The Manor-Marussia Saga

  • Thread starter Thread starter TenEightyOne
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What does that mean by 'supply'. A McLaren in Caterham livery? I thought customer cars were equally forbidden.
 
DG_Silva
It will be interesting to see what the FIA do with the qualifying for the two races. Are they going to drop 2 rounds of 4, or 2 for the first round and 6 for the second?
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Regulations states:

The above procedure is based upon a Championship entry of 26 cars. If 24 cars are entered seven will be excluded after Q1 and Q2 and if 22 cars are entered only six cars will be excluded after Q1 and Q2.

If a pattern is to be followed, that would mean minus 4 at both sessions.


Concerning customer cars it is interersting to note that Ferrari - one of it's biggest supporter - has a good part of Marussia's fate in their hands...:odd:
 
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So it looks like three car teams is going to happen then... Be good to see some of the reserve drivers get a chance.
 
Class B is dead. Let's see what Haas can bring.
 
Furinkazen
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Glad I called it when I did. Looks like 2010 was for nothing, unless your name is Braw...I mean Mercedes. And clearly that wasn't going to go belly up in this millennium or the next.
You know what this tells me, that the value of a pay driver is hefty, I'm guessing their is some clause in the Marussia/Ferrari deal along with Jules other sponsors that if he doesn't race well, the money flow dries up.

Since the poor guy is fighting for his life, it sadly seems the team he is driving for is also having even more tougher losses. What a sad thing for a group that got it's first points finally this season. To be honest I'd rather see Sauber go than Marussia but...
 
prisonermonkeys
Maybe it will thin out some of the pay drivers. No more Chiltons and Ericssons; instead, the Ocons of the world might get a shot.
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I agree with this this, is the only good I can see in three car teams. Let's think about this really quick before I get going, if a team like Lotus though struggling is allowed to build three cars they could bring two high end pay drivers and one true talented driver, okay. Then you have teams like the top 5 (McLaren, Merc, RBR, Ferrari, and Williams-for now) brininging in their usual class act racers but newer talents that could take over in a few years time. Thus more Lewis Hamiltons and Vettels of the world per say and less Maldonado's and Gutierrez's.

Though the one question I have of this whole saga that Will Buxton put best is this...

“Questions have always been asked but now answers must be given as to the true story behind a selection process that saw the seemingly worthy applications of Epsilon Euskadi, N Technology, Prodrive and Lola, amongst others, overlooked in favour of Campos (which became HRT), Lightspeed (which became Lotus/Caterham), USF1 (which never even made a race), and Manor Racing (which became Virgin and then Marussia.)”

Even if those others weren't amazingly more worthy but just slightly, what was it that made Catheram, HRT and Virgin/Manor/Marussia the three to go with along with the never arrived USF1? I feel with USF1 it was about using it to line up track deals and new U.S. Sponsorship or returned sponsorship from the past to F1.
 
F1 should consider going the way of MotoGP by letting the big boys fight for the title whilst the smaller teams are restricted to a certain extent but can still compete and on a much lower budget, it works well for them.
 
Which is sort of what these newer teams were promised (remember the £40,000,000 budget proposal?) but it just hasn't worked out that way.
 
Epsilon were horrible. They were never viable. They went belly-up a few years ago. Lola also had financial problems, even when they were just selling customer LMP chassis.

N.Technology had no open-wheel experience, unlike Manor, who did. They also aggressively pursued the FIA in the courts.

Prodrive traded on the success of their Impreza WRC for years. Some of their more-recent programmes, like the Aston Martin AMR-One were absolute disasters.
 
TenEightyOne
I hate the idea of three-car teams.
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It might be an easy way to bring budgets down. Toto Wolff reckons it will cost $20 million for a third car. So make them run a third car, but only allow them to have two cars score WCC points. Until now, they have happily thrown millions at finding a tenth of a second over five and a half kilometres. But with a third car, no discernable benefit to them and all of the incentive in the world in the shape of a cost they cannot absorb, watch them pounce on the idea of cost cutting. And once they get the ball running, why stop there? The FIA has tried to lure them with a carrot for years and it hasn't worked. Now it's time for the stick.
 
In years gone by it wasn't unusual for teams to run three or even four different cars over the course of a season but we are talking pre-1984 for this kind of stuff. It isn't without precedent and if it actually can keep costs down and the grids up, I'm okay with it.
 
Three-car teams does look the likely way forward. Perhaps limit the 3rd car to rookie and 2nd season drivers only?
 
prisonermonkeys
It might be an easy way to bring budgets down. Toto Wolff reckons it will cost $20 million for a third car. So make them run a third car, but only allow them to have two cars score WCC points.
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That's the bit I hate though... if a car is on track and in the mix it should represent points (at the right time it could certainly represent a loss of points for another car that might go on to score).

Last time we had 3-car teams the sport was completely different, nowadays with a pack all running less than a few seconds difference between them I think the possibility for inveiglement with the "non-scoring car" is just too great. For example, you might easily find the non-scoring Ferrari in a position to spoil the race for a scoring Force-India leading from a scoring STR.

And if all cars score...then all teams should be able to run three cars. Which would be nigh-on-impossible with the current financial model, I think. And if that was the case then the points would need to be adjusted too.

I just hate the whole idea :D
 
Liquid
What does that mean by 'supply'. A McLaren in Caterham livery? I thought customer cars were equally forbidden.
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"They would supply a third car to someone else so if, for example, Sauber disappeared, a team could do a deal with Sauber. Ferrari could say, 'we will give you a car, all that goes with it, and we want you to put this sponsor on it. You have your own sponsors but we want you to include this one as well and we want you to take this driver'. The team wouldn't have to go under then would they? If Red Bull decided they would give a car to Caterham for example that could solve their problem."

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Bernie obviously thinks it could work, but to me it seems like a total mine-field of an idea.
 
MatskiMonk
" If Red Bull decided they would give a car to Caterham for example that could solve their problem."
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Think of how Bernie works though... he says "this is what you're gonna get. If you don't like it think of something else or go home".

They usually think of something else very quickly.
 
That's what they want the third car to be used for? :lol:
 
TenEightyOne
Think of how Bernie works though... he says "this is what you're gonna get. If you don't like it think of something else or go home".

They usually think of something else very quickly.
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I honestly don't see how the teams can come up with anything else, and if this is truly what the teams have signed up for, they're stuck with it.
 
Ugh, I hate seeing all these smaller teams go. I can't believe that there's still no sort of safety net for the teams where most talent gets their first steps in the F1. I hope Caterham and Marussia find some way to get more money or some way to get the costs down.
 
Sky are saying that there may be a buyer for Marussia.

MatskiMonk
I honestly don't see how the teams can come up with anything else, and if this is truly what the teams have signed up for, they're stuck with it.
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I meant in terms of proposing supplier-cars, he's mentioned this before when he's wanted to stir the pot.
 
Chilton's dad should buy the team. Run Tom as the second driver.
 
Marussia being in a better position than Caterham helps them get a buyer since there's the bonus at the end of the season waiting for them.
 
TheCracker
Chilton's dad should buy the team. Run Tom as the second driver.
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I wonder if there's any extra liability cost involved with Marussia, one driver has died as a result of a crash and another is in a critical condition. Presumably there must be insurances and things in place, not sure how motorsport insurance works at that level.
 
GTPorsche
Marussia being in a better position than Caterham helps them get a buyer since there's the bonus at the end of the season waiting for them.
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But is it though? Sauber could very well score enough points to overtake them in the WCC.
 
pyrates
But is it though? Sauber could very well score enough points to overtake them in the WCC.
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As of right now, they're the ones with the shiny $40 million bonus coming to them. It's very well possible that Sauber, or even on a higher chance of craziness happening... Lotus, could score 3 points somehow and get that 9th place.
 
GTPorsche
As of right now, they're the ones with the shiny $40 million bonus coming to them. It's very well possible that Sauber, or even on a higher chance of craziness happening... Lotus, could score 3 points somehow and get that 9th place.
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Don't forget the double points in Abu Dhabi. With 3 races to go the $40m are anything but safe, especially when they don't turn up to the races.
 
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