The Manor-Marussia Saga

  • Thread starter Thread starter TenEightyOne
  • 601 comments
  • 33,228 views
Which in turn makes even harder for up and coming drivers to get on the grid then.
 
Tired Tyres
Which in turn makes even harder for up and coming drivers to get on the grid then.
Click to expand...

Or you could look at it the other way and say that it will ensure that up and coming drivers actually have to be really good to get on the grid, which is hardly a bad thing. Bottas, Magnussen and Kvyat seem to be doing just fine and any team would be happy to have rookies like them.
 
prisonermonkeys
I have to wonder ... are the demise of Marussia and Caterham necessarily a bad thing? The 2015 grid might be down on numbers, but look at the driver line-ups - we're building up to one of the strongest grids in years. Gutierrez, Sutil and Chilton are gone, and the only real pay drivers are Maldonado, Nasr and Ericsson. But even then, those three do have some merit to being there; they're not rich kids living out some kind of wish fulfilment like Chilton. But if Caterham and/or Marussia (as Manor) could be saved, they would almost certainly run pay drivers. Twenty-two cars might be nice, but not when it means entertaining the idea of drivers like Chilton and van der Garde.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that Maldonado deserves to be in F1?
 
ukfan758
So you're saying that Maldonado deserves to be in F1?
Click to expand...

He's a very fast driver for sure, he's just not so good with other cars around him. In a sim he'd be a hotlapper rather than a racer :)

He should have won the Formula Renault 3.5 but was relegated to third after a technical inquiry disqualified the car, he also had some excellent GP2 races including an epic win at Monaco.

I'd say he got to F1 on merit... I'm just not so sure he's demonstrated a rounded-enough ability to stay there. In fact, Spain '12 aside, I'm sure he hasn't.
 
TenEightyOne
And "stealing" sponsors is a narrow view, sponsor changes/poaches have been part-and-parcel of F1 since the 70s. Sponsors also include performance clauses in contracts in the way that drivers and teams do; very often we don't see the actual political/contractual machinations of sponsorship clauses (or sponsorship clashes).
Click to expand...

I would say that's been part of Motorsports as a whole for a while ever since Sponsors started coming in.


Off-Topic: Strangely as much as I despise Tobacco itself, I kinda miss the Tabacco money in Motorsport. It was really the one sponsorship that was guaranteed to keep many series afloat and look at the many amazing liveries we were left with.
 
Last edited:
RACECAR
I would say that's been part of Motorsports as a whole for a whole ever since Sponsors started coming in.


Off-Topic: Strangely as much as I despise Tobacco itself, I kinda miss the Tobacco money in Motorsport. It was really the one sponsorship that was guaranteed to keep many series afloat and look at the many amazing liveries we were left with.
Click to expand...

Don't you think that the only reason we find those tobacco liveries amazing was because of the amount of time tobacco had a strong hold on motorsport sponsorship? Not because they were creative like the BMW art cars?

E.g. the Marlboro livery. Legendary and recognisable with McLaren, Senna, Penske, Peter Brock etc.

But in essence its a white car with a red chevron. Incredibly simple.

There are still many amazing liveries today, the Vodafone McLaren liveries were really nice as were the later Toyota ones.

Don't get me wrong, I do love all the old tobacco liveries but this is what I've thought about for a while.
 
The Caterham saga is before the High Court, trying to unravel the tangled skein of the team's finances. According to Finbarr O'Connell, assets were misplaced and being appropriated by various entities to the point where they suspected that something was very wrong in the team's practices.
 
It starts out bad enough, but by line 15, which is Ferarri again, it's like," Are you kidding me? Who's the idiot who let them keep going?"
 
I find it pathetic that they owed money to GP venues.
 
prisonermonkeys
O'Connell reckons he's got three potential buyers for Caterham lined up - one is a billionaire, and the other two have unspecified connections to the automotive industry:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/...e-potential-buyers-and-gives-them-a-deadline/

He reckons that if they're going to commit to race, then the deal needs to be brokered by the end of the month.
Click to expand...
I know they're running their 2014 car but I doubt they would get on the grid. The other 2 buyers with no specified Motorsport experience would be a bad idea. Especially if one of their last names starts with K and ends in olles.
 
jake2013guy
The other 2 buyers with no specified Motorsport experience would be a bad idea.
Click to expand...
Just because their experience hasn't been specified, that doesn't mean that they don't have it. It simply hasn't been disclosed because administrators like O'Connell don't reveal the identities of potential buyers.
 
prisonermonkeys
Just because their experience hasn't been specified, that doesn't mean that they don't have it. It simply hasn't been disclosed because administrators like O'Connell don't reveal the identities of potential buyers.
Click to expand...
I see that. However, in Caterham or Marussia's situation, I would prefer the people with money come in and pay the creditors then sort the team out from there.
 
jake2013guy
However, in Caterham or Marussia's situation, I would prefer the people with money come in and pay the creditors then sort the team out from there.
Click to expand...
And I'm sure you will get dozens of potential buyers just itching to sink tens of millions of dollars into wiping a team's debts before they can start spending money actually running the team.

Marussia and Caterham are completely defunct. They have massive debts, limited assets, and no equity. Nobody in their right mind is going to want to buy into that. That's what the administrators are for - they clean up the bad debts, keep as many of the assets intact as possible, and try to bring the team back to a manageable state in the hopes of finding a buyer.
 
prisonermonkeys
And I'm sure you will get dozens of potential buyers just itching to sink tens of millions of dollars into wiping a team's debts before they can start spending money actually running the team.
Click to expand...
I know that's sarcasm by the way.

prisonermonkeys
Marussia and Caterham are completely defunct. They have massive debts, limited assets, and no equity. Nobody in their right mind is going to want to buy into that. That's what the administrators are for - they clean up the bad debts, keep as many of the assets intact as possible, and try to bring the team back to a manageable state in the hopes of finding a buyer.
Click to expand...
If not all of the debts cannot be wiped, then the point you said above still applies. Then Caterham have no hope.
 
So are we looking at 18 cars this upcoming season? Because I thought Marussia had been transformed into Manor Grand Prix(?).
 
jake2013guy
I know that's sarcasm by the way.
Click to expand...
Good.

If not all of the debts cannot be wiped, then the point you said above still applies. Then Caterham have no hope.
Click to expand...
The administrator doesn't just show up one day. They answer to the creditors. They will go through and do a full inventory of the entity they are controlling, and then they will figure out how much they can sell off, and from there, they will prioritise the creditors. The entity will either then be sold or returned to the previous owners (in this case, they're likely to be sold). If sold, the money will be used to further clear any outstanding debts. If there is still debt existing, then the creditors will have to write it off as bad debt. The creditors know this and agree to it goingin.

Marussia had debts of $50 million when it collapsed. Of that, they owed $17 million to Ferrari and $10 million to McLaren. These would most likely be low-priority debts. The administrator would want to pay as many creditors as possible, because many of them have debts of their own, whereas Ferrari and McLaren could survive the losses.
 
ukfan758
Here is the second part:http://www.scribd.com/doc/251396337/Marussia-Creditors-2
Read the final page, you know they were having financial problems when they couldn't afford £2.23 Snap On tools :lol:
Click to expand...

Based on the price of even the least-expensive Snap-On Tools, I'd say they were on a payment plan (like many techs/shops) and they just missed that final fraction of a payment. $3.50 probably wouldn't buy you any single item from their catalog nor trucks.

It's like getting a $20 gift certificate for a Tag Heuer...what are you going to do with that?
 
Pupik
Based on the price of even the least-expensive Snap-On Tools, I'd say they were on a payment plan (like many techs/shops) and they just missed that final fraction of a payment. $3.50 probably wouldn't buy you any single item from their catalog nor trucks.

It's like getting a $20 gift certificate for a Tag Heuer...what are you going to do with that?
Click to expand...

Get a wonderful key chain that you can pretend is an expensive watch, duh. :dopey::)
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
So as many already have said, it wont be happening. Which was obvious a month ago when all the assets were sold in a live online and in person auction...
Click to expand...
Lowdon says that it was the non-essential assets. It looks like the administrators structured the auctions to give the team every possible chance to compete. Even if Haas purchased the factory, they can rent it from him for the time being.
 
prisonermonkeys
Lowdon says that it was the non-essential assets. It looks like the administrators structured the auctions to give the team every possible chance to compete. Even if Haas purchased the factory, they can rent it from him for the time being.
Click to expand...

I still don't see an 11th hour miracle happening for these guys, as much as I like them I think I'll be a realist about it until proven otherwise.
 
Oh, I doubt they'll be with us for much longer, either. The only plausible explanation is that the team is in negotiations, but their enthusiasm has been tempered by the upcoming auction and Lowdon is trying to head that off.
 

Latest Posts

Back