The Kobayashi Lap of Le Mans

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So I am trying to get close to this lap in the Toyota Hybrid.

I have it non-BOPed as that seems correct. I have no weight or power adjustment as that also seems fair.

I have tried extending the gear box for a higher top speed which seems to help. I am running on RSS which is the closest to qualifying tyres I think.

Early days after just three fast laps I am on 3:29.

Is anyone else trying this? If so how is you time looking and what tweaks have you done to the car set-up (assuming you are faster than me?)

CJ
 
I was on La Sarthe lobbies for most of the day, using the same car. BoP'd (although iirc it's just 100%/100%), no tuning, and with fuel/tire degredation. The best lap I was able to pull off was a 3:26 on RHs.

Some people were able to pull a 3:21 or so in an Audi R18 '16, so a time within that range is certainly possible for the Toyota :)

As for the 3:14 run... well, the leaderboards last time only had a 3:16 (in the Nissan GT-R), so maybe with RM or RS as well as an alien it's possible for the Toyota to do it

Edit: After watching Kobayashi's lap, I have a few remarks. First, he seems to be lifting (if not braking) way earlier than he needs to (or at least what GTS leads us to believe). At the Muslanne corners he lifts by as much as a whole meter board away from the actual braking point. Hmm. A wild guess is that he's trying to regenerate as much of the hybrid system as possible? Maybe we can apply this driving style to GTS as well. Another thing is that his car jerks from understeer to the the trajectory that Kobayashi wants it to be once in a while. Judging from this, I'm guessing that the grip levels of his tires are somewhere around RS and RSS, given that those tires can give the car those jerky characteristics
 
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Alpha Cipher
Edit: After watching Kobayashi's lap, I have a few remarks. First, he seems to be lifting (if not braking) way earlier than he needs to (or at least what GTS leads us to believe). At the Muslanne corners he lifts by as much as a whole meter board away from the actual braking point. Hmm. A wild guess is that he's trying to regenerate as much of the hybrid system as possible? Maybe we can apply this driving style to GTS as well. Another thing is that his car jerks from understeer to the the trajectory that Kobayashi wants it to be once in a while. Judging from this, I'm guessing that the grip levels of his tires are somewhere around RS and RSS, given that those tires can give the car those jerky characteristics
Click to expand...

Let’s remember that GTS won’t exactly replicate a real life lap in terms of physics.
 
Alpha Cipher
I was on La Sarthe lobbies for most of the day, using the same car. BoP'd (although iirc it's just 100%/100%), no tuning, and with fuel/tire degredation. The best lap I was able to pull off was a 3:26 on RHs.

Some people were able to pull a 3:21 or so in an Audi R18 '16, so a time within that range is certainly possible for the Toyota :)

As for the 3:14 run... well, the leaderboards last time only had a 3:16 (in the Nissan GT-R), so maybe with RM or RS as well as an alien it's possible for the Toyota to do it

Edit: After watching Kobayashi's lap, I have a few remarks. First, he seems to be lifting (if not braking) way earlier than he needs to (or at least what GTS leads us to believe). At the Muslanne corners he lifts by as much as a whole meter board away from the actual braking point. Hmm. A wild guess is that he's trying to regenerate as much of the hybrid system as possible? Maybe we can apply this driving style to GTS as well. Another thing is that his car jerks from understeer to the the trajectory that Kobayashi wants it to be once in a while. Judging from this, I'm guessing that the grip levels of his tires are somewhere around RS and RSS, given that those tires can give the car those jerky characteristics
Click to expand...

He has to lift because there is a mandated fuel consumption limit, even in qualifying. This makes it even harder to replicate the lap.
 
We'll need the 2017 lmp1 TS050 to be able to reach Kamui's 3:14 qualifying lap record (imho).

The 2017 TS050 is not identical to the 2016 TS050.

Both the Porsche and the Toyota had "updated" versions of their 2016 LMP1 due to downforce regulation changes.

"Asked if the two manufacturers had clawed back the lost downforce, Seidl said: "It looks that way - it is our job to make up for it."

The height of the front splitter has been raised and the depth of the rear diffuser reduced on the factory cars for 2017 in a bid to keep a cap on rising corner speeds."

I could be wrong offcourse but i dont think a 3:14 will be possible in the 2016 model.
 
Amaru
We'll need the 2017 lmp1 TS050 to be able to reach Kamui's 3:14 qualifying lap record (imho).

The 2017 TS050 is not identical to the 2016 TS050.

Both the Porsche and the Toyota had "updated" versions of their 2016 LMP1 due to downforce regulation changes.

"Asked if the two manufacturers had clawed back the lost downforce, Seidl said: "It looks that way - it is our job to make up for it."

The height of the front splitter has been raised and the depth of the rear diffuser reduced on the factory cars for 2017 in a bid to keep a cap on rising corner speeds."

I could be wrong offcourse but i dont think a 3:14 will be possible in the 2016 model.
Click to expand...
Downforce levels are adjustable in GTS. Even though with reduced downforce I think the teams wouldn't run a minimal-downforce setup at La Sarthe, so I think we can reach a similar downforce level to their spec if we want to tune our car that way :)
--
I did some maths to calculate how many liters of fuel we'll need to restrict ourselves with so that we're in line with the fuel flow restrictions that Kobayashi ran with. I found that LMP1-H cars have a fuel-flow restriction of 80kg/hr (I found this in a 2018 article but there's no fuel flow regulation changes from 2017 to 2018 iirc). Assuming that one will constantly replicate Kobayashi's qualifying time of 3:14.791 over the course of an hour, we can deduce that 3:14.791 divided by an hour would equate to roughly 18 laps. So that means 80kg/18 laps. Simpifying it, we get to spend roughly 4kg of fuel every lap, which will be 5 liters (5.77 to be exact). There's an option in open lobbies to have your fuel tank set to 100L, so you can base how many liters of fuel you've consumed based on the percentage.

What this tells us is that it's probably impossible to do this lap with the fuel flow restrictions because I don't think we can even satisfy the restriction :dopey: ye go maths

Correct me for any incorrect math :)
 
2017 isn't a like for like comparison as said earlier. 2016 qualifying was interrupted by rain but pole was a 3:19.7 in the Porsche with the Toyota doing a 3:20.7, which is definitely achievable with RH tyres on a stock setup. RH tyres in the game are the closest to reality which is why they are always used in Sport Mode, the softer tyres are basically a progressively grippier driving aid.

If anything the Audi is a little too quick in the game compared to reality. Not that I'm complaining because it's the nicest to drive out of the 3!
 
Alpha Cipher
Downforce levels are adjustable in GTS. Even though with reduced downforce I think the teams wouldn't run a minimal-downforce setup at La Sarthe, so I think we can reach a similar downforce level to their spec if we want to tune our car that way :)
--
I did some maths to calculate how many liters of fuel we'll need to restrict ourselves with so that we're in line with the fuel flow restrictions that Kobayashi ran with. I found that LMP1-H cars have a fuel-flow restriction of 80kg/hr (I found this in a 2018 article but there's no fuel flow regulation changes from 2017 to 2018 iirc). Assuming that one will constantly replicate Kobayashi's qualifying time of 3:14.791 over the course of an hour, we can deduce that 3:14.791 divided by an hour would equate to roughly 18 laps. So that means 80kg/18 laps. Simpifying it, we get to spend roughly 4kg of fuel every lap, which will be 5 liters (5.77 to be exact). There's an option in open lobbies to have your fuel tank set to 100L, so you can base how many liters of fuel you've consumed based on the percentage.

What this tells us is that it's probably impossible to do this lap with the fuel flow restrictions because I don't think we can even satisfy the restriction :dopey: ye go maths

Correct me for any incorrect math :)
Click to expand...

Nice calculation, very interesting stuff.
 
I really didn't mean to start too much by this thread but it is the most interesting I have read in a while. Great knowledge from the posters and about my most favorite race of all time. Doesn't get much better (although last night's Blancpain was pretty darn good too!!!)

CJ
 
Hello!

As you said earlier, they have to do lift off before braking to save fuel.

They also have a 2017 car instead of our 2016 in game. However trying to compare 2016 to 2017 cars is impossible as the splitter gets 7cm higher to reduce ground effect while the diffuser height went from 20cm to 15cm for the same reason. In the meantime the suspension fairings were to be opened and no longer linked to the sidepods. All those aero changes were supposed to kill 25% of downforce. In the meantime engineers worked to compensate for this lost. They may not have gone to the same aero values than in 2016.

Last but not least, I don’t know what hybrid energy strategy is applied in GTS. In real life they have a certain amount of maximum energy released a lap, and they have strategies to deploy this energy at the best place. In GTS we just put flat out and we have hybrid power or not...

Next to that 2017 cars may be a little better in every aspects due to development such as thermic power, hybrid energy release strategy, ...

So comparing our lap times is quite pretentious.

And for information I passed bellow 3'20" with the 919, TS050 and R18 on race soft tyres. So as said before, the Kobayashi record may fall against aliens...
 
Waylon
just to adds to the information, commentator has suggested during the record lap the car was on medium tires.
Click to expand...

Possible, but endurance tyres are not like F1 tyres, a medium has about the same performance than a soft or a hard, but not on the same temperature operation window. Some teams have qualifying dedicated tyres but they don't bring a lot of performance. It's mainly the fact they are brand new and in the best of they form due to that than a different compound which makes them quicker.
 
dylpro
Let’s remember that GTS won’t exactly replicate a real life lap in terms of physics.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to compare the speed of the car at numerous points in their fastest laps. Would be a good indication of GT's aero physics.
 
Looking at the video of the real lap, the car pulls on hybrid power to nearly 290 km/h every time it reaches such a velocity while the GTS car hits a wall at 240 km/h or so - and even then only on the first half of the lap when running on Racing Hards, from Indianapolis onwards there's barely any battery left so it runs out around 200 km/h. In the VR video above the supersoft tyres aid cornering so much that a lot of battery power is saved as the accelerations begin from higher speeds and thus require less hybrid power each time.

For the record my best time is 3'23 on Racing Hards. Not going to find more than a second or two more.
 
mthomas_95
2017 isn't a like for like comparison as said earlier. 2016 qualifying was interrupted by rain but pole was a 3:19.7 in the Porsche with the Toyota doing a 3:20.7, which is definitely achievable with RH tyres on a stock setup. RH tyres in the game are the closest to reality which is why they are always used in Sport Mode, the softer tyres are basically a progressively grippier driving aid.

If anything the Audi is a little too quick in the game compared to reality. Not that I'm complaining because it's the nicest to drive out of the 3!
Click to expand...
Going by those lap times, I wonder if it can be done with the fuel flow regulations. A slower lap time means less laps in an hour, so more liters of fuel per lap. It goes both ways :)

Hmm. Maybe allow tuning as well? I'm pretty sure real life allows tuning to their heart's content :lol: praiano's tune (if he has any for the Toyota) is always a good baseline :D
 
Attempting this lap record at Le Mans in the game is the Gran Turismo version of the "Beat Zico" trophy from WipEout, where from there, you have to set a lap time of 30.82 or faster in Anulpha Pass, Venom class using the Piranha.

Here in GT Sport, this challenge could be named "Beat Kamui" (since the record holder was Kamui Kobayashi), where you have to set a lap time of 3:14.792 or faster in the Le Mans circuit (with chicanes) using the Toyota TS050 Hybrid (stock, and only Racing: Super Soft tires).

And remember, besides Lewis Hamilton, Kobayashi is also another racer who supports the game.
 
GBalao888
Attempting this lap record at Le Mans in the game is the Gran Turismo version of the "Beat Zico" trophy from WipEout, where from there, you have to set a lap time of 30.82 or faster in Anulpha Pass, Venom class using the Piranha.

Here in GT Sport, this challenge could be named "Beat Kamui" (since the record holder was Kamui Kobayashi), where you have to set a lap time of 3:14.792 or faster in the Le Mans circuit (with chicanes) using the Toyota TS050 Hybrid (stock, and only Racing: Medium tires).

And remember, besides Lewis Hamilton, Kobayashi is also another racer who supports the game.
Click to expand...
 
ARTAsean
He has to lift because there is a mandated fuel consumption limit, even in qualifying. This makes it even harder to replicate the lap.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Remember the engines on this LMP1 are capable of way more than 506hp the car is credited. Actually the power levels are about that amount precisely because they are optimized to fuel consumption per lap. But they can beef it up a little if they want, in some cases, if they don't exceed the instant flow of 80.2 kg/h.
I think that's the case of this lap, as it (incredibly) run out of juice before the end of lap with the car ECU putting the car running on fumes (and electric power) from somewhere on Ford Chicanes and the Start Finish Line to not exceed the fuel per lap limit, which wasn't too bad, because it's short run, and the use of the fuel on the rest of the lap showed to be more efficient.
 
Alpha Cipher
Going by those lap times, I wonder if it can be done with the fuel flow regulations. A slower lap time means less laps in an hour, so more liters of fuel per lap. It goes both ways :)
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. If the lap is slower because they were off the driving line then sure, but if the lap was slower due to slower speeds they should actually save fuel/lap. Like how your car burns more fuel at 80mph than at 50mph over the same distance
 
Greycap
Looking at the video of the real lap, the car pulls on hybrid power to nearly 290 km/h every time it reaches such a velocity while the GTS car hits a wall at 240 km/h or so - and even then only on the first half of the lap when running on Racing Hards, from Indianapolis onwards there's barely any battery left so it runs out around 200 km/h. In the VR video above the supersoft tyres aid cornering so much that a lot of battery power is saved as the accelerations begin from higher speeds and thus require less hybrid power each time.

For the record my best time is 3'23 on Racing Hards. Not going to find more than a second or two more.
Click to expand...

Well spotted. It's pretty obvious the real car is a fair bit quicker but and those numbers tell you why.
 
pedrocor
Exactly. Remember the engines on this LMP1 are capable of way more than 506hp the car is credited. Actually the power levels are about that amount precisely because they are optimized to fuel consumption per lap. But they can beef it up a little if they want, in some cases, if they don't exceed the instant flow of 80.2 kg/h.
I think that's the case of this lap, as it (incredibly) run out of juice before the end of lap with the car ECU putting the car running on fumes (and electric power) from somewhere on Ford Chicanes and the Start Finish Line to not exceed the fuel per lap limit, which wasn't too bad, because it's short run, and the use of the fuel on the rest of the lap showed to be more efficient.
Click to expand...

Not exactly, the 80.2 kg/h is the maximum instantaneous flow rate, which define the peak power output through thermodynamics calculations.

However they also have to comply with a maximum consumption in kg/lap per lap which sets the length of each stint to about 13 laps. But they can play with this limitation as this is meant through 3 consecutive laps. I’m not sure how they apply this restriction during qualifying as they are just looking for one perfect lap...
 
No BoP, and with RS tyres (if you watched LM24 last year then you'll know that they mentioned he was driving on those for that lap)
 
John Crellin
Not necessarily. If the lap is slower because they were off the driving line then sure, but if the lap was slower due to slower speeds they should actually save fuel/lap. Like how your car burns more fuel at 80mph than at 50mph over the same distance
Click to expand...
That's my point :D
Sorry I haven't worded it clearly. When I did the maths on Kobayashi's 3:14 lap, I ended up with the answer that he used roughly 5L of fuel. Now if we take the 2016 Toyota lap time (a 3:20) and the same 80kg/h fuel regulation, we have to divide that fuel consumption rate over fewer laps (17.9 vs. 18.5 laps) because the time is slower. Adding to that is, like you said, the slower speeds they are doing, which would save even more fuel
 

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