The Importance of Original Tracks in Racing Games

[2clicks]

It's very important, even to the point where it's what the games will be remembered by. A racing game will be much harder to distinguish itself from the competition if it only has content that its competitors already have. I truly hate the bandwagoning that racing IPs go through. When the Nordschleife was introduced in GT4, it was revolutionary. Now, unpopular opinion here, I'm sick to death of its inclusion because it's apparently the standard by which the content of any game that attempts track racing simulation is measured by.

Even if there's no original tracks, variation is key. When I play a new game and race in a championship, I don't want to think 'Ugh... This track AGAIN? The weariness hasn't worn off from [insert racing game here] yet.' Just keep it fresh, and the best way you can do that is by making your own locations. That completely eliminates competitors bandwagoning, and creates a legacy around your IP, even if it's just one track.

 

[breyzipp]

It's very important, even to the point where it's what the games will be remembered by. A racing game will be much harder to distinguish itself from the competition if it only has content that its competitors already have. I truly hate the bandwagoning that racing IPs go through. When the Nordschleife was introduced in GT4, it was revolutionary. Now, unpopular opinion here, I'm sick to death of its inclusion because it's apparently the standard by which the content of any game that attempts track racing simulation is measured by.

Even if there's no original tracks, variation is key. When I play a new game and race in a championship, I don't want to think 'Ugh... This track AGAIN? The weariness hasn't worn off from [insert racing game here] yet.' Just keep it fresh, and the best way you can do that is by making your own locations. That completely eliminates competitors bandwagoning, and creates a legacy around your IP, even if it's just one track.

I fully agree that overused real life tracks are getting boring at some point. I'm all PRO real life tracks in sims but I'm bored to the back of my teeth with the Nordschleife as well. I never liked it much to begin with.
Depending on what games you play and how often, I'm sure there are other real tracks that appear in multiple games that became boring. For me that is for example Suzuka, Monza, Indianapolis, Sebring. I played Spa and Le Mans a lot too but I never seem to get bored with those. Spa is IMO one of the best tracks in the world.

What I truly enjoyed a LOT in PCARS1 is the inclusion of a lot of real tracks I didn't see in any other game (I played myself) yet before. Zhuhai circuit in China, BRNO from Chech Republic, historical Rouen-Les-Essarts in France, Ruapuna park in New Zealand, etc etc. It's so fun to get to know a real life track from a game, become interested in it and then go to YouTube to see some real life races on that same track.

With Project CARS 2 the game seems to continue with this trend, Portimão in Portugal, Sugo in Japan, Texas Speedway, a few Rallycross circuits I never heard of before, etc etc are all tracks I'm really looking forward to giving a try.

There are tons of awesome underused-in-gaming racing tracks in the real world, but I think it's the devs that think they need to always include the big ones like Spa, Nordschleife, Monza, etc. The perfect example is Mugello in Assetto Corsa, another fine example of a truly awesome real life circuit that is incredibly fun to race on. Give me something like that over the 6th itteration of the Nordschleife any day.

 

[Zevious Z]

I think you may have misunderstood. In Gran Turismo we're replicating the experience of driving a car using parameters found in our real-world physics, More drag = slower acceleration, etc. We use these parameters as a means of creating the "what if" scenario. What if I could use this virtual car to beat a real world lap record?

Simulators are basically theoretical tools that allow us to replicate certain aspects and situations of our reality and create plausible outcomes using the "what if" mentality. It's not rocket science really.

Of course. For me, part of the "fun" of the simulation is to be able to draw comparisons between it and the reality it simulates. That includes the tracks. Plus, I just find that most fantasy tracks just aren't very good unfortunately. For me, the question I'm interested in wrt simulators is how closely can we recreate the real world behaviour of this car in a virtual world?

 

[Tornado]

Nothing about fantasy tracks inhibits that

 

[2clicks]

I fully agree that overused real life tracks are getting boring at some point. I'm all PRO real life tracks in sims but I'm bored to the back of my teeth with the Nordschleife as well. I never liked it much to begin with.
Depending on what games you play and how often, I'm sure there are other real tracks that appear in multiple games that became boring. For me that is for example Suzuka, Monza, Indianapolis, Sebring. I played Spa and Le Mans a lot too but I never seem to get bored with those. Spa is IMO one of the best tracks in the world.

What I truly enjoyed a LOT in PCARS1 is the inclusion of a lot of real tracks I didn't see in any other game (I played myself) yet before. Zhuhai circuit in China, BRNO from Chech Republic, historical Rouen-Les-Essarts in France, Ruapuna park in New Zealand, etc etc. It's so fun to get to know a real life track from a game, become interested in it and then go to YouTube to see some real life races on that same track.

With Project CARS 2 the game seems to continue with this trend, Portimão in Portugal, Sugo in Japan, Texas Speedway, a few Rallycross circuits I never heard of before, etc etc are all tracks I'm really looking forward to giving a try.

There are tons of awesome underused-in-gaming racing tracks in the real world, but I think it's the devs that think they need to always include the big ones like Spa, Nordschleife, Monza, etc. The perfect example is Mugello in Assetto Corsa, another fine example of a truly awesome real life circuit that is incredibly fun to race on. Give me something like that over the 6th itteration of the Nordschleife any day.

Spa and Sarthe are exceptions because they aren't that overused as it is hard enough to secure licensing for them, unlike the Nordschleife whose license seems to just be thrown at any developers whose intentions are to recreate track racing (GRID is an exception).

Why haven't we seen Interlagos in many racing games? Okayama? Nogaro? The licensing shouldn't be hard to secure for these tracks. I don't understand the hype about including a Tilkedrome that has already featured in so many other sims.

Of course. For me, part of the "fun" of the simulation is to be able to draw comparisons between it and the reality it simulates. That includes the tracks. Plus, I just find that most fantasy tracks just aren't very good unfortunately. For me, the question I'm interested in wrt simulators is how closely can we recreate the real world behaviour of this car in a virtual world?

So you're saying that simulated real-world physics can't translate to a fictional location that is assumed to be on Earth?

 

[Silvio]

The point of a simulator is not to replicate our reality in its entirety, but rather to replicate specific parameters found in our reality and create a plausible scenario using them. You don't need real entities to make a fictional scenario feel plausible. Otherwise games such as Cities: Skylines would not be classified as a simulator. Kazunori said it best himself back in 1997 in a short interview taken during the creation of GT1; "What if I could drive my car on the television?". That's all a simulator is — a big "what if". The point of Gran Turismo has never been about real cars or tracks, but rather replicating what a virtual car might feel like if it were real.

What if I could create my own city?
What if I was ruler of my own country?
What if I owned my own motorsports team?
What if-

You get the point.

Gran turismo was 1st real game with real cars on console. And was named " Real driving simulator " and genre was about the cars. I have nothing against fantasy tracks but if in this world was builded so much racing tracks with own history they became alive tracks with soul. So for me they are much more important to be in sim racing games than fantasy tracks. IN Gt series i liked for example Grand Valley, but i can"t compare it to any real tracks. All i wanna say i 'll like much more to see Imola or Estoril or Magny course in GT series than driving on the moon where developers spent lot time energy and our disc space for nothing. ( In my point of view )

 

[Famine]

Fictional tracks don't really bother me, so long as they're good.

Any of the new-breed of F1 tracks would have been a fiction in 1990. Silverstone's current layout would have been a fiction in 1950. Literally any race track would have been a fiction in the 1400s, unless you're talking about a Roman hippodrome/circus, and even they were fictions until they were made.

Just as there's little value in replicating a crap real-world track like the Valencia street circuit, there's little value in making a crap fake one like like GT4's Hong Kong street circuit. Just as there's plenty of value in replicating a great real-world track like Spa-Francorchamps, there's plenty of value in making a great fake one like Grand Valley Speedway.


The only thing between an Original circuit and reality is a construction project - and Maeda Corporation did a feasibility study for building Grand Valley Speedway in real life back in 2005.

So long as it's a good track that's enjoyable to race on (and not a knock-off of a real-world track created because of licensing issue), I couldn't care less. Polyphony does have a fairly good track record on this, with Grand Valley, Trial Mountain (my favourite), Deep Forest (Kazunori Yamauchi's favourite), Apricot Hill, Midfield, Autumn Ring and Special Stage Route 5... even if there is the occasional Cape Ring or Matterhorn.

 

[Zevious Z]

Nothing about fantasy tracks inhibits that

Well, unless you like to check out what real drivers have done in real cars at a given real track...

Spa and Sarthe are exceptions because they aren't that overused as it is hard enough to secure licensing for them, unlike the Nordschleife whose license seems to just be thrown at any developers whose intentions are to recreate track racing (GRID is an exception).

Why haven't we seen Interlagos in many racing games? Okayama? Nogaro? The licensing shouldn't be hard to secure for these tracks. I don't understand the hype about including a Tilkedrome that has already featured in so many other sims.



So you're saying that simulated real-world physics can't translate to a fictional location that is assumed to be on Earth?

No, I'm saying I don't care how simulated real world physics translate to a fictional location that is assumed to be on earth. . At least not as much as I care about how simulated real world physics translate to simulated real world locations. It's all personal preferance. I'm not saying there's really anything wrong with fictional tracks. I just can take them or leave them. I like Driveclub a lot, but I'd like it even more if it had some real tracks - although it leans more to the arcade side of things anyway so it isn't a critical weakness...

I don't mind getting the same real tracks over and over actually. I'm happy to have devs keep including newer and ever more accurate versions of favorite tracks (like the Ring) in sims. We certainly haven't reached anything close to the zenith of accuracy wrt simulation models of reality...

 

[2clicks]

Fictional tracks don't really bother me, so long as they're good.

Any of the new-breed of F1 tracks would have been a fiction in 1990. Silverstone's current layout would have been a fiction in 1950. Literally any race track would have been a fiction in the 1400s, unless you're talking about a Roman hippodrome/circus, and even they were fictions until they were made.

To add to this point, let's not forget that in the early days of polygonal racing games, all tracks were fictional.

 

[roamer2629]

...unless you're talking about a Roman hippodrome/circus, and even they were fictions until they were made.

"Gran Turismo-Chariot Edition" is something I would surely pay for

 

[Silvio]

Fantasy tracks dont automatically lower any simulation. Either way, I think they did drop that slogan already.

OK, lets drive something somewhere.

 

[The_Paladin]

I love fictional track, for me they are even more important that real tracks because you can drive Nurburgrind, Spa, La Sarte and other tracks in pretty much every racing game out there, real tracks are important but the fictional are the ones that make the game more memorable.
I´m quite pissed with Forza series after Forza 4 because they drop so many good fictional tracks.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I would like to think for games more geared toward realism that a fantasy/original track should at least stick to principles that makes real tracks beloved by many. Now, that doesn't mean one can't have a little imagination thrown in there. If anything, that's the big advantage when creating something original because they don't have to deal with the constraints reality places on real tracks. In other words, the virtual environment allows one to build the ideal track first and then shape the world around it.

The trick is to nail both aspects, something Gran Turismo has done pretty well in the past. Recently, it's been a bit hit and miss in one department. For example, while I can't play GT Sport, Dragon Tail looks like a good track to race. However, the environment is a little too barren for me, too many trees and not enough structures as you drive away from the coast. The other original tracks seem to get the environments right more than the track design. To be honest, I'd be more excited if they simply modernized some of the older original tracks.

 

[Barra333]

I enjoy a good mix of real and fictional circuits, but can do without the reverse layout of real tracks. GRID, I'm looking at you - I have driven more laps of Mount Panorama, Spa and Brands Hatch backwards than I have forwards. And I don't even know which way is forwards for some of the short COTA variants.

 

[glassjaw]

Why haven't we seen Interlagos in many racing games? Okayama? Nogaro? The licensing shouldn't be hard to secure for these tracks. I don't understand the hype about including a Tilkedrome that has already featured in so many other sims.

Remember Need For Speed ProStreet? It wasn't very good, but I played it far longer than I should have because of tracks like Autopolis and Portland, which never, ever appear in games. Especially Autopolis, which I have my fingers crossed for inclusion in GT Sport. But yeah, developers totally have this terrible groupthink when it comes to copying tracks in competing games, and it's absolutely infuriating.

Now I fully understand the Nurburgring appearing everywhere, or Spa, or La Sarthe. Those are iconic tracks. I'll even give Brands Hatch a pass, as it's kind of spiritual home of British motorsport, especially considering what's become of Silverstone. But that isn't an excuse out to seek out new locations, not to freshen the experience for your players by realizing that your fans play other games, and they might not NEED Laguna Seca for the fortieth time. And maybe, just maybe, that slot might be better served with something else.

Perhaps it's a licensing thing, who knows. But fictional tracks are a good way around that. And, if done right, they can give your racer a flavor and a feeling others don't have. Because when you get caught up in the never-ending pursuit of just being that little bit more real than the next game, that becomes all that matters and, inevitably, you lose your identity somewhere in the process.

 

[VXR]

Deep Forest will always be my favourite fictional track, because I like the flow more than just about any race circuit. In Forza, they seem to be nothing more than eye candy now, but Alpine Ring and Blue Mountains in the first game were good analogues of real world circuits. Honourable mentions mostly go to Gran Turismo in this regard, though. The Alpine courses - Grindelwald especially, for nostalgia - are appreciated for their elevation changes. That Eiger could feasibly exist bar one small section is great attention to detail on PD's behalf and Matterhorn has one of the coolest uphill sections of any game, with the quick right/left at the foot of the steep incline.

Mostly flat, fast real world circuits are fine for racing, but the fun of driving for the sake of it is engendered far more in the fictional circuits, especially if they're essentially road courses.

 

[2clicks]

Nurburgrind

Haha I see what you did there.

Deep Forest will always be my favourite fictional track, because I like the flow more than just about any race circuit. In Forza, they seem to be nothing more than eye candy now, but Alpine Ring and Blue Mountains in the first game were good analogues of real world circuits. .

Agree with you on Deep Forest. I love that section after the first corner. However, the only times when ficitional tracks are not acceptable, are when they are analogues of the real thing. I'd much rather see more unknown real-world tracks than knock-offs.

 

[Silvio]

I love fictional track, for me they are even more important that real tracks because you can drive Nurburgrind, Spa, La Sarte and other tracks in pretty much every racing game out there, real tracks are important but the fictional are the ones that make the game more memorable.
I´m quite pissed with Forza series after Forza 4 because they drop so many good fictional tracks.

But PD forgot to add some tracks on water in GT6. There was some VW amphibia ??? Or should we waiting for rain ????

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Throw me in the bandwagon of fictional track lovers as well. They may be unrealistic, but I practically grew up on Grand Valley, Deep Forest and Trial Mountain. SSR11 is like a personal backyard to me. As far as my motorsport history is concerned, those tracks are as important as any Spa or Nurburgring. Most real world tracks are either Tilkedromes now or a bland club circuit in the middle of a flat plain. Give me an El Capitan or Citta di Aria over those anyday.

Unfortunately I think PD has lost its touch when it comes to making fictional tracks. None of their new tracks since GT5 has been good IMO. The last good one was Eiger Nordward in GT5P. Cape Ring, Sierra, Tokyo Expressway are all so uninspiring. And what's with all the new ovals? Seems weird to include that many in GTS when we don't even have NASCAR. I'd rather they revamp the old GT1-4 classics in HD and leave it at that rather than giving us these half-assed tracks.

I enjoy a good mix of real and fictional circuits, but can do without the reverse layout of real tracks. GRID, I'm looking at you - I have driven more laps of Mount Panorama, Spa and Brands Hatch backwards than I have forwards. And I don't even know which way is forwards for some of the short COTA variants.

Weirdly I find COTA to have a much better flow in reverse . Same with Algarve. Yas Marina is also ok backwards, but that's because in forwards it doesn't have a great flow to begin with Agree that Bathurst and Spa is a total disaster in reverse though

Oddly enough there is a real world circuit that has its direction reversed after renovations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misano_World_Circuit_Marco_Simoncelli). I'm sure more knowledgeable people than me will know a few more.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The shorter layout of Caper Ring are nice IMO, the Cape Ring Inside and the South, especially the South which has a nice flow and useful for damper+ARB tuning, I often race online there back in GT5, it was also one of my test track.