The New Direction of Gran Turismo

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by AJFast12, Jul 8, 2017.

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Do you like the new change in the GT Franchise?

  1. Yes, I welcome change to the GT Franchise

    47.4%
  2. No, They should keep the ongoing formula.

    34.9%
  3. It doesnt really matter, i only play to race.

    17.7%
  1. fredyellowone

    fredyellowone

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    Hi everyone! Long time no see!

    IMO, Gran Turismo Sport is the exact opposite of what I'm looking in a Gran Turismo game. I'm not that much into online racing, but I'm a lot into buying that "everyday car", grinding my way through the single player events, upgrading my car here and there just to participate in higher races. Kaz did it right with GT1, 2, 3. So right that the franchise got to an almost legend status. Then, in 4, it was easy to do 1000 times in a row the same event to win a Cadillac Cien at 300 000 cr a piece. GT, by then, became more about collecting cars than griding your way through various races. After that, everything went downhill. 5 was a mess with never released features, unkept promises, broken gameplay, and jack-of-all-trades master of none video game. 6 was a cash grab attempt. A copycat of 5 minus features and plus tweaks to some menus. And here we are. Sport. Mostly online. No real single player. Only race cars. Read that well. The new Sport is the exact opposite of what made the series famous. Trying to do what others already do way too well. (IR. AC. PC)
    Bring back a full simulation game where I will be able to try a 2017 Buick Regal turbo vs the new Nissan Altima, and I will be happy. But it will not happen, sadly. And it will be that way as long as KAZ stay where he is.
     
  2. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    800+ low res, copy/pasted previous generations cars, broken ride height, broken camber, broken aero, the worst sound and the worst AI in all of sim racing would like to say hello from the PS3 era.
    Indeed
     
  3. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    Oh god just stop already.
     
  4. JayRS200

    JayRS200

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    All true though.
     
  5. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Add it to the list.


    So whats the ratio between road legal production cars and non road legal cars and how does it stand up against AC?

    Opinion presented as fact, personally I found both GT5 and GT6 to be very run of the mill.

    Nor does it address the question I posed.


    Which is great but unless you work for PD you don't know what will or will not be in the final version, and as such you can't base a factual statement on something that might happen.


    I understand it perfectly, to argue that you need to be able to smash a window with a hammer in the context of a sim is an argument to the absurd, its a logical fallacy.

    Doesn't mean they are simulated either and in particular dynamic tyre pressures, which is what it would need to be to even draw even with the competition.

    Its against the AUP to make knowingly missleading and inaccurate claims. You have repeatedly done so and they have been quoted back at you.

    Oh look you did it in the very next sentance.

    You get one more opportunity to do this,

    You said "It is a well-known fact that Milestone creates products that are trash", SLRE is a Milestone product, so support your factual claim.

    I do expect an answer on this, and you can include the Dirt Rally in your explanation as well. Remember only facts.


    Civic Type-R, JCW Mini, TT RS, Clio, Megane, Golf GTi, Evora, A45, 370Z, 4C and RS6 off the top of my head. I've passenger'd in more than that, which is enough to know the tactile feedback.

    I've worked in the motor industry for 20 odd years, you get to try a lot of cars on the road and track, its a perk of the job.


    Citation required.


    Really. You get to speak for all of the staff?

    Odd because you certainly don't speak for me, nor do you get to define 'best' in this case.


    Which ones?

    Odd as we were talking about Assetto Corsa?

    Tell me which titles do you allow on your list of those that are not "designed for people who want to escape from reality"?

    Oh and its an aside, but the GT series (and all racing titles sim or not) is very much "designed for people who want to escape from reality", or did you really think you were racing a moon buggy in GT6?

    You don't get to tell members what to do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  6. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    :lol:

    I get jokes.
     
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  7. fikridroid

    fikridroid

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    GTS could pave a solid groundwork for a fully-featured GT, since we've seen so much improvement compared to their predecessors (sans pared down amount of content)
     
  8. skazz

    skazz

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    2,431
    I understand that, but in the context of an industry where competitors release fully featured sequels in 2-3 years (Forza, pCARS) it still bears repeating that a 4 year wait for the groundwork for a future fully-featured game is pretty.... unique.....
     
  9. SpectralGas

    SpectralGas

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    51
    How sad is it...a game that started as a kick starter, is able to put out full fledged , content packed sequels in 2-3 years. This is year 4 and we are getting a gutted GT aimed at eSports....yikes.
     
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  10. AKps3

    AKps3

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    Have fun with the kick starter game
     
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  11. SpectralGas

    SpectralGas

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    I can get both if I want...nice **** post though.
     
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  12. skazz

    skazz

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    To correct any misunderstandings: pCARS wasn't ever part of kickstarter, but it was crowdfunded via SMS' own system (World of Mass Development, WMD) basically in the same manner as kickstarter.

    And it turned out pretty good. Not perfect, but it gave me considerably more hours of enjoyment than GT6 personally.
     
  13. fikridroid

    fikridroid

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    Just my assumption tho, most likely the Kaz's way of thinking
    Either end up as a sequel with bells and whistles of classic GT title but running off a GTS engine or GTS with proper post-release support like continuous DLC, bug fixes and feature updates, we don't know yet
     
  14. Greek

    Greek (Banned)

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    93
    All those things are "broken" even in the latest version of GT6?

    No.

    Add this to your list.

    Grab a pencil and a sheet of paper, and do the math. I am not your personal mathematician.

    Only in your imagination.

    Do not tell me your opinion. I do not care about your opinions. I care about facts only. Prove that GT5 and GT6 are run-of-the-mill products.

    Read the list, again. I will answer new questions only.

    Mr. Yamauchi has spoken about the development stages. Now they are in the "Refinement" stage. What does this mean? It means that the BD-ROM release version, will be better. Watch the newest GTS videos.

    It is obvious that you never owned a software company, that you are not a software engineer, and that you know very little about PD.

    No, you do not. Most of the time you perfectly misunderstand things. It is about the nonsense that many people post here.

    If the user, in PCARS2 for example, will be able to open and close the driver's door, while the vehicle is driven, and in GTS it is not possible to do that, would that mean that GTS is an inferior driving simulator?

    Now, about the tire pressure thing. Yes, it will be a bit disappointing if we cannot adjust tire pressures.

    We will see.

    Are you accusing me of being a liar and of being dishonest because you do not like the answers?

    I do not care if you like the truth or not. The list is the evidence. Look at it, again.

    You are the one who claimed that SLRE is an exception. You must provide evidence for that.

    It is a well-known fact that humans need oxygen to survive. Do you want evidence for that also?

    I will tell you a few more facts. You are an opinion-giver and a conclusion-jumper, like most others here. You are not a WRC driver and you will never become one, you never owned a rally car, and you have never driven a rally car as fast as a WRC driver in the same places where WRC rallies take place.

    Now, instead of threatening me and trying to pick a fight with me, how about doing something that will benefit everyone? If you really know better than everyone else here, you will update this comparison article. You must cite your sources, you must write footnotes, and you must conduct original research.

    We will see how intelligent and knowledgeable you really are.

    What job?

    I checked your YouTube channel, and I saw that you have uploaded game and driving simulator videos only. If you worked for almost two decades in the "motor industry", then you must have at least one video of you driving, very fast, a very expensive car, in reality.

    No. There is no need to quote the same things a million times. Go back, and read those posts, again. What was your intention? To state the obvious? Perhaps you were imagining that you are Johnnypenso when you were typing that reply. So?

    Did I tell you that I am the staff's representative and that I speak for them? No, I did not. I told you what I inferred from your words.

    If you tell me that, GT4 for example, is the best GT that has been released so far, that means that you do not care about everything being simulated as faithfully as possible. It might be the best for you because it has more cars, more tracks, or specific tracks, et cetera.

    Choosing GT4 over GTS means that you care about other things the most.

    The newest GT release is always better, in every way, as a driving simulator, than all the previous GT releases.

    All of his decisions.

    We are talking about the best simulators. X-Plane is one of those products.

    The Forza Horizon series is disqualified too.

    The "moon buggy" is not a production vehicle. I am interested in production vehicles only.

    The GT series is for everyone.

    You do not get to encourage members to annoy and provoke other members. Tornado attempted to annoy and provoke me. He failed, spectacularly.

    You are a moderator that violated the AUP repeatedly, and you accused, falsely, a member of violating the AUP, repeatedly.

    Get a grip on yourself, and multiply it.
     
  15. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim

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    Don't you just love it when someone is so pathetically emotionally attached to one gaming franchise that they lose all sense of what is normal and completely show themselves up in defence of something that owes them nothing! They must have literally nothing else in their lives. Sad.
     
  16. doblocruiser

    doblocruiser

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    @Greek Your aggressive tone isn't helping your cause and it surely doesn't make you getting your point across!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
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  17. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    I have no interest in racing online, so the premise of the game being built around online competition doesn't really appeal to me at all. For me GT was always about the cars, the variety and quantity was what kept me hooked on 1-4. I do love motor sport, but games don't really convey the things that make me feel that way...

    Time trialing in GT6 kept me busy - I was interested in the VGT cars, and between the feel of the (new to me at the time) T500RS, the ability to export the lap data to Motec and analyse it, and the stream of new VGTs to test, I did enjoy GT6 quite a lot. The course maker implementation wasn't up to scratch, but could (in theory) have been the single biggest feature of the series for me. Sadly, my tablet broke, I'd sold my wheel, and the VGTs stopped appearing.

    So what about GTS? The lack of cars is disappointing, very disappointing. As is the lack of tracks... however, over the years I've come around to the appeal of a livery editor... I used to hate the idea - but since I've never really switched to online play, my gripes about livery editors aren't likely to materialise - and now I have to admit, it's the single biggest draw of GTS for me. Most likely the livery editor will be the reason why I buy a PS4 and GTS.

    I can't deny the in game championships from GT5 and GT6 were a little uninspiring. I know they're basically the same events we've always had, and it's not the events themselves that I minded, I just think it would be better if they each had some sense of identity - something to make them feel like different championships or series' - rather than just ticking races off from a list of events. AI Car selection could be improved too ;). We don't yet know exactly what GTS will offer in this respect yet, so it's tough to say.

    On the subject of AI, yeah, it clearly could be better... but for me, an AI that is simply un-competitive and a little clumsy, is better than a real player that may also be un-competitive and clumsy, or too competitive, or drunk, or laggy, or asleep, or simply there to wreck people, or likes to get offensive on the mic, or has alien skills and I don't seem them all race... or is basically any other type of person whose style and ability is not the same as mine.

    So between what sounds like it might be limited offline series/championship racing, and a potentially un-competitive AI, what do I think GTS might offer me aside from the livery editor? Not much to be honest - the biggest hope maybe the event creator.

    If they bring back the Motec data export (ideally working a little more accurately this time) then I'll have cause to put in some serious laps re-testing the VGT's! This would likely inspire me to pick up a new wheel too as, if nothing else, it makes the game more involving. Though the longevity of the game play will then be linked to how many tracks we see added to the game - which I don't have huge expectations for.


    tl;dr I liked when GT was more focused on cars, than competition. I was happy when it felt like a Best Motoring video... I don't need it to feel like an FIA world championship. GTS is not a move I think I will like, but I guess I'll find out in October.
     
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  18. Tornado

    Tornado

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    37,739
    Based on your long winded post that said nothing more than "no u" in about ten different ways, sure doesn't look it from here.
     
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  19. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    The attitude is going to lead to a very quick end to your membership if it continues.


    I've done the maths, I was asking if you had.

    GTS has a ratio of 30% Production to 70% Race cars, AC has a ratio of 56% Production to 44% Race and Track cars. In terms of car count its 39 production cars in GTS and 71 in AC.

    Even PC2, which has an unashamed race car bias has more production cars in it that GTS (42 vs 39).


    The attitude is going to lead to a very quick end to your membership if it continues.

    Once again you don't get to tell other members what or how to post, do not continue to do so. Oh and I didn't present it as fact, I presented it as opinion, which I have no requirement to prove.


    I don't need to read the list again, it doesn't support or prove the claim you made.

    PD and Kaz have said many things in the past, not all of them have turned out to be correct.

    Look at those opinions posted as facts, again.


    It would indicate that the vehicle modeling and damage model was to a higher fidelity.


    Which would make it of a lower fidelity in that area.


    Nope. I'm stating that you are a liar and have posted misleadingly as you have posted opinion as fact and then denied doing so.


    Its evidence of the titles that they have made, nothing more and nothing less.

    You don't get out of it that easily. You made a blanket statement that all Milestone products are trash, SLRE is a Milestone product, back up that claim (BTW - I already have done so for SLRE - numerous times).

    Drop the attitude.


    I await evidence of these facts, please ensure they are in your next post (that's not optional by the way).


    I don't have to do anything, and once again drop the attitude.


    Drop the attitude.


    The last time I humoured a member in this regard they used it to publically post details of my wife, kids, home address, etc. As such I have no intention of doing so, I have however provided details and information to the site owner and staff here in this regard, as such if he is happy to accept it then that is good enough for me (and if its not for you I honestly could not give a :censored:)


    That's not a citation.


    I will make this simple, don't tell other members what or how to post again, do so and a formal warning will be issued.


    That wasn't the claim you originally made, you simply stated the most recent GT is the best, 'best' is a very broad term and made up of many subjective and objective factors. All you have done here is move the goalposts.


    You will have no problem listing them then.


    Moving goalposts again, and failing to answer the question.

    Tell me which titles do you allow on your list of those that are not "designed for people who want to escape from reality"?

    Citation required


    That's quite an accusation, one that I expect you to be able to prove in your next post. As should you not be able to it would be a rather clear and serious breach of the AUP.

    Make sure you either prove this or retract it in your next post, fail to do so and your membership is at an end, you don't get to throw around accusations of that level lightly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
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  20. MightyL

    MightyL

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    you say 800+ lowres and copy/pasted cars. I say still this game with those cars is the only one I love to watch replays of every single car/track combo I have driven. I don't bother watching replays of FM6, PC1 or AC (yes I own those as well) because they all look alot worse although they claim to not have lowres copy pasted cars. Whats more: even when I see the replays of PCars2 or FM7 they still don't look as natural as GT6. Yes they are higher resolution but the feel isnt right.
    Also GT6 had the best online custom lobbies where, once you found clean and matching friends, delivered great gameplay. Yes the occasional online troubles but I have not found another game that does not have them.
    Total package I rate GT6 higher than PCars1. Definitely higher than the rushed and shallow FM6. I have enjoyed hours and hours with GT6 and although I moved on to AC because of the driving feel and yes sounds, still I think it's cheap and cynical to trash this game like that. There's alot more to it than what you are stating.
     
  21. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    It not looking as good as GT's replays doesn't automatically change the fact that they literally aren't using low-res copy pasted cars in those games, especially the latter 2 titles as this is their first iteration. I don't know where that logic is coming from, but it's an extremely odd thing to say.

    The thing GT has down is replay angles for the most part. I don't recall the older games, but GTS is definitely getting those nice replay angles.

    GT of the past had the best lobby set up, allowing you to essentially endlessly hotlap before the race actually started. That was one of my favorite things, but that does nothing to make you find good people to race with easier or make the gameplay better, it was just a good feature to have as you can find good people and good races in any game. The initial feature before the race is what was great. However, even Forza is adopting that and I'm glad, because that is a great addition to any game.

    What was rushed about Forza? and how was it shallow in comparison to GT?

    There very well could be, but this is a focal point because of the direction of the converastion you've jumped into.
     
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  22. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    I made a specific response to a specific claim, don't turn my post into something it is not. You are entitled to your personal preferences.
     
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  23. SDSPOWER01

    SDSPOWER01

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    I do not understand the attitude of defense towards Gran Turismo from many members here. Yes you are very much entitled to your opinion, but coming with opinions and state them as facts is just down right ridiculous and childish I'm sorry.
    The criticism given on Polyphony Digital is in order for them to further improve/fix the game not to bash or trash them, otherwise things such as SOUNDS, PHYSICS, GRAPHICS, would have not been improved.

    Criticism here is viewed as "taboo" towards PD from many fans/members here and is downright absurd (sometimes even resulting into personal attacks because X person does not like what Y person has said of the game).
    If you really like/love a certain title you would always see what is next to improve on and instead of defending it (flaws) you would want to brainstorm with the community on what SHOULD be improved on. (<== THIS IS NOT A FACT JUST MY OPINION).

    Certain attitudes of members here is because they are very much disatisfied ( I am one) with the current state of the game itself in its whole.
    GT sport is downright spectacular to watch (graphically), but not to hear (soundwise), or how it plays out/drives (physics wise) and these are the things that I want GT to succeed and yet they keep lacking in those department. Perhaps GT will never hold up to my expectations but I will keep criticizing in order for them to do so.

    The sound department is very much improved over past GT irretations but does not stack well up to its competitions.
    The physics may well sound revolutionary but yet misses lots of other physical aspects I hear other simulation games provide with better accuracy.
    These are two main things I want GT to further improve on and if possible set a benchmark. But as long as this game will be focused on casual audience I will not hold my breath.
     
  24. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

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    It seems you're conflating two different things.

    I agree that replays aren't as impressive to watch in any of those games compared to GT6. AC arguably gets closest in general TV broadcast-style, but is let down by less impressive graphics. IMO, they're acceptable when driving in-car, but replays show how they're significantly behind the competition (especially in track atmosphere, where even the sterile GT tracks win out).

    But no — no other game has wholesale transferred over hundreds of previous-generation assets. The XB1 Forza games do have carryover models that have been improved on, but even in those cases, they are multi-piece models, not the single-shell Standards.

    Once you find clean and matching friends in any game, it should improve the online lobbies. I ran in an esport event in FM6 last year and ended up making friends with one of the guys I raced against. He was around my speed (a little faster), and had a bunch of similarly quick friends. It transformed my online experience in the game (and FH3).

    IMO, GT6's big strength is the variety it offers online: my biggest pet peeve about FM6 is that I can't open a 'Ring lobby where we can just lap at our own pace. I don't care for all the drag or cops/cruising lobbies — but I appreciate that they're possible, and I believe their existence speaks to the sort of people GT games typically appeal to.

    I haven't run into a game that's had so many connection issues, though. The good thing is that wasn't a problem in the GT Sport beta, outside of the early days.

    What exactly is rushed and shallow about FM6? It released two years ago and has vastly, vastly more content than GT Sport will when it launches this October.

    I don't know if I'd rate GT6 higher than PCARS1. The latter at launch on consoles was a mess — though GT6 was not without its problems too. At the end of their lifecycles, I appreciate different things about both, and I suspect they appeal to two very different types of folks. I know it's a bit of a cliche to say, but I'm not sure if I can directly compare — they complement each other quite nicely, though. GT Sport and PCARS2 should be a much more direct comparison, however.
     
  25. GT Sport

    GT Sport

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    @Greek First of all hey there patriot:cheers:
    Why are you "aggressive" to other members while they reply kindly to you?
    I don't want to offend you or mean something by saying this, but I am just curious..
     
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  26. Greek

    Greek (Banned)

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    93
    "Aggressive tone"? Scaff has been threatening me and telling me nonsense for many posts now. He does not want to talk honestly about anything, and he started accusing me, falsely, of being a liar, and he lied repeatedly that I violated the AUP. Tornado posted a message with a clear intention to annoy and provoke me. Did he warn him citing: "You will will not harass any individual or any group.", from the AUP? No, he did not. Not only he did not warn him, he also "liked" his post. Everyone can see how childish and dishonest Scaff is. Everyone can see what was posted in the previous pages. Also, he believes that his 10-minute googling made him a master of logic. Ha!

    This back-and-forth with Scaff reminded me of this.

    Χαίρε αδελφό μέλος!

    There is no kindness in any of those posts. Look at their posting history to see their true colors.

    I researched and I saw that Milestone has been releasing run-of-the-mill products for more than a decade (I do not see that changing with GRAVEL). Scaff asked if that is a fact. I said, yes. Then he went crazy asking for evidence and rejecting all evidence because he does not like the truth.
     
  27. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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  28. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    And you're done.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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  29. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim

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    We all may argue from time to time but we generally get along. To ruin what could have been a very beneficial time here over such stupidity is really sad.
     
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  30. MisterOne77

    MisterOne77

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    715
    Is criticism really considered taboo on this site? Because for the past couple of months, I've seen tons of criticism towards PD and like four members actually treating their opinion as fact, or getting triggered at anyone who criticizes GTS. In fact, I would say that I've seen more people complain about these types of members.

    Also, in terms of physics, I don't think your gonna be satisfied with GTS. At this point, from all that I've seen, PD don't seem to be creating a game on the same level of PC or AC. I just don't see that ever happening. I'm fine with this but I know some aren't.
     
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