The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

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Legro
If Lamborghini has LMP-1 project, it would make even more sense for Audi(or Porsche) to end their LMP program. And if not, it'd be very stupid for VAG to run 3 different teams in one series.
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It's happened before though, back in '03 Bentley raced alongside Audis.
 
Yes, and if the VAG group can make an awesome fight between 3 of their brands, drawing spectators all over the world to watch it, it's a win-win-win situation, probably for the cost of a single full on F1 operation.
 
GTPorsche
In fairness that was just an evolution of a modified R8C, so it might as well have just been an Audi by a different name.
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Not at all. From www.ultimatecarpage.com:

"Racing Technology Norfolk (RTN) was commissioned to design the new Bentley Le Mans racer. They had previously worked with Audi on the similar R8C that raced at Le Mans in 1999. While the R8C was designed by Tony Southgate, his compatriot Peter Elleray was hired to pen the Bentley that was labelled the EXP Speed 8. That was in reference to its experimental status, the 1929 and 1930 Le Mans winning Bentley Speed 6s and its eight cylinder engine. That twin-turbocharged V8 was the only common part shared with the Audi R8. The chassis, suspension, gearbox and aero-package were all developed from scratch.

Elleray penned a very elegant coupe shape with a relatively sharp nose and long tail. Underneath the carbon fiber panels, a sturdy carbon fiber monocoque could be found. Suspension was by double wishbones on both ends with torsion bar springs at the front and coils at the rear. Although a naturally aspirated engine was originally considered, it was eventually decided to fit the already victorious twin-turbo V8 engine. The compact 3.6 liter engine was mated to a six-speed gearbox that had been jointly developed by Bentley and Xtrac. The differences between the LMP 900 and LM GTP regulations meant that the Bentley featured slightly narrower tires than Audi R8, which was balanced out by a larger restrictor."
 
Hun200kmh
Yes, and if the VAG group can make an awesome fight between 3 of their brands, drawing spectators all over the world to watch it, it's a win-win-win situation, probably for the cost of a single full on F1 operation.
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I like this idea, I think we should go with this one!
 
GTPorsche
In fairness that was just an evolution of a modified R8C, so it might as well have just been an Audi by a different name.
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Except it wasn't as others have mentioned.


Point is, there hasn't been more then two VAG brands in LMP at a time and Bentley was the other VAG brand at the time and currently, Porsche is the other VAG brand.
 
Hun200kmh
Yes, and if the VAG group can make an awesome fight between 3 of their brands, drawing spectators all over the world to watch it, it's a win-win-win situation, probably for the cost of a single full on F1 operation.
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Autosport contributer Dieter Rencken recently wrote an article about why manufacturers prefer the WEC to F1, and a few figures were mentioned:
  • Toyota were able to win driver's and manufacturer's championships in 2014 for less than a quarter of it's former F1 budget, estimated to be £300million a year;
  • VAG spend about £600million a year on all of its participation in global motorsport - 2 WEC teams, 1 WRC team, various GT racing teams, the Lamborghini Trofeo, and other projects including Bentley and Ducati campaigns;
  • In 2013 VAG spent £8billion on R&D, and made profits of £10billion (£4billion of which came from Audi) (figures from Autocar magazine);
  • An F1 programme on a par with Mercedes would probably cost up to £350million to set up (starting from scratch) and about £250million a year to run;
  • Renault's F1 engine budget is double that of Toyota's entire WEC programme.
So VAG could certainly afford to enter Lamborghini as a WEC LMP1 team if they felt the need to. They could also enter F1, but when asked, an unnamed senior VW Group executive said "What for? It's no use ... it's far too expensive for the offering, TV audiences are dropping, the fan base is diminishing, F1's politics are ridiculous. What would we gain?"

"Then there is the question of one man..." - refering to Bernie Eccelstone.

I'm not suggesting it will happen, but I personally think 3 VAG manufacturers in WEC is more likely than 1 in F1.
 
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Roo
Autosport contributer Dieter Rencken recently wrote an article about why manufacturers prefer the WEC to F1, and a few figures were mentioned:
  • Toyota were able to win driver's and manufacturer's championships in 2014 for less than a quarter of it's former F1 budget, estimated to be £300million a year;
  • VAG spend about £600million a year on all of it's participation in global motorsport - 2 WEC teams, 1 WRC team, various GT racing teams, the Lamborghini Trofeo, and other projects including Bentley and Ducati campaigns;
  • In 2013 VAG spent £8billion on R&D, and made profits of £10billion (£4billion of which came from Audi) (figures from Autocar magazine);
  • An F1 programme on a par with Mercedes would probably cost up to £350million to set up (starting from scratch) and about £250million a year to run;
  • Renault's F1 engine budget is double that of Toyota's entire WEC programme.
So VAG could certainly afford to enter Lamborghini as a WEC LMP1 team if they felt the need to. They could also enter F1, but when asked, an unnamed senior VW Group executive said "What for? It's no use ... it's far too expensive for the offering, TV audiences are dropping, the fan base is diminishing, F1's politics are ridiculous. What would we gain?"

"Then there is the question of one man..." - refering to Bernie Eccelstone.

I'm not suggesting it will happen, but I personally think 3 VAG manufacturers in WEC is more likely than 1 in F1.
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This I agree with all of this. Cause this makes more sense, but I think it would be more reasonable to have Bentley running another LMP1 car than anything else. Lambo is possible but from the global marketing doesn't seem necessary at all.
 
I wouldn't mind a third VAG team as long as it's set up like Audi and Porsche where they run their own programs with no crossover (that I've heard of). If they are just going to piggyback and use the technology of one of the other teams than I'd rather not have them there.
 
I have been logging down all the articles pertaining to the ELMS and WEC on both sportscar365.com and motorsport.com and I have read from top to bottom most of the articles and the one thing regarding Lambo in LMP1 is that has not been mentioned on here is that they are not looking to LMP1 straight away. They have said an LMP2 engine customer programme is possible as early as next year (or a few weeks away!) with one existing team interested. The article on sportscar365 says an LMP1 programme is unlikely.
 
Diehardracer
I have been logging down all the articles pertaining to the ELMS and WEC on both sportscar365.com and motorsport.com and I have read from top to bottom most of the articles and the one thing regarding Lambo in LMP1 is that has not been mentioned on here is that they are not looking to LMP1 straight away. They have said an LMP2 engine customer programme is possible as early as next year (or a few weeks away!) with one existing team interested. The article on sportscar365 says an LMP1 programme is unlikely.
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And S365 and DSC are two reliable sources, motorsport.com isn't.
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
Why the hate for Audi, people seem to hate their domination of Le Mans yet instead of other companies stepping up and taking the challenge to them people are wanting them to just leave :confused:
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No I want they stay and Toyota keep beating them.

I don't want Lamborghini as a LMP1 team.
They should call Ferrari, McLaren Pagani and Koenigsegg for a huge GT1 championship instead.
 
HKS racer
No I want they stay and Toyota keep beating them.

I don't want Lamborghini as a LMP1 team.
They should call Ferrari, McLaren Pagani and Koenigsegg for a huge GT1 championship instead.
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Won't work for a number of reasons, but main one is cost. Totally illogical. Ferrari don't have the money for another enormous programme. McLaren have just started a brand new GT3 program, Pagani have nothing to gain by racing, and same for Koenigsegg.

Lamborghini I would welcome, but only if VAG allow all the groups to stay in.
 
HKS racer
No I want they stay and Toyota keep beating them.
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You spelled Porsche incorrectly. :sly:
I don't want Lamborghini as a LMP1 team.
They should call Ferrari, McLaren Pagani and Koenigsegg for a huge GT1 championship instead.
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What type of a GT1? Road car based homologation would be too hard to get working due to every one of those makes having completely different ways of performance and cost of developing completely new model for some racing class would be way too high. And racing based class would require too much effort by the carmakers for the class to be successful with those brands.
 
Furinkazen
Won't work for a number of reasons, but main one is cost. Totally illogical. Ferrari don't have the money for another enormous programme. McLaren have just started a brand new GT3 program, Pagani have nothing to gain by racing, and same for Koenigsegg.

Lamborghini I would welcome, but only if VAG allow all the groups to stay in.
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GT1 are the coolest race cars yet the most difficoult to organize a league with.

Ferrari had the money to develop FXX K which is basically a nu-school GT1 race car. Slick tyres and there you go. They same applies to P1 GTR. Pagani and Koenigsegg could find more customers for Zonda R Revolution and Koenigsegg One. Fair BOP with cars running in the range of 0,5 sec to each other. 1000 hp max power allowed.
Hopefully it will happen...

..in Sim Racing. :)
 
HKS racer
GT1 are the coolest race cars yet the most difficoult to organize a league with.

Ferrari had the money to develop FXX K which is basically a nu-school GT1 race car. Slick tyres and there you go. They same applies to P1 GTR. Pagani and Koenigsegg could find more customers for Zonda R Revolution and Koenigsegg One. Fair BOP with cars running in the range of 0,5 sec to each other. 1000 hp max power allowed.
Hopefully it will happen...

..in Sim Racing. :)
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Which is a long way from your original LMP1 orientated post but oh well...
 
Furinkazen
Which is a long way from your original LMP1 orientated post but oh well...
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Wouldn't you like a GT1 league with those monsters? At least in a sim?
And yes I forgot Lamgorghini which is the reason why I started daydream about GT1's in this thread.
 
HKS racer
Wouldn't you like a GT1 league with those monsters? At least in a sim?
And yes I forgot Lamgorghini which is the reason why I started daydream about GT1's in this thread.
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I'm with you!

Instead of homologation, the ACO could have invitational spots instead. If they think a mfg has a suitable car for (let's call it) GT1, they simply invite them to build a racecar.

If I had that power, I'd like to see McLaren P1 GTR, LaFerrari FxxK, Pagani Zonda R:evolucion (or a racing Huayra), Koenigsegg One:1, Porsche 918 RSR, and racing versions of Lamborghini Veneno, Jaguar XC75 and GTbyCitroën.
 
Mt. Lynx
I'm with you!

Instead of homologation, the ACO could have invitational spots instead. If they think a mfg has a suitable car for (let's call it) GT1, they simply invite them to build a racecar.

If I had that power, I'd like to see McLaren P1 GTR, LaFerrari FxxK, Pagani Zonda R:evolucion (or a racing Huayra), Koenigsegg One:1, Porsche 918 RSR, and racing versions of Lamborghini Veneno, Jaguar XC75 and GTbyCitroën.
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And that championship would die after about 2 seasons, or the category 1 and a half if lucky.
 

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