The Hemi Engine Sucks

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The current Dodge Durango does 0-60 in 8.2 seconds with its 330-horsepower 5.7L Hemi engine.

The current Ford Explorer does 0-60 in 8.4 seconds with its 239-horsepower 4.6L non-Hemi engine.

The current Lexus GX470 does 0-60 in 7.7 seconds with its 235-horspower 4.7L non-Hemi engine.

The current GMC Envoy XL does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds with its 290-horsepower 5.3L non-Hemi engine.

MEANWHILE

The current Dodge Ram does 0-60 in 9.5 seconds with its 345-horsepower 5.7L Hemi engine.

The current Nissan Titan does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds with its 305-horsepower 5.6L non-Hemi engine.

The current Ford F-150 does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds with its 300-horsepower 5.4L non-Hemi engine.

The current Chevrolet Silverado does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds with its 295-horsepower 5.3L non-Hemi engine.

So - that thing got a Hemi? WHO CARES? It's no better. And if you people bring up torque even one time in this thread I'll feed you to a hippo. It's about acceleration, not torque: all the torque in the world can't save you from getting your ass kicked in a straight line. "Oh yeah, I have more pound-feet"? How about "oh yeah, I'm a second quicker to sixty"? Take your pound-feet and shove it.

That's my point and I hope you memorize it.
 
Originally posted by Zrow
But the torque!
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hippo.jpg
 
How do all these vehicles you mentioned above compare in towing ability to eachother?

What are the curb weights of these vehicles. Doesn't the Durango signifigantly outweigh the Explorer?
Is the Hemi more geared toward towing and load capacity than straight line acceleration.

But you're right, who cares how fast any truck or SUV can get to 60. If I wanted something that can get me to 60 fast, I sure as hell wouldn't be looking into buying a SUV. I'm sure the general car buying public may feel the same.
 
Well, I agree with Boom. When I think of trucks and/or SUV I don’t really care for 0-60 times or ¼ mile. Although I know there are some quick trucks and SUVs, Dodge SRT-10 and Infiniti FX45 comes in to mind, although they are relatively fast if I was going for speed, I wouldn’t even consider those.

I am sick of those dodge hemi commercials, gets old after a while.

Who else is afraid of hippos now?
 
In a truck it doesn't really matter about the straight line, its about whether or not the...dare I say torque in fear of the hippo. In a truck its all about pulling power, my buudy has a F-250 and while its slow as all hell I'd be will to bet it could pull my garage off the foundation.

The commercials come off all wrong, the truck isn't fast by any means but it does have the power. But I wouldn't consider buying a Ram anyhow, I think they look like a beaten semi. Much rather own the nice F-150.
 
I'm going to say one thing

Your a dumbass!
 
Originally posted by M5Power
The current Dodge Durango does 0-60 in 8.2 seconds with its 330-horsepower 5.7L Hemi engine.

The current Ford Explorer does 0-60 in 8.4 seconds with its 239-horsepower 4.6L non-Hemi engine.

The current Lexus GX470 does 0-60 in 7.7 seconds with its 235-horspower 4.7L non-Hemi engine.

The current GMC Envoy XL does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds with its 290-horsepower 5.3L non-Hemi engine.

MEANWHILE

The current Dodge Ram does 0-60 in 9.5 seconds with its 345-horsepower 5.7L Hemi engine.

The current Nissan Titan does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds with its 305-horsepower 5.6L non-Hemi engine.

The current Ford F-150 does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds with its 300-horsepower 5.4L non-Hemi engine.

The current Chevrolet Silverado does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds with its 295-horsepower 5.3L non-Hemi engine.
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Although the HEMI hype is notably and obviously profound I've got to question your sources.

Motortrend says the Durango does the 0-60 sprint in 8 seconds flat, which is faster by a large margin than the Tahoe, Expedition and Sequoia. The Armada was a lot quicker than the rest to 60, but as you can see from the quarter mile times the Durango would have caught up and passed the Armada not long after.

Motortrend also says the Ram 2500 Quad Cab does 0-60 in 8.1 seconds:2003 TOTY Data
Invariably the lighter Ram 1500 Regular Cab would be even faster.

Not that any of this really matters in 5000+lbs trucks. The Chrysler 300C, Hemi-equipped of course, does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds according to Car & Driver, which is faster than, say, the lighter and more powerful Pontiac GTO...
 
Anyone care to explain to me why 0 - 60 times matter in large SUVs and heavy work trucks?

Torque matters because no one cares about acceleration in these vehicles.
 
Originally posted by M5Power
The current Dodge Durango does 0-60 in 8.2 seconds with its 330-horsepower 5.7L Hemi engine.

The current Ford Explorer does 0-60 in 8.4 seconds with its 239-horsepower 4.6L non-Hemi engine.

The current Lexus GX470 does 0-60 in 7.7 seconds with its 235-horspower 4.7L non-Hemi engine.

The current GMC Envoy XL does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds with its 290-horsepower 5.3L non-Hemi engine.
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I'd also be interested to find out how these numbers were made.

After doing some research on the above vehicles at their perspective web sites, I've come to find out that each vehicle has an optional rear axle ratio.
Each axle ratio in each vehicle is different and they seem to be used to increase towing capacities. This I think really comes into play when analyzing 0-60 times. (Why we are analyzing 0-60 times of trucks and SUV's is beyond me.) If the Dodge comes with a standard rear axle ratio that is geared more towards towing, (3.55) then it is of course going to be slower getting to 60mph.

The HEMI powered Durango nearly crushes the competition with it's payload capacity (1680 lbs.), and towing capacity (8950 lbs.) So the HEMI does not suck versus the competition you have listed above. But it's an unfair test.

The Ford Explorers standard towing capacity is 3420 lbs, but can be equiped with a 3.73 (relatively close to the HEMI's, standard 3.55 rear axle.) rear axle to increase it's towing capacity to 7140 lbs. That's quite a signifigant difference, (but still 1810 lbs less than the standard HEMI Durango.) Wonder how Fords 3.73 axle plays on it's acceleration times?

The Lexus GX has a towing capacity of 5000 lbs and with a different rear axle, towing is increased to 6500. Lexus did not provide figures on the exact ratio. But towing capacity is 2450 lbs. less than the Durango.

The GMC Envoy XL has a towing capacity of 7100 lbs. with an optional rear 3.73 rear axle. The standard towing capacity is much less, but I don't have those figures in front of me.

This would leave me to believe that the HEMI powerd Durango is geared towards towing and payload capacities, standard. Where as the Ford, Lexus and GMC, while putting up slightly better 0-60 times, but not equally equiped (those tests were probably made with their standard rear axles whos ratios are much more appropriate for acceleration), lag signifigantly in towing and payload capacities without their rear axle options. But even with their optional rear axles, their abilities come nowhere close to Dodges HEMI Magnum powered vehicles.

So comparing the vehicles you have pitted against the, made for towing HEMI, your comparison is flawed. You should be comparing the Ford, Lexus and GMC's 0-60 times with thier optional rear axles. You have to compare all these vehicles with thier optional rear axles for this to be a valid arguement. I'd be willing to bet that the HEMI would stomp on them in a 0-60 run.

When this is all put into perspective, the HEMI is by far the best. And like The359 mentioned, "Anyone care to explain to me why 0 - 60 times matter in large SUVs and heavy work trucks?"
Well, they really don't matter. At least not to Dodge who seems to know what someone needs in a SUV or truck, which is pulling power.
I do suppose however, that the SUV driving soccer mom may need a SUV that get's to 60 a bit faster so she can merge into traffic better on her way to the supermarket. But I don't suppose this is the target market that Dodge was going after when they designed their HEMI Magnum engine.

The specs and common sense tell me that the HEMI Magnum, DOES NOT SUCK!
 
Okay, two things.

1. 0-60 times matter on SUVs and trucks when Dodge starts claiming that they have the most powerful engine in the class which - we've all seen - can outgun hicks in some modified dragster. When the engine turns out to not be all that good, it really does matter.

2. Towing? Come on, guys. Truck and SUV drivers, particularly the second group - spend an astonishingly low percentage of their time towing. Think five percent. Trucks advertise towing constantly, but it just doesn't work that way.

By the way, the reason the 0-60 time of the Ram at 8.1 seconds is absolutely absurd. I was quoting times of 4WD pickups and that one is 2WD but that shouldn't account for 1.4 seconds on the time. I think Motor Trend wants it to be 8.1 because they like the Hemi just as much as BlazinXtreme.
 
Originally posted by M5Power
Okay, two things.

1. 0-60 times matter on SUVs and trucks when Dodge starts claiming that they have the most powerful engine in the class which - we've all seen - can outgun hicks in some modified dragster. When the engine turns out to not be all that good, it really does matter.
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But the engine is good. I do think that particular commercial is a bit blown out of proportion, but are you really that persuaded by advertising?

2. Towing? Come on, guys. Truck and SUV drivers, particularly the second group - spend an astonishingly low percentage of their time towing. Think five percent. Trucks advertise towing constantly, but it just doesn't work that way.
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I'd agree with you completely that there is a very low percentage of people towing. That's why the HEMI Magnum engine is an "option" in it's "Limited" edition Durango. The fact that it's an option seems to me that Dodge realizes that there are a low percentage of people out there doing a lot of towing. But to someone that does do a lot of towing, there is an option out there for them and Dodge realizes this and is trying to provide for them. An option that no other manufacture can come close to.

If I recall correctly, there are at least 2 other engine choices that can come with the Durango. Why don't you compare those engines 0-60 times with the other vehicles you have mentioned?
 
Originally posted by boombexus
But the engine is good. I do think that particular commercial is a bit blown out of proportion, but are you really that persuaded by advertising?
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No, but Dodge's claiming the engine is good when it's really not except at towing, and if all it's good at is towing then it's no damn good. I've had twelve zillion SUVs and I haven't towed **** and I don't plan to start towing in the next seventy five thousand decades.

That's why the HEMI Magnum engine is an "option" in it's "Limited" edition Durango. The fact that it's an option seems to me that Dodge realizes that there are a low percentage of people out there doing a lot of towing. But to someone that does do a lot of towing, there is an option out there for them and Dodge realizes this and is trying to provide for them. An option that no other manufacture can come close to.
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Rob, it's equipped in half of all Durangos sold. And that's because the Durango is such a damn pig that the other engines - a 4.7L V8 and a 3.7L V6 so slow it practically decelerates - provide such little power the Durango needs its 5.7L. So Dodge makes people buy the Hemi in order to get sub-10sec acceleration, then the people say, 'hey, this feels just like my 1997 Acura SLX' and Dodge laughs in their faces.

Why don't you compare those engines 0-60 times with the other vehicles you have mentioned?
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Because I don't want to embarass Dodge? The base engine is a 210hp 3.7L V6 borrowed from the Jeep Liberty that manages 0-60 in a fun little 12.5secs. It can't even beat the damn hybrid cars. The 4.7 does 10.2secs to sixty. The Hemi has more power than competitors but similar acceleration. Why go for the Hemi?

Dodge makes a 2.7, a 3.7, a 4.7, and a 5.7. That's so damn cool!
 
You know doug, Klos is right. Hemis rock because they're ****ing HEMIS!!!

I want me a 300c. Doug, will you buy me one? Please? I'll be your bestest friend.....
 
If the Ram is slower to 60 than it's competitors, it seems to me that would be a reason to say the Ram sucks. It's not necessarily the engine's fault that the Ram is slower.
 
Originally posted by M5Power


No, but Dodge's claiming the engine is good when it's really not except at towing, and if all it's good at is towing then it's no damn good. I've had twelve zillion SUVs and I haven't towed **** and I don't plan to start towing in the next seventy five thousand decades.
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Are you basing the entire engines worth only on 0-60 times? 0-60 times are not the sole and only factor that decides a well made engine.
The engine was specifically made for towing, yes. That's why the engine is an option. If you don't tow ****, and don't plan on towing **** for the next seventy five thousand decades, then don't get the HEMI. But what makes that engine not good if it does exactly what it was intended to do, and do it extremely well?

Rob, it's equipped in half of all Durangos sold. And that's because the Durango is such a damn pig that the other engines - a 4.7L V8 and a 3.7L V6 so slow it practically decelerates - provide such little power the Durango needs its 5.7L. So Dodge makes people buy the Hemi in order to get sub-10sec acceleration, then the people say, 'hey, this feels just like my 1997 Acura SLX' and Dodge laughs in their faces.
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But Dodge made a smart move by calling that engine a HEMI. People remember the HEMI engine and remember is colorful history and awe inspiring power and they now want it in their SUV. The buyer wants the name, that is how Dodge suckered all those poeple that really don't need a HEMI in their Durango into getting one.

Smart move there Dodge.



Because I don't want to embarass Dodge? The base engine is a 210hp 3.7L V6 borrowed from the Jeep Liberty that manages 0-60 in a fun little 12.5secs. It can't even beat the damn hybrid cars. The 4.7 does 10.2secs to sixty. The Hemi has more power than competitors but similar acceleration. Why go for the Hemi?
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Don't forget about the 3.55 standard axle ratio that resides in all Durangos. It's much higher than any of the other competitions. It's not the engine that sucks, it's the rear axle that sucks.
 
Originally posted by M5Power

By the way, the reason the 0-60 time of the Ram at 8.1 seconds is absolutely absurd. I was quoting times of 4WD pickups and that one is 2WD but that shouldn't account for 1.4 seconds on the time. I think Motor Trend wants it to be 8.1 because they like the Hemi just as much as BlazinXtreme.
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I never said I like the Hemi. Its a good engine no doubt but I think they are highly overated.
 
Originally posted by boombexus
But Dodge made a smart move by calling that engine a HEMI. People remember the HEMI engine and remember is colorful history and awe inspiring power and they now want it in their SUV. The buyer wants the name, that is how Dodge suckered all those poeple that really don't need a HEMI in their Durango into getting one.

Smart move there Dodge.
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Douglas. Doug. Duh.

This is exactly what you were saying BMW should do during that long, drawn out "Sport vs. Image" discussion we had. You were saying that BMW should make soft, cushy cars that look just like the harder-edges performance models, and cash in on their brand image as the luxury sports leader, without inconveniencing soft cushy drivers with such tribulations as firm, responsive suspensions, etc.

In other words, BMW should sell their name by producing cars that will cash in on the image without providing the substance.

So why are you lambasting Dodge for doing just that?
 
Originally posted by TS1AWD
300C HEMI 14.2 quarter stock
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Not to mention its 5.8 0-60 in a 4100 pound car

Ram 1500 SLT 6.8 seconds

An engine cant be overrated if the vehical its in weights 2 and a half tons
 
Here is a game for you guys. Which one doesnt belong?
0403phr_hemi_04_z.jpg

0403phr_hemi_03_z.jpg

392heads1.jpg


The first one is the new Hemi. The 2nd is a Gen III GM V8 (could be the LS1, I dunno). And the Last is the original Hemi. As you can see, the new hemi is closer in shape to the "bathtub" or "heart" combustion chamber found on most OHV engines today than the hemispherical combustion chamber of the original hemi. Why? The benefit of having the Hemi shape was to decrease valve shrouding, as the valave opened the intake/exhaust path was not partially blocked by the bore wall. Also, it put the spark plug inthe center, resulting in a more even burn. But with that huge displacement in the head, the only way to obtain decent compression was to have a huge bump on the pison top, and this would destroy the flamefront and ruin the burn. Also, getting those valve angles using rockers and pushrods needs some wacky geometry, resulting in high-rpm frictional losses. With todays good gas, compression is much important, and engine have to keep on cooking beyond 4000 RPM. Mopar engineers make the smartest desing using todays understanding. And Hemi is just a marketing ploy. It could not be more obvious.

When compared to the Gen III GM V8 and the Ford modular engine, the Hemi measures up. And these are its true competitors. Citing 0-60 times dosent mean ****, look at HP figures, emissions, and gas consumption (as well as modification potential, if you swing that way).
 
Nice analysis, skip. Check out the tiny valves on the 'real' hemi head. It didn't breathe that well, did it?


M
 
Originally posted by boombexus
Are you basing the entire engines worth only on 0-60 times? 0-60 times are not the sole and only factor that decides a well made engine.
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Well, 0-60 as a base for every other acceleration statistic you can think of because it'd lose all those too. I just haven't got 1/4 mile times, partially because I don't give a damn.

The engine was specifically made for towing, yes. That's why the engine is an option. If you don't tow ****, and don't plan on towing **** for the next seventy five thousand decades, then don't get the HEMI.
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So then I have to get the 230hp 4.7, the least-powerful V8 in its class, and do 0-60 in 10.2 seconds?! I hate this SUV!!!

But Dodge made a smart move by calling that engine a HEMI. People remember the HEMI engine and remember is colorful history and awe inspiring power and they now want it in their SUV. The buyer wants the name, that is how Dodge suckered all those poeple that really don't need a HEMI in their Durango into getting one.

Smart move there Dodge.
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I agree entirely.

In other words, BMW should sell their name by producing cars that will cash in on the image without providing the substance.

So why are you lambasting Dodge for doing just that?
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BMW and Dodge aren't the same thing!!! I'll hunt you down!

I said BMW should give the drivers who don't want to feel every pebble a ride that makes it so we don't have to. A good point-four percent of you losers want the ride BMW gives in a good thirty percent of their models.
 
Originally posted by Doug
So then I have to get the 230hp 4.7, the least-powerful V8 in its class, and do 0-60 in 10.2 seconds?!
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No. You go buy the GMC Envoy XL. After looking at it, it's probably the best in the bunch considering acceleration, towing and payload capabilities.


I Hate this SUV!!!
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Agreed. I'm not a fan of it either. It's exterior styling is hideous.



By the way, Lexus rates the 0-60 time of it's GX model as 8.5 seconds. That's almost a full second off the time you posted above. I've also seen 0-60 times for the Durango in the 7's. What gives?
Also, what's the big difference between 8.2 seconds and 7.8 second 0-60 times? It's such a miniscule amount of time and even more redundant when comparing SUV's.
 

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