The good and bad about public reviews?

  • Thread starter Thread starter LogiForce
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Fanatec...
Interesting idea. So what about a community circulation thread where we have a wheel for some regions (countries) and people can test the products one by one after each other?

We pay for the freight so the test is free. We just need to find a way to make sure it will be forwarded in time.
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Actually I think that is an awesome idea, I personally am involved in sending quantities of your product to Brazil, purchased via Fanatec web site USA because direct shipping is not available there.

That would really give additional exposure in new markets. I would like to see a review from Japan as well, as I lived there for quite a long time too and regularly follow 敵影一's blog there (http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/rmjhj650/folder/529073.html) regarding his mods to your products.
 
Fanatec...
Interesting idea. So what about a community circulation thread where we have a wheel for some regions (countries) and people can test the products one by one after each other?

We pay for the freight so the test is free. We just need to find a way to make sure it will be forwarded in time.
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I think this is a fantastic idea as well.

This is how I would envision it:
- Some sort of form is made that has various criteria to fill out
-- All the obvious stuff like your name
-- Your region (N,E,S,W for the US and countries for EU)
-- Time slot (pre determined) that the user is available to test the product
-- Product desired (if multiple)
-- Credit card info
- Fanatec send the product to the tester
- The tester is charged (full or partial?)
- Tester receives product
- Tester tests product for x days (based on sign up sheet)
- Tester returns product (to Fanatec or next tester?)
- Tester is refunded once the product is received
- The next tester's product is sent

There are many advantages to this. Multiple people testing the same product is a great test of durability. If a product reaches a third tester it would be interesting to see what condition it is in by that point. I am sure with this information Fanatec could greatly improve their products. Multiple people, obviously means different opinions and points of view. What does a hard core PC sim racer have to say VS a casual console racer?

About the only thing that needs to be ironed out is shipping costs and some form of policy to prevent tester from just running away with the product. I would have no problem being immediately charged for the price of the product if know I am going to get a refund when I returned it. Maybe if you are the final tester and you want to purchase the now heavily used product you could get a discount.

The "time slots" solve the forwarding problem. Everyone signs up for a slot and knows exactly how long they have. Then you could receive a shipping label through Fanatec for the next person. Print it out and problem solved. Then the next person does the same thing.

Its almost like crowd sourced R&D. Except the testers are the actual consumers who are interested in, knowledgeable about it and one day will potentially buy the product.




Sorry for so many edits... my mind exploded this idea is so great.
 
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paskowitz
I think this is a fantastic idea as well.

This is how I would envision it:
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You're on it!

Fanatec...
So what can we do on our side to improve the community tests and increase the value for the community even more?
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You could find some one willing to host an invitational event in an area that has a high population of sim racers registered to the forum. Said sim racers could go through an application/screening process before-hand, and participate in a community type hands on review.
 
JogoAsobi
You could find some one willing to host an invitational event in an area that has a high population of sim racers registered to the forum. Said sim racers could go through an application/screening process before-hand, and participate in a community type hands on review.
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I do not know what kind of privacy implications this has, but it would be great if Jordan could tell us where the greatest concentrations of GTPlanet members reside. I bet California and NY are near the top. It would be great to do this at a car dealership or a racing circuit.
 
paskowitz
I do not know what kind of privacy implications this has, but it would be great if Jordan could tell us where the greatest concentrations of GTPlanet members reside. I bet California and NY are near the top. It would be great to do this at a car dealership or a racing circuit.
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A simple poll posted where members could voluntarily provide that info, would circumvent the privacy issues. Once the geographic areas were narrowed down, then members from those areas could apply.

Off the top of my head, Los Angeles, and Phoenix, probably in the USA, not to mention the SF, and NY areas. Please excuse any omissions.
 
I think sending the same product around is a bad idea for the following reason.

I think it is bad because you will get a used product that doesn't have the same quality anymore as it reaches the end of the reviewers list. Package torn, damage during transit, users doing odd stuff with it for all I care.
I base this on experiences with rented videos and video games back in the day from so called video libraries (videotheek in Dutch). Every time I would rent something it would be damaged. Videotapes had demagnetized tapes in them, DVDs were scratched, SNES cardridges didn't work anymore... etc.

If I have to review such a product... I personally would pass on it.


Edit: I like the idea of holding so called community review events though. Sounds rather nice. Next to reviewing products you could then also meet people from the community and maybe drink something together at said event and talk about the product(s) :)
Besides, big events like gamescom and so on are sometimes just far too huge and in the end you never get a chance to get to play. If you get a glimps at all.
 
LogiForce
I think sending the same product around is a bad idea for the following reason.

I think it is bad because you will get a used product that doesn't have the same quality anymore as it reaches the end of the reviewers list. Package torn, damage during transit, users doing odd stuff with it for all I care.
I base this on experiences with rented videos and video games back in the day from so called video libraries (videotheek in Dutch). Every time I would rent something it would be damaged. Videotapes had demagnetized tapes in them, DVDs were scratched, SNES cardridges didn't work anymore... etc.

If I have to review such a product... I personally would pass on it.

Edited to include LogiForce's edit.

Edit: I like the idea of holding so called community review events though. Sounds rather nice. Next to reviewing products you could then also meet people from the community and maybe drink something together at said event and talk about the product(s)
Besides, big events like gamescom and so on are sometimes just far too huge and in the end you never get a chance to get to play. If you get a glimps at all.
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I disagree, I am sure members would take care not to thrash the wheel because they know it will be reviewed by someone else, as the process is public, anyone passing on a thrashed wheel would be outed in the community.

In the video and game rental process, there is lack of accountability because of the semi-anonymous nature of the transaction, unless the outfit providing the rental gets involved in identifying the culprits, that is not the case here.

A simple digital photo with time stamp prior to sending to next person would also work.

Also if a wheel became unusable in the review process, I am sure a mechanism could be formulated to send said wheel back, and obtain a replacement for the rest of the review chain.
 
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Well, if not that then there is still another reason why one would not want to opt-in though.

If one has to put down 50% or 100% of the price as a temporary deposite (which is no more then reasonable) and the wheel takes weeks till it reaches you as everyone wants and should have their fair amount of use. Then one might say "Well, if I have to put down that much money to review a product before buying it and it'll take long after the release before I get it, I might as well just pre-order it and sell it if I don't like it".
So basically the 'I will take my chances' kind of customer, instead of the weary one who will say 'I would rather wait and see if I like the wheel by putting to be refunded money down by reviewing this product. This way I won't have any loss for myself' type of person.

Also this type of reviewing process won't produce much reviews before the production units get send out nor the pre-order process has been started. So the early purchasers won't know what to expect of a product and I think that that was the whole point of having community reviews out before the production units are. I think that was the original plan of the community reviews anyway if I understood Thomas well.

Just trying to be the other side of the coin here, which I know can be frustrating for people that hate it in brainstorming sessions (however this is a topic of discussion I think).
 
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I know if I was a tester I would not put a deposit on a used item, if I test a new wheel I want it brand new and not opened before I got it.
 
delete, Edit; Agreed, deposit is a tough nut to crack.
 
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@Left888
I don't think I would either. I would personally just pre-order it instead of waiting for the product to eventually someday get to me. But like I said there are probably two types of persons/camps here in this case.

@JogoAsobi
Heh... then I have a reason I would have to necessarily opt-out. I don't have a credit card and no means to get one at this point of time I'm sure. ;)

Btw. I edited my above post you quoted


Anyway, since I became 26 just about 2 hours ish ago (GMT+1. Its now 2am here) and need to be up early for visitors; I will have to say goodnight to you all and will talk to you guys again soon.
 
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I would not put money down ever to be a product reviewer or beta tester.
 
No I meant the later message #68 at which you responded in message #70 but you deleted just now.
 
While having more people reveiw the wheel would be great sending a wheel around the country seems a bit costly, would take alot of time and possibly be a headache for fanatec. Having a wheel at once place would cool to try it but to give a review from at most a few hours of use wouldnt be very informative. So whats in place for testing now may be the best option.
 
LogiForce
No I meant the later message #68 at which you responded in message #70 but you deleted just now.
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Sorry, cannot tell or remember what you edited in #68, anyway I agree about the deposit, ok?
 
I believe you will need a credit card for fanatec to send a wheel even for testing.
 
JogoAsobi
Sorry, cannot tell or remember what you edited in #68, anyway I agree about the deposit, ok?
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I think I added the following bits but ok. ;)
Wasn't sure if you read it or not. Especially the second paragraph there about the production time of reviews. I don't know how much it matters in the discussion, but I think Thomas wanted reviews out there before the production models were delivered. If we would do such a pass around product review system then either the production of the models needs to be halted until almost all reviewers had a chance to look at the product or you'd be late with the product of the reviews themselves.


I'll quote myself

So basically the 'I will take my chances' kind of customer, instead of the weary one who will say 'I would rather wait and see if I like the wheel by putting to be refunded money down by reviewing this product. This way I won't have any loss for myself' type of person.

Also this type of reviewing process won't produce much reviews before the production units get send out nor the pre-order process has been started. So the early purchasers won't know what to expect of a product and I think that that was the whole point of having community reviews out before the production units are. I think that was the original plan of the community reviews anyway if I understood Thomas well.

Just trying to be the other side of the coin here, which I know can be frustrating for people that hate it in brainstorming sessions (however this is a topic of discussion I think).
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fatkrakr
I believe you will need a credit card for fanatec to send a wheel even for testing.
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Probably right, makes sense, they have to protect themselves as well.

I mean't that's a hard nut to crack for a community test wheel.
 
LogiForce
I think I added the following bits but ok. ;)
Wasn't sure if you read it or not. Especially the second paragraph there about the production time of reviews. I don't know how much it matters in the discussion, but I think Thomas wanted reviews out there before the production models were delivered. If we would do such a pass around product review system then either the production of the models needs to be halted until almost all reviewers had a chance to look at the product or you'd be late with the product of the reviews themselves.


I'll quote myself
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I understand, that's why in one of my first posts on this thread, I suggested that Fanatec might modify or change their criteria for reviewing...

...its all good, I think we're all trying to get to the same place...
 
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Seeing your views on this LogiForce, I definitely agree with your points. The only issue with the alternative, a "community event", is find the right location and logistics of setting it up.
 
Well, as far as finding a community event manager/host (I would reckon a per country or state(s) basis, depending on the size) maybe one of the Customer Support team would like to do this if there is time. Or maybe someone Thomas trusts with all the expensive equipment.

Finding the right and most central location would be up to the said manager. If needs be the manager could ask the community or the participants what would be the most ideal location for the event, and of course inquire about the costs of hiring a room or the place for the event. Then communicating this back and forth with Thomas.


Anyway, I can easily see posibilities there. In my case I could ask my aunt for example on how to manage such events as she has been on Cebit for Commodore to represent the company and its products and let customers (re)view them, etc.



For example:
If Thomas were to ask me to manage such an event to cover the Netherlands then I would suggest to him that I would like to hold it in either Utrecht or Zwolle because of their reasonably centralized locations. Or either of the two famous Dutch circuits. However if he would split the Netherlands into two sections because of demand on reviews then I would take the Nortern part and host it somewhere in Assen. Maybe and most likely on the TT Circuit there if possible. And the someone else could take south and hold it on Zandvoort.

I would of course ask about the costs and convey this with Thomas.

Also if many people like to participate we might have to hold the event for multiple days. Only if this is within budget else we have to be selective with criteria like not letting anyone in who was there the last one or maybe even two events. Plus first come first serve basis.

Of course there have to be some consumption arrangements afterwards so everyone can get a drink if they would like, which is always nice while talking with people you might or might not know from the community.

Also about the units for the event. Depending on the scale of things if we pick the 3 platform CSR Elite. We could do up to 5 rigss each platform max. However then we might have to look at sponsoring by companies like AMD, MS, Sony, Intel and Nvidia. But we could also keep it small with one or two rigs per platform. Which is already 3 or 6 people testing simultaneously.

Maybe we can also make a digital form everyone can fill in in which they tell their experience. Which will get posted directly on the new site of 911wheel.de for example. Direct and honest reviews.

Anyway, I see possibilities in this to make it a fun thing for everyone.
The only thing is and that's the same thing with community reviews as they are. If production flaws creep in and some get a bad product it will still seem as the test units were cherry picked. And honestly I don't think you can remove that as we all like a working product to review anyway.
 
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If there would be such a testing event near by, or even in germany, next time I'm on holiday, I would for sure spend a day there to test and review the product.
On the other hand I wouldn't want to be a community tester at all,
simply because in my everyday life there is just not enough time to deliver the proper review a community deserves.
But testing event 👍
 
Problem with a test event(s) in US, is, the US is huge compared to Europe. It is nice being able to cross your country in a day. It's takes us a century just to go 2 states over.

That being said, I would say NYC, San Fran, Chicago, Orlando, and Austin are a good spread of cities to choose. Question is where at these locations?
 
Hence I also mentioned states in my previous post. I know the USA as I've been to Ohio University for a fast and extremely compact business course (3 months worth of info in two to three weeks. I was drained after that. lol).

So yeah I was thinking that in the states we could maybe find someone willing to represent their state and the sim community.
I am sure that as a local the rep would be able to find a nice place to host the event. Think kart, R/C car or any race track/oval. Maybe a nice place along a famous road. Think route 66 or pikes peak.
Just let your brain think about it in this pattern. First think of anything race or car related in your vicinity. Then think about which option you would find the greatest to host the event at. Then start to look around for a possible spot. At which point you might need to be creative and maybe even make some calls for info about what possible places there might be.
Another possibility is asking members in the community that live in the state for any pointers.

Also I don't know how big these events will be but due to possible shortage on review equipment. The stuff might need to be send from state to state. Unless Thomas selects/maybe hires an adventurous person that likes to travel the USA and does the hosting that is. heh
Plus this alone would be a thorough durability test. ;)
 
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I have seen loaner programmes for audio equipment. One on a DAC that weight near as much as an Elite I would believe and it went through al right. Now that one is over engineered with very stick steel casing. The wheel could be sent in triple boxing.

Anyway as I see it the idea about the loaner programme would not be to review it. There will be tons of reviews out already at that point from people being allowed more time with the wheel but rather to get people a chance to try to increase sales? Reading and actually getting your hands on it is totally different things. There is no substitute to actually try before you buy.

The loaner programmes I seen had no deposit each person covered shipping to the next. There was of course a manager that selected who was allowed to test based on some security criterias. Idea there was to get more impressions but that wasn´t that successful since people was quite busy and just a week with a new source give nothing more then the feel of it :)

I believe it would be appreciated in my communities for sure though.
 
Thomas, the current way of doing reviews is good enough and proven to be effective, you do not need to reinvent the wheel nor you change things that work.

One thing I can suggest is to explore the markets you are not present at. For example China, Russia, Brazil, India, these countries have the fastest growing economics hence people are willing to spend more on toys like sim-racing wheels and setups.

For example Russia, I have lived in Russia and know the language very well. Russians are obsessed with their cars, they love racing and now they also have the cash ;)
 
^Thats handy. Lol.

On topic. Are public testers bound by any non disclosure agreements. Or are they free to mention all problems they experience?

Cheers.

Edit. Ignored by Boss man \/.
 
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I agree with ilonioum. I think the current way of doing reviews is good enough.
However we could still do these kinds of events next to it after release and units are available at it. I would how ever approach it a bit differently (but the end result would be the same) and that is in the way of having communities host "meet & greet" events where you can come in contact with fellow seem racers that live near you. Of course these meet&greet events will then be sponsored by Fanatec where Thomas can showcase his new wheels and then have word of mouth advertising. Which would work greatly within a community.

I have been a player of an online game called Galaxisonline.com (also I participated to some extend in the moderation and development of it) and there we would sometimes (once or twice a year) hold a so called "beer meeting" where we as fellow country men that played the same game would get together and have a chat, a drink and a laugh.
In the case of a Meet&Greet event sponsored by Fanatec you would have the same but then you can also enjoy the new gear of a company. Also maybe we could set it up so that you could all compete against each other and it would end in a small LAN party of sorts.

Anyway, at the end of the day Fanatec will get some more advertising from person to person and we will all get to have some up close and personal fun with each other (other then via voice chat).
 
Round 2 is about to start and in this round the community test managers will invite other community memebrs to apply for the poll. My idea was that every user who is interested should post a short description in a certain format so that it is easy for the community to compare them. Perhaps it would also be useful if members already speak for others and recommend them so that the CTM will handpick the best 10 candidates.

So what information should the ctm ask for? How many members should be selected?

In Round 3 the idea is to pack the short descriptions of all participating members in the opening post of the poll thread.

Edit: I actually like to do the community meetings as well and I think that a race track would be a good place to meet. Perhaps we should organize a community event at the Nordschleife but let's talk about that later.
 
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