The CTS-V Debuts: 0-60 in 3.9, Top Speed of 191 MPH

[JCE]

KPG10

The very first GT-Rs were 4-doors.

And they were quite awsomely brlliant too. I love the fact that I turned this into a Skyline thread.

R30 =

Why oh why couldn't America be more receptive to Japanese cars back in the "olden days"? Could you imagine seeing R30's here? I swear that would of been my first car if they were here. Older Japanese cars are definately uber sexy compared to most of them in the last 15 years or so.

Those figures are quite disappointing, and really shows the CTS-V has got way too much fat on it.

I don't think BMW will be losing any sleep over the CTS-V, now.

The only thing the CTS-V has going for it, and I do mean the only thing, is the price. But, honestly would you spend your extra $20k on something that has heritage, pedigree, better interior build quality, and doesn't give the stigma of an old man's car? Sorry, but the Caddy still gives off the fresh scent of Polygrip. I'd gladly pay and extra $200~250 per month for the M5 over the CTS-V.

 

[YSSMAN]

Lies and slander, all of it!

(ah!)

The 4300 lb quote was on the slushbox version, with a little more than a half tank of fuel, so I have no idea what the stick (faster top speed, likely slower 0-60 and QM times) would be by comparison. Then again, if GM is claiming 3.9 seconds, are the magazines going to be able to beat it... Or will it be like the previous generation where no one could (everyone was getting solid 5s as I recall, GM kept claiming 4.6).

I'd still have the Caddy, but yes, that's just plain predictable. I really don't see the huge gap in quality (I personally rate the CTS higher than the C-class when it comes to the interior), and as for pedigree... Meh. Cadillacs been around a lot longer, they just haven't been doing the sport sedan thing very long.

GM accomplished their goal of beating the M5, and although it took a bit more gusto than what it probably should have, they nevertheless did it. Really, the only thing they have to worry about is Audi building a soulless V5 Rocket...

 

[McLaren]

I'd still have the Caddy, but yes, that's just plain predictable. I really don't see the huge gap in quality (I personally rate the CTS higher than the C-class when it comes to the interior), and as for pedigree... Meh. Cadillacs been around a lot longer, they just haven't been doing the sport sedan thing very long.

They may be older than BMW by 11 years, but what difference does it really make?

GM accomplished their goal of beating the M5, and although it took a bit more gusto than what it probably should have, they nevertheless did it. Really, the only thing they have to worry about is Audi building a soulless V5 Rocket...

They did it, but they did it poorly because I think the CTS-V could have gone even further. And in probably 2-3 years, it will need to as Audi is not the only German who has a competitor in the pipeline.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm positive that they could have done a lot better, given the time and the money. But, with the Ultra V8 program scrapped I think they were thrown into a bit of a panic mode with finding a proper powertrain to give the car its grunt. Sadly its the weight thats killing it, so to some extent, I wish they'd hit "FF" on the Alpha development to get the 3er fighter out there and just make the CTS a 5er fighter like its trying to be.

 

[JCE]

and as for pedigree... Meh. Cadillacs been around a lot longer, they just haven't been doing the sport sedan thing very long.

GM accomplished their goal of beating the M5, and although it took a bit more gusto than what it probably should have, they nevertheless did it. Really, the only thing they have to worry about is Audi building a soulless V5 Rocket...

BMW has racing pedigree, Cadillac doesn't. Cadillac's interior build quality has been rubbish for at least 30 years BMW's hasn't. And Any Audi would be superior to the CTS-V in most catagories except weight and straightline performance. And its bad that it took GM 6.2 litres with 8 cylinders AND a supercharger to get 556bhp and Mercedes-Benz with the same litre and cylinder amount manages to get 518bhp NATURALLY ASPIRATED out of the S63/CL63 AMG models.

[QUOTE="wiki]AMG developed its own V8 engine (dubbed M156 in development) for the DTM series. This naturally aspirated V8 will also be used to replace most of the "55" models. The published output according to Mercedes varies from 481 PS (474 hp/354 kW) on the CLK63AMG, to 525 PS (518 hp/386 kW) on the S/CL 63 AMG.[/QUOTE]

You know what's even more sad? The fact that the CL63 weighs in at a very unhealthy 4,800lbs and still manages to get to 60mph in around 4.5s with an automatic. If you put this engine configuration in the CTS-V's rival--the C63 AMG--I'd imagine that it would quite frankly smoke the CTS-V. Oh, and the C63 AMG in its "lite" AMG trim only has 451bhp and manages to tie the CTS-V in 0-60mph in 3.9 seconds along with a quarter mile time of 12.3 @ 116mph. And the kicker? The base price (if you can call it a base) for the upoptioned out C63 is $55,000, a seriously loaded model is $65,000. I'll take the Merc over the Caddy thanks.

 

[Jay]

I swore I've seen a yellow R33 GT-R saloon...I think it was even in one of the GT games.

Yes that is the rare Autech version R33 Skyline GTR 4 door.

But anyway, irregardless of that fact the R33 still is the sexiest Skyline by far. The R34 comes close as does the C110 and R30 (yes I love those too)

👍 👍

KPG10

The very first GT-Rs were 4-doors.

Indeed, KPGC10 btw.

Why oh why couldn't America be more receptive to Japanese cars back in the "olden days"? Could you imagine seeing R30's here? I swear that would of been my first car if they were here. Older Japanese cars are definately uber sexy compared to most of them in the last 15 years or so.

Come to Australia, plenty of them here (from S50's, C10's, C110's, C210's, R30's and onwards etc etc)

 

[Wolfe]

I take it you guys are quoting american style 0-60 figures cause last time I knew the M5 didnt do 0-60 in 4.1 secs and I would doubt the a car in the nature of the cts-v would do it in 3.9 either.

So it has the straightline prowess to overcome the M5, but what about the corners. Cant wait to see independant reviews.

One of our magazines here, Car and Driver, is notorious for nailing some of the fastest 0-60 times around, almost always besting the manufacturer's quoted time. I believe that's where that 4.1 came from.

 

[MustangSVT]

GM accomplished their goal of beating the M5, and although it took a bit more gusto than what it probably should have, they nevertheless did it. Really, the only thing they have to worry about is Audi building a soulless V5 Rocket...

Isn't it a bit late? It's been like 3 years since the M5 came out for actual purchase. The CTS-V isn't even available to be bought yet.

 

[JCE]

Come to Australia, plenty of them here (from S50's, C10's, C110's, C210's, R30's and onwards etc etc)

Got a room for rent?

 

[JohnBM01]

I gave the CTS-V the benefit of the doubt since it does have some good performance figures. And to be honest... I gave it some benefit of the doubt because I usually feel there's an unwritten rule on GTPlanet: never hate on American cars, or you may be liable to get lynched by certain members. Either this, or always never give Japanese cars any love. That would be the other. I'm still not the world's biggest Cadillac fan. I do think it's still a very potent contender. I noted that I'd still take a BMW for the performance in the corners and such. I'd still take a BMW over a Cadillac much the same way I'd take a Porsche over a Corvette. So what if I don't have the horsepower to match up with certain cars? Handling has been more important to me in performance cars than horsepower. The McLaren F1 is still my all-time favorite sports car as it balances speed and power without too much sacrifice. I don't let performance numbers alone tell me if a car is good or not. If power is more important than handling, then you could say that city buses and big rigs are some of the best automobiles ever made. Anyone can beat a car performance wise, but you'll need to do much more in the handling department to build a bona fide handling powerhouse.

Take the Lincoln LS when it came out. Commercials and stuff were talking about how the LS could out-BMW a BMW. M5power asked me if I think it's a luxury car since I put it up as a luxury car. It is quite beautiful and still is for this 1999 or 2000 car. Setting your standards to best BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Audi are all very fine and really something to shoot for in the luxury car market. The extremes would be Aston Martin, Bentley, and Rolls-Royce. I've praised Lexus in their efforts to provide a proper luxury-type car that could better BMW or whomever else is in the sniper sights of Lexus. It will be troublesome to try to

I need some of you European folks on GTP to help me out here. Can Cadillac succeed in Europe? Can they be that amazing alternative to some of the best European luxury cars and luxury sports cars? What has to be done for Caddy to succeed in Europe? And can Cadillac actually build cars that could potentially be better than certain European cars?

 

[forza2.0]

The only thing caddillac have going for them is that they would be different to the usual european competitors. However seeing as fuel, insurance and emissions based tax is all rising means that what appeals the most to owning a caddy will be extremly expensive and therefore wouldnt sell. So therefore they would have to take a european approach. Small engines with increasing frugality in mind. And that sorta takes the appeal away of owning something american.

So ultimately no. If you dont want the usual german car people wont get a caddy to be different, they will do that with a alfa romeo.

 

[MustangSVT]

I need some of you European folks on GTP to help me out here. Can Cadillac succeed in Europe? Can they be that amazing alternative to some of the best European luxury cars and luxury sports cars? What has to be done for Caddy to succeed in Europe? And can Cadillac actually build cars that could potentially be better than certain European cars?

Aren't Cadillac's expensive in europe? When I was travelling through Switzerland about 2 years ago, we would see a Chrysler 300 or a Caddy CTS on a rare ocassion, and my european friends would always make fun of it. Buying something like a 300 or a CTS instead of a Passat or E-Class is seen as idiotic in europe from my understanding, and I would agree. Not that I'd buy a Passat or an E-class. With gas these days, I'm looking more at improving the fuel of my own Lancer by weight reduction and if ever buying a 2nd car, getting something really lightweight like a MR2 or Celica for the weekends.

The people that can afford a CTS-V in europe will most likely just buy an AMG or ///M instead. Everyone else will just cringe at the big displacement.

 

[Tornado]

So therefore they would have to take a european approach. Small engines with increasing frugality in mind.

Are you making up excuses to try and make the CTS look worse than it is? One of the main direct competitors to this thing weighs as much as a house, has AWD and a twin turbo V10 engine. The other two have revvy V10s and big monster V8 engines. Frugality my ass. This is a performance sedan designed and sold in the middle of an epic horsepower war in the segment. No one who buys these cares about frugality.
Furthermore, Cadillac will happily sell you a version powered by a 300 BHP V6 that identical mileage to all of its competitors, besting the Mercedes alternative and having quite a bit more power than the Audi alternative.

 

[niky]

(I personally rate the CTS higher than the C-class when it comes to the interior)

Cheap shot! The dashboard buttons on the C-Class aren't anywhere near as good as on a Honda! Cheap shot!

One of our magazines here, Car and Driver, is notorious for nailing some of the fastest 0-60 times around, almost always besting the manufacturer's quoted time. I believe that's where that 4.1 came from.

Which means it can only be compared to C&D's times for the CTS-V (coming soon, I hope).

---

Cadillac's problem in Europe is the lack of image. Fuel economy? Not an issue with Cadillac offering diesels in their European line-up. And, as Toro says, amongst the CTS-V's classmates, fuel economy isn't a realistic goal. It's all image. Cadillac's initial offerings in Europe didn't suit European tastes... and doing cheap rebadges with the Caddy brand doesn't work, either. The image conscious are too smart to fall for that for too long (look at what happened to the X-Type...)

Caddy needs solid product, solid design and it needs to develop a reputation before breaking into the European market. Which will take time.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I gave the CTS-V the benefit of the doubt since it does have some good performance figures. And to be honest... I gave it some benefit of the doubt because I usually feel there's an unwritten rule on GTPlanet: never hate on American cars, or you may be liable to get lynched by certain members. Either this, or always never give Japanese cars any love. That would be the other.

No no, it's the other way around. Never put the hate on Japanese cars, and never compliment an American car it risk of being flamed.

Cheap shot! The dashboard buttons on the C-Class aren't anywhere near as good as on a Honda! Cheap shot!



Which means it can only be compared to C&D's times for the CTS-V (coming soon, I hope).

---

Cadillac's problem in Europe is the lack of image. Fuel economy? Not an issue with Cadillac offering diesels in their European line-up. And, as Toro says, amongst the CTS-V's classmates, fuel economy isn't a realistic goal. It's all image. Cadillac's initial offerings in Europe didn't suit European tastes... and doing cheap rebadges with the Caddy brand doesn't work, either. The image conscious are too smart to fall for that for too long (look at what happened to the X-Type...)

Caddy needs solid product, solid design and it needs to develop a reputation before breaking into the European market. Which will take time.

I agree with most of what you said (while not having an opinion on the rest). If you want to compare 0-60 times it's got to be done by the same driver, or quote factory times. And this is indeed a halo car, fuel economy is irrelevent, performance is. I would assume that the M5 has done a lap of the 'Ring? Well here, the CTS-V is the fastest sedan meaning that despite the weight (expected of a sedan) it can corner, it can accelerate, it's the no.1 sedan at the moment in terms of outright performance.

This would be a biased opinion, but I'd take a Cadillac over a European any day. Even better is Autoblog has just posted that the HFV6 (Alloytec in Australia, we get way cooler names.) will get a 6% power increase next update. That means nearly 250kw out of a Nauturally Aspirated V6 assuming the DI V6 gets that same 6% increase. They're also talking improved economy. That's a car I'd own over anything else in the world.

 

[Jay]

No no, it's the other way around. Never put the hate on Japanese cars, and never compliment an American car it risk of being flamed.

It happens both ways, just doesn't seem that way when most (or mostly) are on one side.

I would assume that the M5 has done a lap of the 'Ring?

Probably more than any other moder car.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

It happens both ways, just doesn't seem that way when most (or mostly) are on one side.




Probably more than any other moder car.

Gotta love automotive rivalry. More fierce than any other rivalry in the world, to the point of tension at times.

So the CTS-V will indeed lap quicker than an M5 then. I wouldn't be surprised of the W427 does as well. I also wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't. It could go either way.

 

[///M-Spec]

Cadillacs been around a lot longer, they just haven't been doing the sport sedan thing very long.

Cadillac (1902) is 11 years older than BMW (1913). For all intents and purposes, they're about the same age.

GM accomplished their goal of beating the M5

Nissan accomplished their goal of beating the 911 Turbo too. But C/D thinks the M3, which was way out of its league, is a better car than either of them... and you agreed with the BMW jock sniffers on that one.

I think the jury is still out on this. And when it returns, I think it's going to come down to individual preferences and choices.

I also think that when you look at cars that cost well over $50, $60k, there really aren't any bad ones.


M

 

[Jay]

:

So the CTS-V will indeed lap quicker than an M5 then.

I wouldn't know, I haven't seen any proof of that yet (not that I've looked)

 

[YSSMAN]

I think the jury is still out on this. And when it returns, I think it's going to come down to individual preferences and choices.

Quite right, and I have driven neither the new 5er (in any form) or the CTS (in any form), so all I can do is go on what I've read, and what I can tell just by sitting in them. That being said... It almost seems more likely that I'd pick the BMW for the "natural" feel anyway.

And no, I won't take back the preference towards the M3 either...

I also think that when you look at cars that cost well over $50, $60k, there really aren't any bad ones.

Pretty much. Well, unless you're buying an Audi (that isn't a S5), then you made a bad decision.

(ha!)

 

[McLaren]

So the CTS-V will indeed lap quicker than an M5 then. I wouldn't be surprised of the W427 does as well. I also wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't. It could go either way.

It might going by the lap times given of both cars. But the M5 may unofficially, be even faster than the current lap time we have of it by a lot. Sabine has surely learned a few tricks around the 'Ring in the M5, and could probably pilot the car into a faster time bracket.

 

[forza2.0]

Are you making up excuses to try and make the CTS look worse than it is? One of the main direct competitors to this thing weighs as much as a house, has AWD and a twin turbo V10 engine. The other two have revvy V10s and big monster V8 engines. Frugality my ass. This is a performance sedan designed and sold in the middle of an epic horsepower war in the segment. No one who buys these cares about frugality.
Furthermore, Cadillac will happily sell you a version powered by a 300 BHP V6 that identical mileage to all of its competitors, besting the Mercedes alternative and having quite a bit more power than the Audi alternative.

lol

Did I mention the CTS-V? No.
Do most europeans want 300hp? No
Will someone who can afford a AMG, M or RS go for a CTS-V instead. Maybe one or two but on the majority no.

I was talking about caddy as a company. I was not talking about the CTS or cts-v alone as that was not the question asked.

The majority of people now buy diesels. The majority of people are happy with having under 200hp. The majority of people want to buy a vehichle with cheap car tax which means low emission. And most of all people want as much MPG as possible.

In the US you guys do alot of highway miles. In europe we dont as much. In europe we have small roads and alot of traffic. Alot of stop and start. The average big american engine (insert 300bhp V6 here) will drink more fuel in such conditions than the european competiton. Especially when its nearly as big as a yacht and weighs more than queen latifahs big ole ass.

*Majority of people being europeans

 

[JCE]

Pretty much. Well, unless you're buying an Audi (that isn't a S5), then you made a bad decision.

(ha!)

I hope that's sarcasm on your part.

 

[YSSMAN]

Its a bit tongue-in-cheek, but yes, many of you are well aware of my strange distaste for all things Audi despite loving VW (and their Porsche overlords) to pieces.

===

Oh, and Forza2.0:

I'd suggest you do a bit of research on the Caddy. They've got a 2.9L diesel V6 variant coming soon, not to mention the wagon and coupe as well. Cadillac is adapting to the European market, and in the end, we reap the benefits in the US. If we're lucky, maybe we'll see a 2.0T version coming soon too.

Maybe not...

 

[forza2.0]

Its a bit tongue-in-cheek, but yes, many of you are well aware of my strange distaste for all things Audi despite loving VW (and their Porsche overlords) to pieces.

===

Oh, and Forza2.0:

I'd suggest you do a bit of research on the Caddy. They've got a 2.9L diesel V6 variant coming soon, not to mention the wagon and coupe as well. Cadillac is adapting to the European market, and in the end, we reap the benefits in the US. If we're lucky, maybe we'll see a 2.0T version coming soon too.

Maybe not...

Big diesels are not in huge demand in europe. Tha majority of diesels sold are around the 2 litre mark give or take .2 of a capacity.


As for VW if it wasnt for the golf god help them. The rest of the range is extremely boring. VAG have therefore realised they can slot SEAT into the american market hoping to get SEAT network up and running in the states by 2010.

 

[niky]

That's like saying that more private owners (globally) buy small cars than trucks and SUVs.

Within its market, it would be decent, but yes, Caddy will need a 2.0 or 2.5d option to be competitive.

 

[forza2.0]

That's like saying that more private owners (globally) buy small cars than trucks and SUVs.

Within its market, it would be decent, but yes, Caddy will need a 2.0 or 2.5d option to be competitive.

well europe is now the worlds biggest automotive market and yes we buy more small cars than trucks or SUV's. Even what we call big would be considered small in the states though.

 

[niky]

Not small. Medium sized... maybe.

 

[Joey D]

Since Brad is MIA due to killing his internet dead....

European hunting season cancelled: Cadillac CTS-V not crossing Atlantic
Cadillac's wicked new CTS-V may have the likes of the BMW M5 in its sights, but it appears that it won't be hunting down the best that Munich, Stuttgart and Ingolstadt have to offer on their Autobahn home turf. According to Top Gear, Caddy's U.S. minders don't think the V's blown V8 is good for Europe, so the car apparently won't be making the boat trip across the Atlantic. Unfortunate, as it would have been interesting to see how America's ultimate muscle sedan would have fared when euro journos pitted it against all the hometown favorites. Sure, we'll see comparos done Stateside, but it would have been fun to see Cadillac put on the "away" jersey to try and add some luster to that long-tarnished "Standard of the World" mantle against Europe's top performance machines -- including the ones we don't see here, like the new Audi RS6.

 

[Jim Prower]

Gotta love automotive rivalry. More fierce than any other rivalry in the world, to the point of tension at times.

'hem.

Cold. War.

As to the post above...Happy, now, Forza? you can still sit high on your VAG throne and never, ever know how good the CTS-V is. or isn't.