The Carmagedonn Thread: FCA and "Consolidation"

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It's sad, but to survive, these guys might have to pull a Caterpillar - and run themselves so freaking lean their employees work almost 24/7.

That, and move south. Mossville Engines just closed down (indefinitely?) to move production to Southern Non-union states.

Cat learned in the '80s how to screw over the UAW, and have been doing it ever since. They used a strike to take the slop out of their processes at a plant...and when the workers came back, not everyone could be hired back on. Nasty, but effective.

"Um, sorry. I know you just spent a month unpaid trying to get your contract, but your position DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE."
 
If it were really up to me, it would just be Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac and Cadillac. Buick would for the most part carry Opel products, Pontiac carrying a select few Holden products, Chevrolet taking a bit of everything, and Cadillac running its own game. Its sad to see Saab go, Saturn and GMC I'm willing to part with now. The thing is though, even if they operate with four core brands, I still feel like the model counts need to be cut down significantly in order to keep brands profitable. Although, now that I really think about it, assuming that Pontiac would stick to the G8, Solstice and G6... Buick sticking only to the Excelle/Skylark, LaCrosse, Lucerne and Enclave... Overlap is pretty much eliminated completely with the new product rollouts that are scheduled.
 
Looks like FIAT doesn't just want a stake in Chrysler, and news from Canada..

DETROIT (Reuters) - U.S. automaker Chrysler, already operating under government emergency aid, would cede control of its board and ultimately senior leadership if it completes a planned alliance with Italy's Fiat SpA.


The U.S. government and Fiat would appoint a board of directors for Chrysler, with a majority of them independent directors who are not employees of either automaker, Chrysler Chief Executive Bob Nardelli said on Thursday in an internal memo to workers obtained by Reuters.


"The board will have the responsibility to appoint a chairman," Nardelli said.


"The board also will select a CEO with Fiat's concurrence."



That could mean the end of Nardelli's tenure at Chrysler, where he was named chairman and CEO in 2007 shortly after Cerberus Capital Management acquired its 80.1 percent stake in the automaker from Daimler AG.


Chrysler and Fiat have been in talks to complete a partnership by the end of April to meet the requirements of U.S. government emergency aid and avoid a bankruptcy filing.


The U.S. autos taskforce rejected Chrysler's turnaround plan in late March and gave the company until the end of April to cement the Fiat alliance and reach agreements with its unions to slash labor costs and with its lenders to cut debt.


"Fiat strongly believes in the mutual benefits the alliance would create for both of our companies, our customers, employees and other constituents," Nardelli said.


"We continue to review the status of all stakeholder discussions with Fiat, as the achievement of concessions is a condition of the alliance," he said.


The deal with Fiat hinges on Chrysler securing concessions from unions in the U.S. and Canada, as well as agreement with those who hold Chrysler's first-lien loans, which includes a group led by JPMorgan Chase & Co and Goldman Sachs Group, Morgan Stanley and Citigroup.


Chrysler has about $7 billion of first-lien loans that stem from its breakaway from Daimler in 2007, and the creditor group had been asked initially to accept a steep reduction. Daimler still holds a stake of nearly 20 percent in Chrysler.


The U.S. Treasury has met regularly with the group, which has been asked "to make significant additional concessions," Nardelli said.


The U.S. Treasury has extended a concessions proposal to the group, which is expected to respond to the offer shortly, Nardelli added.


Sources with knowledge of the matter told Reuters this week that Chrysler's first-lien lenders were preparing a counter-offer for the Treasury that might include equity in a Chrysler-Fiat alliance and some cash in exchange for abandoning their claim to some $7 billion of debt.


The lenders were responding two weeks after the creditors rejected a request from the Treasury to write off $6 billion of the amount they are owed, the sources said.



Chrysler is also in talks with the United Auto Workers union to restructure its union-aligned retiree healthcare trust by making part of its payments in equity rather than cash.


With the Canadian Auto Workers, Chrysler is seeking to reduce wages and benefits to match those paid by foreign automakers in the country.


"The additional concessions we are seeking from the UAW are critical to receiving continued support of the administration, completing our Fiat alliance and achieving sustained viability," Nardelli said.


The CAW expects to resume talks with Chrysler on Monday and said it had invited Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne to join the discussion. Marchionne had been critical of the union, saying that a lack of progress in talks between the union and Chrysler had reduced the likelihood of the alliance being completed.


Chrysler has been operating under $4 billion of U.S. government emergency aid and could receive up to $6 billion additional aid if it completes the alliance and other cost-cutting measures.


The taskforce also rejected a turnaround plan by Chrysler rival General Motors Corp, which has been given until the end of May to prepare much deeper cuts than it had previously planned and make them far faster as well.
 
I don't see a problem. FIAT board members (assuming that don't go all Doctor Z on us) should be beneficial to both, and it may allow Chrysler to toss out UAW completely.
 
Tossing out the UAW is going to be the key, because honestly, FIAT won't deal with it. If they stick to their earlier talks where they want to re-open plants in the Mid-West, I think at this point, people would want that over having UAW "protection."

With thirteen days left, Cerberus bleeding cash, and generally no really serious way for Chrysler to recover on its own - its become an inevitability for Chrysler to be gobbled up by FIAT at this point. Hell, Jim Press had the damn 500 at the NYC Auto Show talking about "how great of a company car" it would be.

Let the Italians run the board, give Jim Press the head honcho spot, and sell FIATs here. End of story.
 
Its official, the world(or the car world here in america) is coming to an end.
 
Don't keep your hopes up yet for Chrysler... They've only got eight more days to figure out a deal with FIAT before they go into liquidation as well. GM will likely make it, albeit presumably through bankruptcy. Its a bit sad, really... But as long as they stick around, that's all I care about.
 
They've only got eight more days to figure out a deal with FIAT before they go into liquidation as well
8 days longer is still simply amazing, considering nothing looked wrong with GM before September and everyone has known Chrysler has been bleeding money for years.
 
Which makes me wonder:

Is FIAT moving them toward liquidation so they can instead buy them for 2/3 of the price?
 
Why not? It makes perfect sense as a business decision, so long as they act fast so the pieces left over aren't China-ized.
 
I don't think the government will let GM go completely under.

But they are shutting down most US plants for 9 weeks. Link
 
Don't keep your hopes up yet for Chrysler... They've only got eight more days to figure out a deal with FIAT before they go into liquidation as well. GM will likely make it, albeit presumably through bankruptcy. Its a bit sad, really... But as long as they stick around, that's all I care about.

GM hasn't filed for bankruptcy yet. They're just saying they don't plan on making the deadline, and it looks like Chrysler won't either. So they'll both be going down at the same time.

Which makes me wonder:

Is FIAT moving them toward liquidation so they can instead buy them for 2/3 of the price?

I thought we knew this was the case as soon as the government said they had to rethink the deal with FIAT, and that the renegotiations weren't going so well.
 
I wouldn't call it purchasing. I wonder where FIAT is getting all this money. Maybe the Italian government? Because big time purchasing power like this is pretty rare with the automotive industry the way it currently is...

It looks like GM is really trying to give the impression that they're trying to downsize big time really quickly. We'll see if that actually happens, especially with the way they still are in possession of HUMMER. If they were serious about that, then they probably would have just dropped HUMMER back in January without a buyer and would have been in serious enough talks with people to offload Saturn by now.

Is Opel losing them much money? Because it seems a little strange that they'd just give up a brand that is actually doing rather well in Europe, basically just giving up on that whole market.
 
Well, and I have to wonder if Vauxhall and Holden becomes a part of the package. I mean, outside of Daewoo, Opel has been driving technology development within the company for some time. That, and (someone correct if I'm wrong), is it not the second or third largest car company in Europe in terms of sales?
 
(Sorry about the DP)

Chrysler Is Readying Bankruptcy

According to the NYT
, Chrysler's bankruptcy is likely to happen next week, which will see the brand sold off to multiple buyers, including FIAT, the UAW, and the US Treasury Dept.

FIAT gets their way in both the Chrysler and GM situation. They may be just as clever as those buggers at Porsche...
 
Who'da thunk it? FIAT were dying pretty quickly ten years ago (or even more recently) and now they're wanting to buy bits of the previous biggest automobile company in the world?

FIAT must be getting some money from the Italian government. Their new models have been proving pretty successful over the past few years but you don't go from losing money hand over fist to suddenly wanting to buy big chunks of GM without a bit of financial backing. Perhaps the Italian government are spending in the short term for a long-term gain if/when the world economy picks up again.
 
First Blood:
Autoblog
REPORT: General Motors to kill Pontiac on Monday
According to a report from InsideLine, General Motors could axe Pontiac as early as this Monday. Although IL isn't citing its source within GM, it did contact the General's PR man, Tom Wilkinson, who said, "There's nothing I can share with you at this time... Officially, nothing has changed with Pontiac's niche-brand status, until you hear differently." Not very clear, but not particularly positive either.

The line about Pontiac's "niche-brand status" has been floating around since last December, when GM began to focus on its four core brands – Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC – while readying the rest (Saab, Saturn and Hummer) for execution or extradition.

Pontiac's focus has been ill-defined (at best) over the decade, with solid products like the G8 coming to market alongside other less-than-stellar offerings (cough, G3). There was talk of reigniting Pontiac's performance heritage or even refocusing the brand as a Scion competitor. Regardless of past plans or intentions, there was no doubt that Pontiac was in the cross-hairs, and come Monday, we might know it's final fate.

I don't know how I feel about Chrysler and GM dying, on the one hand I think their business model fails and they no longer build quality products. But on the other I know if they tank then Southeast Michigan will be the worse place in the country to live. The worried look in friends and family's eyes isn't reassuring.
 
Its all incredibly awkward. Now we have Mike Cox (Michigan Atty Gen) pleading with Chrysler and GM to have their bankruptcy hearings here too. Its all an absolute disaster, and we're just sitting in our houses waiting for the roof to collapse in on us.

*sigh*

...To see Pontiac (probably) leaving, it just hurts that much more. Of course, worse come to worse, we could have the Impala go RWD as it should have. But that assumes that GM wants to spend the money again...
 
First Blood:

Of all the brands, why is Pontiac the first to go? It would have made much more sense to just kill HUMMER or Saab instead of trying to find a buyer for them, if they're going to just kill a brand.
 
What I'm curious about is, since there seems to be no turning back now from bankruptcy, why don't they just hold on to it until then?
 
It would have made much more sense to just kill HUMMER or Saab instead of trying to find a buyer for them, if they're going to just kill a brand.

Saab will be sold. HUMMER, I'm guessing not. Personally speaking, I think we've got more to worry about if Opel is sold off than anything else. There were dirty rumors a while back that Holden could go on the chopping block as well, which would be a massive loss in my opinion.

...All of which makes me wonder...

Could GM sell Saab and Opel as a package? After all, they're pretty much building the same cars...
 
my opinion: buy a chevy or dodge, now, before Fiat turns them into 3 cylinder city cars!

I have a distinct feeling the american automotive industry is being given a Bum's Rush. when that happens, what do we have left? NADA. the only thing America exports is entertainment, and we're getting bleeped at for culturally destroying everybody else's culture. *sigh*

oh, a little reminder to Fiat SpA...once a piece of crap, always a piece of crap...and if you turn what's left of america's automotive scene into rust piles...beware the lawyers!

earlier, people mentioned the various UAW people. I think that the second you start fiddling with america's unions, you are going to see Civil War Two!
 
No, not really. The UAW has marginalized themselves almost entirely here in the state of Michigan. I think we all recognize that while a union can be a good thing, and can accomplish a lot, based on the models used by Toyota and Honda outside of the Mid-West need to be adapted here in order to have a workforce that exists. No "revolution" needed, they've already spun themselves out of control.
 
I think I found out where all their bailout money is going...
officeopener_l.jpg


:lol:
 
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