The Debut of LMP Race Cars

  • Thread starter Thread starter JohnBM01
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OK guys, here is why at LeMans the Bentley Boys ran as LMGTP, and Sebring was LMP900. LeMans is run under the ACO's Sporting Regulations. Last year the ACO had LMGTP as a seperate class and they were entered as such.

Now here is where the differance is, Sebring is sanctioned by IMSA and runs under the IMSA Code, which is a different ruleset then the ACO's. Here is this years wording for the rule:

12.1.1 CAR ELIGIBILITY
“LM”P 900, “LM”GTP, “LM”P 675, “LM”GTS and “LM”GT cars as defined in the ACO Specifications
“2004” are eligible to compete. Unless otherwise specified, “LM”P900 “LM”GTP will be grouped in the
same class with “LM”P1. “LM”675 cars with composite chassis will be grouped with “LM” P1 and
“LM”675 cars with aluminum honey-comb or tube frame chassis will be grouped with “LM”P2.

Last years wording was partly the same under the IMSA code although at the time composite chassis cars ran with as 675's.

The Panoz was an amazing sounding beast, if you never got the chance to hear it live then you missed out bigtime. Luckily I got to hear it for 4 years.
 
Originally posted by The359
Even if they had the rights to Dome's prototype cars, the V12 LM Evolution and S101, doesn't mean you'd have the rights to the teams that run (Team Goh, Kondo Racing, and Racing For Holland), let alone their sponsers.

I doubt that Gran Turismo would run a "naked" car, especially since it hasn't been done before.
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If PD got the license to say the Dome S101, they can use that car, if they get the license for one of the teams say Kondo racing, they get to use the Dome S101 in the Team Kondo racin colours, that includes all sponsors. They don't need to ask each sponsor for permition to put the logo on the car in the game. Just the license for the team bearing the logo's. If you want to think about it logically, why do you think evey game that uses real race cars gets all the logo's on, inclding Race driver 2 which is on X-Box and CM has said if it comes out onPS2 it will have to be a lesser game. The games producers they don't all manage to contact each company and get permission to use the logo on a car they have already agreed to have their logo on. Besides it's extra advertising for the companies.
 
I'm saying that getting the Domes in will be harder. Getting something like a Nissan R89C in is easy because the manufacturer of the car AND the team are the same entity, so you only need permission from 1 area. With the Dome cars however you'd need seperate permission from Dome and another permission from the team that ran that car.
 
Originally posted by RUI
What's the story on the Lancia Rally Car from GT3/4p, then?
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You mean the fact that the Lancie Delta HF Integrale Rally car doesn't say Martini on it? Simple, they can't allow alcohol sponsership in games.
 
You know, I'd wondered a few times why it was so but just never bodered to search for it

So that's why... Sad in a way, but understandable in this world we live in


learned a few things you you today 359!
 
I once heard a song from JPOP artist RUI called "Tsuki no Shizuku" once. Maybe seeing your screen name, reminded me of this good song.

Anyhow, back to business. Two of the more popular sportscar entities nowadays are Lola and Riley and Scott (or in Rolex Sport Cars, I think it's just Riley. But I don't know the skinny on that). Neither car won Le Mans, but for competitors that don't have access to the big-money LMP1s, Lola and R&S were good choices. I, of course, remember the Banana Joe's Lola in Rolex and ALMS racing series here in America. I've thought those R&S Mk 3s were pretty ugly (now the "ugly" title gone to those Pilbeams), but at least it's still a good car. And of course, Team Dyson was a team I best recalled for the R&S Mk 3.

In mentioning LMP cars, don't forget the LMP2s. I actually like all the Sportscars, especially like those in FIA Sportscar. If you have favorites, maybe they'll make it into GT4.

And by the way, Pro Race Driver had one-size-fits-all paintschemes for cars, and most of them were fictional. But they could have done a better job for the fictional cars, including the ugliest Dodge Viper rendition I've ever seen. Just look at the front of that thing!
 
There's some 17 year old who lives near me who has a giant, white widebody front bumper on a narrow blue Celica, it's the stupidest thing I've seen in a while.

I'd love to see more of the LM cars like the Panoz and the Dome. When you think of chassis manufacturers, Lola is a giant, it'd be good to have them represented.
 
As an FYI, there is no longer Lola's or R&S's running Rolex, Grand-Am will not allow those cars to run in favor of the Daytona Prototypes. DP's are much slower then what any type of open cockpit sportsracer could do. American Spirit Racing fields a couple of R&S Mk III's in ALMS competition with engines from Elan.
 
DP's are not slower than hat any open cockpit sportsracers. Theres nothing to stop a class being made with lower Bhp liits to give a more ever power to weight ratio and then give then restrictions on aerodynamics to stop them being superior in that way.
 
Actually you are wrong about that, in 2000 the pole time for Dyson was a 1:41 and change with a Ferrari 333SP right behind in the low 42's. This year, the fastest DP ran a 1:50 in qualifying.
 
No, I'm not wrong, I said theres nothing to stop them making the open cockpit racers competitive. You said, "DP's are much slower then what any type of open cockpit sportsracer could do", thats not true. Anyway I don't want to get into a debate over this, it's off topic.
 
Yeah there is, Grand-Am has to want to do it... and they don't. So my premise stands, a DP cannot go faster at Daytona then any of the open cockpit sportsracers. In fact that will stand because I doubt we'll see any open cockpit sportsracers running at Daytona other then the classes in SCCA club racing. Its too bad, I would love to see what an LMP could run. Be interesting to see if they could get down to the Group C/GTP times.
 
Do you know how many differnt classes, types and series the phrase "any type of open cockpit sportsracer" includes. There plenty and some of them are slower than DP's, some faster, they just don't all run together in the same series.
 
Let me rephrase then, how about they won't go faster then any world class sportscar at Daytona? I would seriously hope you wouldn't think a 1.5L sportsracer would go faster then a DP but I clarified it for you.
 
I can agree with that.

I don't think I've seen you here before, so welcome to GTP if I aven't already done so.
 
No you haven't, thanks for the welcome. I searched around for GT3 forums and found this one, mostly gleening info since I just got the game. I signed up to respond to the questions posed on this thread on why LMGTP's were classified as LMGTP at LeMans and LMP900's at Sebring.
 
This update has no relevance to GT4, but if you're watching the 24 Hours of Le Mans, that Playstation/Gran Turismo 4 race prototype should be out there racing around the Circuit de la Sarthe. Some of the other prototypes should get special consideration as well. They may make it into GT5. So if you have a chance to catch coverage of this great race, have fun. Meanwhile, have a good time!
 
The 787B featured in the game was in the IMSA GTP class, here a bit of history :

When the Mazda 787B won Le Mans in 1991, it was in the end of the Group C-days. That year, the World Sportscar (WSC) rules were ratified by the FISA. In this categorie, the engine was limited to 3500 cc and Peugeot, Mercedes and Jaguar had cars ready for it.
But as nobody expected that these cars should survive the 24 hours race, Jag and Mercedes opted for their motballed V12 and V8 turbo's, which had to comply with a 1000 Kg weight limit (at Peugeot's insistence, as they used their new 3500 cc-engine).
The Mazda 787B was not a Group C-car, but drove in the IMSA GTP class. Here, the weight limit was originally set at 880 Kg. But Mazdaspeed boss Takayoshi Ohashi politely informed FISA this limit was not acceptable. With Nissan and Toyota waiting to enter the Sportscar world, the Automobile Club de l'Ouest wanted to keep a Japanese presence and agreed to drop the weight limit in the IMSA GTP class (a categorie with Mazda as the only contender) to 830 Kg.
This made the car competitive enough to win the race unexpectedly.
(I read this in an article in the magazine « Motorsport », Nr 6, June 2001)

Or how a (weight) difference can be made possible by rules instead of technical advance.
Too bad that Polyphony Digital doesn't illustrate this in the game. It gives us a wrong idea of the context in which the cars appeared in real life. I was very interested to read that the Panoz in GT3 complies with the FIA GT rules and the other GT1 cars with the specific Le Mans rules.
 
The Panoz GTR-1 and Le Mans 'GT1' cars were built to virtually identical regs.

Although the Group C cars had huge power, 750-1000BHP+, they are not as quick as the current LMP cars.

The Group C cars could qualify with huge boost/Power, but in the race they ran much, much slower.

The current LMP cars however have restrictors limiting power to aroung 650BHP in qualifying and race spec.

At Le Mans a Group C car may have run 12+ seconds of its qualifying pace wereas the current LMP cars can run within 5 seconds of qualifying pace for 24 Hours.

A current LMP car can run around 3.30 at Le Mans, compared to a Group C car which would have done around 3.35-3.40. Some Group C qualifying specials got down to the 3.30 mark however.

The current LM circuit is also now around 4 seconds slower than when the chicanes were originally put on the Mulsanne straight, due to further track changes.


In an earlier post someone mentioned the pace of the Mclaren F1 GTR compared to the Toyota GT-ONE. Well the orignal short tail F1 GTR qualigied in around 3.52, the long tail F1 GTR around 3.45 and the Toyota GT-ONE in 3.29!
 

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