The "I have GT5P image quality issues!" Thread
- Thread starter Solid Lifters
- 186 comments
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- 6,599
- Lincoln
- Speedster502
Mines fine. No smeary-ess or anything which makes my gaming experience diss-pleasurable.
Is this confirmed?
I wouldn't really be suprised if it was the case, but if it's true. one could only wonder why they didn't go the whole way and just rendered at 720p, it's still a lot of resolution anyway.
By the way, care to link your source for this? this is the first time i've read this claim.
There's nothing "wrong" with the game, they are just noticing a few artifacts such as loss of Vsync evry now and then. (very rare.) which you probably haven't noted, but i assure you you also have.
Low resolution shadows. (this is more common than people realize, i guess people aren't used to seeing realtime shadows in their games yet.. but latley it's gotten better in the PC game scene, and jaggies in shadows are now bearly noticable. i think the PS3 has no problem doing that either.. just not at 1080p.)
I got the not 1080P from that same source......1280x1080 from quaz...requires scaling....scaling makes things flicker more.
I do not think it is cool for PD to say 1080p....1280x1080 is not 1080P. They should say HD or something. Who cares about the garage. It looks great but it is not gameplay and I would hope they could do in 1920x1200 and it looks different. No flicker....
As far as 60fps....
I took the last little turn before the finish on the track in the sad little daihatsu(i like it)
There was 4 cars right in front of me. As I turned the four cars passed in front of my view at the same time. The game easily dipped below the human eye 24fps. It stuttered so bad I oversteered and went off the track.
Also when this happens the v sync goes off and it looks like the top half of the car moves first and then the bottom half.
In PD's defense, the bright track and too dark cockpit and too light outside bring out these flaws on my TV.
I have never driven a car during the day and had a black unviewable cockpit 60 percent of the time.
Now all this maybe be because of a setup or tv issue....I hope it is. I tried 720P. Reduced the flicker in the distance and also on the backs of the cars I got black scrolling diagonal lines....those were less.
I guess with this game I expected that crystal clear, maybe less detailed tracks, but crystal 1080p gameplay. GTHD hinted at this and I assumed GT5P would take this further. I want to see a car 2-3 seconds in front of me that looks like a car. Not a blob of white shimmery lines. Up close the cars are terrific.
Anyway...I hope it is my setup and not the game.
It's the way consumers like you think that is the reason PD is probably chosing 1080p.
Lets put out a few facts straight, yes. more resolution gives you more detail, and this will be more apparent the bigger your screen is, or the closer you sit to it.
But, we have to realize here. that high resolution stops being so important if you are sacrificing valuable fillrate that prevents the RSX from doing the job it was intended to do in the first place. (lots of shaders, high res shadows, realistic lightning. Antialias, anistropic filtering, etc.)
Because, if you starve the videochip from bandwidth from just uping the resolution you won't be able to put in any of the effects that can make a PS3 game truly "next-gen".
Sure i have no problem with them running some content at 1080p, such as those PSN minigames that they sell, or PS2 ports.
But for a "next-gen" game you need all the fillrate you can get, and 1080p is not gonna help any in this department.
I wish PD would just drop 1080p alltogether and stop advertising what resolution they run at, they could run at 720p or slightly below it and the resolution would still be very satisfactory. (you really wouldn't hear any complains.)
And the gains they would get would be phenomenal.
So whats important is to stop thinking that 1080p is somehow going to make the game a fillrate starved game look better, it's not.
So, if it is true that the game runs at 1280x1080, i wouldn't have any objections other than they should've gone further. since it's widely known the RSX just doesn't have enough fillrate to do 1080p with all the effects it was designed to do.
And by the way, i'm pretty sure the game never drops to 24 FPS, the effect of having the framerate jump between 40-60 can make it look as if it did, but it doesn't mean that's whats going on.
if you have a decent videocard and a monitor with high res, just go download any PC demo that is fillrate limited and start playing around with the resolutions and you'll see what i mean.
The answer is, No.
First off, 1080i would look considerably worse than 720p, for numerous reasons.
One of them being lots of intercale artifacts, which is the worse side effect of this, 1080i, in no way looks better than 720p.
Most new TV's don't even have native 1080i support anymore, because they are fixed pixel displays. 1080i was a bad idea to begin with, intercaled stuff looks bad compared to progressive because of the intercale artifacts, but in videogames it's even worse.
1080i upscaled video looks fine if you upscale it or downscale it to either 1080p or 720p, all the data is there to make a true 1080p frame, this is with video however, not videogames.
You can't have a scaler take a frame in advance since this isn't pre-rendered video we're talking about here, but realtime generated data.
The result is you end up with a lot less visible pixels anyway.
For any modern display that is a fixed pixel display progressive will just look much, much better. Specially if you can get rid of the scaler alltogether so there's no video delay from the scaler.
(by getting rid of the scaler i mean, having the game run at the native resolution of your display, this isn't too much of an issue if it's a progresive to progresive conversion, but it's a little more of an issue with intercaled material.)
So, 1080i is not better than 720p in any way when it comes to videogames, and when it comes to video only if you're upscaling to 1080p with a really good de-intercaller.
So, if you don't have a NATIVE 1080i display, (only CRT's support it native.)
You should try to avoid running 1080i at all costs. always set your PS3 to the native resolution of your display.
- 6,599
- Lincoln
- Speedster502
- 2,061
No offense to anyone in this thread, but this thread, in fact, is pathetic.
The best looking racer, with a 16 car grid, better physics, and drastically improved AI over past GT's, and you're freaking complaining about JAGGIES!?!
Get a life, or something serious.
They are jaggies, if you haven't noticed with nearly every next generation game (to include PGR4, Forza 2, NFS Prostreet, Burnout Paradise, Motorstorm, F1, and many MANY more racing titles) then please get your eye's checked.
Simply put, this doesn't even deserve it's own thread, it's not an issue, at all. There are jaggies, deal with it.
The best looking racer, with a 16 car grid, better physics, and drastically improved AI over past GT's, and you're freaking complaining about JAGGIES!?!
Get a life, or something serious.
They are jaggies, if you haven't noticed with nearly every next generation game (to include PGR4, Forza 2, NFS Prostreet, Burnout Paradise, Motorstorm, F1, and many MANY more racing titles) then please get your eye's checked.
Simply put, this doesn't even deserve it's own thread, it's not an issue, at all. There are jaggies, deal with it.
Solid Lifters
In Memoriam
- 19,311
- Inland Empire SoCal
- SOLID_LIFTERS
It's not all about jaggies. GTHD had a few jaggies. Big deal. It looked fantastic. But, on my set, this game has far more than just a few jaggies. It looks bad. There are jaggies all over the place. Line crawl, smearing, distortion and even horizontal line crawl. I've only seen that on my DVD converted videos stored on my PS3, which look slightly worse than this demo.
I'm not happy at all with the video quality. The videos looked awesome and GTHD looks awesome, in comparison. So, why does this demo look so bad on my set, and not yours? Since you think this thread is 'pathetic,' it appears you have all the answers. Do tell.
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
So much bad info (and some good)... rather than waste hours trying to explain why Kamus is wrong and for that to get blown up into yet another meaningless online argument, I strongly suggest anyone that is interested to do some research on the difference between progressive and interlaced video.
There is a lot of misunderstanding on the advantages and disadvantages of interlaced video.
Also, just to make sure no one gets the wrong idea from Kamus' post - he is also very wrong about how most new TV's not supporting native 1080i anymore because they are progressive. Or at least he did a very poor job clarifying his point.
First of all, fixed pixel displays can never display interlaced signals of any kind in their "native" form... but they certainly can accept interlaced signals... and display them progressively. That's why nearly all of them have deinterlacers and scalers built-in, and they still do to this day, and will likely continue to for many years to come.
So to be clear, nearly all fixed pixel displays now and most likely in the future can accept an interlaced signal, and if they are HDTVs, then they will accept a 1080i signal as well.
I would also point out that Kamus is making a very personal and subjective opinion about 1080i being "a bad idea"... again, a little knowledge and research into the history of interlaced video will go along way to understanding why many would disagree with him, as well as better understanding the advantages to using 1080i in certain situations even today, and in the future.
He has also made what appears to be objective criticism on the effect video processors (deinterlacers, scalers, etc) have on the picture quality of a signal, and again, a little bit of research and you'll discover there are significant differences between video processors, and no longer does one have to spend $25,000 on a video processor to achieve superb results. Today's entry level $50 wholesale onboard processors wont cause any "delay" when scaling.
To sum it up though, there are advantages to interlaced and 1080i signals, they can be restored to the original progressive format, and nearly all fixed pixel displays will accept interlaced signals... many will not only accept them, but have excellent video processors that will not, as Kamus has suggested, delay the signal, add any noticeable deinterlacing artifacts, etc.... and the results from testing these displays proves that to be true.
Frankly, I don't know how much Kamus really understands video technology, or how much time he has actually spent testing and using displays over the last twenty or so years, as I have. I only know of him from what he has posted, his noticeable penchant for exaggerating, and most recently it was for a desire to own a 1080p display:
So take all that into consideration, and by all means, if you are concerned about the use of interlaced video, please read up on it... outside of public opinion forums. 👍
- 2,061
I could tell you day in and day out why you're being nit picky, and fickle, but in the end, your opinion isn't going to change, so why should I waste my time?
You seem to think that these small issues are effecting your enjoyment of the game, and if they are, I'm terribly sorry that is a problem for you. I enjoy having great AI, 16 cars on the track, and really really amazing lighting, if I have to deal with a few lighting issues, then so be it.
But, least of all, I have absolutely no idea why on gods green earth you seem to think this is 'set' related. It's not. TV's accept signals differently, get over it.
Let's not forget it's a DEMO.
Let's spell it, just to be clear.
D. E. M. O. The shortened term for 'demonstration'. This game demonstrates what the final game will hopefully be, and improve upon.
Not to mention it's literally a DEMO of an unfinished 'title' rather, the prologue to a game.
Yea, you're not being petty or fickle at all, please do carry on this oh so serious thread and it's game threatening issues. zomg indeed.
- 1,565
- Dammam, Saudi Arabia
- m7ammed84
I've tried this game on 2 LCD screens one is a Toshiba 32" and the other is a 26" Samsung(or 28 can't remember lol) and both PS3 are set to select automaticly the display settings through HDMI and the game looks good , non of the half the car moving or lines or anything just smooth
Solid Lifters
In Memoriam
- 19,311
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- SOLID_LIFTERS
Ah, so that's it! I'm being 'picky.'
Kthnxbai.
Kthnxbai.
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
Well it appears you may be right as he is not responding to our questions, and he is keeping with the "issues" title... so I guess the answer is that he does not want the title to be objective without any negative or positive connotations... and thus possibly not the thread as well?I'm sure my suggestion of "How does the GT5P demo look on your TV?" was too objective without any negative or positive connotations. Something tells me that is not what the goal was for the thread title.
Time to get on our flame retardant suits Kent!
Solid Lifters
In Memoriam
- 19,311
- Inland Empire SoCal
- SOLID_LIFTERS
I didn't like his title, so I went with my own, that was less 'flame bait' than the previous one. There's nothing wrong with that, is there?
- 2,061
Yea, actually, there is. You cried when MGS4 was 'yellow' and now you're shedding bitter tears because you're sad over some 'image quality issues'.
Maybe if you would have invested in a large DLP, you'd be much better off right now, instead of a tiny 46" that doesn't really benefit much from a 1080p signal.
Simply enough, if you think this issue is 'exclusive' to GT5, you don't play enough games. Maybe you should just stop playing games for say, a decade, and then when everything is 'up to your standard' you can make a return and then post how the wrinkles aren't clean enough in someones skin.
- 4,517
- Vancouver, BC
I have a 26 inch Phillips LCD with 768p, and I can't notice any difference between displaying in 720p and 1080i.
Solid Lifters
In Memoriam
- 19,311
- Inland Empire SoCal
- SOLID_LIFTERS
I know what I can do. I'll get Jak and Daxter. That game looks AWESOME! I've been playing that demo a lot, too.
I'll get both, and say, "Damn! GT5P is fun. It's too bad it looks like GT4, though." " Damn! Jak and Daxter is fun! And it looks AMAZING!"
Oh, and my HDTV set is better than yours! So, there!
- 11,462
- U.K
- Paganisterr
- Ak Paganister
Same here... Maybe the only difference is I get a slightly brighter image in 720p mode (darker bits of the tracks are lighter). Unless it's me imagining things, I can't think why changing the mode would make the graphics a tad lighter?
Show me an HDTV released in the past two years that supports NATIVE 1080i. (yes, i REALIZE that they accept intercaled signals, this doesn't mean it's native 1080i)
I don't think i did a poor job clarifying my point, i think i made it clear enough for him to understand.
there are no advantages to intercaled video over progressive, unless it's the only way your set can display an HDTV image. (again, this is only on OLD CRT's)
I think i made it perfectly clear that fixed pixel displays upscale intercaled signals (or downscale) to make them progressive.
I never said that HDTV's don't accept intercaled signals. i don't think you read my post well.
1080i WAS a bad idea, this isn't my subjetive opinion, this is a wide known fact, all you have to look is a the past two years of HDTV's and take notice, there are no 1080i displays being built anymore.
If it wasn't a bad idea it wouldnt have gone away as fast as it did from the HDTV market, the only reason 1080i was available in the first place was because all of the first HDTV's were CRT RPTV's, and the only way to get a high resolution image out of them was by intercaling the video on low end RP CRT's.
You go on to claim that 1080i is somehow going to be viable on the future, but there's absolutley no evidence for this, i don't know where you get your info man, i'm going to stick to my "limited knowledge" an say you're wrong.
You don't see the new HD-DVD's or blu-ray encoded intercaled, and there's a very good reason for this.
Then you get into the pricing of scalers.. im pretty sure i never said you needed to spend thousands of dollars on those, it is extremley obvious i'm talking about the HDTV's built in scaler. and the "delays" i'm reffering to are the ones caused by a poor HDTV scaler that can easily be avoided if you just choose to run your PS3 at the set's native resolution.
If you can avoid using the scaler, it's always going to yield better results on a videogame, always.
Then you go suggest that i'm saying this because i don't own a 1080p set? ok.. just what are you suggesting here? is this some sort of insult? calling me envious or something?
Ok... moving on.
Again, i don't know just how you can even concive that there are advantages to 1080i over a progressive signal, there aren't any in this day an age, intercaled signals are something we have to live with because DVD's are intercaled, old consoles are intercaled, old analog TV is intercaled and even some new HDTV channels are intercaled.
(You can argue otherwise, but what i'm seeing here is that if someone needs to do research on the history of display technology is you.)
If you own a progressive display you should NEVER set your ps3 to 1080i. use your displays native resolution if possible (most likley 720p or 1080p if you got a newer set.)
And by the way, i own a 3 video displays.
a 24" 16:10 2304 by 1440 @ 80 Hz display. (Sony CRT, probably the best looking CRT, too bad they stoped making them in 2003.)
a 720p DLP projector
and a 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i native direct view CRT (which is what i use for GT5 because of the way i got my steering wheel set up.)
Can you please share your so called advantages of intercaled video over progressive one? the signal itself please, don't go on and try to twist this to something like "well, it's better on a 1080i TV!".
I thought you were just missunderstanding my post (and i think you were in some areas) only, but then you kept talking about so called advantages of 1080i, 20 years of experience and you think this?
Sorry for alienating evryone else, but talk like this is missleading, if you own a progressive display. there are absolutley no advantages in having a 1080i signal over a progressive one for your PS3, not one.
(this is the PS3 we're discussing here mainly afterall.)
And by the way, a question for you and your LCD 1080p Projector.
is vertical banding still an issue in those? (off topic but whatever.)
I used to have a a PT AE500 (720p panny from a few years back.) and vertical banding was very annoying, eventually i just sold it and got a DLP instead, but if vertical banding isn't an issue then i might get another LCD in the future. (then again, it's hard to go back to subpar ANSI CR, but i haven't seen any of the new PJ's with D7 panels to make judgment on that yet.)
- 177
- Darth Turismo
I'm no expert but I agree with Jedi2016. It appears to me to be running very smoothly at 60fps (in game) with the occassional stutter.....
when running in 1080p mode it is much sharper in display and looks like a next gen game.... in 720p and especially 575p (our equiv to 480p) it does look closer to a ps2 game... but if i fire up my gt4 the differences are chalk n cheese!
As many have already stated I think we need to keep this constructive, yes we have all put huge huge expectations on this game and ultimately it was never ever going to live up to those expectations... however I re-iterate, it IS a works in progress demo.... and not the final product.
My only gripe is the tearing that is very apparent. Everyone has experienced it and the disapointing part is it was not in GTHD. So we have an identical car showroom in both GTHD and GT5P demo, one tears and the other doesn't! (regardless of res setting on display) I would suggest it is a glitch that pd will fix!! (fingers crossed)
- 939
- Home
- The_Ske
- PzR Ske
* Brand and Model # of TV set
SONY 32U2000
* Display Resolution of The Set (1080p, 1080i, etc.)
720p/1080i
* Resolution Output Setting of PS3
720p/1080i
* Connection Type (HDMI, Component, etc.)
HDMI
* What Country Are You In?
Norway
The image I get isn't obviously "faulty", but there are issues: A bit of jaggie artifacting going on, and the background sharpness tears the overall image apart and hurts the eyes. I think it's just down to how they code their "camera settings"... antialiasing (to smooth out foreground jaggies) and texture filtering (to enhance depth-of-field) should solve my issues.
SONY 32U2000
* Display Resolution of The Set (1080p, 1080i, etc.)
720p/1080i
* Resolution Output Setting of PS3
720p/1080i
* Connection Type (HDMI, Component, etc.)
HDMI
* What Country Are You In?
Norway
The image I get isn't obviously "faulty", but there are issues: A bit of jaggie artifacting going on, and the background sharpness tears the overall image apart and hurts the eyes. I think it's just down to how they code their "camera settings"... antialiasing (to smooth out foreground jaggies) and texture filtering (to enhance depth-of-field) should solve my issues.
- 20,145
- Australia
- VIPERGTS01
Frankly after switching from 1080i back to 720p I am very happy now with the image quality, I still see some jaggys in the garage, but in game and replays great.
I'm only running it on a 720p 42inch LG Plasma, which I wanted to replace with a 1080p set but now I am not in such a rush to do that.
I'm only running it on a 720p 42inch LG Plasma, which I wanted to replace with a 1080p set but now I am not in such a rush to do that.
- 6
Everyone is saying that its just the demo. They may improve upon it. Eons ago, wasn't the PS3 going to be released with GT5??? It should have been much better than it is (quality wise). I have no complaints...its smooth on my52" 1080. But noone else should have been having problems!
- 20,145
- Australia
- VIPERGTS01
Umm, not that I ever knew of. I do remember KY saying prior to PS3 release that a GT title is not as far away as people think (or something thing similar to that).
Unless you are talking about the scrapped GTHD that was going to be released around the PS3 launch? That was just a high res GT4 with a GT 'Premium' demo included (which now it appears GTHD demo was the 'premium' part).
- 8,047
- GTP_Royalton
Viewsonic 20" 720p LCD
DVI converted to HDMI
Like others I've noticed the shadows can be very jaggy and blocky at times, especially when the light hits at certain angles. The outline of the cars/doors etc gets messed up at times as well. There is also some smearing.
But nothing that can't be fixed or at least improved. Afterall, the full Gran Turismo 5 game is still 10-12 months from release.
I think the image quality issues are because of the game still a work in progress. Every month the game shows progress, there's no reason to expect it to stop progressing now
DVI converted to HDMI
Like others I've noticed the shadows can be very jaggy and blocky at times, especially when the light hits at certain angles. The outline of the cars/doors etc gets messed up at times as well. There is also some smearing.
But nothing that can't be fixed or at least improved. Afterall, the full Gran Turismo 5 game is still 10-12 months from release.
I think the image quality issues are because of the game still a work in progress. Every month the game shows progress, there's no reason to expect it to stop progressing now
