The new, "improved" (?) Deep Forest.

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I'm interested in what people think of the new version of Deep Forest now that the road has been widened and smoothed. Certainly it's more beautiful, but to me it's less fun to drive. It's been tamed a little too much. I loved blasting thru the bushes. There line thru the course was more obscure, and when you knew the track, you could get away with some stuff that isn't obvious to the unfamiliar eye. It had 'secrets' that aren't there now. It's pretty much straighforward, smooth, stay on the tarmac. Not nearly as wild as it used to be. Still a favorite "original course", but with less character.
 
Ok, maybe I'm totally out of it. But what are you talking about?
 
i think he is basically trying to say. GT4's Deep Forest is not as good as the version in GT3 or earlyer.

To be honest i think that its better in GT4, so what if you cant go driving through trees or whatever. If anything GT4's Deep forest is more challenging becuase it can easily catch you out with its sudden elevation changes and slippery curbs which were not present in GT3 and you have to carefully pick your gears or you will not get faster times. Just becuase the track is wider doesnt take away anything either, If im really going for it i try and stick on the racing line as much as possible. If the track is 15ft wide or 40ft it doesnt matter to me because im still going to be racing on that small section of tarmac.

The only reason the tracks change in each game is becuase in each new generation of GT, PD can attain a closer representation to what they truely think each track should be like.


Spec....
 
A perfectly smooth and wide road allows beginners to take a perfect textbook geometry line, and does not punish the driver if he deviates by a few feet.

Narrow, undulating roads with bushes overgrowing the pavement right over the apex of turns are more challenging. The fastest way around is not as obvious.

The old version was more challenging. It was more wild. It's as if the track has been moved from Europe to the USA.
 
I have to say that I fully agree with Spec here.

Deep Forest has always been one of my favorite 'original' tracks in the series and my favorite version of it is the GT4 one.

It may be slightly wider, but the increased effect of the surface changes, particularly in the complex after the main straight and the compression at the end of the back section, have a much stronger effect on the car, its handling and balance.

Regards

Scaff
 
Razzbar
A perfectly smooth and wide road allows beginners to take a perfect textbook geometry line, and does not punish the driver if he deviates by a few feet.

Narrow, undulating roads with bushes overgrowing the pavement right over the apex of turns are more challenging. The fastest way around is not as obvious.

The old version was more challenging. It was more wild. It's as if the track has been moved from Europe to the USA.
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Well the nurburgring which is one of the most challenging roads in the world but doesnt have anything covering the apexes, infact covering the apexes so you cant see them is pretty stupid and dangerous. Like i mentioned above Deep Forest has many elevation changes and numeous camber changes too. If you take a race car with R tyres then of course its going to be alot easyer than if you were to take a high spec road car with N or S tyres. Try this and you sill see the real challenge the course offers. I recently went to a Lan party with various other members of GTP and we raced numerous times on Deep Forest and it proved to be even more challenging when you are being forced to up your pace as the course really can bite even on those corners you never really expected it from.

Spec....

EDIT:: Thanks for that scaff 👍
 
Specialized
Well the nurburgring which is one of the most challenging roads in the world doesnt have anything covering apexes, infact covering the apexes so you cant see them is pretty stupid and dangerous.
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Stupid and dangerous? We're talking about driving cars as fast as possible! How are you -ever- going to have it "smart and safe"? Why would you want to in the firat place?

IMHO, the GT3 version is much more like the Ring. Crowns, undulations... sure the Ring doesn't have bushes overgrowing it, but it's still got plenty of death traps anyway in the form of crowns, jumps, blind turns... I sure hope they don't widen and flatten it, and make it "safe". Do you?

Specialized
Like i mentioned above Deep Forest has many elevation changes and numeous camber changes too.
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The main straight has more elevation change for sure. But the rest of the track is about the same, and there is MUCH more camber change and general "whoop factor" in GT3 version.

You want "safe" racing, go to a drag strip.
 
Theres no such thing as safe racing... And Drag Strips are not a exception. If your racing 600+hp cars with flames coming out... and accelling 0-160 in the matter of seconds.. Doesn't sound very safe to me.
 
Razzbar
Stupid and dangerous? We're talking about driving cars as fast as possible! How are you -ever- going to have it "smart and safe"? Why would you want to in the firat place?

IMHO, the GT3 version is much more like the Ring. Crowns, undulations... sure the Ring doesn't have bushes overgrowing it, but it's still got plenty of death traps anyway in the form of crowns, jumps, blind turns... I sure hope they don't widen and flatten it, and make it "safe". Do you?



The main straight has more elevation change for sure. But the rest of the track is about the same, -and there is MUCH more camber change and general "whoop factor" in GT3 version.

You want "safe" racing, go to a drag strip.
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No matter the track in the world the owners.organisers will always take out ANY unessesary risks. The fact the nurb has all these dangers is also backed up by the strick rules you have to stick to while actually racing around the course. You are taking what i ment about the removal of the apex covering bushes the wrong way. PD are trying to create the real driving simulator. The original courses are what PD consider to be their visions of ultimate driving roads and will want to make these courses as realistic as possible, bushes over the apex's of corners would not be allowed on a real circuit so why allow it on what they want to be a realistic course.

We obviously have different criteria as to what we find a great circuit. Just because i can see all apex's and i know where the road is going to go doesnt make a circuit less challenging to me. Learning the circuit and how it can punish you allowing me to become a better, faster, consistant and dare i say it.......safer driver is what appeals to me. The fact that DF in GT4 floats my boat better than GT3's version did is just a matter of opionion.

Just for the record racing at a drag strip isnt exactly safe either.

Any car that can do a quater mile in under 5 seconds, any car that hits 350mph in that quater mile and any car that actually hits 250mph of that 350mph is the first half of that quater mile i do not considor safe........... I think if rather take my chances on the Nurburgring!

Spec....

Edit 1:: Couldnt have said it better myself Masta_Yoda 👍

Edit 2:: I totally agree with both Live4speed and Scaff regarding their comments below
 
But there is such a things as safer racing ;). I personally think Deep Forest in GT4 is the best yet, it's not got as many hidden cambers but it's got far more happening with the actual road surface to alter your line or make the fasest line less obvious, or to just completely snap the car round should you push that little bit too hard. Also, almost the entire track is up and down, not just the main straight.
 
Razzbar
Stupid and dangerous? We're talking about driving cars as fast as possible! How are you -ever- going to have it "smart and safe"? Why would you want to in the firat place?
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All comments about who prefers which version of Deep Forest aside (and after all they are personal opinions), the above comment displays and attitude that in relation to real world driving I find very disturbing.

Now while I fully apreciate that this comment may be in regard to 'virtual' driving, as someone who works and trains in the motor industry I can assure you that it is perfectly possiable to be "smart and safe" while driving rapidly.

You ask why would you want to in the first place? Well quite simply out of respect for your own life and safety and that of any other road users. I personally have no problem in admiting that I have driven in an enthusiastic manner on public roads, tracks and proving ground on many, many times. In every case being smart and safe is vital.

Drive on the roads without taking this into account and you deserve to loose you licence, drive like in on a track or proving ground and you will get black flagged, banned or have your race licence endorsed.

Attitude such as the one displayed above are part of the reason why car and driving enthusiasts get a bad name and are considered easy targets for certain sections of the media.

I have trained many people in some of the skills required in road driving, and can state quite clearly that those people who display attitudes such as this are very rarely competent drivers, as they tend to have an opinion that they can learn anything.

My appologies in regard to the off topic nature of this post, but it is a subject that does trigger a certain response in me.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff, it whoever brought up this "stupid and dangerous" sideshow was refering to bushes overgrowing the side of the road. IOW, the relative safety of a track.

My response is that racing is inherantly dangerous. You can't race "safely". Especially on a road course.

Sorry, but people LIKE the -percieved- danger of racing. It wouldn't be nearly as popular, or as fun, if the goal was to be safe. We try and offset the danger in hundreds of different ways. But a "perfectly safe" race track would be soooooo boring. I like the narrower, bumpier, overgrown Deep Forest road better.
 
I was never a really big fan of Deep Forest, but in GT4, it's an alright course. Nothing real special, IMO, but pretty fun when you put some 80's Japanese Cars on it and let them loose.
 
If Deep Forest were a real road that I really drove in real life, I'd consider the change from 3 to 4 a HUGE improvement. But this is a video game we're talking about here. Safety isn't an issue.

But now I'm wondering what all you safety minded racers think of Grand Canyon. :dopey:
 
The issue, topic, whatever- is not really safety. Racing is racing, it is unsafe by nature. What is true is that this is not the original course. This gt4 deep forest does not feel like the gt2 and gt3 versions. It has been modified to be more "real" whatever that means. I did like popping around those old corner bushes to find myself in the perfect groove. I did thrill to the rather bumpy nature of the old asphalt. The track in gt4 is a "new improved" version of the old model, and we all know that sometimes "improving" does not neccessarily make it better.
 
GT3, GT4, it's still a nasty track to the unwary!
 
Well i from driving the track in TT recently, which is the same as the GT4 version. I can definately say that the track is not that smooth there are a number of camber changes, bumps and dips that i didnt notice when i was lapping in a car.
 
I love this track from original GT to 4 to me is a great experience with unsuspecting challenges and that you always have to be on ur feet with it.
 
UberDude
Yes,you are.
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Yeah, but at the very least I actually asked about the subject of the the thread.

But I must say that though I was a big fan of DF in GT3, the GT4 version is closer to what I would want in a "forest" or backroad type of course. It's a lot like some roads near were I live. Though we don't have all the bridges :)

But the big deal with DF has always been the elevation changes. Almost every corner has an exit at a different elevation then it has at entry. To me, this is what makes DF such a fun challenge.
 
I feel Deep Forest is a little more tamed, with the addition paved run-off areas in tight spots, but it's still a challenging, fun, and visually entertaining race track. Definately one of my favorite tracks (SSR5 being my all-round fave) that's carried over from every GT game.

PD should have allowed an enduro there, but the emphasis seems to have shifted to real-life courses.
 
Razzbar
My response is that racing is inherantly dangerous. You can't race "safely". Especially on a road course.

Sorry, but people LIKE the -percieved- danger of racing. It wouldn't be nearly as popular, or as fun, if the goal was to be safe. We try and offset the danger in hundreds of different ways. But a "perfectly safe" race track would be soooooo boring. I like the narrower, bumpier, overgrown Deep Forest road better.
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Razzbar, life is inherantly dangerous. Point of fact on the same weekend that Michael Park lost his life at Rally GB, four runners died at the great North Run.

Almost everything we do carries a risk with it, but thats not however what you said.

Razzbar
Stupid and dangerous? We're talking about driving cars as fast as possible! How are you -ever- going to have it "smart and safe"? Why would you want to in the firat place?
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Now that reads to me that you believe that racing should be dangerous and no attempts should be made to reduce and minimise the risk. A quite deplorable statement in my opinion, and one that dismisses the work done by many hundereds of people (many of them racing drivers) to improve safety in all forms of racing.

Personally I watch racing for the skill involved, not to see people crash. You however seem to be implying that the more dangerous the racing the better.

Scaff
 
I like the Deep Forest on GT4, after not liking it on gt2 I like it on GT4, it's more chalenging and bumpier, making it more of a challenge for suspension setups
 
I enjoy DF more in GT4 than in the previous games, mainly because it's been cleaned up (not as dark, but then again a deep forest would be dark right?), specifically on reverse, the last left hander now has some kind of pavement which serves to be more forgiving of someone like myself who sometimes doesn't take the correct line. Also, the right-left downhill, banked sweeper just before the tunnel, looks alot nicer now that the mountains having a golden tinge to them. I donno about you guys, but I could picture this track being real. It's sort of like the 'Ring's younger cousin IMO :lol:
 
Scaff
Personally I watch racing for the skill involved, not to see people crash. You however seem to be implying that the more dangerous the racing the better.
Scaff
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Oh, please... :crazy: don't cast me as some kind of bloodthirsty ambulance chaser. We are talking about a video game, after all.

I happen to prefer the old Deep Forest. I like the bumps, the narrower road. I like blasting thru the bushes. Nuff said. 👍
 
I like the current track better than the previous versions but I'd like to have the old GT1 sunset backgrounds on it. It was a gorgeous feeling to rocket out of the darkness onto the straight with the sun greeting me welcome, and then vanish into the night again.

- R -
 
the track is great. you really could imagine it being real.
but most important of course is the fact, that it is a challenging circuit which is pure driving pleasure.
 
Razzbar
Oh, please... :crazy: don't cast me as some kind of bloodthirsty ambulance chaser. We are talking about a video game, after all.

I happen to prefer the old Deep Forest. I like the bumps, the narrower road. I like blasting thru the bushes. Nuff said. 👍
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I sorry Razzbar but I did not cast you as anything, your comments did that all by themselves.

I also clearly stated that I was refering to the real world, just as you appear to here

Razzbar
Sorry, but people LIKE the -percieved- danger of racing. It wouldn't be nearly as popular, or as fun, if the goal was to be safe. We try and offset the danger in hundreds of different ways. But a "perfectly safe" race track would be soooooo boring.
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I'm not at all disputing your preference of the earlier versions of Deep Forest (I do however disagree - but I'm not going to say you have to like the GT4 version).

Scaff
 

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