The Carmagedonn Thread: FCA and "Consolidation"

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I thought we've known for two weeks that GM would be headed for bankruptcy?

Unlike Chrysler, GM does seem to have a future. Well, I guess they've been saying that since the 90s went away, and that future hasn't yet come. But a lot of people are saying that the Chevy lineup we'll be seeing in the next year or so should be very competitive. We'll see if the company actually will be.

It is a bit scary what'll happen to the Detroit area when GM heads for bankruptcy though. Hopefully you'll be able to pull through, Joey.
 
Joey D
Ya true enough, I just don't know if this area can take another blow like this. According to the newspapers we'll be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30% unemployment in Michigan if GM files for bankruptcy. I know bankruptcy does not mean the liquidation of GM, but it does mean a lot of people will be looking for work. I'm thrilled to death, I have a college degree and can't find a decent job...lame.
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The capital and labor won't just disappear. The plants will put as many or more people to work once they get into the hands of those who can use them profitably.

It's the unions that will suffer... and rightfully so.
 
Late to the party as usual... my 2 cents follows:
Hope I'm not just re-iterating something somebody smarter or quicker has already said.
If I do, I apologize.
That said, grab yer hats and hold on, rant begins:

General Motors in particular could cull quite a bit of spending by simply lowering the medical insurance benefits of it's retirees.

In my field, we see 45 year old GM retirees with medical insurance that makes the US Senate jealous!
Now, I'm not be-grudging anyone health insurance coverage. But it is possible to RETIRE at 40 or 45 with a full pension, and better medical coverage than dependents of serving Military.
These same people who have a narrow, specialized skill set (that may or may not involve some real skill) can go to college and re-enter the work force with a job that pays well offers medical insurance, pension, etc.

Perhaps, if coverage levels were lowered, or the retirees were paying something for coverage it would reduce some of what the company is putting out for that "little" expense.

NOTE THAT I'M NOT ADVOCATING CUTTING ALL THOSE FAMILIES OFF FROM THEIR MEDICAL INSURANCE. I AM ADVOCATING WORKING OUT SOMETHING THAT IS MORE COST EFFECTIVE.

Further, it's absolutely great that the American Car companies are actually trying to build cars that compare quality-wise to the stuff coming from overseas. But shouldn't that have been the case all-along?

We caution our kids not to wait till the last minute to write important papers for their classes? Then a SIGNIFICANT business venture waits till the verge of going under to bring out some potentially good cars that no one wants because quality has been near abyssmal for so long.

We are not going to finally trust "Lucy" to hold the football for us to run up and kick, when it's been jerked away every other time. (for those of you that don't understand that analogy, get up to date on your Charlie Brown cartoons).

Rant ends here. (for now)
 
Omnis
The capital and labor won't just disappear. The plants will put as many or more people to work once they get into the hands of those who can use them profitably.

It's the unions that will suffer... and rightfully so.
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Yes but out of work UAW people are still out of work people. And they are just going to probably go on welfare. Either way I'm going to be supporting them while I still struggle to find a job because of the ripple effect. Letting GM go bankrupt is a real damn if we do, damn if we don't situation in my opinion.

I'm just curious what the stock market will do when it's announced.
 
I think we'll get screwed, but I'm not sure if it will be as bad as we thought. What will be a problem will be the initial idle time while GM goes through restructuring, where no workers will be operating... No orders done on third suppliers... etc. With Chrysler possibly coming out of bankruptcy before the end of the month, that should be a somewhat positive note for what could happen with GM. We'll see, I guess I'm attempting to keep it on a high note for now.
 
Various news broadcasters give the impression, however, that all the Parts suppliers will be gone and out of business before GM completes its restructuring.

Something I don't understand is why other manufacturers with plants in the US don't snatch up all these Loose Chrysler and GM employees. thing is, they may not want to, on both sides. too used to the UAW's gigantic goodie package, and various other reasons. I gather these guys have never been at the point where ANY kind of work is better than nothing. believe me, I'M at that point where I'll take anything just to pay the bills...if I could find anyone who doesn't automatically take my real name for a dumb blond. I've been turned away from even restaurant jobs because they're only hiring women. having a perspective employer tell you that at 16, and subsuquent employers tell you they're only looking for "mature Applicants" gets rather tiring.
 
I have to imagine the announcement for GM's bankruptcy is coming today, the UAW local across the street from my house was packed when I left for work with a stream of cars still coming in. That only means that something big is happening in GM land.
 
Sniffs
Various news broadcasters give the impression, however, that all the Parts suppliers will be gone and out of business before GM completes its restructuring.
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On the plus side for GM, this could mean that GM (and Chrysler and Ford) would each be in charge of their own parts businesses...

and subsuquent employers tell you they're only looking for "mature Applicants" gets rather tiring.
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Just wait a few years. They'll be telling you that they're only looking for youthful applicants... :scared:
 
Joey D
I have to imagine the announcement for GM's bankruptcy is coming today, the UAW local across the street from my house was packed when I left for work with a stream of cars still coming in. That only means that something big is happening in GM land.
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The big deal today was the agreement made with the bond holders for more equity of the company - but what the actual figures are, I do not know.
 
An Opel Deal Has Been Made (?)

According to Autoblog, it has. Looks like Magna International will be getting the company, however GM will retain a 35% share in the company, the workers getting 10% as well. Frankly, GM can't allow for all of Opel to go, particularly when it comes to the engineering of their newer vehicles. I'm guessing this turns into a Ford/Mazda-like relationship in the next few years.
 
Maybe we'll get more Opels in the states now since Magna is a Canadian company...right?
 
I kinda doubt it. Saturn has already proved that doesn't work. And I think that that'll either ruin Buick as well, or Buick will get dibs to the whole Opel line.

Although, once Opel starts making unique vehicles, maybe there will be a chance of that happening.
 
Well the problem with Saturn is that we got out of date Opels. If we were to get the new Astra when the Astra actually comes out in Europe I think it could compete. Otherwise waiting what, five years, isn't exactly the way to do it.
 
The thing that killed the Saturn Opels was them being priced out of the competition. The manufacturing costs, conversion factors and shipping costs basically made the cars cost more than they were worth. You seriously can't expect to sell many Astras if their starting price is a good couple grand above the superior Rabbit and Mazda 3. If they could find a way to bring the cars over and sell them at an actual entry level compact price, then Opels very well may have a decent chance of selling here.

With some of the new cars on the way from other brands, it's going to turn into a pretty competitive place to sell Opels. I don't think it's impossible, but I think it would be hard for Magna to successfully have Opels marketed in the US again.
 
Thing is, Magna doesn't have any other major manufacturer to their name. It they want to sell anything in the US on their own, they'll have to sell Opels. They could license the designs back to GM, though.
 
GM will still hold a 35% share in Opel, so, I don't know. My guess is that Magna just wants to have something to put their production capacity to use - my guess is that Opel won't leave the shores of Europe unless its a co-developed product with GM.
 
Opel Has Been Acquired by Magna International and the Russians

That's what Autoblog is telling us...

  1. GM will retain a 35% share of the company
  2. The Russians get 35%
  3. Magna International takes 20%
  4. Opel Employees get the final 10%

Sooo, even if Magna is buying in... Its still a GM operation. Weird. I guess Opel really does become almost the same as Mazda then.

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GM to Declare Bankruptcy on Monday

The Detroit News is saying it will be announced at 6:00AM EST on Monday, according to Jalopnik, with the Obama Administration already having turnaround executives in place to help GM (I hear Obama will be addressing the nation on Monday about it).

Its an unfortunate end, but as long as there still is some kind of GM around, I'm happy.
 
Is there any desirable GM product at this point? My uncle just got 3 thousand bucks toward a GM vehicle on his GM card. Talk about desperate... nothing like fleecing the taxpayers of their dollars and giving them to GM cardholders.
 
Opel sold to Magna/Russians could be interesting... Opels in Canada and Russia? Hmmmm... maybe US? Who knows... As for the General... :( Damn... sad day in Lansing, Flint, Detroit, Fort Wayne, and Indianapolis. :( --- Randy
 
As for GM products being desirable, well, I think they're getting better. Granted I don't think Toyotas and things are "desirable," but I think a lot of the GM offerings are getting more in line with the competition.

YSSMAN
Opel Has Been Acquired by Magna International and the Russians
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Who are "the Russians?" Is this the government trying to turn Opel into the next Russian car maker? Or are there a bunch of Russian investors that are pooling together on this? Or a Russian company?

Sooo, even if Magna is buying in... Its still a GM operation. Weird. I guess Opel really does become almost the same as Mazda then.
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That could make things interesting. I'm all for companies being independent and stuff. If Opel then gets to design their own cars, and there is a GM/Opel sharing of some bits and pieces, I think that would be great. But I think this might turn out a little different from Mazda/Ford.

GM to Declare Bankruptcy on Monday

Its an unfortunate end, but as long as there still is some kind of GM around, I'm happy.
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GM-Important-Change_01.jpg


^^^ This might be a good place for that.

Don't think of it as an end. It's just a new beginning, right?
 
I'm glad Opel didn't go to Fiat, they can remain cool in my eyes now.👍
 
Well, K-Mart is still around, and they went bankrupt awhile back...

although K-Mart is now a division of Sears...NVM.
 
I'm curious, this auto manufacturer, which seems to have more cash around it than most countries is only the third largest bankruptcy in US history? What was first?!:crazy::scared: I think the tombstone is a little incorrect as GM will be back in a few months. It should say Old GM.
 
well, it seems that when it returns, it will really be Government Motors, American Leyland etc etc.. you get the picture. Product lineup probably consists of ugly Prius-wannabes, powered by bong-sucking tree-hugging hippies.
 
Leonidae
well, it seems that when it returns, it will really be Government Motors, American Leyland etc etc.. you get the picture. Product lineup probably consists of ugly Prius-wannabes, powered by bong-sucking tree-hugging hippies.
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Who knows, but if you ask me the Volt looks like a far more attractive vehicle than a Prius :crazy:, and I doubt that will die. TBH I don't care who owns them (as long as it's not another car company), so long as they make cars appealing to me. If not, well, I'll always have memories of what GM did in the past.👍
 
My mom just asked me if our next car should be a Government Motors vehicle. Ummmmmm, no. The only reason they bought that Impala, and then that G6, is because it was cheap. It was cheap because it was discounted to oblivion.

A couple weeks ago I convinced my mom and dad to go look at a Kia Soul. They liked it. The only thing they didn't like about it was that there is no cargo room behind the second row, but then again, I can't remember the last time they took a trip with all the seats full and needed the whole trunk full too. Lugging around a car twice as big for a trunk you may use once is not a fair tradeoff. Besides that, she loved the style, the packaging, the "hipness", the crazy colors, etc. I told her there's a couple more practical and interesting offerings out there.
 
In the end, even $19.4 billion in federal help wasn't enough to keep the nation's largest automaker out of bankruptcy. The government will pour another $30 billion into GM to fund operations during its reorganization.

Taxpayers will end up with a 60% stake in GM, with the union, its creditors and federal and provincial governments in Canada owning the remainder of the company.

GM will shed its Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab brands and cut loose more than 2,000 of its 6,000 U.S. dealerships by next year. That could result in more than 100,000 additional job losses if those dealerships are forced to close.

A dozen facilities were identified for closure. Those plants employ most of the more than 20,000 U.S. workers GM intends to cut by the end of next year.

Assembly lines in Pontiac, Mich., which make full-size pickup trucks, will be closed later this year. A Wilmington, Del.-based plant that makes roadsters for the Pontiac and Saturn brands, will also close later this year.

Three parts distribution warehouses are set to close at the end of this year, while five engine plants and a stamping plant are due to close in 2010. An additional stamping plant is set to close in 2011.

Three more plants. including assembly lines in Spring Hill, Tenn., and Orion, Mich.,are set to be idled and put on stand by status in hopes for a rebound in sales that may never come.

More than 650,000 retirees and their family members who depend on the company for health insurance will experience cutbacks in their coverage, although their pension benefits are unaffected for now.
(More at)
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/01/news/companies/gm_bankruptcy/index.htm?postversion=2009060111

My Father worked for the Delphi plant near Dayton and retired from there...what lies ahead now we must wait and see.
 
Delirious
My Father worked for the Delphi plant near Dayton and retired from there...what lies ahead now we must wait and see.
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Hopefully they're left with something. There were thousands of people who worked at the Delphi and GM plants here in Moraine, and I know a few of them.
 
Omnis
Is there any desirable GM product at this point?
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I guess that depends on what kind of time-line you're looking at to buy a new vehicle. Outside of the CTS, Malibu, Enclave, G8 and Camaro - there isn't much that is outstandingly awesome. The addition of the new LaCrosse and the Cruze will move things along nicely by the end of the year (we can count the CTS Wagon and SRX as well), but only having six well-done vehicles isn't exactly enough to float an entire company.

Philly
Who are "the Russians?"
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The state-owned bank, Sberbank, is taking that massive share of Opel. Although, I don't think they'll have any level of control over the company.

Paulie
I'm curious, this auto manufacturer, which seems to have more cash around it than most countries is only the third largest bankruptcy in US history? What was first?
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As I recall it was Lehman Brothers (bank/investment firm) and WorldCom (telephone compny) who still top the GM Bankruptcy.

Leonaide
well, it seems that when it returns, it will really be Government Motors, American Leyland etc etc.. you get the picture. Product lineup probably consists of ugly Prius-wannabes, powered by bong-sucking tree-hugging hippies.
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FAIL.

What you're talking about there isn't anywhere close to the truth. While the Federal Government may be taking the largest share of GM, by no means will they be looking to control the product lineups of the company, Fritz Henderson spoke to that earlier this afternoon. GM will continue to build cars like the Corvette, Camaro, Cobalt SS (coupe), and CTS (among others) that are not only *gasp* sporty, but also *gasp* fun to drive because *GASP* there is still a market for it.

Certainly, it seems likely that GM will become a leader for green, high-efficiency vehicles in the future. But you know what, no one is forcing you (or anyone else) to buy these vehicles. Problem is, there are still significant pieces of the market that do want them - and will buy them - and would love to have an American badge on the front.

The doom and gloom scenario for GM's product line is absolutely unnecessary, and honestly, it makes people like me - and I'm certain people who work for, with, and around GM - rather upset. Things are going to change, the old GM is dead. But it isn't as though things are going to turn upside down immediately. It is a long road ahead for recovery, but with the Fed already talking about how they want to dump their share of GM ASAP, I'm not that worried about who is making decisions (well, I want Fritz out, but that's another story).

So, our time of excess with the ZR1s and the CTS-Vs of the world is over. Its back to reality, in much the same way it was in the early 70's and early '80s. When times are "good" again, the product lines will reflect it. Everything hit its peak back in 2006-2007, and all we can really do is attempt to remember it, honor it, and attempt to enjoy those pieces of history as best we can.

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Chrysler Asset Sale to FIAT is Approved

I think we can all breathe a sigh of relief on that, as we knew it was coming (sometime). The sooner Chrysler Group can move on, the better. FIAT has a lot of work ahead of them, but I believe they can re-create a sustainable company that will have products worth buying again.
 

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