The most recalled cars

[Scaff]

no

I'm sorry but every recall (mandatory or vollentary) is precautionary, unless you are saying that a method exists of saying exactly which components on which car will fail, rather than may fail.

Toyota are the primark of the automotive world. Dull, boring and cheap. Manufacturers of cheap reliable cars shouldnt be making the second highest profit per vehicle at all.

Why?

Thats has to rank as one of the single daftest things I have every heard. Companies that make cheap, reliable products don't deserve to make a profit?

Or are you saying that its not possiable, In which case I would say that you still have a hell of a lot to learn about the industry.

Im not trying to. All im saying is that theyre current ways are going against theyre past reputation, of which you buy a toyota drive it for a 100,000 miles without a servicing and any trouble or things falling off.

What 'current ways'?

You see you have now started a number of threads that have either directly or in a thinly veiled form cast serious doubts or rubbished Toyota's reliability.

Toyota have never claimed to built cars with 100,000 miles service intervals or that they make cars that will always cover that distamce without failing. Independent industry analysis is the source of figures regarding Toyota's reliability along with the actual consumers themselves.

Do Toyota use this in marketing, of course they do, any manufacturer would.

Scaff

 

[Famine]

I mean if you want to play with figures, Vauxhall registered 369,850 cars in the UK in 2005 (source GM financial statement March 2006), yet in March of this year one recall alone affected 217,374 vehicles (source VOSA). Thats the equivilent of 59% of all Vauhalls sold in 2005 (which makes Toyota 10% seem rather good now doesn't it).

Especially against the 100% recall of an entire product line by Audi.

Could you dig out that exploding BINI issue - you seem to have the racing line on recalls right now I can't recall (ha ha... ) how many cars it affected.


Honda and Mazda are still top of the Brit tree with 9.7 days per 100 vehicles per year (or a day for just over every 10th car - or each car once in just over ten years) and 10.6 days per 100 vehicles per year off the road outside of service schedule respectively.

 

[Scaff]

Especially against the 100% recall of an entire product line by Audi.

Could you dig out that exploding BINI issue - you seem to have the racing line on recalls right now I can't recall (ha ha... ) how many cars it affected.


Honda and Mazda are still top of the Brit tree with 9.7 days per 100 vehicles per year (or a day for just over every 10th car - or each car once in just over ten years) and 10.6 days per 100 vehicles per year off the road outside of service schedule respectively.

Here you go

Mini Fuel filler recall

Reference : R/2001/119
Manufacturer Ref :
Make: BMW
Model : Mini One/Cooper
Launch Date : 05/09/2001
Numbers Involved : 1600
Build Start Date :
Build End Date : 27/08/2001
Details
Concern : STATIC DISCHARGE FIRE RISK DURING REFUELING.
Description : When filling the fuel tank it is possible in extreme circumstances for static electricity to accumulate in the fuel filler tube. Should this occur a spark may jump to the vehicle body. This could ignite fuel vapour in the area causing a brief flash.
Remedial Action : Recall affected vehicles and fit a modified fuel filler pipe which will incorporate an additional earth lead which will prevent the build up of static electricity.
Vehicle Id : Various


1,600, which was a fair chunk of the registered cars at the time.


But I find this one more fun (and did not reach the papers).

Reference : R/2002/166
Manufacturer Ref :
Make: BMW
Model : Mini One, Mini Cooper and Mini Cooper S
Launch Date : 02/12/2002
Numbers Involved : 26381
Build Start Date :
Build End Date :
Details
Concern : HANDBRAKE MAY SELF RELEASE
Description : Depending on the driver's seat position, the locking mechanism of the handbrake lever may fail due to the angle that the lever is operated. This may cause the brake to release, even when the car is left unattended
Remedial Action : Fit a new, improved design, handbrake assembly.
Vehicle Id :


26,381 MINIs making a break for it.


Scaff

 

[Poverty]

Especially against the 100% recall of an entire product line by Audi.

One model, vs a whole manufacturers models, so no it doesnt because its happen to 99% of manufacturers

 

[Danny]

Bentley
Reference : R/2006/024
Manufacturer Ref : RE06/01
Make: BENTLEY MOTOR CARS
Model : ARNARGE T, R AND RL
Launch Date : 01/02/2006
Numbers Involved : 42
Build Start Date : 01/01/2004
Build End Date : 31/05/2005
Details
Concern : WHEEL FIXING BOLTS MAY LOOSEN
Description : Due to the possibility of the road wheels having an incorrect finish, the potential exists for the wheel fixing bolts to loosen. This defect could lead to the road wheel becoming detached from the hub.
Remedial Action : Affected vehicles will have all the road wheels, including the spare (if it is a full size wheel) and all the wheel fixing bolts replaced
Vehicle Id :

So we have here Bentley's with wheels that may fall off, BMW's with suspension mounting that could fail and a range of Vauxhall's catching fire, failing to restrain people and with airbags going off by themselves.


I could honestly go on for days with this.

^Me, at you.

 

[McLaren]

Toyota are the primark of the automotive world. Dull, boring and cheap. Manufacturers of cheap reliable cars shouldnt be making the second highest profit per vehicle at all.

I think I already covered the reason to why they are, quote, "Dull, boring, and cheap" in which case, boring and dull is an opinion and should not be regarded to as fact.

And who really cares if the cars are cheap? As long as they get us from Point A to Point B for couple thousand miles without a check up (excluding user-caused damage), that should be enough.

If a Prius can get me 50 miles per gallon for just $21,000, hell, sounds like a good deal to me for what I'll save on near $3 gas in the states.

 

[Poverty]

If a Prius can get me 50 miles per gallon for just $21,000, hell, sounds like a good deal to me for what I'll save on near $3 gas in the states.

I could get better milage from a diesel, for alot less than a prius in the UK

 

[Danny]

...such as the Citroen HDi units, which for some reason give better MPG than identical Peugeot and Ford engines.

If all these cars are so unsafe, people should just walk...

 

[McLaren]

I could get better milage from a diesel, for alot less than a prius in the UK

In the UK, the Toyota Prius sells for £17,780.00.
After a money converter....
Oh, look at that, it's $22,643, just $1,000 more than the US model.

How many diesels are in the UK less than £17,780.00 new?

 

[Poverty]

probably over 60, if you count the different diesel engines for each car model, and thats new, not used.

 

[Scaff]

How many diesels are in the UK less than £17,780.00 new?

A lot


Scaff

 

[Famine]

One model, vs a whole manufacturers models, so no it doesnt because its happen to 99% of manufacturers

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here, but...

Toyota - and other manufacturers - make occasional recalls because a batch of cars have faults due to a faulty batch of parts. They know which was the first chassis number to receive the batch and they know which was the last, so they recall a whole range. This is due to faults in manufacturing of parts, which may occur due to improper tolerances, errors in machine settings, "it's my first day", incorrect storage of raw materials or any number of other flaws. This kind of thing can be fixed with proper procedural checks and random batch-testing of parts (though it's expensive).

To have to recall every single example in an entire car line, on the other hand - especially one supposed to be the sporting flagship of your range - due to a basic design flaw which would make it take off at speed smacks of arrogance and complacency. Did Audi never bother testing the vehicle at the speeds of which it was capable?


All of these colossal and obviously disastrous recalls aside, Toyota are still 3rd, as of 2005, in the reliability survey with 12.9 out-of-schedule repair claims per 100 cars per year (Honda top on 9.9 and Mazda second with 10.7).

The most reliable VAG product is Skoda on 25.2 - that's just shy of twice as many visits to the garage as a Toyota - followed by Seat on 27.6. Yep, the cheap'n'cheerful section of VAG are the most reliable. Hmm. VW are next on 30.1 and... *flicks*

*flicks*

*flicks*

Oooh, the prestige brand at VAG are on 41.2 - more than three times as many trips per year as those pesky, unreliable, corner-cutting Toyotas. Oddly, the VAG family is completely upside-down, with the reliability dropping almost linearly with the marque price (you could probably say the same about Toyota though - Lexus are 5th with 15.1).



All this aside... product recalls occur when the manufacturer identifies a fault and decides, as a precaution, to call in potentially affected ranges and fix the fault at their own cost. It shouldn't necessarily be taken as a sign of unreliability.

 

[Poverty]

To have to recall every single example in an entire car line, on the other hand - especially one supposed to be the sporting flagship of your range - due to a basic design flaw which would make it take off at speed smacks of arrogance and complacency. Did Audi never bother testing the vehicle at the speeds of which it was capable?

Ofcourse they did, but the professional drivers must have never thought of it to be a problem.


How many lexus' are on our roads?
Whats the demographic of the average lexus driver?

Important factors when it comes to reliability.

 

[Scaff]

Ofcourse they did, but the professional drivers must have never thought of it to be a problem.

Well thats a bit concerning, as its part of the job they do.

How many lexus' are on our roads?
Whats the demographic of the average lexus driver?

Important factors when it comes to reliability.

Care to explain exactly why?

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

say the average lexus owner is 60. They are more likely to not put alot of miles on the car, service it when the manufacturer suggests, take the car to dealers as soon as there are any suspected problems and generally drive like old people do.

Oh and ive never seen a lexus on a track day, other than people on the internet with theyre IS.

PS. Looking on autotrader my assumptions on mileage seem to be correct. The only IS, with over 100k miles were built between 1999 and 2001 and there were only 6 of them. There are 4 pages worth of IS' on sale with 20k miles though, and most of them are several years old.

Obviously these resulkt were from cars found 40 miles from my location.

 

[Scaff]

say the average lexus owner is 60. They are more likely to not put alot of miles on the car, service it when the manufacturer suggests, take the car to dealers as soon as there are any suspected problems and generally drive like old people do.

Oh and ive never seen a lexus on a track day, other than people on the internet with theyre IS.

PS. Looking on autotrader my assumptions on mileage seem to be correct. The only IS, with over 100k miles were built between 1999 and 2001 and there were only 6 of them. There are 4 pages worth of IS' on sale with 20k miles though, and most of them are several years old.

Obviously these resulkt were from cars found 40 miles from my location.

You are obviously not aware that lower mileage vehicle tend to experience more wear and tear than higher milage vehicles.

Low mileage cars are subjected to mainly town driving with a lot of stop/start work, which puts huge strain on the tyres, brakes, gearbox, clutch,etc.

Additionally lower mileage cars tend to run for short periods of time, very often meaning they do not get up to operating temperature, this can lead to condensation in exhaust systems (as the system does not get hot enough to burn it off) and increased engine wear as the oil does not get up to temp before the car is switch off.

High mileage cars are mainly run on duel carridgeways and motorways, at a steady engine load, with much less gearbox and clutch use. Brake use is also reduced quite dramatically, and the engine, exhaust, etc are all run at descent temps to allow the fluids to do the job they need.

As far as servicing goes, it would take a special kind of fool to buy a brand new car and not have it serviced regularly, besides 50% of the UK market is fleet cars, which means the driver doesn't even pay for the servicing, of the rest it is often a condition of PCP finance schemes that the service schedule is maintained.

So in short these low mileage Lexus you refer to (and all the boring old folk in Corolla's and Yaris) are subjecting the cars to a far more brutal pattern of abuse than high mileage cars.

Yet these cars still maintain a strong track record for reliability.

I also find the term 'drive like old people do' a clear indicator of a lack of understanding in this area, my dad is in his 60's currently drives a VR-4 (along with the two Land Rovers) and I'm quite sure could give a far few people a run for thier money behind the wheel.

Only the foolish judge a driver by age, sex, dress, etc. I find it a much better bet to judge a driver by their driving.



Scaff

 

[Poverty]

Im not questioning old peoples driving capability, but lexus' are geared for comfort, and for all we know most lexus owners will only use theyre cars for long journeys, and dont rquire theyre car for the shops, preffering to walk etc.

 

[Scaff]

Im not questioning old peoples driving capability, but lexus' are geared for comfort, and for all we know most lexus owners will only use theyre cars for long journeys, and dont rquire theyre car for the shops, preffering to walk etc.

I'd love to see the exact research you used to obtain this from, because right now this seems to me like you are clutching at straws here.

Besides a quick Autotrader search for my area has a good number of high mileage IS models for sale, the first ten were all between 50 and 92 thousand miles (which tends to indicate fleet cars as most as disposed of between 75 and 100k). By limiting an Autotrader search to around London you are missing out on a lot of fleet disposals, normally done by the larger car supermarkets outside of London.

I also am at a loss as to exactly what you are trying to say here.


To be clear are you trying to imply that Toyota and Lexus models are more reliable than VAG group products because of the nature of the drivers?


Scaff

 

[Poverty]

something along those lines yes, but I was/am clutching at straws there

Im just gonna stiop whilst im ahead.

Toyota relaibility>>>>VAG reliability.

Lets see how things patter out in a couple years.

 

[Scaff]

Lets see how things patter out in a couple years.

Now thats the interesting part, as Toyota are most certainly aiming for the number 1 manufacturer spot, which they quite openly admit.

Now they say its a long term goal, which is all well and good, if they stick to a long term plan it should be fairly safe.

If however they try and rush it (and something link a GM & Renault/Nissan link could do just that) then it will be far more difficult to achieve.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Famine]

And when Audi finally recall all cars with their version of the DSG 'box, which has been reported seizing in several instances with less than 10,000 miles on it...