The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter Duke
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I think homosexuality is:

  • a problem that needs to be cured.

    Votes: 88 6.0%
  • a sin against God/Nature.

    Votes: 145 9.8%
  • OK as long as they don't talk about it.

    Votes: 62 4.2%
  • OK for anybody.

    Votes: 416 28.2%
  • nobody's business but the people involved.

    Votes: 765 51.8%

  • Total voters
    1,476
It’s not an easy topic so I totally understand how someone might change opinions over time. I also thought it was horrendous before I finally accepted my sexuality. I even insulted many gays before I did come out. Shame is a powerful tool to suppress one’s hability to express himself.
I've gotten myself in trouble before for posting here but I'll say that sexual "mores" always change or adjust to new times. Sexual behavior is incredibly adaptable as are humans. What middle eastern folks call a marriage Americans call rape. What in Europe age of consent is a lot lower than the USA. American people change their sexual behavior and desires to match laws. The same goes for gays in the middle East. Now is it harder to change sexual attraction, certainly. In fact it's the hardest perhaps but your post proves people adjust to family and social norms.
 
I've gotten myself in trouble before for posting here but I'll say that sexual "mores" always change or adjust to new times. Sexual behavior is incredibly adaptable as are humans. What middle eastern folks call a marriage Americans call rape. What in Europe age of consent is a lot lower than the USA. American people change their sexual behavior and desires to match laws. The same goes for gays in the middle East. Now is it harder to change sexual attraction, certainly. In fact it's the hardest perhaps but your post proves people adjust to family and social norms.

Not what I was trying to say. I was repressing my feelings so I attacked the people who represented that side of me. Once I accepted my homosexuality, I felt a huge weight off my shoulders and apologized to many people I had hurt over the years.
 
Huh? Are we talking about the same America? Other countries seem to view America as quite backward in that regard. Particularly compared to Europe.
Yeah I was just saying about how different cultures ban diff types of sex. Like you see with the USA very stringent laws compared to the EU countries in the sexual offender category. Europe itself hadn't fallen victim to stringent sexuality regulation in modern times which makes it an outlier compared to Asia, Africa, USA. South America I suppose along with Australia are pretty relaxed. So that leaves USA and Africa as being rather hardcore. I do feel though that cultures show us how adaptable humans are. Imagine the most flamboyant feminist gay guy in would act having been born in Saudi Arabia...mind you not many get arrested over there, crime is super low despite very stringent cultural norms.
 
Yeah I was just saying about how different cultures ban diff types of sex. Like you see with the USA very stringent laws compared to the EU countries in the sexual offender category.
Presumably they're less stringent if the offender marries the victim first? According to the article those child marriages were legal because the brides' parents okayed them.
 
Have you heard of the singer Jerry Lee Lewis at least?

I had not heard about his marriage (reading through the wikipedia article now). 22 and 13 is pretty bad. It's not as bad as some of the other examples, but it's pretty bad. That was... 1958? Yea I didn't hear about it.
 
Any adult that looks at someone that young & has sexual thoughts, is sick & needs a help. A lot of help :odd:
 
Any adult that looks at someone that young & has sexual thoughts, is sick & needs a help. A lot of help :odd:

Presuming that we define adult as "at age of consent"... what if they were 15 the day before but now they're sixteen and they're looking at their girlfriend/boyfriend whose 16th birthday is still a few weeks away?

Furthermore, shouldn't we be policing actions rather than thought?
 
I'm not on for having paedophilia reclassified as a sexual orientation, but if someone confesses to having sexual thoughts and desires about children but hasn't acted on them, then they haven't really done anything wrong. However, it would be wise to keep a very close eye on them.
 
Presuming that we define adult as "at age of consent"... what if they were 15 the day before but now they're sixteen and they're looking at their girlfriend/boyfriend whose 16th birthday is still a few weeks away?

Furthermore, shouldn't we be policing actions rather than thought?
I should've quoted @Danoff 's post about Jerry Lee Lewis.
I'm not on for having paedophilia reclassified as a sexual orientation, but if someone confesses to having sexual thoughts and desires about children but hasn't acted on them, then they haven't really done anything wrong. However, it would be wise to keep a very close eye on them.
^This
 
I'm sorry the current topic of conversation has taken this thread so far off topic. It should of course go without saying that the behaviour of child abusers in no way reflects upon adult, consenting homosexuals and no inference should be drawn between the two groups.

Presuming that we define adult as "at age of consent"... what if they were 15 the day before but now they're sixteen and they're looking at their girlfriend/boyfriend whose 16th birthday is still a few weeks away?
Your hypothesis reminds me of the murder of William Elliott for having sex with his girlfriend two weeks before her sixteenth birthday when he was nineteen. His behaviour was questionable but the murderer Stephen Marshall was unquestionably sick. Someone should have been keeping a close eye on him.

https://web.archive.org/web/2015092...r-the-bitter-legacy-of-megans-law-405254.html
 
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but if someone confesses to having sexual thoughts and desires about children but hasn't acted on them, then they haven't really done anything wrong.

👍

However, it would be wise to keep a very close eye on them.

Also @Pete05

How would you go about doing that without violating the rights of an innocent person? I'm not being passive aggressive, I'm genuinely curious.

Also, would you say the same about someone who has rape fantasies?
 
Roo
👍



Also @Pete05

How would you go about doing that without violating the rights of an innocent person? I'm not being passive aggressive, I'm genuinely curious.

Also, would you say the same about someone who has rape fantasies?

I imagine there are fairly straightforward ways of tracking someone's browser history, that would be a good place to start. And with rape, yes, since in both cases it's someone confessing to desires to commit crimes, no different from someone saying they're thinking of killing a particular person.
 
I imagine there are fairly straightforward ways of tracking someone's browser history, that would be a good place to start. And with rape, yes, since in both cases it's someone confessing to desires to commit crimes, no different from someone saying they're thinking of killing a particular person.

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Uh... no. Having a fantasy is not the same thing as thinking of actually doing it. Also, being attracted to someone is not the same thing as thinking of acting on it. I'm attracted to lots of women, and yet I manage to stay in a monogamous relationship...
 
Thoughts of rape or child molestation are not quite the same as merely thinking that girl you walked past is hot. Adultery is not illegal for one...
 
Thoughts of rape or child molestation are not quite the same as merely thinking that girl you walked past is hot.
Except for being thoughts that are not acted upon, in which case they are very similar indeed.
Adultery is not illegal for one...
Except in places where it is, of course.

And since we're in the homosexuality thread, thinking another guy is hot isn't quite the same as thinking about rape or child molestation. Except in places where being gay is just as illegal. And in fact there are places where being gay is very illegal (as in being sentenced to the most painful death you can imagine illegal), but raping a child - even one of the same gender, because it's only gay between adults - isn't, so thinking another guy is hot would be worse than thinking about raping a little boy...

You can't rely on what's legal/illegal for what's right. Or sensible. Or even sane.


Ultimately, the point is that thinking about doing anything isn't something anyone should be punished for. Researching how to do it, planning it and then actually doing it, sure. Thinking about it? No. Thought police have no place in a civilised society.
 
There is such thing as intrusive thought.

It would suck for anyone if this was enforced and suddenly had an intrusive thought about a child and got immediately arrested for it :lol:
 
I never said you should be arrested for thinking something. But if you openly tell someone you'd had thoughts of raping, molesting or cheating on someone, that's gonna set off alarm bells in anyone's head and be cause for concern.
 
But if you openly tell someone you'd had thoughts of raping, molesting or cheating on someone, that's gonna set off alarm bells in anyone's head and be cause for concern.
Thoughts of rape or child molestation are not quite the same as merely thinking that girl you walked past is hot. Adultery is not illegal for one...
That aside, you're now moving away from thoughts and onto actions.

Thinking about sexy kids isn't the same as telling someone you think that a kid is sexy. Or Tweeting it, although the fact that's in Spain where the age of consent is 14 again points to the fact that laws shouldn't be the benchmark for what's okay and what isn't.

That said if you tell another consenting adult and you act out your schoolgirl/rape fetish (and there's costumes and equipment on sale for that sort of thing) with them in the privacy of the home, that's still quite some distance from what should be concerning to - or any business of - other people.
 
There is such thing as intrusive thought.

It would suck for anyone if this was enforced and suddenly had an intrusive thought about a child and got immediately arrested for it :lol:

I never said you should be arrested for thinking something. But if you openly tell someone you'd had thoughts of raping, molesting or cheating on someone, that's gonna set off alarm bells in anyone's head and be cause for concern.

That aside, you're now moving away from thoughts and onto actions.

Thinking about sexy kids isn't the same as telling someone you think that a kid is sexy. Or Tweeting it, although the fact that's in Spain where the age of consent is 14 again points to the fact that laws shouldn't be the benchmark for what's okay and what isn't.

That said if you tell another consenting adult and you act out your schoolgirl/rape fetish (and there's costumes and equipment on sale for that sort of thing) with them in the privacy of the home, that's still quite some distance from what should be concerning to - or any business of - other people.

In response to all of the above and in general...

It seems as though, culturally, some have turned a corner thinking that human beings are just out of control. They've switched off any notion of people having self-restraint, judgment, and personal responsibility in favor of a society where the government is supposed to think for you.

I can take enjoyment in thoughts that I have no intention of acting on. As an example, if I conceive of a hilarious prank on someone, I might giggle about that for hours, and even share it with others, and never even consider executing it because I know that it would cause more harm than good to the prankee. That's an innocent example, but it's indicative of entertaining enjoyable thoughts that you choose not to act on. I may enjoy the thought of eating a large dessert or a basket of french fries and choose to forgo acting on that because I'm not a slave to my biological impulses. That's why, by in large, many people are able to avoid becoming rapists, despite finding other people attractive, and even indulging in fantasies about being with those people. Beyond just avoiding rape, many people manage to be monogamous.

I'm a little disturbed by the number of people who do not seem to realize this. Pornographic materials for example offer a fantastic opportunity that so many people don't seem to appreciate. You do not need to actually try everything you see in porn. I know, this is a wild concept. But it is possible to enjoy watching people do things that you have absolutely zero interest in taking part in. To some people, that may seem impossible. To others, it may seem painfully obvious. To demonstrate to the latter group, consider the angry significant other that discovers that you have viewed pornographic materials and is jealous. This misunderstands what the brain is capable of. To the former group, consider an action movie in which the hero shoots a bunch of bad people. Did you enjoy that? Did you actually want to go shoot people?

Violent video games, movies, artwork, and fantasies are not things that human beings will necessarily act on. We are capable of self-control and rational thought. Pornographic materials can offer a way to view something intriguing (and sometimes even physically impossible in the case of pornographic artwork) without actually requiring that the person desire to participate. I've never shot a single person, and have no interest in doing so, but I've killed a lot of people, sometimes in graphic ways, in video games and enjoyed it. And I've many times watched explicit materials and thought to myself "that does not look like fun", and kept watching. These kinds of fantasies or indulgences can be (not necessarily always) a release that actually reduces the urge to act on those fantasies. And it's for that reason that I think particular pornographic artwork has a place for pedophiles - anything that doesn't hurt people and helps prevent a pedophile from harming children is a good thing.

TL;DR - we are not slaves to our biology.

Edit: You know I had never considered this before, but this impression that adults must try everything they think of might result from assuming that adults behave and think like children.

Edit 2: I think it's far more valuable to view people as responsible individuals than biological automatons, even for dangerous and scary propositions like mass-murder and pedophilia. If we pretend that a violent videogame, or elicit artwork or rendering might cause someone to go act out some horrific violence on the people around them, to an extent, we excuse that behavior. They couldn't help it, they were exposed to suggestive material. The reality is that this is not an excuse. To the extent that we hold these kinds of stimulus responsible for the behavior, we remove that responsibility from the person who actually committed the act. And that's wrong to do.
 
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Ive always read whenever I've read, about the statutory rape laws in my country the usa, about how close age exceptions do not exist specifically for gays. For example in texas., the law allows for an 18 year old presumably to have sex with his 15 yo girlfriend. However this same act for.......A same sex situation carries large prison time and or life time registry. Something to think about anyways.
 
Ive always read whenever I've read, about the statutory rape laws in my country the usa, about how close age exceptions do not exist specifically for gays. For example in texas., the law allows for an 18 year old presumably to have sex with his 15 yo girlfriend. However this same act for.......A same sex situation carries large prison time and or life time registry. Something to think about anyways.

I actually used this example the other day, or something very similar. To anyone in the US who thinks that it should be permissible for a 15 year old girl to marry a 30 year old man with the permission of her parents, even if for religious reasons, consider whether you'd be on board for a 15 year old boy to marry a 30 year old man... still cool? There's nothing fundamentally different about it.
 
Ive always read whenever I've read, about the statutory rape laws in my country the usa, about how close age exceptions do not exist specifically for gays. For example in texas., the law allows for an 18 year old presumably to have sex with his 15 yo girlfriend. However this same act for.......A same sex situation carries large prison time and or life time registry. Something to think about anyways.
Do we know this to be true?
 
Do we know this to be true?
I would say it is true in any state without a so called close in age excemption. It is especially true in those states like Wisconsin. Ironically in texas gay activity amongst those minors will be legal due to a supreme court decision in 2003 which legalized gay sex acts in around a dozen states, and the judges on the supreme court ruled a state's "romeo and juliet law" must apply to same sex activity. gay pornography also at that point in 2003 would have been illegal contraband similar to child porn in the states that banned sodomy or gay sex acts.

To simplify this, think of it this way. Almost all the states that criminalizes homosexuality also passed romeo juliet laws for staight minors while some of the states that legalized gay sodomy between 2 or more adults democratically (30 ish states) do not have close in age excemption laws for minors. So.... if your a gay minor in the usa some "red states" although still with gay sex explicitly banned is probably safer than a "blue state" like Wisconsin or California which has no close in age legal sex. The reason for this I believe has to do with republicans not thinking ahead of time.... They meant to make it easier for straight minors to have sex while criminalizing gay acts harshly amongst minors but in that moment failed to believe the supreme court would force those romeo juliet laws to apply to gay teens. Hence the interesting situation where legally texas or Kansas or Oklahoma law is more on the side of a gay teen than California or Wisconsin law which makes a felony out of two 17 year olds of identical age engaging in "sodomy" or non vaginal penetration. California is known to be bad, elderly gay men who were arrested in the 1960s for adult consential sex have still been listed mandatorially as California does not allow petitions for removal I do not believe.
 
Despite being seen as one of the most liberal countries in Asia, and they also live in the future, apparently they also manage to be stuck in the past.

Taiwain rejected gay marriage, as in the eyes of the people it is a bond between a man and a woman.
 
Despite being seen as one of the most liberal countries in Asia, and they also live in the future, apparently they also manage to be stuck in the past.

Taiwain rejected gay marriage, as in the eyes of the people it is a bond between a man and a woman.
Bizarre. I wonder who it was that designed the referendum questions.

A referendum calling for marriage to only be recognised as between a man and a woman in Taiwan’s civil code won more than 7m votes, while another calling for same-sex unions to be regulated under a separate law gained more than 6m. Gay rights activists had proposed that the civil code should give same-sex couples equal marriage rights, but only garnered 3m votes.
 
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