The future of Corvette...

[ShobThaBob]

You know, other than the 5 year period where GM sold the ZR-1, I'm not seeing how the Corvette being serviceable at any one of the thousands upon thousands of Chevrolet dealers in the country is a bad thing.

My dad owns a Corvette Grand Sport. He previously owned a 2006 XLRv and a normal CTS. His biggest gripe is dealing with the atmosphere and customer service customary with a normal 'pededstrian' manufacturer. I don't mean that negatively, but when you go to a premium brand like Lexus, Infiniti, or Cadillac, you expect something a bit more posh. Chevrolet does not provide that, despite the cost of the 'vette being up there. Also, not every Chevrolet dealership has a Corvette Master Mechanic on hand. This should heavily factor into where you get your Z06 or ZR1 serviced. The only dealerships which got ZR1 initial allocation were those who had the CMM available. Other dealerships could only get them through dealer trades.

None of this is a knock on Chevy, but just a statement of reality. In it's own right, the Corvette is very much it's own brand. Some of the partsbin is shared with other models, but the Corvette design team is left very hands off from corporate dictatorship. I think it's that approach which has allowed the Vette to flourish and lose weight and gain power with newer models. Nearly every other sports car in the world is gaining power and gaining weight to make up for it. I don't really know where I was going with that, other than wondering 'what could they do differently that they aren't doing now?' Get an interior designer from Cadillac IMO. The Corvette history has been deeply ingrained with Chevrolet history for too long for it to break off. Hell, the Corvette logo even has a fleur de lis on one of the 2 flags.

 

[geomonkey]

Corvette's cant even begin to be compared to European cars........leafspring suspension?

 

[Tornado]

This should heavily factor into where you get your Z06 or ZR1 serviced. The only dealerships which got ZR1 initial allocation were those who had the CMM available. Other dealerships could only get them through dealer trades.

That was my reasoning for bringing the ZR-1 up...



Though I wasn't aware it applied to the Z06 too.

Corvette's cant even begin to be compared to European cars........leafspring suspension?

Finally, an informed opinion.

 

[ShobThaBob]

The Z06 Carbon package and I think it's the C07 package which add the ZR1 brakes and suspension to the Z06. There are a lot of expensive components added to various packages across the entire range which aren't garden variety GM fair. If you're buying a top of the line sports car like a Z06 or ZR1, you should definitely be aware of who's going to be working on it. The LS3 corvettes no so much, but they're still far from cheap.

Also, the allocation only applied to ZR1s. I was merely talking about being a responsible owner of a Z06.

 

[TheCracker]

The Z06 Carbon package and I think it's the C07 package which add the ZR1 brakes and suspension to the Z06. There are a lot of expensive components added to various packages across the entire range which aren't garden variety GM fair. If you're buying a top of the line sports car like a Z06 or ZR1, you should definitely be aware of who's going to be working on it. The LS3 corvettes no so much, but they're still far from cheap.

Also, the allocation only applied to ZR1s. I was merely talking about being a responsible owner of a Z06.

Are ZR1 brakes any more complicated than Z06, 'standard' Vette or even Aveo brakes?

 

[ShobThaBob]

They're enzo brakes dude.

 

[TheCracker]

Are Enzo brakes inherently any more complex than a Chevy Aveo's?

 

[Dennisch]

They're enzo brakes dude.

Just because they are carbon brakes, doesn't mean it a totally different system.
Still a disc, caliper and pads. Oh and brake fluid.

 

[ZohsixGT5]

Plus a lil 'Mercan genuty.

 

[ShobThaBob]

Are Enzo brakes inherently any more complex than a Chevy Aveo's?

The more components/features something has, the more things that can go wrong. List the differences between Enzo brakes and Aveo brakes, all of those features/additions are things that the mechanic must be knowledgable of in order to A - not screw something up and B - know the signs to look for that something is screwed up.

So to answer your question, yes. Enzo brakes are inherently more complex than Aveo brakes.

 

[TheCracker]

The more components/features something has, the more things that can go wrong. List the differences between Enzo brakes and Aveo brakes, all of those features/additions are things that the mechanic must be knowledgable of in order to A - not screw something up and B - know the signs to look for that something is screwed up.

So to answer your question, yes. Enzo brakes are inherently more complex than Aveo brakes.

You haven't answered the question. Explain how 'Enzo brakes' are more complex than the brakes on any other car. What other components/features do they have that make them so special?

 

[ShobThaBob]

More pads, more pistons, not GM partsbin, more sensors (instead of no sensors,) and simply more components that must be examined to insure there's nothing wrong with them. If the job solely centered around examination and not mechanical work, it would still be more complex simply because there's a lot more there to work with.

 

[Slash]

Would be just as stupid as taking the Mustang and making it separate from Ford as it's own brand.

Oh the uproar that would cause....

You haven't answered the question. Explain how 'Enzo brakes' are more complex than the brakes on any other car. What other components/features do they have that make them so special?

They aren't lol

 

[Mac K]

My dad owns a Corvette Grand Sport. He previously owned a 2006 XLRv and a normal CTS. His biggest gripe is dealing with the atmosphere and customer service customary with a normal 'pededstrian' manufacturer. I don't mean that negatively, but when you go to a premium brand like Lexus, Infiniti, or Cadillac, you expect something a bit more posh. Chevrolet does not provide that, despite the cost of the 'vette being up there. Also, not every Chevrolet dealership has a Corvette Master Mechanic on hand. This should heavily factor into where you get your Z06 or ZR1 serviced. The only dealerships which got ZR1 initial allocation were those who had the CMM available. Other dealerships could only get them through dealer trades.

None of this is a knock on Chevy, but just a statement of reality. In it's own right, the Corvette is very much it's own brand. Some of the partsbin is shared with other models, but the Corvette design team is left very hands off from corporate dictatorship. I think it's that approach which has allowed the Vette to flourish and lose weight and gain power with newer models. Nearly every other sports car in the world is gaining power and gaining weight to make up for it. I don't really know where I was going with that, other than wondering 'what could they do differently that they aren't doing now?' Get an interior designer from Cadillac IMO. The Corvette history has been deeply ingrained with Chevrolet history for too long for it to break off. Hell, the Corvette logo even has a fleur de lis on one of the 2 flags.

Posh? People actually care about this? No offense, but When is the last time you actually heard of a mechanic messing up a Vette? People at those places are trained mechanics, they might not get paid a whole lot or have some big fancy title, but they aren't stupid, atleast when it comes to their job.

Corvette's cant even begin to be compared to European cars........leafspring suspension?

I wasn't aware people were still living in the 90s.. How about a little research before posting an ignorant comment

 

[Zenith]

I've never heard of a Nissan GT-R owner complain that his car didn't have its own brand and I've never heard anyone think less of the car's performance because it's from Nissan. Up until this point, that applied to the Corvette as well.

Nissan and especially Chevrolet benefit from having the GT-R and Corvette in their lineup. I'm not sure why anyone would think it would be a good idea to risk sales just so some owners can feel like their car is a bit more special than it is.

 

[ShobThaBob]

Posh? People actually care about this? No offense, but When is the last time you actually heard of a mechanic messing up a Vette? People at those places are trained mechanics, they might not get paid a whole lot or have some big fancy title, but they aren't stupid, atleast when it comes to their job.

The differences between a Corvette Master Mechanic and normal mechanic are vast, and the CMM is compensated very well. People get paid based on what their knowledge and proficiencies are. Do you want someone who gets paid to work on 15-30k dollar cars to also have to service your 45-100k vehicle? I don't think so. If they were experienced enough to get a job making more money being an Audi or BMW mechanic, they'd be there making more money. A high volume Chevy or Ford dealership is where you go right after getting your certifications.

Also, the dealership treatment goes a long way toward customer satisfaction when you have a lot of cars rotating in and out of your garage. If you own your vehicle for 6-10 years, I can see why you might be scoffing at this. Otherwise, the amenities provided, ease of communication with servicepeople, the loaners they provide, the ease of getting those loaners, and half a dozen other things I'm forgetting are all very important when you're talking about customer satisfaction.

At normal car dealerships, they're like order takers. You bring your car in, and you're good to go. At more premium dealerships, they have food prepared, many drinks available, your loaner waiting for you - it feels a lot more personalized and service oriented instead of an assembly line. People who can afford a Corvette are very likely accustomed to or familiar with that type of service. You very likely won't be getting that at most Chevy dealerships. Certainly not the one I worked at.

 

[Kievit]

The Corvette already is an independant brand in Europe since the adition of Deawoo to the Chevrolet family (2005). I can see why, but honestly it dousn't change a thing. Besides, everyone I know has always referred to it as a Corvette instead of a Chevrolet anyway.

 

[McLaren]

They're enzo brakes dude.

I don't know why people think this is something amazing.

First off, they're not Enzo brakes. They're just the same size carbon ceramics Ferrari had built for the Enzo by Brembo in 2001. Secondly, those are the brakes at the rear of the ZR1.
The brakes at the front are ceramics built off the same "design/mold/whatever" Ferrari had made for the FXX, except smaller, in 2005.

Now take this into account. The rear brakes of the ZR1 are technically 7 years old in design since they are supposed to be the "exact same brakes on the Enzo" & the front discs were 4 years old from when the FXX first got them.

We're now a decade from when the Enzo first came out. In that time, several cars have adopted optional carbon ceramics, enough for every manufacturer that offers them in some form or another to know exactly how to work on them as easy as they do any other brakes.

 

[ShobThaBob]

It's certainly not anything astounding or ground breaking, but it's not like they're small rotor single piston Aveo brakes, either.

 

[McLaren]

It's certainly not anything astounding or ground breaking, but it's not like they're small rotor single piston Aveo brakes, either.

I don't think anyone said they were, but they're still brakes at their core & I doubt the way they are serviced is all that different from even the 6-piston Brembos serviced on the ZL1.

They're probably just extra careful with the ceramics.

 

[ShobThaBob]

I was just reading around the net a few min ago and stumbled across a Chevy dealership guy explaining how they had to get a ZR1 xferred to his dealership because the one they had it at first couldn't change the wiper blade motor. They couldn't get to it or couldn't replace it. They also didn't have a master mechanic there, so they got no help from GM. It's really hard to say what all the differences in the cars are.

 

[vfrmaverick]

Lots of dumb comments in this thread about these cars. Firstly, as having worked on brakes in a Z06, I can say that yes they are much more complex than brakes on an aveo. I dont even want to think about a Zr1. Second, to the talks about the enzo brakes being 10 years old, guess what the Zr1 outbrakes 99% of sports cars out there. Leafspring suspension? It runs with 99% of sportscars out there (so long is there isnt an idiot behind the wheel). And it does all this as one of the cheapest around, low maintenance, easy to find parts and great aftermarket. Why is anyone here even bothering to go against this combination?

Its amazing what fanboyism does.

 

[ZohsixGT5]

Thank you.

 

[Zenith]

*completely missing the point of half a dozen posts*

Its amazing what fanboyism does.

Indeed.

 

[McLaren]

Second, to the talks about the enzo brakes being 10 years old, guess what the Zr1 outbrakes 99% of sports cars out there.

Too bad I never said it didn't. Perhaps read all the comments you're referring to in 1 little rant before making a dumb post yourself.

Thanks for playing.

 

[vfrmaverick]

Indeed.

Considering im a porsche fanboy till death, its amazing what fanboyism and stupidity does.

And mclaren, so youre just arguing in this thread for the sake of arguing then. I believe thats one of the requirements for trolling. Considering you ignored the brakes being more complicated part. Yo know, since i actually have experience with these.

 

[McLaren]

Considering im a porsche fanboy till death, its amazing what fanboyism and stupidity does.

His point still stands, then.

And mclaren, so youre just arguing in this thread for the sake of arguing then. I believe thats one of the requirements for trolling.

Or perhaps you're the one taking posts out of context to sound like you really know what goes on behind these cars.

I believe that's one of the requirements for irony.

 

[vfrmaverick]

His point still stands, then.

Or perhaps you're the one taking posts out of context to sound like you really know what goes on behind these cars.

I believe that's one of the requirements for irony.

Ignoring the parts of posts that should shut you up yet attacking selectively. yep, trolling it is. Thanks for playing.

 

[McLaren]

yep, trolling it is. Thanks for playing.

The typical post of one who not only replies the same comment back to the person (sign of a lack of creativity; it's ok, not everyone is blessed) , but also unable to actually come up with an actual argument of sort after being called out for his own "dumb comments".

Irony rearing it's head again as well; I'm the troll yet we're the one making dumb comments because of fanboyism & stupidity. Pot meet kettle, kiddo.

Edit* Tell me what part is supposed to shut me up again? Because nowhere in my original post did I say there was anything wrong with the ZR1 brakes being 7 & 5 years old respectively, only that there was nothing amazing about the ZR1 having Enzo-supplied brakes; lots of sports cars these days have a carbon ceramic brake as standard/optional. Nowhere did I even mention stopping distances.

I'm actually curious to know the answer. Maybe you'll actually redeem yourself if you can point it out.

 

[vfrmaverick]

The typical post of one who not only replies the same comment back to the person (sign of a lack of creativity; it's ok, not everyone is blessed) , but also unable to actually come up with an actual argument of sort after being called out for his own "dumb comments".

Irony rearing it's head again as well; I'm the troll yet we're the one making dumb comments because of fanboyism & stupidity. Pot meet kettle, kiddo.

Sorry 'kiddo', but as ive stated im a porsche fanboy and take my hat off to the undeniable advantage corvettes have. And now taking this as a way on personal attacks. Youre a fun one, i hope your 27k posts havent been like this. Otherwise id like to know who you paid off to stay around.

Fact stands in just about every argument the corvettes have shown why they are world class performance cars. All youve done is argue about the job of a mechanic. To which i answered by saying yes it is harder to change brakes on a high performance car than an econobox.