The GT5 theory

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49
Most of us, including myself, agree that gt5 is the best racing game we can have right now. But we also know that there is something strange going on with this game, it seems incomplete. Nobody can really explain why, as they have worked for so long on the game. I think there is a simple explanation.

If we look at the damage, in the beginning it seemed like there was no damage at all. Then a video showed up on youtube, with someone claiming to have unlocked full damage at lvl 40. This created the myth that there was damage that would gradually develop until lvl 40. Some of us have reached 40 and noticed that there isn't more damage than normal.

After a while we found out that some cars actually have damage, and some don't. I'm talking about visual damage here. Some of the wrc cars for example have doors falling of and there are some other cars with the same damage. I remember Kaz saying that he thought in most games damage was done in a cheap way, so he wanted something realistic. I think the damage we see in some cars is what he was aiming for.

Now, because there's only like 10 of the 200 premiums with full damage, I think that he wanted full damage for every car, but he didn't have the time to do that. Kaz has already said that he wanted like two more years to complete the game. I think that PD planned to release the game late 2012, but managers from Sony forced them to release it. They probably got like 6 months, or less, to make a final version after this decision was made. Not enough time to get all the damage models in, as this has never been a priority in gt games.

What I mean here is that while this game has been in production for a long time, although tourist trophy and gtpsp were also made in this time, it was never really completed. Let me compare it to Forza, Forza was meant to be finished in three years. They finished it within the deadline so it is a complete game. GT5 was meant to be finished within 7 years (maybe only 4 production years because of tt and gtpsp), but 2 years before the release they were forced to complete it. In this way GT5 is like a Ferrari where they didn't have the time to put the roof on, and Forza is like a luxury volkswagen with all bells and whistles.

The question is whether we will get the roof through patches, or whether we have to wait for gt6 for this :).
 
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I agree. Good point. I reckon by far this is an unbeatable game. I can always find something to do in this game. I bought dirt 3 about 3 weeks ago, I'm bored of it already.
I love the real thing, GT5 is awesome, but not yet finished. But I'm not complaining.
 
I'm not sure about the 'Forza is a complete game' thing... sorry :D

By that token GT5 is also complete because it is what it is. If something's incomplete simply because some of the designer's features didn't make the release date then I'd bet we've never ever bought a 'complete' game.

The good news is that PD seem (for now) to have the intention to implement robust and regular updates.
 
This game has already been patched far more than an average PS3 game.

Remember the technical limitations of the PS3 and the sheer amount of time needed to model full damage. I'd be surprised if PD invest all that development time into GT5 when it is already the most successful (highest selling) game on the PS3.

I'm sure many at PD, including Kaz were frustrated that GT5 wasn't quite as complete as they'd wanted. But it doesn't make business sense to spend millions, and countless hours upgrading a game that isn't going to sell more copies because of it (i.e it's sales gradient has levelled out now).
 
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I don't get how parts falling off would take so much time considering its like a really small piece of code that works with a 3D model, via. The game engine, to detach that one object. Assuming that their vehicles were not grouped entirely before exporting and were actually left part for part as their model. They use the same method in Gran Theft Auto. I know for a fact because I have, in the past as a 3D modeling and animation artist, have created small scenarios with breakable objects and physics that are able to do this exact thing. That was only between a team of me and 6 other guys while we made a small video for our group portfolio, which was a service station explosion, car chase and a building collapse. I know I am comparing these low poly GTA models to GT5s multi-hundred thousand to a million poly models. but making objects separate is not hard and making things fall apart when they make contact with another object is easy.

The hardest bit is having the vehicle object morph more realistically during a crash. Gran Turismo tried to stop that by making the vehicles tougher than their real life counter-part, but we always managed to get that car stretched. GTA was terrible for this, sorry to compare.
 
to bad to know that when its finished I'm probably tired of the game.
with the last couple of updates the game is more enjoyable.
it is way more fun now to start with the game instead with the launch.
i got both level 40 in more then 6 months,....that means. I will never start over.
i just wish they put all their effort in GT6.0 now, so we can play that in two or 3 years.
but fat change fore sure, it will never come out on ps3!!
 
In that case, you should fire off your CV :)

I've tried, not for PD but for Rockstar Games, but I need a certificate III in Media and a minimum of 3 years in some kind of professional gaming/movie industry to prove myself to the company that I have what it takes. The course that will give me certificate 3 at A.I.E, where I live in Australia, costs quite a bit and that's only considered a "pathway" for the diploma needed to work in the gaming industry :(

I've been invited multiple times.
 
I believe they have this plan:

Release a basic version with all new technologies for console x

After 2-3 years make a super deluxe version with all these technologies they made for console x.

GT 6 might be for PS3 and be so complete and big that makes GT 4 a bad joke.

That's the feeling I have at least!
 
Have to agree with the OP. Some premiums do have a lot more detailed damage model. Take the Audi R8 5.2. for example. Very "soft" car.. Others.. not so..

I think damge (visual) should not be even considered in GT5. It would save a lot of time to the PD.
 
I really can agree with your that statement. It's a nice way to summarise GT5 without moaning and complaining about it.

There are flaws, we all agree, I think a good metaphor would be to say that GT was premature, when a baby is growing before birth it needs the right amount of time to complete growth and to mature to the right level. Without enough time to properly mature a premature baby may have some mental or physical problems, or birth defects; flaws some would say. (OK, that was a bit OTT but it's to illustrate a point.)

Polite reminder - Please use proper grammar to help make posts easier to read/understand.
 
Have to agree with the OP. Some premiums do have a lot more detailed damage model. Take the Audi R8 5.2. for example. Very "soft" car.. Others.. not so..

I think damge (visual) should not be even considered in GT5. It would save a lot of time to the PD.


In my opinion it is the only and most important mistake Polyphony did/does to NOT see their game as a WHOLE.

Kaz has millions of really good ideas and I consider him beeing an artist rather than a just a game developer.

BUT.. while beeing busy with thousands of great and nice details he forgets that there comes the day where the product HAS to be released. No matter if its Sony who demands that release or the need of some cash to go on working.

Its an endless crafting and then BAMM... "Oh we have to release something... what do we have already? OK, OK..."

The priority of these details and features seem not to follow any logic at all. Some cars have nice damage, some dont. Some have an interior, some dont. Some tracks have weather, some dont....

What they really NEED is a concept of the WHOLE THING and a (achievable) deadline.

JMO
 
While I think you're partly correct, it's quite clear that late 2012 was not the original deadline and it's almost certain that the Nov 2010 release date was actually significantly after the original deadline.

So whilst time became an issue, this is only a result of the fact that they so dramatically ran out of it, and imho this is down to over-ambition, over-estimation of what could be feasibly done, and (also imho) poor prioritisation.

Never has a game made it so clear that the developer could not make the platform do what they had hoped they could.

"Do Not Overestimate The Power Of Playstation."
 
I believe they have this plan:

Release a basic version with all new technologies for console x

After 2-3 years make a super deluxe version with all these technologies they made for console x.

GT 6 might be for PS3 and be so complete and big that makes GT 4 a bad joke.

That's the feeling I have at least!

I agree, it has always been two games per platform. But gt5 has released very late on the PS3, this means the PS4 might be out by the time gt6 will get released. This might mean that gt6 will be released on a PS4, with gt5's engine but more aa, better textures and no graphical glitches and stuff. The current engine is capable of producing pretty photorealistic graphics already :).
 
While I think you're partly correct, it's quite clear that late 2012 was not the original deadline and it's almost certain that the Nov 2010 release date was actually significantly after the original deadline.

So whilst time became an issue, this is only a result of the fact that they so dramatically ran out of it, and imho this is down to over-ambition, over-estimation of what could be feasibly done, and (also imho) poor prioritisation.

Never has a game made it so clear that the developer could not make the platform do what they had hoped they could.

"Do Not Overestimate The Power Of Playstation."

As with the time issues, I'm afraid that the reason they didn't have enough time, is because they released tourist trophy and gtpsp in gt5's production time. I'm afraid their next project to be announced in 2012, will be a PS Vita gran turismo game, or a new tourist trophy. This might result in the same loss of time for the game we really want, gran turismo on the console.
 
As with the time issues, I'm afraid that the reason they didn't have enough time, is because they released tourist trophy and gtpsp in gt5's production time. I'm afraid their next project to be announced in 2012, will be a PS Vita gran turismo game, or a new tourist trophy. This might result in the same loss of time for the game we really want, gran turismo on the console.

Well I'm sure those two titles were part of the bigger picture for a long time. I also don't think that they would have hurt with the pushing back of the GT5 deadline. With literally nothing else leaving the factory, I'm sure Sony's patience would have worn out much earlier, Tourist Trophy and GTPSP must have bought them an extension of time. Also, I'd wager that there were people working on GT5 exclusively throughout the entire period, so to assume that these other titles are necessarily a bad thing for the "main game" is perhaps incorrect. We might have had a GT5 come much sooner but with less content and feeling just as rushed. The only good thing that would have come from that is that the prospect of a GT6 on this platform would have been much higher.

Still, I stand by my earlier comment of them shooting for the stars and realising that they were going to come up short. I bet there are devoted employees at PD that were furious that they had to release what they released, and really quite ashamed of some of it. They just couldn't make it all work, and the more features they conceived and went ahead with, the longer it was taking to realise it. Would they really have gone to such lengths to implement day/night transitions, for instance, if they knew from the outset that the shadows would never look right?
 
There have been reasons.

1. They upgraded something or other, which meant they had to start again, like a new game.

2. They were rushed.
 

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