The Formula 1 calendar development threadFormula 1 

twitcher
How is New York the "major market" in the US?

I'm purely guessing, but my guess would be that Southern California is the largest market in the US as far as people interested in racing and motorsports. After that, I would guess Florida, then maybe Arizona/Texas/Nevada, then I would say maybe New York.
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It's not necessarily the amount of fans that make a 'major market'. It's also the world wide marketing abilities, everyone from New York itself to Siberia knows what New York is, so think about the amount of people it could make turning their TVs on for, which of course brings a huge amount of advertising money.
twitcher
It's New York, so your weather window in the summer is much smaller than say Cali.
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The same goes for for many current circuits. It hasn't stopped them yet.
twitcher
If anything, the TriState area needs a world class race facility built within an hour's drive...but not a street circuit.

New York needs Formula E, not Formula 1.
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These two statements don't go together, at all.
 
GTPorsche
Are you serious?

http://www.city-data.com/top1.html
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Wasn't talking about total population...I was referring to racing fans.

Legro
It's not necessarily the amount of fans that make a 'major market'. It's also the world wide marketing abilities, everyone from New York itself to Siberia knows what New York is, so think about the amount of people it could make turning their TVs on for, which of course brings a huge amount of advertising money.
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Fair point about the marketability of New York. I would argue that Miami, LA, and San Fransisco are equally as well known around the world though.

The same goes for for many current circuits. It hasn't stopped them yet.
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. True, but there are only so many events which can be packed into June through September. Texas (or Cali) gives the organizers the option of placing the US GP on the fringes of the schedule as opposed to needing to be in the middle (would probably pair up with Canada)
These two statements don't go together, at all.
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Correct. Which is why they're seperate paragraphs....
 
Which area has more racing fans does not determine which area is a bigger market. There's a reason why New York gets all the world attention, and has more sports teams, etc.
 
twitcher
How is New York the "major market" in the US?
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I never would have expected to have to answer this question, it's the largest city in the United States. It is one of the financial capitals of the world, numerous corporations are headquartered there, celebrities (although not as many as Hollywood) are present, etc.


twitcher
I'm purely guessing, but my guess would be that Southern California is the largest market in the US as far as people interested in racing and motorsports. After that, I would guess Florida, then maybe Arizona/Texas/Nevada, then I would say maybe New York.
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1. Southern California? Maybe, but I only saw 6,000 in the Indycar race at Fontana and the attendance ratings for the Long Beach race are massively inflated.
2. Arizona/Texas/Nevada
Why would anyone want to race in a desert at 120 degrees on a parking lot or a street circuit with all 90 degree corners (western US roads follow mainly the grid format).
3. New York
Down to third, below Texas/Arizona/Nevada? Really?

You're forgetting one the most important markets for open wheel racing here, Indianapolis, IN who are the top markets for the Indy 500 in terms of ratings and attendance due to proximity. With the amount of motorsport fans there, a race in Indy could happen again if the George regime agreed to it.

twitcher
IMO, a Street Circuit in New Jersey / New York is dumb. It's New York, so your weather window in the summer is much smaller than say Cali.
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F1 races in Montreal, which has an even colder climate than New York and an even smaller window for warm weather, so that argument is invalid.

twitcher
The track itself would be another one of those where the location is prime, but the layout is mediocre. There's little to no elevation change, and corners would mostly be similar.
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gp-of-a-track-map-1024x361.jpg

I see some pretty large hills/elevation change there...

twitcher
If anything, the TriState area needs a world class race facility built within an hour's drive...but not a street circuit.
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That would be nice, but who's going to pay for it? Watkins Glen is a few hours away but needs numerous improvements in both safety and amenities.

twitcher
New York needs Formula E, not Formula 1.
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Why not both like Monaco? Where both series are benefitting to exposure.
 
ukfan758
I never would have expected to have to answer this question, it's the largest city in the United States. It is one of the financial capitals of the world, numerous corporations are headquartered there, celebrities (although not as many as Hollywood) are present, etc.
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Not in terms of money living there though... I'd always presumed that the money criterion was what made Austin a "go", I'm not sure New York would match up to parts of California in that respect.
 
twitcher
Fair point about the marketability of New York. I would argue that Miami, LA, and San Fransisco are equally as well known around the world though.
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Although all of them are quite well known, none of them come even close to New York in popularity. People, especially those who live outside the English speaking parts of the world, tend to strongly associate the New York with America.
 
Ugh you guys are picking my words apart too much...just a friendly discussion lol.

For everyone who provided links to New York's population, thank you. I had no idea New York was that big. I guess that on a motorsport forum, there's pretty much zero chance I was using racing fans as the context....

@ukfan758, who cares about the temperature in Texas...that's why you race in the spring or fall, or at night. Just like any other hot destination like Bahrain. I'm also fully aware of Montreal's climate...which is why the race is typically in June/July, and not April or Octobre. A hot race in the US gives organizers the OPTION of running the race is the fringe months, whereas a race in a temperate climate MUST take place in the summer months. Overall this is a minor point, so not much sense in debating it more.


I stand corrected about the elevation change in New Jersey. It has the elevation change, it's just hella gradual.

As far as street circuits go, that's actually not bad...although the back straight really masks how bland the rest of the track is. Passing into the hairpin....maybe maybe maybe one of the 90's, but that's rare in F1.

Who would pay for a new track in New York? I have no idea. Same person who would pay for a track anywhere.


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Legro
Although all of them are quite well known, none of them come even close to New York in popularity. People, especially those who live outside the English speaking parts of the world, tend to strongly associate the New York with America.
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Fair point. I guess as a Canadian, I have somewhat different perspectives on the American Cities. To us, New York is the same as LA, same as Chicago, Miami, Altlanta, San Fransisco, Philly, DC, Detroit etc etc. Having grown up in BC, LA was always held in higher regard than New York (no not just because of Tupac/Biggie :lol:)...part of that might be our complete and utter dislike for the Rangers ('94 Stanley Cup Finals)
 
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@ukfan758, sorry I just thought of this...you mentioned Watkins Glen.

Personally, I would much rather see upgrades to The Glen to bring it in line with modern standards than see a NJ street circuit. Street Circuits are cool and all, but an upgraded Glen would do much more to service all forms of road racing in the Tri State area.
 
twitcher
@ukfan758, sorry I just thought of this...you mentioned Watkins Glen.

Personally, I would much rather see upgrades to The Glen to bring it in line with modern standards than see a NJ street circuit. Street Circuits are cool and all, but an upgraded Glen would do much more to service all forms of road racing in the Tri State area.
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The Glen would have to be completely butchered to make it F1-Ready and the facilities would need to be torn down and completely rebuilt. It would take an American Carlos Slim to make something like that happen... Plus, Watkins Glen is owned by ISC isn't it? So it's off the table right there, because I don't think NASCAR would want an F1 race at one of "Their" tracks...

Honestly, a brand-new circuit built to FIA Grade 1 would make more sense, but as far as layouts go, Port Imperial is pretty good for a street circuit. Too bad there's so much red-tape between the two cities/counties the track runs through that it's probably never going to happen.
 
Pictures from Mexico, one month out:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/...grand-prix-circuit-one-month-before-race-day/

There's also a video of Emerson Fittipaldi driving the circuit. As expected, the section through the stadium isn't great (what's Spanish for "necessary evil"?), but the rest looks like it favours attacking drivers in battle - you have to react really quickly to position yourself for the next corner, and a defensive line will compromise you.
 
TenEightyOne
There will only be 20 events, according to the just-published FIA F1 2016 Sporting Regs.
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20? So that means that Germany isn't added back? Maybe Bernie came to his senses and Baku won't be added? Maybe Bernie has gone insane and Monaco has been axed?
 
Blitz24
20? So that means that Germany isn't added back? Maybe Bernie came to his senses and Baku won't be added? Maybe Bernie has gone insane and Monaco has been axed?
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Well, that's the (several) million dollar question. Bear in mind that Bernie isn't the FIA though...
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Azerbaijan turns out to be a dud. They pulled the same trick last year by adding Korea to the calendar on the same day as the 6H of Spa, to prevent that Alonso & Hulkenberg would sign up for 2 WEC races.

That trick worked for Alonso, but they pulled it too quickly to stop Hulkenberg from doing that. I guess Bernie played it more safely now by adding AZE to the calendar the same day as Le Mans.
 
Fryto
I also see that in case they want to go ahead with 3-car teams to cope with a possible Red Bull debacle, they need a change in the regulations as well.
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Seems unlikely for that to happen now, Bernie is satisfied that a deal has been met. That seems to mean that Renault are on board for another season. That's for the WDC/Design thread though, I guess.
 
Bernie hints at continuing the Latin American expansion, suggesting that the Argentine Grand Prix can be revived, though it's by no means a done deal:

http://m.bbc.com/sport/formula1/34673408

It would be nice, but I doubt it will happen. Argentina doesn't really have any circuits that are up to standard - Termas de Río Hondo is too isolated, Potero de los Funes is both isolated and under-developed, and Buenos Aires is a run-down glorified go-kart track. A street circuit seems like the most obvious option, but the Argentine economy isn't great, so the whole thing is moot.
 
prisonermonkeys
It would be nice, but I doubt it will happen. Argentina doesn't really have any circuits that are up to standard - Termas de Río Hondo is too isolated, Potero de los Funes is both isolated and under-developed, and Buenos Aires is a run-down glorified go-kart track. A street circuit seems like the most obvious option, but the Argentine economy isn't great, so the whole thing is moot.
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This smacks to me of Bernie loudly explaining how many American options he has while preparing to renegotiate a deal with another track in the continent.
 
prisonermonkeys
Bernie hints at continuing the Latin American expansion, suggesting that the Argentine Grand Prix can be revived, though it's by no means a done deal:

http://m.bbc.com/sport/formula1/34673408

It would be nice, but I doubt it will happen. Argentina doesn't really have any circuits that are up to standard - Termas de Río Hondo is too isolated, Potero de los Funes is both isolated and under-developed, and Buenos Aires is a run-down glorified go-kart track. A street circuit seems like the most obvious option, but the Argentine economy isn't great, so the whole thing is moot.
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I'll take it with a grain of salt
 
ukfan758
I'll take it with a grain of salt
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Oh, I will too - but the popularity of the sport in Latin America is undeniable. Sadly, there aren't too many locations that could capitalise on that, but Argentina is definitely one of them. Asia is saturated, and Africa is in no position to host a race, so where else is there to grow the sport? New Zealand?
 
prisonermonkeys
Oh, I will too - but the popularity of the sport in Latin America is undeniable. Sadly, there aren't too many locations that could capitalise on that, but Argentina is definitely one of them. Asia is saturated, and Africa is in no position to host a race, so where else is there to grow the sport? New Zealand?
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Probably back to Europe with affordable deals, then back to anywhere else that drops F1 once Bernie puts the fee up again.
 
I doubt it. Europe will eventually get saturated, even with cuts to sanctioning fees (which would be negligible, seeing as how nearly half of it goes to the teams to cover operating costs). France and Portugal are really the only countries missing a race, but the old Singapore-Malaysia argument applies: when you have a lot of races in close geographic proximity, you're servicing the same population. Even if you drive ticket prices down to make it more affordable, eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns where you can't draw any more audiences. For example, I would love to go to the Australian Grand Prix, but in order to do so, I would need to take the following Monday off work to get home. If a New Zealand Grand Prix were to be started, I'm in the same predicament. Both might be affordable and accessible, but I can only go to one.

Anyway, having masterminded the race in Austin and the revival of Mexico, Tavo Hellmund has his sights set on another project in North America:

http://motorsports.nbcsports.com/2015/10/31/hellmund-working-on-new-gp-project-in-north-america/
 
I don't know - for a few days there, the access roads to the circuit were knee-deep in water. It's definitely force majeure.
 

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