion from what I wrote. I said that the W18 was the initial concept, that had to be morphed in order to fit in the designed engine bay, causing them to reduce the size of the top of the engine block. In a 3-directional W block, you have two bays leading off each side in a V formation. On the W18, those two stuck out quite far, because the heads had to clear the center head. That engine had 3 seperate heads to cover the 3 seperate bays. Now, when converting to a 2 crankshaft style W engine, there had to be even cylinder displacement on all 4 banks. So, 2 pistons were dropped, thus causing a hp loss. They changed the turbo setup to compensate. The 4 banks were more vertical and only required 2 heads due to the design change. It saved space, and also was based off of Ettori's 16 cylinder (dual inline 8's from airplanes) 1928 racer's.

4. I remember AutoWeek reporting that Plymouth was going to keep the Prowler as a standard automobile for purchase. Man, what a factual company.

5. It wasn't for sale. DuPont Registry also lists famous/rich people and their one of a kind rides. And, personally, I think DuPont's sight sucks. Their listings are typically dated, and they don't have any of the articles from past issues.

 

[McLaren]

Its...

The Battle of Veyron Gurus!

lol

 

[toyomatt84]

Its...

The Battle of Veyron Gurus!

lol

What's great about it, is he's/she's got good points and so do I. That's what makes me continue conversating.

 

[The359]

2. The car is hand-made, how the heck would you expect to see one on your doorstep in a week? They take time to make, and therefore you HAVE to custom order them. That requires a heavy down payment for ordering one, because who'd want to spend 9 months making a car, then have it be declined by the purchaser. It's a failsafe.

Aston Martin's are hand made. They take 6 weeks to build. The Bugatti wont be in customer's hands until late 2005 because the cars just aren't ready to be built. They were SUPPOSED to be in customers driveways way back in 2003. They've delayed the project numerous times and they cars wont even begin construction until MID-2005.

3. I don't know how you made that conclusion from what I wrote. I said that the W18 was the initial concept, that had to be morphed in order to fit in the designed engine bay, causing them to reduce the size of the top of the engine block. In a 3-directional W block, you have two bays leading off each side in a V formation. On the W18, those two stuck out quite far, because the heads had to clear the center head. That engine had 3 seperate heads to cover the 3 seperate bays. Now, when converting to a 2 crankshaft style W engine, there had to be even cylinder displacement on all 4 banks. So, 2 pistons were dropped, thus causing a hp loss. They changed the turbo setup to compensate. The 4 banks were more vertical and only required 2 heads due to the design change. It saved space, and also was based off of Ettori's 16 cylinder (dual inline 8's from airplanes) 1928 racer's.

You claimed that to make the W16, they chopped two cylinders off of the W18. They did not. The W16 was made from scratch and shares nothing with the W18 in its basic architecture. In order to go to a 4-bank design anyway they couldn't do 18 cylinders because it'd be unbalanced. The new W16 however is not merely two Straight-8s morphed together, it is two V8's literally placed on to of one another and sharing a driveshaft.

4. I remember AutoWeek reporting that Plymouth was going to keep the Prowler as a standard automobile for purchase. Man, what a factual company.

Plymouth did for their final year. It was the only car they sold until it became a Chrysler.

5. It wasn't for sale. DuPont Registry also lists famous/rich people and their one of a kind rides. And, personally, I think DuPont's sight sucks. Their listings are typically dated, and they don't have any of the articles from past issues.

Find me the article then. No one owns a Bugatti EB16/4 Veyron except for Bugatti themselves, and those are test mules. I have videos of these test mules going around the track.

 

[toyomatt84]

Aston Martin's are hand made. They take 6 weeks to build. The Bugatti wont be in customer's hands until late 2005 because the cars just aren't ready to be built. They were SUPPOSED to be in customers driveways way back in 2003. They've delayed the project numerous times and they cars wont even begin construction until MID-2005.

Well, the estimated time to complete a Veyron is 9 months. That is according to Car&Driver Magazine. I read that article a while back.

You claimed that to make the W16, they chopped two cylinders off of the W18. They did not. The W16 was made from scratch and shares nothing with the W18 in its basic architecture. In order to go to a 4-bank design anyway they couldn't do 18 cylinders because it'd be unbalanced. The new W16 however is not merely two Straight-8s morphed together, it is two V8's literally placed on to of one another and sharing a driveshaft.

No, I never said that they made the W16 from the W18. I said that they carried the ideas from the W18 over to the W16. I also never said that the W16 is just 2 inline-8's. But, if I understand what you're saying correctly, the W16 that they have in design now does have 2 crankshafts (not driveshafts, those connect the transmission to the differential/s).

Plymouth did for their final year. It was the only car they sold until it became a Chrysler.

I meant that they said Plymouth was going to keep the Prowler line for more than just one year. As in, like maybe a Ford Taurus.

Find me the article then. No one owns a Bugatti EB16/4 Veyron except for Bugatti themselves, and those are test mules. I have videos of these test mules going around the track.

The article was in one of the magazine's a while back. I doubt I still have the issue, and I completely doubt that the website would tell me which one it was. I apologize that I can't back up this portion better, but I just don't have the physical evidence to prove my point.

 

[The359]

Well, the estimated time to complete a Veyron is 9 months. That is according to Car&Driver Magazine. I read that article a while back.

It doesn't even take a McLaren F1 9 months to be built, there's no reason a production Veyron should take that long.

I meant that they said Plymouth was going to keep the Prowler line for more than just one year. As in, like maybe a Ford Taurus.

The Prowler was made for roughly 7 years.

The article was in one of the magazine's a while back. I doubt I still have the issue, and I completely doubt that the website would tell me which one it was. I apologize that I can't back up this portion better, but I just don't have the physical evidence to prove my point.

There is no evidence anywhere else of anyone owning a Veyron.

 

[Danny]

It doesn't even take a McLaren F1 9 months to be built, there's no reason a production Veyron should take that long.

Then again, McLaren didn't have to shoehorn in the world's supply of turbos.

Aston Martin's are hand made. They take 6 weeks to build. The Bugatti wont be in customer's hands until late 2005 because the cars just aren't ready to be built. They were SUPPOSED to be in customers driveways way back in 2003. They've delayed the project numerous times and they cars wont even begin construction until MID-2005.

And I'm sure a Veyron would be more difficult to build, and almost certainly would need more parts.

 

[toyomatt84]

It doesn't even take a McLaren F1 9 months to be built, there's no reason a production Veyron should take that long.

I hate to say it, but a Veyron isn't a McLaren. The crew backing up the production of McLaren F1's is almost 5 times that of Bugatti's. I'd agree that it doesn't take as long, due to how many more resources the company has when compared to Bugatti.

The Prowler was made for roughly 7 years.

Jeesh, do I have to spell it out? They said that the Prowler was going to be a consumer line lasting longer than a decade, much like the Ford Taurus.

There is no evidence anywhere else of anyone owning a Veyron.

Yes, yes there is, I just can't phyisically prove it until I find that copy of DuPont Registry. Once I do, I'll make sure to notify you.

 

[The359]

I hate to say it, but a Veyron isn't a McLaren. The crew backing up the production of McLaren F1's is almost 5 times that of Bugatti's. I'd agree that it doesn't take as long, due to how many more resources the company has when compared to Bugatti.

VAG doesn't have more manpower or resources then McLaren? McLaren didn't even have to build their engine, so that eliminates that group of people right there. The simple fact is that the reason people don't have their Bugattis now is NOT because they take so long to build, but because VAG can't get the cars to work. People wont be getting their cars for a YEAR from now, and yet people have had them on order since 2003. It doesn't take two years to build a car.

Jeesh, do I have to spell it out? They said that the Prowler was going to be a consumer line lasting longer than a decade, much like the Ford Taurus.

It would have had Plymouth not bowed out.

Yes, yes there is, I just can't phyisically prove it until I find that copy of DuPont Registry. Once I do, I'll make sure to notify you.

One source that you cannot provide, without a single one anywhere else on the internet or otherwise. That's not weighing very good in your favor.

 

[toyomatt84]

It would have had Plymouth not bowed out.

Well, they said it wouldn't. Rest my point.

One source that you cannot provide, without a single one anywhere else on the internet or otherwise. That's not weighing very good in your favor.

Well, thanks for proving the obvious. I'm tearing my room apart to see if I still have the 'zine. It was quite an article, and you should just see it to see the pic of the Veyron. But, back to hunting for the article.