The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

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Furinkazen
Serious discussion. The BIG HONKING FIN and BIG HOLES. They did nothing... thoughts on what the ACO could do? If anything?
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As the Danish commentators said, I think the big fin only made it worse. I'll explain for those who don't see it already:

The Toyota comes at around 300km/h and is for some reason hit by the Ferrari. Normally, the air would flow around the car in a specific way, but when the car goes sideways, there will be a disturbance, and the air will seek another way around. As it's still being at least 200km/h, the air has impressive power, which in this case is partially laid on the fin, pushing that "backwards". That, along with weight transferring from one side of the car to another, causes the car to lift slightly, and with wind still going under the car, it'll suddenly lift off. At least that's how I understand it.

My solution would be to remove the fins as they don't seem to stop this from happening, in fact it might only make it worse..
 
I think the point is to slow the car as it turns sideways, same as the shark fin on NASCAR. Problem seems to be that it didn't slow it fast enough and they sure as h*ll can't make it any bigger! I wonder if those "scoops" that deploy when the car turns like they have in NASCAR would help?
 
What about this, Maybe the fin is too good at its job.

Hear me out on this, as can be seen with Davidson's crash when the car kicks sideways it takes off, the car looks stable when it's just entering it's slide though right?

Yet as soon as it's fully sideways and all the air is pushing on the fin (which is slowing the car down) the car begins to lift at the side, air rushes under the car, car flips. Surely that can only be possible if the side of the car is producing a massive amount of drag (which makes sense since thats what the fin is supposed to do) So the car does slow down because of the fin but what it doesn't do is prevent the car flipping, if anything it aids it?
 
MustangManiac
I think the point is to slow the car as it turns sideways, same as the shark fin on NASCAR. Problem seems to be that it didn't slow it fast enough and they sure as h*ll can't make it any bigger! I wonder if those "scoops" that deploy when the car turns like they have in NASCAR would help?
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I think the problem is all the fin does is add a flat, obstructive shape to an otherwise smooth surface, which makes flipping a car like that much easier along with the fact that the bottoms have this odd shape from the side that allows air underneith. If the fin were not there and the bottoms were back to the way they were in the early 2000s (Before the new gen rules), it would lessen the chance of them flipping at extreme yaw angles.
 
gorsad
A PDF about the new regs for 2014

2014 Regulations
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Very interesting. Thanks for sharing! 👍

It's pretty cool that the prototypes will be 1900mm wide in 2014 instead of being at the 2000mm width that is currently being used. This is primarily to reduce drag and increase fuel efficiency it says, but wouldn't this put more pressure on the teams in their aerodynamic tech and tyre preservation?

It's also good that they will be giving the smaller private teams a better chance. I think that's what we all want to see.
 
Tiddy
What about this, Maybe the fin is too good at its job.

Hear me out on this, as can be seen with Davidson's crash when the car kicks sideways it takes off, the car looks stable when it's just entering it's slide though right?

Yet as soon as it's fully sideways and all the air is pushing on the fin (which is slowing the car down) the car begins to lift at the side, air rushes under the car, car flips. Surely that can only be possible if the side of the car is producing a massive amount of drag (which makes sense since thats what the fin is supposed to do) So the car does slow down because of the fin but what it doesn't do is prevent the car flipping, if anything it aids it?
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I still think the fin was a waste of time with little to no proof that it actually worked.
It stinked too much of "we must do something and this is a cheap solution which we think works".

The FIA/ACO need to seriously research side-ways take-off from highspeed and carefully decide what they need to do, rather than rushing into decisions like this and potentially making the problem worse (and making the cars look god-awful).
 
Blues Deluxe
What with the dismal showing by the new Toyota TS030 Hybrid racers, I guess we all know what the fastest car in GT6 will be, eh? :sly:
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If you were actually watching the race, "Dismal" wouldn't be the word to describe them.

Ardius
I still think the fin was a waste of time with little to no proof that it actually worked.
It stinked too much of "we must do something and this is a cheap solution which we think works".

The FIA/ACO need to seriously research side-ways take-off from highspeed and carefully decide what they need to do, rather than rushing into decisions like this and potentially making the problem worse (and making the cars look god-awful).
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Felt that way ever since they introduced them (that and shorteing the Rear wing width). Would you agree with the theory I have in how they instead aid in flipping the car?
 
Ardius
I still think the fin was a waste of time with little to no proof that it actually worked.
It stinked too much of "we must do something and this is a cheap solution which we think works".

The FIA/ACO need to seriously research side-ways take-off from highspeed and carefully decide what they need to do, rather than rushing into decisions like this and potentially making the problem worse (and making the cars look god-awful).
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NASCAR has plenty of proof that a fin can help stabilize a car and slow it enough to keep it from flipping so it is not quite the failed concept that you make it out to be. I have serious doubts that the FIA/ACO does not take safety seriously. One would think that both the owners (who spend millions) and the drivers (who put their *ss on the line) would make sure of it.
 
RACECAR
Felt that way ever since they introduced them (that and shorteing the Rear wing width). Would you agree with the theory I have in how they instead aid in flipping the car?
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I'm not so sure. The flips before and after the fins seem similar. They sure haven't improved the situation, thats for sure.

MustangManiac
NASCAR has plenty of proof that a fin can help stabilize a car and slow it enough to keep it from flipping so it is not quite the failed concept that you make it out to be. I have serious doubts that the FIA/ACO does not take safety seriously. One would think that both the owners (who spend millions) and the drivers (who put their *ss on the line) would make sure of it.
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I realise that in theory it should work. But I just wonder how much research was actually done into the effectiveness of these fins.
NASCAR is a whole different beast in my opinion, while the aero is important, its not the same as LMP. What helps one doesn't necessarily help the other.

Lets also be fair and point out that people can make mistakes. They could have done all the research and simulation in the world but the concept can never really be proved until its put into the real world. As long as they accept they still need to work on it then its ok.
 
rallymorten
The Toyota comes at around 300km/h and is for some reason hit by the Ferrari.
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It wasn't just hit by a Ferrari for some reason. It's always a Ferrari when the front runners hit a GT car, or so it seems anyway.









Sad to hear that Davidson had broken vertebrae. Was watching the race on the telly, went back from the kitchen after grabbing a bite to eat and just saw a load of marshals and an upside down Ferrari on the screen. That was unnerving. Good race in general though, congratulations in particular to Rebellion racing, beating one of the Audis. 👍
 
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MustangManiac
NASCAR has plenty of proof that a fin can help stabilize a car and slow it enough to keep it from flipping so it is not quite the failed concept that you make it out to be. I have serious doubts that the FIA/ACO does not take safety seriously. One would think that both the owners (who spend millions) and the drivers (who put their *ss on the line) would make sure of it.
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Problem is though, the Current NASCAR COT and the current Gen LMP cars are completely different aerodynamic shapes. The fin works with the COT because there is also the spoiler and the Flaps so it has by far more aid in keeping the car grounded Unlike when they had the wing, which essentially was a instant takeoff when put exactly in the same situation. The Fin on the LMPs don't prevent takeoffs and infact, they help them go in the air even faster.
 

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