The Nürburgring Foxhole vs. Toyota GT 86

[Nielsen]

Can somone please explain why the Toyota GT 86 unlike other cars in GT5 is so difficult to drive through the Foxhole on the Nürburgring when equipped with comfort soft tyres? It can demonstrate sudden and nearly unpredictable oversteer while other cars drive through this beforementioned hilly bend without major drama. I'm well aware that cars and tyres have different driving characteristics but the above mentioned example is so extreme and prominent that I must ask whether this car has a physics flaw in GT5? However, it's a different story with sports tyres as these obviously provide better grip. The downgrade to comfort soft just seems to make this car tricky instead of fun.

 

[shirakawaa]

Last time I checked, the spring ratio for rear stock suspensions in this car is very low, much lower than the front, even though this is a car which is supposed to be very balanced. Could this be the reason of handling unpredictability in certain situations?

 

[aadil717]

Last time I checked, the spring ratio for rear stock suspensions in this car is very low, much lower than the front, even though this is a car which is supposed to be very balanced. Could this be the reason of handling unpredictability in certain situations?

Isn't this because of the weight distribution? I feel the car is rather balanced but I've not taken it round the Nurburgring that often to remember.

 

[QB1o]

I can't tell you why the car wipes out there, but I can confirm that it does spin like crazy here if you keep the accelerator in or if you lift off at the trough of the hill.

I went to the tuning forum and used the Praiano tune on mine, and now it goes through the foxhole with no trouble at all.

 

[generationlost]

online or offline?

I've had no troubles driving my gt 86 on any section of the nurburgring offline on comfort softs. I did do some slight adjustments to the suspension though, but nothing else was changed or modified.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Can somone please explain why the Toyota GT 86 unlike other cars in GT5 is so difficult to drive through the Foxhole on the Nürburgring when equipped with comfort soft tyres? It can demonstrate sudden and nearly unpredictable oversteer while other cars drive through this beforementioned hilly bend without major drama. I'm well aware that cars and tyres have different driving characteristics but the above mentioned example is so extreme and prominent that I must ask whether this car has a physics flaw in GT5? However, it's a different story with sports tyres as these obviously provide better grip. The downgrade to comfort soft just seems to make this car tricky instead of fun.

The 86 is designed with built-in understeer... until the throttle is applied, then it's almost snap oversteer.

Apply the throttle after the turn, not through it.

Isn't this because of the weight distribution? I feel the car is rather balanced but I've not taken it round the Nurburgring that often to remember.

This is part of the reason, yes. Static, it's 53/47. Under throttle, the car is more like 50/50, but that throttle has to be continuous. When the brakes are applies, it's more like 60/40.

 

[Supermelon]

I find the car is totally fine when driven in offline. Once it goes online, the rear tends to snap oversteer with little warning.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I can't tell you why the car wipes out there, but I can confirm that it does spin like crazy here if you keep the accelerator in or if you lift off at the trough of the hill.

I went to the tuning forum and used the Praiano tune on mine, and now it goes through the foxhole with no trouble at all.

That says it all...

 

[phil_75]

Same happens at eau rouge SPA!

The car just spins out!

It has same suspension settings as the other concept 86's but they don't do it!

 

[McClarenDesign]

Same happens at eau rouge SPA!

The car just spins out!

It has same suspension settings as the other concept 86's but they don't do it!

Same settings does not equal the same suspension. Obviously, something has changed from the concept.

Your spins can be fixed with proper throttle application and timing.

Cars don't spin themselves without a reason.

 

[phil_75]

Same settings does not equal the same suspension. Obviously, something has changed from the concept.

Your spins can be fixed with proper throttle application and timing.

Cars don't spin themselves without a reason.

Try it!

 

[McClarenDesign]

Try it!

I do. Almost daily. I love the 86, and mostly play with one bone stock.

Don't overload your tires. Control the weight distribution and even out the traction.

It's not rocket science.

 

[phil_75]

Its just strange how it's the only car that does this.

And judging by the exact same suspension settings between this and the concept I would say its virtually guaranteed that it is the exact same platform with no differences!

 

[snobord99]

Is this a modified 86 we're talking about? After seeing this thread, I tried it in a stock 86 and had ZERO problems full throttling it through this section. I mean, not even a little squirrely.

 

[1241Penguin]

From GT5 experience, the 86 is one of the most well balanced and grippy cars ever. There should be no trouble at all going through the "Foxhole" (hopefully I'm thinking of the same corner as you) at all. The car's underpowered engine should help stop your car spinning.

 

[phil_75]

Try it online, and at eau rouge it just swaps ends - fast!

 

[Nielsen]

online or offline?

I've had no troubles driving my gt 86 on any section of the nurburgring offline on comfort softs. I did do some slight adjustments to the suspension though, but nothing else was changed or modified.

Tested it offline and the problem I described above actually is non existant! Thanks for mentioning this.

I find the car is totally fine when driven in offline. Once it goes online, the rear tends to snap oversteer with little warning.

Exactly, online the car is much more likely to spin. Try it out guys, stock setup with comfort soft tyres. The Foxhole on the Nürburgring is a great example. I Haven't tested it through Eau Rouge at Spa yet but I can easily imagine it's the same.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Try it online, and at eau rouge it just swaps ends - fast!

The car was designed to understeer under braking, and oversteer under acceleration.

If you know how to manage your tires and available grip, it won't. Ever.

Exactly, online the car is much more likely to spin. Try it out guys, stock setup with comfort soft tyres. The Foxhole on the Nürburgring is a great example. I Haven't tested it through Eau Rouge at Spa yet but I can easily imagine it's the same.

There is a discrepency between online vs. offline physics. Know-it-alls will try to rationalize it away. Doers will simply drive around it.

Your choice.

This isn't meant as condescending or insulting. My point is: what you manifest is before you. You control your environment. When you fail to do so, you must react to your enviroment. To react is to begin already behind. Don't get behind.

Induce. Not react.

 

[Nielsen]

The car was designed to understeer under braking, and oversteer under acceleration.

If you know how to manage your tires and available grip, it won't. Ever.

Well, the huge difference in the handling of this car between offline or offline hints that it goes deeper than what you are suggesting. The difference between offline and online physics has been known for a while but it seems that this car takes the difference to extremes.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Well, the huge difference in the handling of this car between offline or offline hints that it goes deeper than what you are suggesting. The difference between offline and online physics has been known for a while but it seems that this car takes the difference to extremes.

And, indeed, I will gladly be proven wrong. Should PD include a correction to this car, track, etc., I'll stand corrected and eat humble pie with a smile on my face.

The philosophy remains intact. The principles are sound.

And I can't replicate what you describe without knowlingly overextending limits.

 

[Furinkazen]

By default the cars suspension is 6.0 2.0

If you buy fully customisable suspension then you notice at stock levels the spring rates are 10 for the front, yet only 3.5 for the back. No wonder it spins out...

 

[phil_75]

Well, it looks like PD did their magic again!

It astounds me how they can get the feel of so many cars right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNUL9eQO5Q0&feature=g-all-u

listen to what he says at the end (around 4.50+) about the handling, especially the rear!

 

[JohnyPiston]

This isn't meant as condescending or insulting. My point is: what you manifest is before you. You control your environment. When you fail to do so, you must react to your enviroment. To react is to begin already behind. Don't get behind.

Induce. Not react.

Motivational quote of the week! Applies to more than just racing and GT5 ...and very well put! Who needs motivational and philosophy books? Get PS3, GT5, join gtplanet and you are sorted. 👍