The most realistic racing game in PS2..

[homeforsummer]

I think until GRID the whole TOCA series (not just TRD2) has always veered towards the simulation side and certainly realistic racing, even if the physics have never quite been at the level of the GT series and a few others on the PS2. They've always simulated real series, in real cars, for the most part having real liveries.

I still think that for difficulty and close competition, one of the best games I ever played was TOCA Touring Cars 2 (on the PS1, not PS2), on the highest difficulty level, and with the "cheat" that allowed you to do full-length races. You had to overtake carefully, drive smoothly and also be damn quick to even have a hope of winning, but it was so rewarding when you did.

 

[Wolfe]

I think until GRID the whole TOCA series (not just TRD2) has always veered towards the simulation side and certainly realistic racing, even if the physics have never quite been at the level of the GT series and a few others on the PS2. They've always simulated real series, in real cars, for the most part having real liveries.

In my opinion, GRID is a clear evolution from the TRD series -- a rather realistic racing experience with unrealistic physics -- just with greatly exaggerated handling. The TRD series' vague simcade physics were far from bad, but I think they were neither convincing nor especially fun.

 

[Hun200kmh]

GRID an evolution of TRD ??? Only in two areas: graphics and damage ... graphics. Oh, and it has drifting

Physics: worse
Pits: gone
Qualifying: gone
Fuel consumption: gone
Tyre wear: gone

Tracks: the track list from GRID is a sad joke when compared to TRD3
Cars: same as tracks

GRID is the biggest dissapointment I had in video games .. ever. Bought it when it was released, did a few races ... and shelved it.

 

[TakeshiSkunk]

So I take it the general consensus is that TRD3 is a good, solid, fun game? It's pretty much the only big name racer I don't own for PS2, and since I got my DFGT I've been thinking about grabbing it.

 

[Wolfe]

GRID was literally the first Codemasters racing game I found fun enough to be worth buying. I thought the physics were a substantial upgrade from its predecessors -- just not in realism.

Furthermore, considering how "confused" the TRD series was in its tossed salad of sim and arcade elements, I don't really mind that pits, qualifying, fuel consumption, and tire wear were removed from the much more straightforward GRID. Though those features would have only added to the game's already impressive level of immersion.

 

[TakeshiSkunk]

GRID was literally the first Codemasters racing game I found fun enough to be worth buying. I thought the physics were a substantial upgrade from its predecessors -- just not in realism.

Furthermore, considering how "confused" the TRD series was in its tossed salad of sim and arcade elements, I don't really mind that pits, qualifying, fuel consumption, and tire wear were removed from the much more straightforward GRID. Though those features would have only added to the game's already impressive level of immersion.

See I was all set to pick up GRID for 360, loved the demo. But now that I have a nice wheel I feel it'd be foolish not to wait until I have a ps3 and grab it then

 

[Hun200kmh]

GRID was literally the first Codemasters racing game I found fun enough to be worth buying. I thought the physics were a substantial upgrade from its predecessors -- just not in realism.

Furthermore, considering how "confused" the TRD series was in its tossed salad of sim and arcade elements, I don't really mind that pits, qualifying, fuel consumption, and tire wear were removed from the much more straightforward GRID. Though those features would have only added to the game's already impressive level of immersion.

I guess you like games that are radical in their concept, be it arcade or sim.

I like games that have at least a portion of sim, and I never liked arcade games. In fact, the only one I EVER bought is GRID, and bought it by mistake, because it's called "Race Driver: Grid" (and the RD heritage, mixed with Le Mans with day and night, next gen, etc., made me think it should be a great game).

But, back to topic, I stand by what I wrote. No other game in the PS2 provided decent online racing better than TRD3. So, this game deserves to be considered among the best racing games for the PS2.

 

[homeforsummer]

GRID was literally the first Codemasters racing game I found fun enough to be worth buying. I thought the physics were a substantial upgrade from its predecessors -- just not in realism.

I've either played or owned every Codemasters rally and racing game since the original CMR1 and TOCA Touring Cars, and as far as I'm concerned, DIRT and GRID are the worst installments of both series so far. All the previous PSX and PS2 games usually varied subtley from one title to the next - TOCA became more realistic and had more depth in TOCA2, and then gained vastly more depth but took a step towards arcade with TOCA WTC, and then on the PS2 the handling and racing improved but they added an arcadey story line in TRD. The following two TRD titles improved on this first one with each installment. The same thing pretty much happened with the Colin McRae games, although if anything these got more realistic with each title.

Then, in my opinion, DIRT was spoiled by dodgy handling and a full-on arcade style of play as well as moving away from the WRC focus, and GRID was really spoiled by some of the most un-intuitive and floaty handling I've come across in a racing game, and gameplay that tries hard to recreate real series but crossed with something like Need For Speed, and for me it just doesn't work at all.

As I've mentioned before, GRID and DIRT are the first Codemasters racers that I've had no desire to buy whatsoever. I was a big fan of both series ever since 97/98 when they started - and now I'm not. Incidentally, I do enjoy arcade games (NFS, Ridge Racer, Auto Modellista, which I mentioned in another thread) but DIRT and GRID are a nasty, half-way mish-mash that don't sit happily in either the sim or arcade game camps.

Slightly more on topic, I do agree that the TRD games are good for some fun racing action on the PS2. TRD and TRD2 are probably dirt cheap by now too.

 

[Delphic Reason]

See I was all set to pick up GRID for 360, loved the demo. But now that I have a nice wheel I feel it'd be foolish not to wait until I have a ps3 and grab it then

I have a DFGT, and I have previously owned DIRT and GRID. Believe me when I tell you, you are not missing anything. Midnight Club LA made better use of the wheel peripheral. GRID was one of the most unintuitive wheel experiences I've had, outside of DIRT.

 

[Wolfe]

I guess you like games that are radical in their concept, be it arcade or sim.

I guess you could say that. I certainly don't enjoy a bland, predictable racing game, be it arcade or sim. I don't necessarily seek out the "outsiders," either.

GRID took some getting used to, physics included. I started out on the demo with a manual-transmission 320si with no aids and the interior view, and quickly hated the game (the disconnect between the driver's steering wheel motions and the car's reactions was dizzying). But after I learned how to approach it (automatic, ABS, exterior view -- arcade-style), I was powersliding everywhere with glee, and the content was there to capture my interest. I like drifting, I like practically every car in the game, I like the tracks, I like the sports-game-like seasonal career mode, and I really like that you can create your own team.

If you don't, that's just our different interests. 👍

But, back to topic, I stand by what I wrote. No other game in the PS2 provided decent online racing better than TRD3. So, this game deserves to be considered among the best racing games for the PS2.

I still don't think it's much of a sim in terms of physics, but it's definitely a fine game. I would recommend it to the average racer gamer.

I've either played or owned every Codemasters rally and racing game since the original CMR1 and TOCA Touring Cars...

I haven't. I never owned a PSX, either, and the PS2 and PS3 I have access to aren't mine. I have to remind myself not to refer to the TRD games as "the TOCA series."

...on the PS2 the handling and racing improved but they added an arcadey story line in TRD.

What's "arcadey" about wanting to add story-driven motivation to a banally predictable genre? I think it was a neat idea, but the characters' skin cancers and the awfully unlikable player character ruined it. Though personally, it didn't surprise me to see Codemasters botch the concept.

...if anything [the Colin McRae series] got more realistic with each title.

There was certainly improvement, but sorry, I think they're all floaty, unintuitive, point-and-pivot arcade games. There's definitely fun to be had with CMR04 and CMR2005, but only after you can get used to the strange way the cars handle. It's like the cars have rear wheel steering -- the tail end is always the first to move, and the cars swoop, arc, and slop through corners in visually jarring, unnatural ways.

GRID's cars are positively planted to the ground by comparison, and their drifting looks more authentic, exaggerated and unrealistic as it is.

As I've mentioned before, GRID and DIRT are the first Codemasters racers that I've had no desire to buy whatsoever. I was a big fan of both series ever since 97/98 when they started - and now I'm not.

I didn't like DiRT either. And I can understand how someone who's a fan of the TOCA series as sims would be disappointed in GRID. However, from my perspective, the TRD series were arcade games masquerading as sims, while GRID embraced its arcadeyness, to great effect.

 

[TakeshiSkunk]

I don't really understand why so many racing game fans are so horribly split between arcade and sim games. Most people I run across seem to like one and just hate the other. I've personally always loved both.

As much as I love the Gran Turismo series, LFS, and other sims, my all around favorite racing game will probably always be the original Daytona USA. Absolutely amazing track design, very tight and deep play mechanics that take a lot of work to get used to. It's the same reason I love Ridge Racer and Initial D.

I'm not sure I would agree with some of the games people in this thread have labeled as arcade racers. Sure Auto Modelista, GRID, and DiRT aren't extremely realistic, but the physics they employ still have a sim type feel to them. I associate a true arcade racer as a game that has somewhat unintuitive handling, such as the games I mentioned earlier. Sure you can get around the track on basic driving knowledge, but to really get good times you end up employing some very unique techniques that sometimes serve only to exploit the physics engine in place.

 

[Wolfe]

Daytona USA had very impressive handling for a 1994 arcade game. The drifting was more involved than the likes of Ridge Racer, and I think it foreshadowed the mechanics of OutRun 2, as the technique for both is similar. Of course, unlike OutRun 2, Daytona USA was enough of a sim to cause you to spin out or understeer into a wall if you didn't know what you were doing. It even had tire wear (enabled via cheat code), pit stops, and the visual damage all too many players are familiar with.

As for your distinction between arcade and sim racers, what you consider "arcade" I consider "hardcore arcade." To me, a game is "arcade" if the handling is both unrealistic and wholly unconvincing, "simcade" if it's unrealistic but convincing (too much grip, some things don't work right, but it feels like you're driving a car), and "sim" if it's both realistic and convincing. I also tend to use physics as the sole measure for this. Anything else is just features.

 

[JustAnotherBlur]

Enthusia is the best racing simulation (physics-wise) I have tried to date. And that list includes forza, gt3, gt4, toca 2 and 3, f1ce, grid, gt5p and now enthusia. Except for forza of course, I played all games on the ps2 or ps3.

I won't rehash the technical details on previous posts. My vote goes to Enthusia, and by some margin. If you don't have Enthusia, go find one. It will be worth it. It will be hard, too, because there are not many copies around anymore, and the game was from 2005. Fortunately, I live in an area where there were a couple of places that had used copies.

When I race, I try to race cleanly and lean on perfecting my cornering technique to chase down more powerful AI cars. I don't find satisfaction in winning because the AI inexplicably lifted (GT4, mid-field reverse, final corner, AI cars always lift on entry, so I also lift to avoid an 'unearned' pass on the straight).

And the reason I mentioned trying to race cleanly? Well, when I played Enthusia, I thought I won't face those dreaded black flags. Yet I did. So, being the obsessive-compulsive that we sim racers are, I persevered. After learning how it works, it was as if the game opened a new dimension of difficulty and enjoyability. I raise this because the game has been criticized because of the black flag. I think it is in fact much better because of it. There is no more of that "well, I am pretty sure I will win in XXXX laps, etc., because the AIs will go slow in some corners, and if I run out of time, I can always slightly bump them on the inside of the last turn." On other games, even if I wished to play fair, the game would not tell me I actually accidentally cut the last corner too much to make up the time, so I'd never know if I did 'play fair' and triumphed on my abilities alone.

With Enthusia, I know I can win (after some attempts anyway), but I am never sure I can win without a black flag against stronger cars. The no black flag rule also heightens the intensity of racing through the field. Nothing beats the helpless feeling of knowing the lead cars are escaping, and you can no longer afford to lose more time stuck behind a slow car, yet the next passing opportunity is still five corners away. And if you muck up that chance, the next one is perhaps one lap later. Thus, the pressure mounts every time you miss an opportunity to a pass on the few corners that offer those chances. Further, the black flag forces players to sharpen spatial and speed differential estimates, because side-to-side-trading-paint-late-braking-squeeze-me banzai moves no longer work. Primarily because of these, one is forced to learn patient and efficient race craft. And that's not a bad thing in any sim racers' book....

I won't say more on the physics, besides saying the rear-end physics is amazing. The front end is also amazing, but coming from countless hours on GT4, it is the rear end that converted me over. That said, if you are a new transplant to Enthusia, and find the driving physics and feedback 'wrong', 'different' or 'weird', do consider the possibility that after playing other games, perhaps it only feels 'wrong' because the physics is new. Hang in there.... It will be fun once you figure out the cars respond the way (I think) they should.

(Digression: I am surprised when others say they get a black flag if bumped by an AI from behind. I get bumped sometimes on the hairpins on Tsukuba, but I don't get blackflagged. I also sometimes accidentally side-bump opposing cars, and that does not seem to cause a black flag either as long as they are more than half a car behind me.)

 

[homeforsummer]

I started out on the demo with a manual-transmission 320si with no aids and the interior view, and quickly hated the game (the disconnect between the driver's steering wheel motions and the car's reactions was dizzying).

Incidentally, this is exactly how I started with GRID too, but I don't have any desire to go back to it. To me the game is just too far removed from what I like in Codemasters racers, and in particular, touring-car based games.

I still don't think it's much of a sim in terms of physics, but it's definitely a fine game. I would recommend it to the average racer gamer.

Agreed, though I prefer the physics immesurably to those of GRID.

What's "arcadey" about wanting to add story-driven motivation to a banally predictable genre? I think it was a neat idea, but the characters' skin cancers and the awfully unlikable player character ruined it. Though personally, it didn't surprise me to see Codemasters botch the concept.

I can't remember the last time I played a sim with a "story line". On the other hand, I've played countless arcade, RPG, FPS etc games with a story line. A story in a racing game, to me, feels more arcade-game like. I'm not saying it was a bad thing, though as you mentioned it wasn't particularly well excecuted. TRD2 was a big step forward from TRD though.

There was certainly improvement, but sorry, I think they're all floaty, unintuitive, point-and-pivot arcade games.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Floaty perhaps - the only two CMR games I still own are the original PSX version and CMR04 on the PS2, and though the PS2 version is more incisive, immersive and difficult, they both exhibit the same bouncy feeling when negotiating corners, and certainly aren't as "darty" as you'd expect a real rally car to feel. I disagree that they feel unintuitive though. Even with the D-pad, the original CMR is very easy to pick up and play and the cars have very predictable reactions to your inputs, which is something that's continued throughout the series in my view.

There's definitely fun to be had with CMR04 and CMR2005, but only after you can get used to the strange way the cars handle. It's like the cars have rear wheel steering -- the tail end is always the first to move, and the cars swoop, arc, and slop through corners in visually jarring, unnatural ways.

I know what you mean, but I find you get used to it pretty quickly and forget about it soon. Plus, the WRC cars aren't nearly as affected by this as the FWD cars, I find.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I had a funny experience now. I was about to do a summary about my favourite racing PS2 games, and when I was writing it I thought "hmmm, I think I have done this already, somewhere in these forums"

So, I searched ... and it was in this same thread

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3104992&postcount=13


So:
1 - I have nothing to add to what I wrote

2 - Age is taking its toll on me, mainly in the "memory" department


PS - JustAnotherBlur, great post, I fully agree

 

[Wolfe]

Incidentally, this is exactly how I started with GRID too, but I don't have any desire to go back to it.

I kept playing and found the arcade game I thought TRD always should have been; you played it and found the arcade game you hoped TOCA would never become. Different frokes for different stolks. 👍 Though I can't say I'm glad GRID "replaced" one of your favorite franchises.

I disagree that [the CMR games] feel unintuitive. Even with the D-pad, the original CMR is very easy to pick up and play and the cars have very predictable reactions to your inputs, which is something that's continued throughout the series in my view.

The series is not terribly unintuitive, but as you admitted, it takes getting used to, even if it's not a big deal. CMR04 and CMR2005 are especially easy to have fun with, as I said before, but I never feel like I'm completely in control. To me, the handling just does not feel solid by any means. But it's playable.



@Hun200kmh:

 

[Cougar23]

GT4 all the way.

 

[Reevzy]

Richard Burns Rally for sure, if you don't know what your doing it'll
slap you in the face with a slimy mackerel.
After doing the Mineshaft stage in Australia (without crashing), your arms are
dead from a vicious steering wheel and your mind is drained of all energy
from concentrating so hard, brilliant game.

 

[zazaza]

For me, Richard Burns Rally is the most realistic.

 

[Daniel]

"most realistic racing game"

Then, I'll say what are my all time favourite PS2 driving/racing games:

- GT (3, Concept and 4)
- Enthusia
- Toca Race Driver 3
- Le Mans 24 Hours





Toca Race Driver 3 is very different from GT and Enthusia. Its physics are more arcadey, its graphics and sound are just not at the same level. But ... the AI really fights you (sometimes a bit too much) you get up to 20 car grids, and loads of real life awesome tracks, all missing from GT and EPR, from Bathurst to Spa, from Phillip Island to Indianapolis, from Brno to Hockenheim, and so on ... ( did I say Zandvoort and Silverstone? ).

And, it's the only of these games where you can play online, with online features unrivaled so far, even in the PS3. So, you get all that against human players (or a mix of humans and AI to fill in the blanks in the grid, as you wish).

I have raced many, many hours/nights, week after week, month after month, of TRD3 online, made a few friends there and I have to say that no other PS2 game could keep me busy racing for such a long period.

So, TRD3, as far as "realistic racing" is concerned, is also a good title contender, inspite the poor physics, graphics and sound. It wins over GT and Enthusia, by a long shot, in the tracks department and the grids size, and it's better than GT in the AI department (not difficult), maybe on par with EPR here. Being the only of these games that is playable online gives TRD3 an enormous advantage, but only if you want to play online, of course.

So I take it the general consensus is that TRD3 is a good, solid, fun game? It's pretty much the only big name racer I don't own for PS2, and since I got my DFGT I've been thinking about grabbing it.

I second both those opinions... TRC3/V8 Supercars 3/DTM Race Driver 3 is the best racing game... ever. It's "The Real Racing Simulator". GT4 is a driving simulator, and I've never tried Enthusia.

and Takeshi... GET IT, it's a very fun game, and it can get very challenging!!

"Put Simply, V8 Supercars 3 pushes the boundaries of simulation to places that even Gran Turismo 4 didn't go." 10/10

Dont get GRID... it's like PROSTREET. Get V8 Supercars... 3.

 

[chim nodensetsu]

Inorder from my experience

TXRD2
Enthusia
TXR3

GT4 sucked. try to do donuts, or anything close to realistic drifting. drive with worst rear tires by one grade, detect changes to elevations, and see how realistic it is.

TXR3 felt better and it's an arcade game. Not to mention, engine heat, better tire wear, and much better understeer/oversteer response.