The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archiveFormula 1 

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It's widely-reported and not disputed (example).

That`s means absolutely nothing.
Only an official source does.

Here's a fuller explanation of the accident from F1 themselves; link.

No, you are lying, that is the explanation from McLaren, not F1 themselves.

With the greatest of respect I suggest that you don't know what you're talking about (...) Why might you think a car might only hit sideways-on at low speed?

Where I said that?

I said that the car should have touched the wall at low speed, because the lack of damage, nothing to do with the speed a car can hit a wall.
 
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No, you are lying, that is the explanation from McLaren, not F1 themselves.

Repeated by Formula 1. From somebody who doesn't understand the line between any kind of opinion and fact (as you amply demonstrated) I'm not sure I accept "liar" from you.

The threshold for the G-light is 18g. Do you dispute that it activated? For now you could perhaps consider the effect of a 62kg brain inside the skull?

Follow that by explaining how a car is in an 18+g accident without leaving any sign other than wheel marks on the wall? It should be quite obvious...
 
Not sure if this has been covered but Van der Gaarde is reported to be taking legal action against Sauber for failing to provide him with the 2015 race seat that he says he was promised.

He's also reported to be a possible runner for Manor's second seat... but I seem to recall that drivers who take legal action against their teams aren't often seen again.
 
Not sure if this has been covered but Van der Gaarde is reported to be taking legal action against Sauber for failing to provide him with the 2015 race seat that he says he was promised.

He's also reported to be a possible runner for Manor's second seat... but I seem to recall that drivers who take legal action against their teams aren't often seen again.

That was my first thought as well.

But then, he's hardly been a superstar and without this drive he's likely never to get another, so I figure he's rolling the dice and hoping that he has a Maldonado-at-Spain moment to make anyone want to hire an unspectacular litigious driver.

Hopefully the door doesn't hit him on the arse on the way out. :P
 
Well, security maybe.
If this happened because of some kind of fail of the car (not necessary the infamous shock that a lot of people think) because we all know how many problem they had, and they're hiding the fact for, you know, reputation maybe, if this is some kind of ''new'' problem that other cars can have as well, and Alonso suffered of that kind of strangely bad consequences (for a not-that-terrible crash, if that was the reason, of course) because the car doesn't have enough, or right protection against something.
That's the reason why a lot of people, even big names like Minardi, ask for a complete explanation, imo.

Why so the FIA can find what they did and reveal it to the world to help the image of the FIA and get people interested in another "instertnamehere"-gate scandal that we've had not that long ago.

Um I wouldn't mention Minardi, and deducing the origin you seem to claim under your avatar is seems almost a funny bias that you bring up a countrymen. One especially known for staying slightly relevant to the sport by being controversial and starting rumors (a la RBR running illegal EBD in 2013).

I would agree with @prisonermonkeys that if McLaren were hiding something only to be outed by the FIA, the consequences and bad publicity to a group trying to work their way back to the top would be massive. Also why would the other cars have such an issue, considering they're not Honda powered if there is such an issue, though you originally claimed not necessarily the shock issue, but your post keeps harping on it.

That was my first thought as well.

But then, he's hardly been a superstar and without this drive he's likely never to get another, so I figure he's rolling the dice and hoping that he has a Maldonado-at-Spain moment to make anyone want to hire an unspectacular litigious driver.

Hopefully the door doesn't hit him on the arse on the way out. :P

Even if he won for them it would still be an awful taste in their mouth for many reasons. If he were to win and does get to drive that will be quite an awful dynamic, and makes me wonder why you'd force something like this to happen. Almost like an arranged marriage of sorts but the party that didn't want this (Sauber) aren't going to just flip a switch and be completely supportive and loyal.

It seems desperate really and somewhat sad.
 
I would agree with @prisonermonkeys that if McLaren were hiding something only to be outed by the FIA, the consequences and bad publicity to a group trying to work their way back to the top would be massive.
I don't necessarily think that it's a cover-up. I am sure that they are working with the FIA, and that is the only organisation that they need to work with. It's only an issue if they're hiding something from the FIA. The "controversy" is only coming about because McLaren aren't making everything available to the public, but they have no obligation to do so.

Even if he won for them it would still be an awful taste in their mouth for many reasons. If he were to win and does get to drive that will be quite an awful dynamic, and makes me wonder why you'd force something like this to happen.
VDG has always been like that. I think that he has really tried to position himself as the foremost Dutchman in motorsport. Every time there was a buzz about someone like Robin Frijns or Max Verstappen, a story about van der Garde - which I am sure came from his camp - would follow, linking him to various seats, and usually a more competitive one than anything Frijns or Verstappen was under consideration for. I think that he is really trying to cling to the idea that the grid would be incomplete without him, but hasn't recognised that he had his turn and didn't do anything to deserve another shot. I know every racing driver wants to believe that they are the best, but the likes of van der Garde take things too far.
 
I don't necessarily think that it's a cover-up. I am sure that they are working with the FIA, and that is the only organisation that they need to work with. It's only an issue if they're hiding something from the FIA. The "controversy" is only coming about because McLaren aren't making everything available to the public, but they have no obligation to do so.

I'm not at all saying it is a cover up. What I'm saying is similar to others with reasonable judgement and that is, McLaren aren't hiding anything and if they really were then the FIA would figure it out. So it isn't with in their benefit to hide anything. Nor is it to their benefit to divulge anything more than they would have to with those involved to the public.


VDG has always been like that. I think that he has really tried to position himself as the foremost Dutchman in motorsport. Every time there was a buzz about someone like Robin Frijns or Max Verstappen, a story about van der Garde - which I am sure came from his camp - would follow, linking him to various seats, and usually a more competitive one than anything Frijns or Verstappen was under consideration for. I think that he is really trying to cling to the idea that the grid would be incomplete without him, but hasn't recognised that he had his turn and didn't do anything to deserve another shot. I know every racing driver wants to believe that they are the best, but the likes of van der Garde take things too far.

Exactly, thus why it's now just desperate.
 
Exactly, thus why it's now just desperate.
It's a very unusual move. There has never been a case of a driver successfully launching legal action like this to gain a seat. VDG has never tested the Sauber, and has not lost any money since he way paying for the seat and none of his sponsors appear on the car. Successfully getting the seat would likely put the entire team in jeopardy by invalidating the contracts with Ericsson and/or Nasr, and the team could reasonably park his car and argue that they could not afford to compete. There is no set of circumstances whereby VDG comes out on top.
 
Why so the FIA can find what they did and reveal it to the world to help the image of the FIA and get people interested in another "instertnamehere"-gate scandal that we've had not that long ago.

Um I wouldn't mention Minardi, and deducing the origin you seem to claim under your avatar is seems almost a funny bias that you bring up a countrymen. One especially known for staying slightly relevant to the sport by being controversial and starting rumors (a la RBR running illegal EBD in 2013).

I would agree with @prisonermonkeys that if McLaren were hiding something only to be outed by the FIA, the consequences and bad publicity to a group trying to work their way back to the top would be massive. Also why would the other cars have such an issue, considering they're not Honda powered if there is such an issue, though you originally claimed not necessarily the shock issue, but your post keeps harping on it.

Using the fact that he's italian isn't a fair way to make your opinion better than mine, but ok.
I actually even disagree with his opinion most of the time, i said his name because i was reading a long post he made where he was saying basically the same things. A lot of other ''famous'' countrymen had a different opinion about this story, so what?

Anyway: why? I don't know, we don't know. That was my point.
A lot of things are strange for me, maybe because i'm stupid, maybe because a lack of transparency, i don't know.

I'm not going to continue this, i just wanted to make things clear.
 
Sky Sports are reporting that VDG had an offer of promotion in June last year. They go on to say that arbitration in Switzerland (Sauber's home) has already said that Sauber should retain him (presumably in acceptance that the offer was genuinely made).

That thickens the plot slightly and may end up costing Sauber some money to make him go away...but I can't see it's going to get him into the race seat.
 
That thickens the plot slightly and may end up costing Sauber some money to make him go away...but I can't see it's going to get him into the race seat.
VDG put his "own" money up to secure the seat. His salary would have come out of that. If the money is returned, he has no financial loss as he hasn't competed.
 
VDG put his "own" money up to secure the seat. His salary would have come out of that. If the money is returned, he has no financial loss as he hasn't competed.

True. I'm not supporting him in this, but... if a firm offer was made and if arbitration has already found that to be the case then he may have turned down other offers in anticipation of employment/earnings. Historically that's recompensable in many situations.

I just don't see it being supported in F1 although the arbitrator's decision does, as I said, thicken the plot somewhat. I don't know how legally binding arbitration is in Switzerland - I'd guess from VDG taking action elsewhere that it isn't at all.
 
I don't think Sauber would have terminated the contract without cause. It's an odd one, but it seems to have been tied to Jules Bianchi driving for them. Ericsson and Nasr are said to bring €40 million between them, most of which probably went to Ferrari for the engines, and van der Garde doesn't bring that much. With the loss of Bianchi, the deal with Ferrari ended - though taking Marciello would have offset the cost slightly - so van der Garde's position stopped being feasible. But van der Garde seems to have completely missed out on that. In the worst case scenario, being forced to take van der Garde would lead to Sauber shutting down because they can't afford to compete.
 
I think this as most cases that happen like this will be settled outside court, Sauber will likely have to Refund any money owed to VDG and off he goes.
 
@mustafur, it depends on a) The amount of money being sought (if any IS being sought in lieu of having the race drive) and b) Sauber's willingness to accept some liability. It's a strange situation and I can't think of a precedent in F1.

I don't think Sauber would have terminated the contract without cause. It's an odd one, but it seems to have been tied to Jules Bianchi driving for them. Ericsson and Nasr are said to bring €40 million between them, most of which probably went to Ferrari for the engines, and van der Garde doesn't bring that much. With the loss of Bianchi, the deal with Ferrari ended - though taking Marciello would have offset the cost slightly - so van der Garde's position stopped being feasible. But van der Garde seems to have completely missed out on that. In the worst case scenario, being forced to take van der Garde would lead to Sauber shutting down because they can't afford to compete.

I suspect that Sauber will feel they have a solid case, their lawyers are bound to be bigger-and-better. If Sauber did indeed make an offer than I think they'll be confident in some clause-or-other that allows them to un-offer the seat. If not then Monicha Kalbourne (sp?) could be in ze beeg troubles.

Let's say that VDG does inveigle himself into the race seat - what kind of working relationship would that be? It would be none at all.
 
James Allen explores the possibility of Renault returning as a team in their own right:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/03/does-it-make-sense-for-renault-to-take-over-an-f1-team/

I suspect that Sauber will feel they have a solid case, their lawyers are bound to be bigger-and-better. If Sauber did indeed make an offer than I think they'll be confident in some clause-or-other that allows them to un-offer the seat. If not then Monicha Kalbourne (sp?) could be in ze beeg troubles.
Like I said, I can't imagine that they would have terminated the contract without cause.

Let's say that VDG does inveigle himself into the race seat - what kind of working relationship would that be? It would be none at all.
It's reportedly costing Manor £1 million per race for the 2014-spec Ferrari engines. How much are they charging Sauber for 2015 engines? If VDG gets the seat, the first thing they will do is park the car because it's too expensive.

Launching legal action against a team is pretty much career suicide. No team will want anything to do with VDG again. It happened to Andy Soucek when he had Coloni's GP2 cars impounded a few years ago. The only way that this makes any sense is if VDG is lobbying for the second Manor seat and needs to resolve the situation with Sauber so all the legal ducks are lined up in a row, but if that's the case, why not settle out of court?
 
It happens alot with drivers that leave, I know Bourdais did it with STR when they sacked him mid season and got a settlement outside of court.

VDG has no real possibility of getting into F1 without money, and even that he lacks of compared to others therefore the best he can do is get some money back and leave.
 
the best he can do is get some money back and leave.
He has reportedly said that if the Australian courts rule in favour of Sauber, then he will launch action in Malaysia, and if the Malaysian courts rule in favour of the team, he'll do it again in China and again in Bahrain, and he'll keep doing it until he gets the seat he considers to be rightfully his.
 
He has reportedly said that if the Australian courts rule in favour of Sauber, then he will launch action in Malaysia, and if the Malaysian courts rule in favour of the team, he'll do it again in China and again in Bahrain, and he'll keep doing it until he gets the seat he considers to be rightfully his.
Sounds like the work of someone who wasn't told the word "NO" as a child.
 
Sounds like the work of someone who wasn't told the word "NO" as a child.
He's a bit like that. Like I said, he has always tried to position himself as the foremost Dutch driver in the sport, even though he doesn't have the nous to back it up. I don't think he is someone who hasn't heard the word "no", but rather unable to reconcile the idea that his time has passed or that the grid can survive without him.
 
Can you imagine the Friday morning if he does win his seat? An entire team that wants nothing to do with him, working on a car they don't want him to drive, packed tightly into those tiny garages at Albert Park. While one of the pay drivers that made a portion of the 2015 season a possibility, sits on the side probably forming their own court case to get him back out.

Pay drivers in a World Championship. The 22 "Best" Drivers in the world.

High school in race suits.
 
That is kind of why having loads of Factory Teams can add massive credibility to the driver line up as they rarely pick money over talent, but too many factory teams in itself is less stable due to unpredictable nature of the Directors of each of said company.
 
Can you imagine the Friday morning if he does win his seat? An entire team that wants nothing to do with him, working on a car they don't want him to drive, packed tightly into those tiny garages at Albert Park.
Possibly, which is why it seems so implausible. If van der Garde wins the case, the court cannot force the team to let him out of the pits. They could justifiably argue that because van der Garde replaced a driver who brought substantial funding to the team, that other driver's contract is invalid. Since they would be using the money that driver bought to fund the team, invalidating that contract would mean that they could not spend said money, thus making it too expensive to send van der Garde out.

While one of the pay drivers that made a portion of the 2015 season a possibility, sits on the side probably forming their own court case to get him back out.
It's a funny position because of the relationship between the team and their drivers. Since Ericsson signed first, van der Garde could argue that he should have Nasr's seat, as the team could have conceivably taken him alongside Nasr. But Sauber's primary backer is Banco do Brasil, who are funding Nasr's drive, so van der Garde could target Ericsson's seat. The catch is that it's believed that Ericsson got the seat with an up-front payment, which the team spent developing the C34 chassis and clearing debts, and Ericsson's backers won't want to see him forced aside. So he can't take Ericsson's seat, and nor can he take Nasr's.

The most likely outcome in all of this is that if the court sides with van der Garde, Sauber's cars will be impounded and nobody will get to drive until everything is sorted out. Sauber could possibly call on Ericsson's or Nasr's backers to buy van der Garde out - though it seems he will only accept a seat - but they may simply be able to refund van der Garde, since van der Garde is a pay driver and isn't actually losing anything by missing out on the seat.
 
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