The future of sim racing

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Plus like...how do you suggest iRacing operate as a business model?
As a long time iRacing subscriber I wish they would ditch their current Amazon Prime model (subs and content) and go to full Netflix model - subscription only.
 
429
United States
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There's too much focus on physics improvements and not enough on the details.

#1 - The human element. The driver's shouldnt be faceless clones hiding behind a helmet. Let us create our drivers, male and female avatars and ideally give us a NBA 2K face scan to add us into the game.

They've finally added marshalls to the side of many tracks but they are so robotic. Why arent they walking around? In an old F1 sim they would actually walk out onto the track and push your car out of sand traps etc. Why don't they at times watch the cars go by? Why dont they react when you crash into the barrier right in front of them at 200 mph? Is it that hard to make them not look like robots? It's the little things that add up to make the experience more realistic. When there is a crash I want to see a wrecker/tractor drive out to the car with a safety crew and take care of the damaged vehicle. It's little details like this that continually get overlooked that take away from the realism and immersion.

#2 - The business side of racing is completely missing. Look at Fifa or Madden NFL. Negotiating contracts with players, earning money for your franchise to improve the stadium or build a new one etc etc, all of this is in these games and has been for years. The same things are in motorsport - drivers negotiate contracts, team headquarters are upgraded and expanded, etc. Why is the business side of racing completely absent from almost every racing game? It seems like this is in the F1 games now, but that's about it. Besides, I doubt it's anywhere near as advanced or deep as the career mode in Madden NFL
The race begins when the race car drivers put on their helmets and it ends when they takes it off that’s how simple racing is.

You have a point for making gamers happy they are the future for better sim racing . The difference between team sports and motor sports racing is team mates are needed to win . The pit crew is only their for the driver to start and finish a race for a win.
 
20,909
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The race begins when the race car drivers put on their helmets and it ends when they takes it off that’s how simple racing is.

You have a point for making gamers happy they are the future for better sim racing . The difference between team sports and motor sports racing is team mates are needed to win . The pit crew is only their for the driver to start and finish a race for a win.
Have you.....actually watched any real motorsports? This is an unbelieably bad take that I'd love for you to put to a car designer, mechanic, or strategist, for example.
 
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fordlaser

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The race begins when the race car drivers put on their helmets and it ends when they takes it off that’s how simple racing is.

You have a point for making gamers happy they are the future for better sim racing . The difference between team sports and motor sports racing is team mates are needed to win . The pit crew is only their for the driver to start and finish a race for a win.
Motor sport is a team sport.
 
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429
United States
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Motor sport is a team sport.
I will try to keep this simple . You go out and find a race car or any vehicle you want to race in and take it to a race track of your choice set it up for your first race. Then tell me if motor sports is a team sport. You have no clue what it takes to get your first race on a real world track with other drivers.
 
20,909
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I will try to keep this simple . You go out and find a race car or any vehicle you want to race in and take it to a race track of your choice set it up for your first race. Then tell me if motor sports is a team sport. You have no clue what it takes to get your first race on a real world track with other drivers.
You're talking about grassroots, amateur motorsport. Professional motorsport is completely different, and it's what all racing games simulate. Nobody races in GT4, Touring Cars, even professional Karting, on their own.
 

Northstar

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You're talking about grassroots, amateur motorsport. Professional motorsport is completely different, and it's what all racing games simulate. Nobody races in GT4, Touring Cars, even professional Karting, on their own.
I would say even at the grassroots level you're not getting very far without at the least a couple buddies helping you out.
 

fordlaser

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I will try to keep this simple . You go out and find a race car or any vehicle you want to race in and take it to a race track of your choice set it up for your first race. Then tell me if motor sports is a team sport. You have no clue what it takes to get your first race on a real world track with other drivers.
You just get a race car and take it to the track on your own, with no one helping you ?.
 
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429
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Have you.....actually watched any real motorsports? This is an unbelieably bad take that I'd love for you to put to a car designer, mechanic, or strategist, for example.
I have a question for your question how many points do you get for watching a sim race in your gaming

Please let me know if you have any experience driving in a real race with real drivers in competition with any vehicle motorized it would help me understand your line of questions.

You just get a race car and take it to the track on your own, with no one helping you ?.
Kart racing all you need is to get your racing kart to the track the only help you might need is getting it out of the trunk of your car. That is how it starts for a rookie in kart racing some times . How you learn to set up your racing kart and become a better driver will come with each race day you attend and asking a lot of questions.

Drag Racing all you need is to barrow your father’s car drive it to the track get a number and get on line to race.
 

fordlaser

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Kart racing all you need is to get your racing kart to the track the only help you might need is getting it out of the trunk of your car. That is how it starts for a rookie in kart racing some times . How you learn to set up your racing kart and become a better driver will come with each race day you attend Asking a lot of questions
I know a lot of kart and also rookies drivers when I have gone to race meetings, but I have never seen only one person working on their karts in the pits, perhaps two or more but never one.
 
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I know a lot of kart and also rookies drivers when I have gone to race meetings, but I have never seen only one person working on their karts in the pits, perhaps two or more but never one.
Knowing a lot of kart Drivers and rookies is not actually being one of them .

The Driver Meeting you say you attended is required for all drivers to be present to be sure all drivers know all safety rules and driver conduct Before the racing begins.

I would like to know about your first race day was it in a racing Kart and did you own it or rent it for the day?
 
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Australia
Australia
Regarding the original post, I think Project CARS 2 was an anomaly. It is a multi-discipline motorsport racing sim made for the masses, which is a good game and was commercially successful. The only other game I can think of that has done anything like it is TOCA Race Driver 3, and that was much more sim-cade. Codemasters haven't offered a game with as much content since, and I don't think they ever will.

Project CARS 2 built off the work done on Need for Speed Shift. Codemasters, Kunos and maybe Milestone are the only developers I can think of currently that have the groundwork done in prior games to make a game like Project CARS 2, but I don't think any of them would actually try.

Sadly I think the best we can hope for is good single discipline games like Assetto Corsa Competizione, and even then with Codemasters/EA and Motorsport Games in an arms race to buy up all the series licences there may not be too many true sims like ACC.

I would love to be proven wrong and have a new game like Project CARS 2, but I think the signs at the moment aren't very promising.
 

fordlaser

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Knowing a lot of kart Drivers and rookies is not actually being one of them .

The Driver Meeting you say you attended is required for all drivers to be present to be sure all drivers know all safety rules and driver conduct Before the racing begins.

I would like to know about your first race day was it in a racing Kart and did you own it or rent it for the day?
I only knew karting drivers but I was a pit crew member for my nephew which he drives a speedcar.
 
429
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I only knew karting drivers but I was a pit crew member for my nephew which he drives a speedcar.
I tip my hat to you and nephew I bet your time together is priceless.

I think kart racing has more to offer then any team sports . All the kids that drive have family members or friends as their pit crew. The best thing their driving ability will never make them a bench warmer and just finishing or coming in last can become a win the first time.
 

Famine

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Famine

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Is this your quote or the fellow in the picture.
"The fellow in the picture" is Kazunori Yamauchi, creator of the Gran Turismo game series, and it's his words from a video released literally today:

 
20,909
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I tip my hat to you and nephew I bet your time together is priceless.

I think kart racing has more to offer then any team sports . All the kids that drive have family members or friends as their pit crew. The best thing their driving ability will never make them a bench warmer and just finishing or coming in last can become a win the first time.
It's still a team if they're your friends or family.
 
429
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"The fellow in the picture" is Kazunori Yamauchi, creator of the Gran Turismo game series, and it's his words from a video released literally today:

The fellow in the picture is talking about GT 7 a game and you are relating that to a personal experience in real kart racing as a quote.

I would like to hear about your first race day on a real track with real competition with real drivers and about your pit crew if any?
 
20,909
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The fellow in the picture is talking about GT 7 a game and you are relating that to a personal experience in real kart racing as a quote.

I would like to hear about your first race day on a real track with real competition with real drivers and about your pit crew if any?
This topic is about the future of sim racing, in games. The post you originally quoted was talking about making the team aspect of motorsport more prevelant in sim racing games, because they're supposed to be simulating real life professional motorsport, which is always a team sport involving many, many people.

What you personally do as an amateur on a Sunday afternoon in rural America is irrelevant to the discussion. That isn't what sim racing games are simulating.
 
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Wolfe

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Wolfe2x7
I would like to see a shift towards using sim racing technology to preserve car history. So many old cars are deteriorating and are being destroyed. It would be great if we could preserve as much about how these cars drive so that they can be enjoyed by future generations. I'm not sure how and who exactly would store this information, but I think we should be trying.
Much of the pertinent fundamental data is available on the internet on websites such as Carfolio or plain Wikipedia. However, I got an account for an online database of alignment specs -- intended for shop service -- for the express purpose of using that data to set up cars correctly in my sim. I was finding it tedious to scour the internet for scans of printed manuals or for message board answers buried among suggestions for non-OEM alignments for performance/track use!

My impression is that much of the process that AAA devs go through in collecting data from cars has more to do with capturing painstaking visual detail and recording audio. Details like the exact factory spring stiffness and damper force are harder to come by without input from the manufacturer or supplier, but go much further than that and you're starting to get into details like how exactly a particular AWD transmission distributes torque.

I don't think many sims go into quite that much detail, but on the point you're making, they could try to do so.
 
166
Australia
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Much of the pertinent fundamental data is available on the internet on websites such as Carfolio or plain Wikipedia. However, I got an account for an online database of alignment specs -- intended for shop service -- for the express purpose of using that data to set up cars correctly in my sim. I was finding it tedious to scour the internet for scans of printed manuals or for message board answers buried among suggestions for non-OEM alignments for performance/track use!

My impression is that much of the process that AAA devs go through in collecting data from cars has more to do with capturing painstaking visual detail and recording audio. Details like the exact factory spring stiffness and damper force are harder to come by without input from the manufacturer or supplier, but go much further than that and you're starting to get into details like how exactly a particular AWD transmission distributes torque.

I don't think many sims go into quite that much detail, but on the point you're making, they could try to do so.
Thanks for your input.

It is hard to know how much data will be needed for modelling in the future. It does seem like the current most detailed sims do have enough data for people who know to say this feels like a particular car. That being said the more data the better.

The fact that each dev has to collect the data for each car is a huge waste. If there was a central database (preferably open source) that devs and modders could access and add to, that would benefit everyone.
 

Famine

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The fellow in the picture is talking about GT 7 a game
Correct. He's, as I said, Kazunori Yamauchi, the creator of the Gran Turismo game series - which includes the Gran Turismo Sport game.

He's also a GT3 racing driver with two successive class wins at the Nurburgring 24 hours, but hey I'm sure you know more about both Gran Turismo and about racing cars than he does.

I would like to hear about your first race day on a real track with real competition with real drivers and about your pit crew if any?
Why? The thread's about "the future of sim racing", not whatever brain trauma nonsense you're gibbering on about now.
 

ScottPye20

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Why? The thread's about "the future of sim racing", not whatever brain trauma nonsense you're gibbering on about now.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is gold. Quote of the year.
 
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697
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Farbanti, Erusea
We'll probably just see more games support VR than ever before, but for me nothing will ever beat a controller and a flat screen monitor lol
 
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429
United States
United States
Correct. He's, as I said, Kazunori Yamauchi, the creator of the Gran Turismo game series - which includes the Gran Turismo Sport game.

He's also a GT3 racing driver with two successive class wins at the Nurburgring 24 hours, but hey I'm sure you know more about both Gran Turismo and about racing cars than he does.

Why? The thread's about "the future of sim racing", not whatever brain trauma nonsense you're gibbering on about now.
I guess “the future of sim racing” will not need any personal experience from other real race drivers who have never race at Nurburgring .

I will honor your decision not to speak on your personal experiences.
 

Famine

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I guess “the future of sim racing” will not need any personal experience from other real race drivers who have never race at Nurburgring .

I will honor your decision not to speak on your personal experiences.
This is meaningless gibberish. It's completely impossible to extract any kind of sense from what you've typed here, and I have no idea how you think it fits in with what I've twice told you now.

Here's the third time. Kazunori Yamauchi is the creator of the Gran Turismo game series. You know, the game you play, but say you don't because it's not a game? The guy who literally makes it says it's a game (he even restates it in that video).

He's also an amateur racing driver with some considerable experience - likely more than anyone on GTPlanet except for the small handful of professional racing drivers we have.

In his latest video about the game you say isn't a game but is, he says that racing is not something you do alone, destroying in a single, short sentence your insane "point" you've been attempting to advance in this thread that motorsport isn't a team sport, which everyone has been trying to explain to you is wrong. I mean, the very fact the N24 - a race which lasts for 24 hours and needs a team of drivers to take part - even exists should be a clue that you're wrong.

That should pretty much be it for your "point". If you won't take the word of the guy who makes the game you play and with seven N24 races under his belt, there's absolutely no hope of getting any sense from you at all.
 
20,909
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
there's absolutely no hope of getting any sense from you at all.
Well it seems pretty clear to me, the future of Sim racing is spending vast sums on money on simulator hardware so you can race in any game which simulates the race day of a real world race, except for the rules, which will be the same across all games now. This is all to train yourself to enter grassroots karting in real life, where there will be no pit stop tyre rules because those are gotcha rules and you haven't hired a pit crew anyway because motor racing isn't a team sport. You continue racing karts until it breaks, at which point you pack it in, because you've not hired a mechanic.
 
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