The Importance of Original Tracks in Racing Games

Red Rock Valley, Grindelwald & El Captain will always be my favourite original tracks.

Red Rock Valley - Makes perfect races & beautiful scenery with the sunset in the background. The corners and the straight makes the perfect track.

Grindelwald- Fun little track to race low powered & little cars on. Very fun driving a Mini Cooper & a lotus Elise around Grindelwald.

El Captain - High powered cars makes it awesome. Especially the steep part of the track with dips down is very unique. Try driving a Tommy Karia ZZII in a race, very intense & fun.
 
I enjoy Mid-Field, Grand Valley at full length has always been a challenge for me, but Cape Ring only brought disappointment. To go the other way, I enjoy Tsukuba, LeMans gives me grief but it's OK, and personally I've never cared for the Nordschleife.

I think the key is balance, and it's a three-way split. On one side you have full-fiction games like Burnout and Mario Kart, games where reality is generally forgotten about, save for gravity. On the other end of the spectrum you have games where the only thing fictional is you, such as F1 or NASCAR (in their vanilla forms anyway). The Physics may be a bit, or a lot, wonky but the direct correlation to the real thing is...usually obvious.

Those are the extremes. From there it should be a mix because the game isn't full-on one way or the other, and the middle lane of the split is a bit full. GT and Forza headline, but you also have Codemasters sticking their noses in with both GRID and DiRT series', and those are just the established series.

Speaking of, a non-AAA, non-hardcore sim game (read: not AC or PCars) is gonna have a hard time getting real tracks in their games, either due to money, lack of resources, or they simply get rejected. GT had zero real tracks when it started, Enthusia has two or three, Sega GT might have one, and R: Racing Evolution has only a few.

For me personally, as long as it fits the game and isn't a pain to drive on, I'm fine with it.
 
I totally agree...
Fantasy tracks are so important on racing games that even the last one added -Highlands on AC- has became an istant classic...
I love real tracks -in particolar Spa, Imola and Suzuka- but the fantasy tracks like Midfield or Deep Forest have a special place in my heart...
 
Apricot Hill was my favorite GT track, it just had such a nice flow to it for me. Ah I'll miss it so much if it isn't in GT Sport...but dragon trail looks cool (plus, it has the word dragon in it so yay)

Also, did anyone else notice the New York tracks from GT and Forza being identical?
 
Wait, don't forget RIDE 2, for motorcycle fans! Their fictional tracks can make an OG-Tourist Trophy player, cry tears of nostalgia. I swear, Milestone S.r.l could be the deities of Motorcycle Racing games. (I know, I'm biased because I've played almost all of their games...) The scenery could give you, a slight remembrance of either Forza and/or GT. But, has the mechanics of Tourist Trophy.

Tracks like:
  • Kanto Temples (Japan)
  • National Park Of Stelvio (Italy)
  • Sierra Nevada (USA)
  • North Wales (UK)
  • French Riviera (France)
  • Milan (Italy/Milestone S.r.l's HQ)
  • Miami (USA)
  • BONUS DRAG STRIP: Salt Flats Speedway (USA)
 
A track is a track.

A real track representation has a semantic relation to its physical counterpart. It's a place some know, seen, been to. But stripped of that reality (say someone that has never seen or heard of Spa-Francorchamps), it's a paved closed circuit where automobiles drive on.

At that fantasy tracks are no different, and meaning can be attributed to it with time. Memory and emotions.

As there's no reason to believe a layout can't be well designed, I'd say fantasy tracks are a great way to offer something unique to what are entertainment products while having less associated costs.
 
I agree that fantasy tracks are a huge part of console racing and really do help to define titles like GT.

Inclusion of real world tracks is important and helps cement the game as a quality title. I've been fortunate enough to have visited lots of real world circuits and driven many including Brands, Silverstone, Spa and the Nordschleife, so being able to re-live that experience accurately on a console is very enjoyable. It also gives people planning to drive/race on the tracks a chance to learn the circuit before they arrive.

That all said, the fantasy tracks define the title much more. I've lapped the likes of Trial Mountain and Deep Valley hundreds, maybe thousands of times since Gran Turismo 1 and the familiarity with the surroundings and experience of the racing lines makes for a really satisfyingly racing experience. I remember initially being frustrated with Seattle, but after doing long endurance races and learning it corner by corner, really grew to love it. Watching that video was like revisiting somewhere I'd actually been.

I think the new Dragon Trail Seaside track in GTSport could well become one of the greats, but if I could try a real-world track day on a fantasy circuit, it would have to be Grand Valley!
 
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I understand the writer's has a big affection for fantasy or fictional track but let's be honest, they are not "important" at all.

In Gran Turismo 6 I actually enjoyed the fictional tracks the most (like Mid-field raceway or Eiger), I think PD does in fact understand the needed fluidity of a racing circuit the best. In Driveclub I think the majority of circuits are quite fun as well. But it stops there. In Forza Motorsport 6 I really like the looks of tracks like Prague and Rio but let's be honest, as a racing track they are pretty poor, it's at best a visual spectacle of <insert your annual Turn 10 city focus here> and nothing more. Going forward to Project CARS I really like the looks of California Highway or Azure Coast but they are nothing spectacular to drive on. If you want a fictional point-to-point coarse I think PD's Sierra circuit still is best. Then Assetto Corsa's fictional tracks are weak too, Black Cat County is really dull and the more recent Scotland highway track is so overfilled with sponsor advertising boards it's really annoying to drive on (they did a better job than with BCC though).

For me the thrill and fun of racing on a circuit in a sim racing game is to have my driving/racing experience as authentic as it can be. Rig setup, a realistic car (no Vision GT, SMS-R or other fantasy cars either!), a realistic handling model, a realistic track and realistic graphics, sound and weather effects. For me what sim racing is all about is to come as close as possible to what the real deal in a real racing car is. And it's just thrilling for example to race a Group C at the long Mulsanne straight (pre 1990 layout without chicanes) knowing that this is what actually happened in real life as well. And it's not just a long stretch of road, it's a piece of history. The same goes for classic formula cars on those historic versions of Silverstone, Hockenheim or even Rouen-Les-Essarts in Project Cars. Or a modern GT3, F1, LMP1/2/3 on any circuit they also race on in real life. NASCAR on ovals, V8 supercars on Mount Panorama, rally cars on real life stages as in Dirt Rally, Rallycross on real life RX ciruits, Indycar on US tracks, ... it's just incredably fun to recreate real life races in sims as well, it adds an extra dimension of realism that a fantasy track (or car) can never do.

Fantasy tracks IMO are good for arcade games, the Need for Speeds and the Forza Horizons of this racing world. Granted sims are by far my favorite genre but I do enjoy an arcade racer as well and there the fantasy tracks are fine since the game as a whole is not as serious either.
 
aaaaaah We have Mid-Field, High Speed Ring, Autumn Ring, Special St. Route 5, Apricot Hill. So its great, thx.
...but good memories to Red Rock Valley (easy race to earn money to GT2 :cool: ), Tahiti (road version), Grindewald, Seattle, El Capitan, Roma Circuit...
Great works:bowdown:
 
breyzipp
I understand the writer's has a big affection for fantasy or fictional track but let's be honest, they are not "important" at all.

In Gran Turismo 6 I actually enjoyed the fictional tracks the most (like Mid-field raceway or Eiger), I think PD does in fact understand the needed fluidity of a racing circuit the best. In Driveclub I think the majority of circuits are quite fun as well. But it stops there. In Forza Motorsport 6 I really like the looks of tracks like Prague and Rio but let's be honest, as a racing track they are pretty poor, it's at best a visual spectacle of <insert your annual Turn 10 city focus here> and nothing more. Going forward to Project CARS I really like the looks of California Highway or Azure Coast but they are nothing spectacular to drive on. If you want a fictional point-to-point coarse I think PD's Sierra circuit still is best. Then Assetto Corsa's fictional tracks are weak too, Black Cat County is really dull and the more recent Scotland highway track is so overfilled with sponsor advertising boards it's really annoying to drive on (they did a better job than with BCC though).

For me the thrill and fun of racing on a circuit in a sim racing game is to have my driving/racing experience as authentic as it can be. Rig setup, a realistic car (no Vision GT, SMS-R or other fantasy cars either!), a realistic handling model, a realistic track and realistic graphics, sound and weather effects. For me what sim racing is all about is to come as close as possible to what the real deal in a real racing car is. And it's just thrilling for example to race a Group C at the long Mulsanne straight (pre 1990 layout without chicanes) knowing that this is what actually happened in real life as well. And it's not just a long stretch of road, it's a piece of history. The same goes for classic formula cars on those historic versions of Silverstone, Hockenheim or even Rouen-Les-Essarts in Project Cars. Or a modern GT3, F1, LMP1/2/3 on any circuit they also race on in real life. NASCAR on ovals, V8 supercars on Mount Panorama, rally cars on real life stages as in Dirt Rally, Rallycross on real life RX ciruits, Indycar on US tracks, ... it's just incredably fun to recreate real life races in sims as well, it adds an extra dimension of realism that a fantasy track (or car) can never do.

Fantasy tracks IMO are good for arcade games, the Need for Speeds and the Forza Horizons of this racing world. Granted sims are by far my favorite genre but I do enjoy an arcade racer as well and there the fantasy tracks are fine since the game as a whole is not as serious either.
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All great points, I totally understand this point of view too. The thing is though, for the general players it seems like these fantasy tracks can be a big deal since they're immediately associable with a given franchise.

The Nurburgring is fantastic, for example, but you can drive it in just about any game (with differing quality of course) but Midfield is a key part of the GT franchise. It leaves a lasting impression because it's unique to the series.
 
It takes some serious talent to create a great fantasy circuit. Polyphony is still way ahead the competition. I hope we will get to see Grand Valley in GT Sport, but there are many other classics like Trial Mountain, Deep Forest and High Speed Ring. Oh, i forgot about Autumn Ring. Say what you want about Polyphony but they are great track designers. They manage to create fantasy tracks that feel real and believable, yet look cool and are fun to drive. The new fantasy tracks in GT Sport are showing this, too.

Other teams are not quite there, but Turn 10 creates some great fantasy tracks since Forza 5. I didnt like their older creations as much. Kunos did something rather blank with BCC, alrough i appreciate the idea of an open road track.
 
Silvio
Why always real cars ??? ....... Because thats the point Sim is sim. Fantasy is fantasy. GT Sport will have so far most fantasy tracks and cars too. But they should remove The real driving simulator slogan from the game
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The point of a simulator is not to replicate our reality in its entirety, but rather to replicate specific parameters found in our reality and create a plausible scenario using them. You don't need real entities to make a fictional scenario feel plausible. Otherwise games such as Cities: Skylines would not be classified as a simulator. Kazunori said it best himself back in 1997 in a short interview taken during the creation of GT1; "What if I could drive my car on the television?". That's all a simulator is — a big "what if". The point of Gran Turismo has never been about real cars or tracks, but rather replicating what a virtual car might feel like if it were real.

What if I could create my own city?
What if I was ruler of my own country?
What if I owned my own motorsports team?
What if-

You get the point.
 
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HarVee
The point of a simulator is not to replicate our reality in its entirety, but rather to replicate specific parameters found in our reality and create a plausible scenario using them...
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hmm...I'm pretty sure that's not the only point of a simulator. For some, including myself, the point of a simulator is to try and replicate a real world experience. Specifically in this case it's the experience of driving an accurately simulated model of a real car around an accurately simulated model of a real track. I can enjoy a romp around a fantasy track now and then, but it's a pretty shallow enjoyment really. I can't then go online and look up youtube clips of real drivers driving the real-world version of my chosen car around the real-world version of the given track and see how my driving compares to reality - and that's a really important part of the equation for me. I get bored of fantasy tracks after only a handful of laps usually, but I never tire of running laps at The Ring...
 
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but Project Gotham Racing 4 ! Oh man, I loved all the city fictional tracks in that game. They were simply a blast to fly through, specially the Macau and Tokyo tracks!
 
I only started racing with GT5, but my favourite tracks from that and GT6 are Deep Forest (which rumour has it was inspired by Greenwood Roadway), Deep Forest Reverse, Trial Mountain and Trial Mountain Reverse.

I have now moved on to Project Cars and my favourite on that game is Bannochbrae - if you set it to misty it really is like racing through a Scottish village - select an Aston Martin DBR1 from 1959 and you can imagine that you are Jim Clark racing for the "Border Reivers" Team. This track is totally plausible although it would be far too dangerous for real life racing now - it has many features from and reminds me of the great Tasmanian track used in the Tasman series in the 1960's - Longford.

For me the fantasy tracks have to be plausible and are most effective when they are inspired by, but improve on the flow of their inspiration for example Sakitto in Project Cars - I love all the short layouts and the long version is much nicer to race on than Suzuka which they couldn't get the license for. The substitute for Monaco however is terrible - having failed to get the license there was an opportunity to improve the flow of the circuit, but it's even more constipated in its flow than the real Monaco.

I loved some of the custom tracks from GT5 and GT6 - and would love to see the track making tool improved and added to other racing games. My own tracks would probably be terrible, because it takes a lot of talent which I don't have, but many members of GT Planet did a truly great job and I really enjoyed some of the Track's of the Week.
 
Taegon Lewis
Wait, don't forget RIDE 2, for motorcycle fans! Their fictional tracks can make an OG-Tourist Trophy player, cry tears of nostalgia. I swear, Milestone S.r.l could be the deities of Motorcycle Racing games. (I know, I'm biased because I've played almost all of their games...) The scenery could give you, a slight remembrance of either Forza and/or GT. But, has the mechanics of Tourist Trophy.

Tracks like:
  • Kanto Temples (Japan)
  • National Park Of Stelvio (Italy)
  • Sierra Nevada (USA)
  • North Wales (UK)
  • French Riviera (France)
  • Milan (Italy/Milestone S.r.l's HQ)
  • Miami (USA)
  • BONUS DRAG STRIP: Salt Flats Speedway (USA)
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I really like Milestone too. Are they the greatest in all ways? No, but they make really solid racing games. Consistently good racing games. Problem is, I think they do too many.
 
Enthusia had some really charming fictional circuits. Marco Strada, Autumn Mountain, Victoria Garden and Lowenseering were all engaging to drive and (Lowenseering aside) engaging to look at. Wintertraum and Burgenschlucht were also a visual delight, though a bit less stellar to drive.
 
Red Rock Valley
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Fantasy tracks are very important, completely agree with the "Suspension of disbelief" theory, and that's exactly what pisses people off about "Cape Ring". I believe the layout is actually very interesting, but the surroundings are bland beyond belief. Having the chance of setting the track anywhere, PD sets it in a barren wasteland of a landscape. A comparison with "El Capitan" might help me make my point here, it's the feeling of awe that racing in the middle of mountains inspired what was awesome about it, not it's layout.
Rome-Night if I had to pick a favorite from the past...
 
I've always loved fictional tracks in GT So much to a point I dreamed of one exsiting in real life. I had a dream where I was at Grand Valley Speedway In real life. The dream felt so real where I raced a Castrol Supra against 19 Cars at this track with weather and time progression. It felt so real and I started to cry when I was in the dream it was so beautiful. I woke up with tears of joy only to find out it was an amazing dream.

PS:We need a Tears of Joy emoji here on GTP.
 
Zevious Z
hmm...I'm pretty sure that's not the only point of a simulator. For some, including myself, the point of a simulator is to try and replicate a real world experience. Specifically in this case it's the experience of driving an accurately simulated model of a real car around an accurately simulated model of a real track. I can enjoy a romp around a fantasy track now and then, but it's a pretty shallow enjoyment really. I can't then go online and look up youtube clips of real drivers driving the real-world version of my chosen car around the real-world version of the given track and see how my driving compares to reality - and that's a really important part of the equation for me. I get bored of fantasy tracks after only a handful of laps usually, but I never tire of running laps at The Ring...
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I think you may have misunderstood. In Gran Turismo we're replicating the experience of driving a car using parameters found in our real-world physics, More drag = slower acceleration, etc. We use these parameters as a means of creating the "what if" scenario. What if I could use this virtual car to beat a real world lap record?

Simulators are basically theoretical tools that allow us to replicate certain aspects and situations of our reality and create plausible outcomes using the "what if" mentality. It's not rocket science really. :lol:
 
My understanding is that compared to driving gt6 cars, and driving a real car, not many can drive a real race car, so very few can. So come now, let have fun. And let the race begin. In my opinion all tracks on gt 1-6 are just that Fantasy your driving a Avatar It' make believe. So yes fantasy tracks all the way.
 
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