The Matrix: Revolutions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Famine
  • 53 comments
  • 1,878 views
I just watched Revolutions about a week ago. Terrible. If it weren't for the fact that I knew there was going to be a ****ing awesome fight scene at the very end, I wouldn't have continued to watch it. That, and I do enjoy the cinematography and special effects of the series.

I loved the first two, but this one sucked more than Police Academy 11.
 
Anderton
Okay, here we go...

The Oracle actress did die of diabetes, not "diabetes." Why put it in quotes? Are you skeptical or just poking fun at someone dying?

Neither. I just have a far better understanding of medicine than you do, apparently. You cannot die of diabetes, just as you cannot die from AIDS*.

And whilst you're on the subject of "practising what you preach", I clearly typed ""diabetes"." and not ""diabetes."".


*A quick check reveals the cause of death, officially, as "Complications arising from diabetes". I'd pretend to be shocked, but I honestly can't be bothered. See? You cannot die from "diabetes".
 
Famine
Did you copy and paste any of that? :D

Nice answer, nonetheless.

Same twins - used to be builders on a BBC home improvement programme presented by Carol Smillie. Their names were on the cast list at IMDB.com for the 3rd film when it was in pre-production. But they never turned up...

Apparently the actress playing the Oracle died of "diabetes"...

Well what's "apparently" about it? She had diabetes, and now she's dead. and if you have an advanced knowledge of medicine, maybe you can sharpen your film research skills as well, because everyone else knows why the Oracle was played by a different actress in the third installment. And the technical explanation of how she died doesn't really matter a lick, because she's still dead. Only for some reason you feel the need to show your prowess for nit-picking through someone's info (whoever you read it from first that she died of diabetes) and using this minor oversight as fuel for your anti-Matrix Revolutions campaign. I believe this gives ME the right to nitpick with your posts, particularly your use of the "it's" contraction. :irked:
 
Yeah.... right...

Maybe you should lay off the caffeine for a little while?

Unlike most other people, I don't like to be told what the plot of a film is, in its entirety, before I go and see it. Therefore the change of actress for the Oracle came as a surprise. Since no-one answered my question I looked on IMDB to find that they'd mentioned her cause of death as "Diabetes" - the quotes reflect that the information came from another source - and posted it as such. I also know that you cannot die of "diabetes", so I would put it in quotes anyway as it is not a valid cause of death. I would do the same with "AIDS".. Clearly it does "matter a lick", seeing as you've made such a big deal out of it. No-one else particularly cared about it.

This was your original "fault" (notice the quotes there) with my post and I have shown that to be unsubstantiated - you apparently feel that I hate the film so much that I mock people dying. However, if you feel you have a point to make, carry on attempting to "nit-pick" all you like. I suggest you work on reading comprehension first though.


I have no anti-anything campaign. I reviewed a film which I didn't like. If you have a problem with that, it is, as the phrase suggests, your problem.
 
So now most other people must like being told the plot of a film before seeing it, according to you? What does that mean?! And even if we do, so what? The new Oracle story was all over the place, and if you managed to escape hearing any of the Matrix 2 and 3 hype before seeing each movie, kudos to you. They explained why she died in the movie itself, and that you didn't know why she was a different actor is YOUR problem, which you need to solve on your own.

"Oh, and the Merovingian and the Trainman. Huh? What do they do? And why is the Oracle a different person (presumably the actress wanted too much money, or died)?"

I don't know why you even included it in your review, which was NEGATIVE, unless you saw it as a NEGATIVE aspect of the film. If you did, you must feel stupid now because yes, she did DIE, and no she didn't want more money. There was no way around it.

And I didn't find the Merovingian and Trainman roles to be that difficult to understand, particularly because they were both explained IN DETAIL by the guy in the train station with Neo. If you don't understand something despite its being explained in the movie, don't use it as fodder for why you think the movie was bad.

The reason they can't go up in the hovercraft is because the clouds formed when humans nuked the planet will short it out, another thing which is explained as it happens. But for some reason them seeing the sun is, what, cheesy? Predictable? Neither has ever seen the real sun, and neither have we as the audience, throughout the entire trilogy. I don't think it's that cheesy, even if you did predict it before it happened (wow, you knew they would see the sun above the clouds!!)

I still don't understand why you even mentioned the Oracle matter in your review if you don't think it has anything to do with the movie being bad. The fact that I chose to counter it at the beginning of a long post that dealt with many other issues besides your Oracle one is not me nit-picking, but responding to a post I don't agree with. If you had concrete evidence, instead of the outrageous claim that the Wachowskis had "nothing to do with the directing" I wouldn't have responded at all. I've heard too many people jump to a complete hatred of Matrix Revolutions without enough reasons why. The movie was still 100 times better than Paycheck and The Chronicles of Riddick put together, so I don't think it is that bad.
 
Anderton
"Oh, and the Merovingian and the Trainman. Huh? What do they do? And why is the Oracle a different person (presumably the actress wanted too much money, or died)?"

I don't know why you even included it in your review, which was NEGATIVE, unless you saw it as a NEGATIVE aspect of the film. If you did, you must feel stupid now because yes, she did DIE, and no she didn't want more money. There was no way around it.

I was asking a valid question of the members of this site. Even at 7500 posts here, there's still things I need the answer to. It wasn't part of the review, merely a question.

Anderton
And I didn't find the Merovingian and Trainman roles to be that difficult to understand, particularly because they were both explained IN DETAIL by the guy in the train station with Neo. If you don't understand something despite its being explained in the movie, don't use it as fodder for why you think the movie was bad.

See above.

Anderton
The fact that I chose to counter it at the beginning of a long post that dealt with many other issues besides your Oracle one is not me nit-picking

Really? So what did this mean then?

Anderton
I believe this gives ME the right to nitpick with your posts



Anderton
If you had concrete evidence

Laughable, coming from you.

Anderton
instead of the outrageous claim that the Wachowskis had "nothing to do with the directing" I wouldn't have responded at all.

Really? Where WAS the direction?

As I said, the movie concentrated on a single aspect of the story, such as it was, for 20 minutes, then moved to the other aspect of the story for 20 minutes. It was almost as if the actors were just allowed to carry on doing their lines until someone woke up and shouted "cut". Again, as I said, if it were a book it'd be 500 pages long, full of repetitive dialogue and only 4 chapters long.

Having re-watched the first one the other day, why does Smith state that there were two Matrices (one "perfect", but rejected by the human mind, then the current one), when the Architect says there have been six? You seem to know the films, so please explain.


Anderton
I've heard too many people jump to a complete hatred of Matrix Revolutions without enough reasons why.

It's a bad film, that's why. They seem to have gone overboard on presenting bullet time again - not so impressive when it's being used on adverts for milk - and subtext.

Anderton
The movie was still 100 times better than Paycheck and The Chronicles of Riddick put together, so I don't think it is that bad.

Seen my review of Paycheck... Whoah....

Incidentally, on 2 pages of this thread, 7 people who've actually seen the film agreed with me.
 
Smith only ever says that thei very first Matrix was designed to be perfect, a paradise so to speak. And that human beings' minds kept rejecting it. He does not say there were only two Matrices.

"I was asking a valid question of the members of this site. Even at 7500 posts here, there's still things I need the answer to. It wasn't part of the review, merely a question."

If you think I am stupid enough not to notice your derogatory tone when you say "Oh, and the Merovingian and the Trainman. Huh? What do they do? And why is the Oracle a different person (presumably the actress wanted too much money, or died)?" then you have underestimated me. Don't deny that you hated these two characters' roles, and don't deny that it's because you didn't understand them. If you were really innocently trying to find out what in fact their purposes were, wouldn't you have asked in a more simple way, such as "What purpose do the Trainman and the Merovingian serve?" Please. Your tone shows through even with type only.

Next up, let's deal with the whole "nit-picking" thing. Since you have an obvious knack for cutting and pasting my posts and taking comments out of context, I think it's only fair to include the whole sentence instead of just one half of it. What I said, in its entirety, was:

"I believe this gives ME the right to nitpick with your posts, particularly your use of the "it's" contraction."

There it is, in plain sight. If you want an answer to your question, "Really? So what did this mean then?" you need look no further than the END OF THE SENTENCE! I was not referring to the Oracle subject as me nit-picking, but my questioning you on your use of the it-is contraction, from another post, something which you objected to earlier. The point I was trying to make, and it's quite clear you never got it the first time, was that if you are allowed to call someone on their mis-stating the facts regarding how the actress who played the Oracle died (in reality from "complications resulting from diabetes" and not simply from "diabetes" itself, since you can't die from diabetes) then I am entitled to call you on your use of the English language.

"I just have a far better understanding of medicine than you do, apparently. You cannot die of diabetes, just as you cannot die from AIDS*."

Touchee. And I, apparently, have a better understanding of English. You make your challenges in the name of medical truth wherever you see fit, and I'll make mine in the name of grammatical correctness wherever I see fit. And besides, most people would say she died of diabetes anyway, just like if I had a friend who in reality died because of an opportunistic infection caused by AIDS, I would tell people he/she died of AIDS, because it's simple, and it lets people know enough of the truth without me coming across as a pompous fill-in-the-blank.

Now let us once again move on to the technical aspects of the film itself. The reason we remain with the defense of Zion until it is over before moving to Neo's plight is simple if you question what the movie would be like if it were interspersed. To split up the battle of the Dock would have greatly reduced its impact, a fact I'm sure you won't identify with because you didn't like the movie anyway, but nevertheless this is the reason. The directors DID divide it up somewhat by interspersing scenes from the other significant subplot, that of Niobe and Morpheus attempting to sneak past the sentinels and return to Zion to fire their EMP.

The same reason applies to Neo's epic final battle with Smith. If after plunging hundreds of feet into the air and breaking through a cement wall into a building, we were forced to abandon the two opponents while we went back to see what was happening in Zion, we would rapidly lose interest and cease to care what happens to Neo, since the battle would not be presented in its entirety, from start to finish. There's a little thing called momentum that you have to consider when editing a movie together, and such a battle - which the audience has presumably waited through two movies to see - absolutely MUST NOT be fettered when finally delivered to us. Matrix Revolutions has two major battles, and we need to see them both presented to us uninterrupted so we are able to witness the buildup to each of their individual climaxes.

I think you and I have been left alone in this thread to bicker amongst ourselves. But, as the tagline for a not-that-bad movie states, "Everything that has a beginning has an end." Or perhaps, "The purpose of life is to end" is more pertinent here. Who knows such things? Only the Oracle.
 
Anderton
Touchee. And I, apparently, have a better understanding of English.

There's irony, right there.

Okay, so "touché" is actually a French word, but it is commonly used in English.

Tone does not carry well in written communications. Your inferences from my posts are your problem. You cannot accuse me of implying things I did not imply.

I suggest you give up posting here before you run out of intelligence.

Oh, too late.
 
Famine
There's irony, right there.

Okay, so "touché" is actually a French word, but it is commonly used in English.

Tone does not carry well in written communications. Your inferences from my posts are your problem. You cannot accuse me of implying things I did not imply.

I suggest you give up posting here before you run out of intelligence.

Oh, too late.
Now you're just being nasty. Yes, I will stop posting because the room has just darkened and I don't like the atmosphere.

But for argument's sake, how exactly does one run out of intelligence? Is intelligence like a tank of cas and when you get near the E you're in trouble? Or is it more like a dead end, where you have to turn back the way you came? I'm just asking because I can't seem to grasp such a concept...must be I'm running out of intelligence. I guess I'll go to the gas station and fill'er up with some premium intelligence.

Nice post, by the way. Didn't really address anything about the movie which I wrote, just grabbed a hold of a more or less irrelevant point as you tried desperately to hang on to something before going under. I will assume that my points about the film itself were either completely not understood or that they made their point.
 
Anderton
I will assume that my points about the film itself were either completely not understood or that they made their point.

That's the problem - in all of your posts since joining this site. Your assumptions.

You infer things from my post, yet make it my fault. You assume all Integra drivers to be idots. You assume Neons are "girl's cars".

Feel free to assume whatever you wish - you've shown no sign of stopping thus far. But rest assured that up until now your assumptions have all been dead wrong.
 
Famine
Okay.

This bloke Leonard, who has no ability to make short term memories, is after the person who killed his wife - and left him with his "condition". He leaves clues for himself - as he'll forget them - in the form of polaroid photographs and tattoos all over his body. He knows certain facts about the killer. But above all he must remember Sammy Jankis - someone with a similar condition he investigated as an insurance claims assessor. Sammy Jankis was found to be able to make new memories through repetition, so his case was dismissed, and he accidentally killed his wife through an insulin overdose she got him to administer, because she believed he would remember and not keep injecting her.

Only Sammy Jankis didn't kill his wife - although Leonard remembers it that way. Leonard killed his own wife - Leonard IS Sammy Jankis, but without being Sammy Jankis (he is how he remembers Sammy Jankis to be, and not who Sammy Jankis really was).

Leonard is taken advantage of by characters played by Joe Pantoliano (who he later kills), Carrie-Ann Moss (who screws with him, after he's killed her boyfriend - a local drug dealer - in the belief that he was the killer of his wife). Although John Gemmill (Pantoliano's character) isn't really taking advantage of him, because Leonard can't remember killing the person who killed his wife (and injured him at the same time), even though he did, even though no-one killed his wife.

And the entire film plays backwards in 15 minute segments, interspersed with a black and white sequence of him on the phone in normal time.

It's been a while since I saw Memento, but unless I read you wrong, I think you missed a crucial part. Leonard fakes his own memory and makes himself believe that Joe Pantoliano is the guy he's looking for *on purpose*. Surely that was the epiphanic moment of the movie for mel; it was introduced by Carrie-Ann's abuse of Leonard in a similar way, something you were waiting for, but realising he was purposely faking his own memory was a complete surprise to me and why I now still remember (and love) the film.

I liked the Matrix, but I wasn't bothered by any hype for all three of the movies. I think the only problem of the other two Matrices is the first one, which was just too damn good. But the other two were satisfactory to me and leave enough questions up for debate. For instance, was the peace really between the humans and robots, and outside the matrix? Or was everything just the loading routine for the next matrix? (I'd say probably) I also like how the matrix plays with the idea of some people just being content with going through the motions in their lives (those that are willingly part of the matrix, and some even wanting to return voluntarily), and others who need to look further, the religious and the philosophers.

I think the only place where the Matrix failed was that it couldn't even remotely recreate the same experience of the first Matrix for a large part of its audience. The first layer, the treatise, wasn't a satisfactory ending - the regular cinema going crowd probably hates a draw even more than a bad ending, and that was a miscalculation. :D

For me personally, the second layer (including its murky buildup in part 2, that left me thinking for a fair bit) was good enough. I can see very well how for many others it wasn't, and I respect that. But I'm with Anders ... Ne ... Anderton :D here, they did a great job despite the setbacks (a certain singers' death wasn't one of them - I mourne her loss as a singer/songwriter but I doubt she'd have done the film justice, witnessing her previous work)
 
Arwin
It's been a while since I saw Memento, but unless I read you wrong, I think you missed a crucial part.

Well, I didn't want to give too much of the story away.

I watched it again yesterday, oddly, and noticed I actually got one bit wrong. See? It must have been confusing...! :lol:
 
Famine
That's the problem - in all of your posts since joining this site. Your assumptions.

You infer things from my post, yet make it my fault. You assume all Integra drivers to be idots. You assume Neons are "girl's cars".

Feel free to assume whatever you wish - you've shown no sign of stopping thus far. But rest assured that up until now your assumptions have all been dead wrong.
So why don't you tell me why you haven't responded to anything I said about the movie in my second-to-last post? If you don't respond and don't say why you aren't responding, the natural human behavioural response is to form an assumption.

And the Neon is a way-emasculating car on this side of the ocean, and a piece of junk too. That's why Dodge/Chrysler stopped marketing it under the Neon name and started calling it something less femenine, the SX 2.0.
 
The thread was created on 3rd April this year. Assume that, seeing as I thought the film sucked, I haven't watched it since and, in the intervening 4 months, much of it has passed from my memory due to antipathy. I cannot respond on a subject I do not have information on...

Oh - I've just noticed that, from my last trip to see my dad, he's squirreled the Matrix: Revolutions DVD into the stuff I brought back, despite me telling him I hated the film. And he likes Sister Act 2!

Assuming that I don't remember any of the second film either, can you explain why Smith came back at all, after being "infected" by Neo and shattered into thousands of pieces? I don't recall that being covered.
 
Anderton
And the Neon is a way-emasculating car on this side of the ocean, and a piece of junk too. That's why Dodge/Chrysler stopped marketing it under the Neon name and started calling it something less femenine, the SX 2.0.
Neon is a way-emasculating car ? :rolleyes: Read the article. And the Neon is still a Neon here in Detroit.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=16&article_id=7871
Here is a quote from the Car and Driver article.
"Indeed, the Chrysler Group's Performance Vehicle Operations (PVO) has delivered a hot-rod compact sedan that's based on the Neon"
 
Famine
Assuming that I don't remember any of the second film either, can you explain why Smith came back at all, after being "infected" by Neo and shattered into thousands of pieces? I don't recall that being covered.[/color][/b]

Smith was already becoming his own man in part one, which you could see when he took out his earplugs to talk to Morpheus 'privately', expressing his distate for stinking mankind. Since we have never seen him work out cloning before he actually does it first before the camera, he could have already done it. But he can also be a program that hooks up with the matrix rather than move inside it physically, but not actually die - just losing his manifestation. I'm not sure which one in this case.
 
Famine
The thread was created on 3rd April this year. Assume that, seeing as I thought the film sucked, I haven't watched it since and, in the intervening 4 months, much of it has passed from my memory due to antipathy. I cannot respond on a subject I do not have information on...

Oh - I've just noticed that, from my last trip to see my dad, he's squirreled the Matrix: Revolutions DVD into the stuff I brought back, despite me telling him I hated the film. And he likes Sister Act 2!

Assuming that I don't remember any of the second film either, can you explain why Smith came back at all, after being "infected" by Neo and shattered into thousands of pieces? I don't recall that being covered.

In the second film, just before the "Burly Brawl" scene (where Neo fights hundreds of Smiths) Agent Smith explains what happened. He says that after he was defeated by Neo, he was supposed to be deleted since he had not fulfilled his purpose. But instead of going back to the source, he "chose to disobey" and stay in the Matrix. His reasoning for this is that he is not sure why it happened, but that he suspects some part of the Neo "program" was overwritten onto the Smith program, particularly a part which allows Neo the freedom of choice (which the Architect explains is necessary for the Matrix to function at all). Thus, Smith now has the ability to choose, something the machines did not plan for, and he is now able to do anything he wants. He quickly becomes more powerful than the machines.

I also think that because Neo does not obey the Architect and choose the logical door to complete the cycle once again, that Smith's power becomes unchecked as well. The Oracle gives some clues to this when she tells Neo that Smith is "his opposite, his negative, the result of the equation trying to balance itself out." Although this is a bit cryptic, which I know is something you hate about the film, I think it offers enough of an explanation for the viewer to form his/her own opinion. I actually think that not fully explaining things to us is more effective here than if we were given everything fully explained. That the Architect at the end of Reloaded speaks so strangely is a result of him being a machine and Neo being human, thus the communication between them can only be partially understood.

I would be happy to explain any other questions you might have; though I know it probably won't change your opinion of the movie much, maybe, in the words of the Merovingian, it will help you understand the why, the reason? Sorry if that sounded a little snarky, I am tired of bickering and would rather get into an educated discussion about this Trilogy, which despite what anyone thinks, has made an incredible impact on movie history and will never fade away.
 
GT3mich
Neon is a way-emasculating car ? :rolleyes: Read the article. And the Neon is still a Neon here in Detroit.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=16&article_id=7871
Here is a quote from the Car and Driver article.
"Indeed, the Chrysler Group's Performance Vehicle Operations (PVO) has delivered a hot-rod compact sedan that's based on the Neon"
I know you can modify it into a mean machine, but you gotta admit the car on its own is pretty flimsy. How about that "Expresso" version they came out with? And the Neons with the cheap frilly stick-on graphics down the sides are horrendous! I remember the Neon ads showing the car zipping around town and then at the end arriving head-on with its eye-like headlights, facing the viewer, then saying "Hi." Not a very racy feeling from the ads. What do you think?
 
Anderton
How about that "Expresso" version they came out with? And the Neons with the cheap frilly stick-on graphics down the sides are horrendous! I remember the Neon ads showing the car zipping around town and then at the end arriving head-on with its eye-like headlights, facing the viewer, then saying "Hi." Not a very racy feeling from the ads. What do you think?
I would agree that stuff is horrible. At least they had the forsite to produce the SRT-4.
 
I think the job was a waste of time. I'd be too scared to drive it anywhere. Bet it cost a bomb or he's one hell of an artist. Anyway top argument boys, it kept me amused for ages. 👍
 
Back