The future of sim racing

20,898
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I have some experience racing on different tracks and with different race cars. kart racing on all tracks use one set of rules from the IKF , drag racing used NHRA rules for all tracks and NASCAR rules for stock cars. All track safety rule were said at the beginning of the race day and all drivers have to attend.

So I think online sim racing in the future of Esports should have their own set of simple rules for all computer and console software to race with.

If you need a gotcha rule to have fun racing find a club for league rules or just race AIs.
There are no 'gotcha' rules if you read all the rules beforehand. That's like saying a speeding fine is a gotcha fine because you didn't look at the road signs or read the road laws. Read the rules for the given race series, understand them, adhere to them. It's not hard. It's only a gotcha rule if nobody tells you about it and there is nowhere for you to learn it.

All racing series follow the same very basic rules with regards to dangerous driving, driving on the track, intentionally hitting other cars etc etc but there are thousands of racing series out there all with their own sporting regulations. Different scoring systems, different ways to finish the race (timed or laps), mandatory/optional/no pit stops, tyre rules and regulations. There are millions of different ways to set up a racing league, you're never going to always have the same one.

But if you want the folks that run NASCAR to run the same sporting regulations as Formula 1, by all means call them up and make the suggestion. It ain't going to happen, and likewise there is never going to be an online sim racing governing body that makes all the rules for every game, and makes them all the same.
 
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429
United States
United States
There are no 'gotcha' rules if you read all the rules beforehand. That's like saying a speeding fine is a gotcha fine because you didn't look at the road signs or read the road laws. Read the rules for the given race series, understand them, adhere to them. It's not hard. It's only a gotcha rule if nobody tells you about it and there is nowhere for you to learn it.

All racing series follow the same very basic rules with regards to dangerous driving, driving on the track, intentionally hitting other cars etc etc but there are thousands of racing series out there all with their own sporting regulations. Different scoring systems, different ways to finish the race (timed or laps), mandatory/optional/no pit stops, tyre rules and regulations. There are millions of different ways to set up a racing league, you're never going to always have the same one.

But if you want the folks that run NASCAR to run the same sporting regulations as Formula 1, by all means call them up and make the suggestion. It ain't going to happen, and likewise there is never going to be an online sim racing governing body that makes all the rules for every game, and makes them all the same.
The gotcha rules I am referring to is getting a penalty for a rule after the checkered flag to change the out come of how drivers finish. That’s a gotcha. Has nothing to do with safety or driving etiquette in motor sports
 
20,898
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The gotcha rules I am referring to is getting a penalty for a rule after the checkered flag to change the out come of how drivers finish. That’s a gotcha. Has nothing to do with safety or driving etiquette in motor sports
No, it's part of the sporting regulations of the event. The regulations you're supposed to read. All motorsport series have them, and they're all different. So again, no, it's not a gotcha. It's a "You didn't follow the rules like everyone else so we've no choice but to penalise you" kind of thing. Very common in real motorsport, as are the regulations surrounding tyre usage and pit stops. You can't penalise them before the end of the race because up until the last lap they still have the ability to conform to the pre-agreed rules. It's only when they finish the race have they broken the rules.
 
429
United States
United States
No, it's part of the sporting regulations of the event. The regulations you're supposed to read. All motorsport series have them, and they're all different. So again, no, it's not a gotcha. It's a "You didn't follow the rules like everyone else so we've no choice but to penalise you" kind of thing. Very common in real motorsport, as are the regulations surrounding tyre usage and pit stops. You can't penalise them before the end of the race because up until the last lap they still have the ability to conform to the pre-agreed rules. It's only when they finish the race have they broken the rules.
Are we talking about all rules of track safety that are in place for the start of a race with a green flag and finish with a checker flag to determine a winner. Or are we talking about a gamers getting more points to advance his or hers rating in a game changing the race winner after the checker flag?

Forcing a drivers to come into the pits to take off good tires to put on better tires is only a rule to change the winner. This is not racing under fair rules for future international sim racing rules that may or may not happen for sim drivers around the world. This is only my opinion and is not about following rules.
 
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2,674
Ghana
Null Island
Are we talking about all rules of track safety that are in place for the start of a race with a green flag and finish with a checker flag to determine a winner. Or are we talking about a gamers getting more points to advance his or hers rating in a game changing the race winner after the checker flag?

Forcing a drivers to come into the pits to take off good tires to put on better tires is only a rule to change the winner. This is not racing under fair rules for future international sim racing rules that may or may not happen for sim drivers around the world. This is only my opinion and is not about following rules.
No Way Family GIF by GIPHY Studios Originals


Never change when it comes to completely missing the point :lol:

For someone who wants to emulate real motorsport to the degree you seem to try to, we're oddly hung up on a version of the "mandatory pitstop" rule in several real motorsport groups.
 
429
United States
United States
No Way Family GIF by GIPHY Studios Originals


Never change when it comes to completely missing the point :lol:

For someone who wants to emulate real motorsport to the degree you seem to try to, we're oddly hung up on a version of the "mandatory pitstop" rule in several real motorsport groups.
I am wondering if the “ real motorsport groups” you are referring to wil let you on the their race track with a game pad to replace a steering wheel assembly ?
 
2,674
Ghana
Null Island
I am wondering if the “ real motorsport groups” you are referring to wil let you on the their race track with a game pad to replace a steering wheel assembly ?
jau1IwX.gif


We were discussing mandatory pitstops in real-world motorsport. At what point did I say "hey let's let real-world racers control their cars via gamepad"?

Don't. Move. The. Goalposts. I was just wondering why you're objecting so hard to a rule that tries to emulate real-world motorsport.

Also, while I'm here:

Get. Over. Yourself. You're playing a videogame just like everybody else who plays, no matter the control method. Your elitist schtick is getting a bit tired but at the same time still amuses me greatly so I won't block you.
 
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20,898
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Are we talking about all rules of track safety that are in place for the start of a race with a green flag and finish with a checker flag to determine a winner. Or are we talking about a gamers getting more points to advance his or hers rating in a game changing the race winner after the checker flag?

Forcing a drivers to come into the pits to take off good tires to put on better tires is only a rule to change the winner. This is not racing under fair rules for future international sim racing rules that may or may not happen for sim drivers around the world. This is only my opinion and is not about following rules.
Yes, it is absolutely about following rules. It only changes the winner if someone doesn't follow the rules.

Have a look at Formula 1, the biggest racing series in the world. They have a rule that two tyre compounds must be used in a dry race. If you don't, you get a penalty. It's a perfectly fair rule since everyone is aware of it and everyone has to do it.
 
429
United States
United States
The topic hear is “the future of sim racing”. My hope is simple fair rules and penalties for all sim drivers.

I am not in favor of a gotcha rule that could have been lost in translation of text or language. We are talking about sim drivers sitting in their homes all over the world racing on simulator software.
 
20,898
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The topic hear is “the future of sim racing”. My hope is simple fair rules and penalties for all sim drivers.

I am not in favor of a gotcha rule that could have been lost in translation of text or language. We are talking about sim drivers sitting in their homes all over the world racing on simulator software.
..and we're saying that is never going to happen. There are not going to be universal rules across different video games. That is not the future of sim racing. If you play iRacing, you'll play by iRacing rules. If you play Gran Turismo, you'll play by Gran Turismo rules.

How on earth can anything be lost in translation? Are you playing a version of a game in a different language to that which you can understand?
 
429
United States
United States
..and we're saying that is never going to happen. There are not going to be universal rules across different video games. That is not the future of sim racing. If you play iRacing, you'll play by iRacing rules. If you play Gran Turismo, you'll play by Gran Turismo rules.

How on earth can anything be lost in translation? Are you playing a version of a game in a different language to that which you can understand?
You are right their is different rules for individual software for gaming now and will be in the future. You have to ask yourself with all the money spent on the simulator equipment to race in international online racing of sim drivers. Why would you think they are not looking to improve their racing experience. I think Esports and money will make the changes in sim racing future.

You are satisfied playing a game with GTS and their is nothing wrong with that.

Stop trying to make me you. I spent my hard earn money building a driving simulator and flight simulator for my enjoyment . The reason for doing this is my real life passions in racing and flying that I can not afford to do anymore. please In the future remember I am not you.
 
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20,898
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
You are right their is different rules for individual software for gaming now and will be in the future. You have to ask yourself with all the money spent on the simulator equipment to race in international online racing of sim drivers. Why would you think they are not looking to improve their racing experience. I think Esports and money will make the changes in sim racing future.

You are satisfied playing a game with GTS and their is nothing wrong with that.

Stop trying to make me you. I spent my hard earn money building a driving simulator and flight simulator for my enjoyment . The reason for doing this is my real life passions in racing and flying that I can not afford to do anymore. please In the future remember I am not you.
Well, er, thanks for confirming you're not me. I wasn't 100% sure.

I really don't know what you're trying to get at. There will certainly be changes in sim racing, just as there constantly has been the last 20 years, but what exactly do you believe they will be, since you've agreed that universal rules across games won't happen?
 
429
United States
United States
The question should be why are people who love racing spending thousands of dollars on simulator equipment to experience sim racing.

I think after simulator racing the next move up is real racing. Or if you have real racing experience it’s a step down. That’s what I think.
 
20,898
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The question should be why are people who love racing spending thousands of dollars on simulator equipment to experience sim racing.

I think after simulator racing the next move up is real racing. Or if you have real racing experience it’s a step down. That’s what I think.
OK? It's pretty obvious why people spend money on simulation equipment, it's because they can't do it in real life or in the case of many real racing drivers, it's so that they can stay fresh and have fun while they can't do it in real life.

Not sure what that has to do with the topic.
 
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2,674
Ghana
Null Island
OK? It's pretty obvious why people spend money on simulation equipment, it's because they can't do it in real life or in the case of many real racing drivers, it's so that they can stay fresh and have fun while they can't do it in real life.

Not sure what that has to do with the topic.
Nobody knows. Money is clearly the only way to go for immersion /s

The goalpost moving is fantastic.
 
20,898
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Granted I don't think he meant to tie it into the actual topic, I do think the increasingly large financial hurdle needed to go from gamepad to wheel is worth talking about as far as sim racing's future is concerned.
Well it depends in what context. I'm not a wheel racer myself these days but I'm pretty sure the most expensive equipment is more about immersion than going faster, isn't it? Which stands to reason the more immersive items you want, it's going to cost more. But to actually just drive quickly I'm sure lower end stuff is just as good in that regard, right?

What is the cheapest decent wheel nowadays, at say, DFGT levels of quality and usability?
 

Northstar

The Original Party Worm
Premium
23,407
United States
Anoka, MN
RokkitShipp
What is the cheapest decent wheel nowadays, at say, DFGT levels of quality and usability?
Probably the Thrustmaster T150, which seems to average $200 USD, the DFGT in comparison could regularly be found for about $100 when it was still in production.
 

ScottPye20

I want to be monkey
Premium
10,727
Australia
Melbourne
ScottPye20
Look at this guy talking saying that people who spend thousands on sim equipment should race real cars, whilst I'm sitting here playing a controller with no hope of moving any further because I'm crippled. You may think that I'm missing out but with the constant evolution of controllers, my experience will continue to improve. You can spend thousands on sim-racing equipment if you want to for the complete immersion package, but it's good to know that those who can't can still get the same kind of realism on a controller. The gap between wheel users and controller users will continue to shrink, which is fantastic for someone like me, who has the knowledge and the skills to race at a high level. No longer will I be hamstrung by my equipment.
 
166
Australia
Australia
I would like to see a shift towards using sim racing technology to preserve car history. So many old cars are deteriorating and are being destroyed. It would be great if we could preserve as much about how these cars drive so that they can be enjoyed by future generations. I'm not sure how and who exactly would store this information, but I think we should be trying.
 
429
United States
United States
Well it depends in what context. I'm not a wheel racer myself these days but I'm pretty sure the most expensive equipment is more about immersion than going faster, isn't it? Which stands to reason the more immersive items you want, it's going to cost more. But to actually just drive quickly I'm sure lower end stuff is just as good in that regard, right?

What is the cheapest decent wheel nowadays, at say, DFGT levels of quality and usability?
Driving faster in a game I can see your reasons for staying with a game pad . When you step up to sim racing with a simulator it is getting you ready for real competition in the world of amateur racing in karting or what ever motor sports you like and can afford.

I was told in the early days of my racing “No matter how much you think you are the fastest their is always someone faster”.

The other thing I was told “it is not how much you spend to be faster it is the skill the other driver has to pass you”.

My thoughts on the future of sim racing is gaming is the introduction and simulator racing is the first step on the path to real racing.

I would like to see a shift towards using sim racing technology to preserve car history. So many old cars are deteriorating and are being destroyed. It would be great if we could preserve as much about how these cars drive so that they can be enjoyed by future generations. I'm not sure how and who exactly would store this information, but I think we should be trying.
124C96BB-7C56-449F-B4EF-7E6EF9AF1AD5.jpeg

Here is one you will not see my first introduction into racing came in a kit
 
638
United States
Bedford, Indiana
tmsheehan
The question should be why are people who love racing spending thousands of dollars on simulator equipment to experience sim racing.

I think after simulator racing the next move up is real racing. Or if you have real racing experience it’s a step down. That’s what I think.
Maybe a SIM racer has a good career that he or she enjoys and just wants to have a hobby that fits into their lifestyle. As with any hobby there is a cost to buy the proper equipment for said hobby.

The next move in one person's opinion is not necessarily the same for another. I personally have no desire to race in real life.

I do applaud that you have chosen to join the SIM racing community after your real world experience. Good luck with your SIM racing experience.
 
20,898
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
When you step up to sim racing with a simulator it is getting you ready for real competition in the world of amateur racing in karting or what ever motor sports you like and can afford.
Says who? That might be true for some people, but not the majority.
 
187
United States
United States
I would like to see a shift towards using sim racing technology to preserve car history. So many old cars are deteriorating and are being destroyed. It would be great if we could preserve as much about how these cars drive so that they can be enjoyed by future generations. I'm not sure how and who exactly would store this information, but I think we should be trying.
I feel the same way, but about tracks. Obviously tracks are a bit different than a single car as they also have pit buildings and scenery around them as well as potential licensing issues with track sponsors for signage and stuff, but nonetheless I'd love to see it.

As more and more tracks get shut down due to noise complaints, buyouts for housing developments, "green" initiatives from councils, dwindling spectators and so on, then preserving them in sims/games will be the only way to experience them.

We are seeing a lot of it right now in dirt track racing, seemingly losing a few tracks every year... But it also can happen with bigger venues, for example we know Adelaide is in trouble right now, and Sandown has been a bit of a question mark for a while down in Australia.

If a track can be preserved with a laser scan and a bunch of reference photos for scenery and pit structures and so on, then hopefully those tracks could also make their way to more titles as the data could be sent to a studio to use, rather than the studio having to put together the budget to send out a team with scanning and photography equipment.
 

kjb

1,420
United States
Cary, NC
mrbabyboyd
I think that is a great idea along with preserving some vintage racers digitally maybe make that information readily available so they can be preserved for historical purposes and for sim racers to enjoy
 
20,898
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I don’t know how to answer we can only give an opinion when talking about the future.
But you were talking about me using a gamepad in the present, not the future. So you think in the future sim racing will be a gateway to real racing? Why wouldn't real racing remain a gateway to real racing? Anyone who is truly serious about racing starts at a young age, in karts. Any adults getting into real racing via sim racing is doing it for a bit of fun, not as a serious career path.
 
429
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But you were talking about me using a gamepad in the present, not the future. So you think in the future sim racing will be a gateway to real racing? Why wouldn't real racing remain a gateway to real racing? Anyone who is truly serious about racing starts at a young age, in karts. Any adults getting into real racing via sim racing is doing it for a bit of fun, not as a serious career path.
What make you think that Kart racing is only for the young I was 45 when I stop racing and I was not considered old. The nice thing about kart racing is the whole family can participate . If you think people race looking for a serious career You are a funny man . Motor Sports is a money pit that only a few can be members before the money runs out . At the end of my Kart racing the average cost was $10,000 a year for me and my sons. The thing is motor sports is a lot of fun and it can build great character in individuals who drive in competition With other drivers. It’s hard to put a price on that.

I am not talking about you and your game pad it will always have a place in racing games . But when a game has competition online racing as part of it . The future can only get better for all of us wannabes.
 
7,862
GTP_Royalton
There's too much focus on physics improvements and not enough on the details.

#1 - The human element. The driver's shouldnt be faceless clones hiding behind a helmet. Let us create our drivers, male and female avatars and ideally give us a NBA 2K face scan to add us into the game.

They've finally added marshalls to the side of many tracks but they are so robotic. Why arent they walking around? In an old F1 sim they would actually walk out onto the track and push your car out of sand traps etc. Why don't they at times watch the cars go by? Why dont they react when you crash into the barrier right in front of them at 200 mph? Is it that hard to make them not look like robots? It's the little things that add up to make the experience more realistic. When there is a crash I want to see a wrecker/tractor drive out to the car with a safety crew and take care of the damaged vehicle. It's little details like this that continually get overlooked that take away from the realism and immersion.

#2 - The business side of racing is completely missing. Look at Fifa or Madden NFL. Negotiating contracts with players, earning money for your franchise to improve the stadium or build a new one etc etc, all of this is in these games and has been for years. The same things are in motorsport - drivers negotiate contracts, team headquarters are upgraded and expanded, etc. Why is the business side of racing completely absent from almost every racing game? It seems like this is in the F1 games now, but that's about it. Besides, I doubt it's anywhere near as advanced or deep as the career mode in Madden NFL
 
190
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The business side of racing is completely missing. Look at Fifa or Madden NFL. Negotiating contracts with players, earning money for your franchise to improve the stadium or build a new one etc etc, all of this is in these games and has been for years. The same things are in motorsport - drivers negotiate contracts, team headquarters are upgraded and expanded, etc. Why is the business side of racing completely absent from almost every racing game? It seems like this is in the F1 games now, but that's about it. Besides, I doubt it's anywhere near as advanced or deep as the career mode in Madden NFL
Moderately agree with this, obviously the main focus in driving games should always be the driving but there's no harm in expanding. I would say Motorsport Manager does a pretty good job of bringing Football Manager style gameplay to racing, if you're on PC I'd definitely recommend picking it up.

I don't know if you play Madden currently or it's been a while but it's franchise mode ain't that deep, and is usually complained about in its community. MyTeam in the F1 games isn't something that interests me but it looks pretty good and I hear very positive things.

MotoGp and WRC seem to do a lot of the same things as well, with prety deep team management modes though I don't have much experience with them.
 
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