The next tuner challenge..

  • Thread starter Leonidae
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Leonidae

Leonidae

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Okay, let the ideas fly.

I was thinking about these..
-limiting the displacement to 1800cc's. This allows variety of cars from nearly all drivetrains and countries.

-Limiting power to 230 for turbocharged cars, and 300 for naturally aspirated ones. That should keep the competition even, since NA cars usually are bit lighter. ( except MR2 G-limited and SC '86, that have the weight figures swapped :ouch: )

-Wings allowed for FWD's.
 
Shouldn't that be the other way around? 300hp for turbo cars and 300 for NA?

Also, what about a fixed power/weight ratio instead of power caps? Say... 3.0 kg/hp and no lower? Reasonably fast cars, and time can be allowed to become a factor...
 
This was on my mind for some time. But I was hesitant to post it since I was relatively new here.

NA vs Turbo street showdown:
2.0L and under, NA or turbo only
no weight reduction/no rollcage
street-legal N3 road tires only
No racing-grade upgrade parts (such as no brake distribution controllers and pads and other race car-only technologies; we'll discuss this later)
maximum downforce for the front and rear
AWD entrants receive weight penalties
power-weight ratios limitation

This concept is borne out of real-life tuning garages taking their customer/demo cars to mild track competitions.
 
I'm all for either a 5.0L-6.0L challenge or a 2.0L and under challenge.

To the guy above me - Without that Brake Controller, the cars aren't going to turn!
 
No reason not to incorporate a few of these ideas into one challenge - class the entries by displacement and cylinder count, cap each class at a certain WPR, with a seperate category for FWD cars that allows wings. As to N-class tires, I'm not sure how many participants would be up for that - most any car with any added power or removed weight isn't going to be a lot of fun to drive on N tires.

Good ideas so far!
 
mustangGT90210
I'm all for either a 5.0L-6.0L challenge or a 2.0L and under challenge.

To the guy above me - Without that Brake Controller, the cars aren't going to turn!
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But that's the magic of a street-legal car! But the 2.0L-and-under class, their weight will be quite low to begin with and, depending on the car's age, cornering rigidity will be just fine.

I should also add the restriction of no cars with an active center differential. (GD Impreza, Evo 6 and higher, GT-R)
 
Without any adjustable settings, it wouldnt be a tuning challenge. ;)

I vote for 2000cc and under challenge. 1800cc is fine too.


Perhaps a full FF challenge could be done, theres enough of them to go around. Split them into bhp or weight classes, and then test!
 
CraftyLandShark
NAs to N-class tires, I'm not sure how many participants would be up for that - most any car with any added power or removed weight isn't going to be a lot of fun to drive on N tires.
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But my rationale is that Racing tires are an utter bore. A debate on tire choice should be reserved for another topic, but I'm just deducing that Road tires for relatively mild street tunes fit perfectly fine. We're not tuning GT500 cars here, so there's no real necessity for grip levels that exceed real-life physical chassis limitations.

Example:

Note: the cars in this race used tires equivalent to Sports S1 or S2.
 
I actually really like the idea of a full-bore FWD challenge! These cars don't often get much attention, and TCV2 proved that people are willing to tune and enter them.

Setsunakute, these wouldn't be Race tire challenges, they'd likely be on S-class tires, which are intended to represent tires that are extremely sticky and track-appropriate, but still technically road-legal. If there are enough people interested, we could possibly do an N-tire category as well, but gauging from what I know of most of the people likely to participate, I doubt there'd be many entrants in such a class, and if there were enough entrants, I'm almost certain there wouldn't be many judges.
 
S-class tyres FTW. I actually have some FWD's within the depths of my garage, and within some time, I'll release my interpretation of Megane R26. I also have plenty of nice plans for some other cars, as usual...

About N-class tyres.. well, if the car would be from 80's or earlier, that would be proper tyre for them, since in 20 years tyre technology has taken huge leaps. in new cars they would be pointless.
 
An all FWD challenge would be awesome! :drool: I love FWD cars... I drive one and no they don't get enough attention... sure they are a little inclined to undesteerbut still a great challenge! :dopey:
 
Leonidae
About N-class tyres.. well, if the car would be from 80's or earlier, that would be proper tyre for them, since in 20 years tyre technology has taken huge leaps. in new cars they would be pointless.
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Actually, in GT4, N3 Road tires have roughly the same grip characteristics as Potenza RE-01 or similar, which is a high-grip, modern-era, street-legal performance tire. S1 would represent competition tires for street cars, such as Advan A048 tires, which, although they are semi-treaded, are (mostly) road-legal, but are never used for the street in the real tuning world for lack of tire life and unacceptable low-temperature performance.

I spent almost a year constantly guaging the grip characteristics of the game's tires and compared lap results with real-life data. The conclusion was almost always that N3 road tires are, in fact, high-grip, current-era performance road tires that you'd find 'over the counter'.

The only possibility of practically increasing grip on proper road tires in real life is to use wider tires. But that's something you can't do in GT4. And even with racing slicks on a real-life car (which is what GT4 represents as the R-class tires), you'll permanently warp your car's chassis.

So I justified the use of N3 tires in GT4 competitions and stake that justification in realism. it won't give you the same sense of speed, but at least you'd keep it real.
 
There seems to be a lot of support for a two different major ideas so far, which seem like they could easily be combined into a two-division challenge, perhaps called...

PROJECT SMALLCAR

D.1: AWD or RWD cars on S-class tires with no added downforce; 2.0L and under, capped at 350-ish horsepower (or a TBD WPR)
D.2: FWD cars on S-class tires, added downforce allowed; 2.0L (or 2.5L?) and under, capped at 300-ish horsepower (or a TBD WPR)

Running with this theme for a moment, we could do an "A" and "B" class within each division, one for sub-200ish HP, one for sub 350-ish (maybe sub-150 and sub-300 for FWD) The weaker divisions could possibly be on N tires if enough people would be interested.

The question then becomes how to handle rotaries. It would suck to ban them outright, but there'd probably have to be some kind of handicap. Or maybe not...
 
setsunakute
Actually, in GT4, N3 Road tires have roughly the same grip characteristics as Potenza RE-01 or similar, which is a high-grip, modern-era, street-legal performance tire. S1 would represent competition tires for street cars, such as Advan A048 tires, which, although they are semi-treaded, are (mostly) road-legal, but are never used for the street in the real tuning world for lack of tire life and unacceptable low-temperature performance.

I spent almost a year constantly guaging the grip characteristics of the game's tires and compared lap results with real-life data. The conclusion was almost always that N3 road tires are, in fact, high-grip, current-era performance road tires that you'd find 'over the counter'.

The only possibility of practically increasing grip on proper road tires in real life is to use wider tires. But that's something you can't do in GT4. And even with racing slicks on a real-life car (which is what GT4 represents as the R-class tires), you'll permanently warp your car's chassis.

So I justified the use of N3 tires in GT4 competitions and stake that justification in realism. it won't give you the same sense of speed, but at least you'd keep it real.
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The fact remains that this is a racing game, set on racetracks. These tunes, whether optimized for "streetability" or not, will be tested and used on racetracks, not the street.
 
CraftyLandShark
The fact remains that this is a racing game, set on racetracks. These tunes, whether optimized for "streetability" or not, will be tested and used on racetracks, not the street.
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I think you've missed my point. Where the cars will be raced doesn't matter if their grip performance isn't true.
 
Let's see. There's a couple I could think of at the moment.

* RWD Dirt Challenge. - See who's the quickest around our dirt & snow tracks in a RWD car. Same can be done for FWD's.

* JGTC GT300/GT500 category - but must build your own racer, not use an actual JGTC car and tuning it. Minimum weight for ALL cars in each category (make that around 900kg for GT300's, 1050kg for GT500's).

* Late 90's & 21st Century US vs Japan. - Pretty simple to understand. ;) Japanese & US cars only from post '96, only limits would be tyres.

That's off the top of my head and I'm tired as so I'm surprised I came up with this!!

Mafs!!
 
OK . . . I know I don't usually participate in the tuner challanges, but I'm just goint to throw this out there to see what you all think.

How about a 10K Credit challange.
You can spend up to 10,000 on a car and upgrades
(including service work, I.E. oil change)

So you can either invest the bulk of your money into a good car with little upgrades, spend as little as possible saving the rest of your budget for upgrades or attempt to split your budget right down the middle.
 
setsunakute
I think you've missed my point. Where the cars will be raced doesn't matter if their grip performance isn't true.
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I haven't missed your point and yes, it does matter where the cars will be raced - by your own claim, S1 tires represent basic over-the-counter competition tires for street cars. This will be a competition, on closed circuits. Hence, specialized S-class tires with enough grip that people will actually want to drive/judge them, which is really the primary point we should be considering when planning a challenge - there aren't many people here who actually LIKE driving anything more than the most basic tune on N tires. As the primary distinction for a competition, it just won't fly. As a subcategory, maybe.

And Paragon - not a bad idea! 10K is a bit light though - you wouldn't be able to buy anything that has much of a range of adjustment, hence it's not really so much a Tuner Challenge as it is an Accountancy and Bolt-on Challenge :sly: It could possibly work though, with a larger budget.
 
CraftyLandShark
And Paragon - not a bad idea! 10K is a bit light though - you wouldn't be able to buy anything that has much of a range of adjustment, hence it's not really so much a Tuner Challenge as it is a Accountancy and Bolt-on Challenge :sly: It could possibly work though, with a larger budget.
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True.

You could always exclude the suspension from the budget.
Suspension of your choice + 10,000 to spend on the car and available upgrades.
 
I agree with LandShark. I wouldn't want to test anything on N tires. First yes this game focuses on Racing, on closed tracks. I know I wouldn't want to race on standard tires. In real life and in the game. So I must agree with Shark that S tires are what should be used. Plus, no one likes driving with N tires. I hate using N tires, and would not judge that because it's just plain annoying to drive cars on N tires.
 
Sounds pretty similar to what a lot of people seem to favor right now, and having looked over your thread there, I think you're right about WPR being a better capper than horsepower.
 
I'd say no budget, p/w cap, S3s, and possibly a displacement cap of 5 liters... Using a multiplier system as follows:

cc displacement times:
Forced Induction: x1.8
Diesel: x.8
Rotary: 1.7

FI on a Diesel will not impact displacement.

So if we have a FI rotary, for an example, max displacement would be 1633cc on a 5000cc max. FI reciprocal would be 2777cc, and a diesel would be 6250cc.
 
I'm all for the budget cap idea, I don't like the idea of a dispalcement cap- but I would still participate if that happened- but a budget cap would be fun- GM is the best bang for the buck in the world. :sly:

Rotary Junkie- why is diesel x0.8? Diesel is actually really good in a performance set-up, for all that torque it could perform well.
 
If we're looking at no real displacement cap (or a relatively high displacement cap), this wouldn't really be all that much different from any of the other Tuner Challenges except for the WPR cap. But it could work well to have a 2.0L and under category, a 2.0-3.x L, a 3.x L and up, and a seperate FF category, keeping the WPR cap the same across the board. The cars displacing more are going to be able to push much higher top speeds even with a consistent WPR cap, so divisions like those would be necessary if everyone wants lap times taken into account. I do like the budget idea as well - we'll need to do a bit of research to come up with a good credit cap.
 
But aren't Tuner Challenges for extracting the best possible performance and driveability within the games limits? I know that I can make a car with 500-700+bhp with S-class tyres, make it even handle somehow. And actually, I have a good reason not to like N-class tyres. They're murderous stuff in 500R.

That's right, Setsu. Go to MFT and build 500R into Abarth Turbo specs and go to Nurb and see what it's like. I'll bring flowers to your grave.💡:mischievous: Then, if you try it on more sensible track, like Autumn Ring, you'll notice that it's better there, because there the tyres grip (more like the lack of it) helps it to clear the corners in extremely entertaining manner. Feel free to try other N-tyre cars as well.
 
hey, i think i might have a good idea.., why dont we give this new tuner challenge a twist :sly:, say how about a TORQUE LIMIT cap?? power limit cap can sometimes can be a disadvantage for some cars, like the RX-8.., i recently tuned a RX-8, compared it to my MR2.., the MR2 had 100+hp less than the RX-8, but its torque was greater so it was able to pull out the faster lap time.., who's with me?? :D
 

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