The "Official" Tuning Partners Thread

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GfxJG
Title says what it's about, now let me explain.

I myself am a fairly new tuner. And I have, and I imagine a few other people have, problems getting people to review their tunes, maybe because they're new, maybe because they don't know how to grab attention that well. I'm a little of both I assume =P

So my idea was, how about we make a thread (this one can be used once the idea has sunk in), where people can request a tuning partner? A tuning partner would drive your tunes and review them, and you would do the same to his. Of course, you can also apply just to test drive if you prefer driving to tuning.

Just a little idea I had, let's see how people like it.

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Upon request, I will now be making this into the official thread for finding tuning partners. It is mostly catered to newer members, but also more experienced tuners who perhaps want a new view on their latest project. The best combination for either scenario would obviously be a new tuner and an experienced tuner, so both get something (more than 2 experienced guys, perhaps).

Members/Garages looking for partners
GfxJG
Ronald6
Karelian MotorWorks - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5201363#post5201363

Members willing to take on partners/apprentices
Paulie? (maybe, your post was unclear)
 
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Good idea. It kind of happens naturally but I'm sure the more known tuners get most of the attention. Post some tunes and I'll try one out.
 
It's a good idea that would help a lot of tuners learn the art. Alternatively, just use my tunes.:lol:
 
Yeah, he's been around long enough to be banned at least once, just like the rest of us old geezers.. :lol:
 

That was a joke, settle down.;) It actually almost gave me the idea of taking on an apprentice myself, not to become a member of Lion's Den Performance, but to help service the community. I'll sleep on that idea......

Yes, but what would one do when you eventually stop coming here? Eh? :P

Oh you mean when I die? Well I don't know, I imagine most of you will die at the same time as me.:D

Yeah, he's been around long enough to be banned at least once, just like the rest of us old geezers.. :lol:

It's an exclusive club- that's for sure.
 
As a driver and forum troll, here's a few tips to all new tuners... and some for the vets.

1: Make your tunes as easily accessible as possible.
PDF's, XLS, Word Docs, off site links, I don't care, all a bad ideas.
If your tunes aren't visible within 2 clicks, to every single person who enters your thread, then it's too much trouble and you've already lost my attention. Word docs require you to DL documents, time is money. XLS stopped coming with windows, I can't remember how long ago, casual users won't buy it. PDF isn't standard either, requires a download, that will turn a lot of people away. Unless you have a very specific car I'm looking for, I won't spend anytime trying to access your tunes. Motor City comes to mind on this one. He has about 50 tunes I assume, and the first one I'll have actually driven is the Z he entered in the Tuner Challenge, because he uses all PDF formats. Eventually he emailed them all to me, but the point remains.

2: Make them readily available.
1 thread that leads to another thread, with each specific car having it's own thread, blah blah blah, is a pain in the ass. Blueshift and Lotus come to mind here. Winner of this Catagory, Wienish. RKM gets the honorable mention, but requires too much scrolling. Their use of pictures make their threads the easiest to navigate and find what you're looking for. I understand that can be a pain for some people, So a simple list will suffice, For Example, Avid or LDP. MFT fall in the middle, with an 'image list' which is half and half. They've come up with a way to avoid needing pictures of the actual cars, but still make their list much more aesthetically pleasing than Avid/LDP.

3: Readability.
Case in point: Deutsche Rennsport. Good god, scrolling through their OP makes my eyes bleed. If it weren't for Cntrl+F I wouldn't even enter that thread. This is too much of #2. They've clearly made their tunes available with minimum amount of clicks, but at the expense of any form of organization or visual appeal. It'll take an extra click, but I'll find RKM's tune 10x's faster. If you insist on having every tune in a single post, use alignment, color, bold, fonts, text size, something to help it's readability. Pictures... Small pictures are nice, Medium pictures are a toss up, large pictures are clutter, and multiple pictures is spam. Looking at you Moose Knuckle. Vengence is borderline. I prefer RKM's application.

4: Findability.
This includes navigation of your thread, Original posts, tune posts as well as your listing tactics and names... This is where RKM gets another -1 from me. They alter the names of their tunes and sometimes it's difficult to find what you're looking for. On top of that, the names are within the images, meaning they will not show up using Search nor Cntrl F. The first defense would be that they use the 'car based on' where they then state the original car, but understand that, that text is copy/pasted over and over again throughout your entire thread, meaning when I search for "Car X" the search will likely take me to a page that doesn't even contain the tune, and in a 77 page thread, isn't helpful. While I'm being nit-picky, I also don't like using single post hyper-linking like RKM. It isolates the post as an entire page, rather than normal hyper-linking, which takes you to the post, but still within the page of the thread. Sometimes I want to see the posts below the tune, to see what others have mentioned. Afterthought... Updates. This one is tricky. I've often found myself looking for a certain tuners 'new tune' only to realize, I have no clue which one is new and which one's are old. (From the OP) Now, 1 remedy is newest tunes at the bottom of the list, but that sacrifices findability, because your list appears to be completely random. I think MFT wins here again, with the shiny 'new' icon next to their recent tunes.

5: Measure twice, tune once.
For the new tuners this can be detrimental to your credit. Posting tunes as 'tests' or 'feedback' 'incomplete' 'in progress' whatever word you use, if people test it before it's complete and it's crappy, they'll be reluctant to try future tunes. I understand you want feedback, but don't use your client base as unknowing test monkeys. I know there will be a learning curve and that tuners will get better with time, but don't throw something together to test on people if you can't confidently tell me that it's an improvement. Also in this category, make sure you test cars in their stock form, and document lap times. Then as your personal tweaks and adjustments progress overtime, make sure you're getting faster. Don't spend hours on a tune, only to find out, you've made it worse, because you forgot how fast it was, or how it drove prior to tuning it. On the subject of test monkeys or tuning partners, I'd recommended offering drivers to be dedicated testers. I believe Roj and RJ send cars back and forth for each others input before posting them. I know Avid used Thunderstruck as a driver to get feedback on tunes, before Vette finalized them for public.

6: Don't tailor to individuals.
Best example here is me. Don't try to suit your tunes to fit a single persons needs or driving style. Obviously all of your tunes will be biased to yourself as the tuner, since you're the one driving and tweaking based on your findings. But you want to offer tunes that will work for a variety of people. Just because 1 review says 'the car does this' doesn't mean you should adjust your tuning methods to suit their driving needs. Although the reverse also holds true. If you see a trend where people are complaining of your tunes tendencies, regardless of whether you agree, it's probably in your best interest to compensate for what people are experiencing, even if you aren't. The car may feel perfect on exit for you, but if 4 people experience understeer on exit, then you've become the 'individual' and you don't want to tailor to your personal needs. If you do, then there's no point in posting your tunes to begin with.

7: Ignore Adrenaline
True story, I'm an idiot. Don't listen to a word I say. I'm just one guy. Don't sacrifice your personal beliefs just to please everyone else, including me. If tuning feels like it's becoming 'work' then you should stop tuning, even if only temporarily. It's a game, if aren't enjoying it, urdoinitwrong.

Ninja Edit: 8: Racing Soft Tires. I don't actually understand why anyone tunes with anything else, as I assume 90% of people use Racing Softs with absolutely no regard to what the tuners says the tune was designed for. I feel in the long run, people run into problems caused by mismatched tune/tires causing cars to re-act differently, which is technically the fault of the driver for using the incorrect tires, but ultimately, I really don't see the point in using anything less. If you want the car to be more of a 'challenge' then why are you using a tune designed to make the car driver faster/handle better? I dunno, just me.
 
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I also don't like using single post hyper-linking like RKM.

We did the "normal" linking initially (trust me, it's less painful to set up the links that way) but the single post links work better for those on slower internet connections and/or are scroll-happy on pages with lots of pics from reviews etc. Worst case it's an extra click for the end user to look at the posts surrounding the tune. Main reason for the change was people complaining about the tunes not lining up correctly etc and "not being able to find them". They always worked for both of us without going to post isolation but apparently not for other people.

As for tuning partners etc... Well... Roj and I didn't really car swap often, mainly because we knew what to expect. Only time to test a car is when one of us couldn't figure it out properly.

That said, I've been driving most of NTwo's efforts and remarking on them just because eh's a pretty cool guy and doesn't afraid of tuning. Well, not much at least.
 
7: Ignore Adrenaline

Pro advice, but it should have been point #1 so I would have disregarded the rest of post. 💡

Ninja Edit: 8: Racing Soft Tires. I don't actually understand why anyone tunes with anything else, as I assume 90% of people use Racing Softs with absolutely no regard to what the tuners says the tune was designed for...

Bingo... I do it to annoy people. Offering great tunes nobody wants to use and not providing the tunes people want. Success!

I actually started with Comfort Soft tunes but figured most people were idiots and in my infinite generosity bumped most up to Sport Soft.

Off topic... I'm willing to recruit test drivers and in return share the secrets of my mediocre success in the GT tuning scene.
 
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Adrenaline
As a driver and forum troll, here's a few tips to all new tuners... and some for the vets.

...

Ninja Edit: 8: Racing Soft Tires. I don't actually understand why anyone tunes with anything else, as I assume 90% of people use Racing Softs with absolutely no regard to what the tuners says the tune was designed for. I feel in the long run, people run into problems caused by mismatched tune/tires causing cars to re-act differently, which is technically the fault of the driver for using the incorrect tires, but ultimately, I really don't see the point in using anything less. If you want the car to be more of a 'challenge' then why are you using a tune designed to make the car driver faster/handle better? I dunno, just me.

I did the grand valley 60 lap yesterday in my Fireblade using Sports hard tyres.

If being the fastest is the only concern we would all be driving the x2010.

SH tyres aren't as fast as RSs but they are much more forgiving and controlling your drift through the corners is much easier. Sure I could have used RSs and decimated the field but it was much more fun to struggle to stay ahead of them and not make a single error through the entire race (my first totally clean endurance race).

Tuning my Fireblade for SH tyres before the race was a must, the RS setup I used in the previous race (the Tsukuba 9hr) would have made controlling the car a challenge.

There are plenty of situations/races where I prefer to use "lesser" tyres. Don't be hating.

I apolagize for derailing this thread. Moving on.
 
I did the grand valley 60 lap yesterday in my Fireblade using Sports hard tyres.

If being the fastest is the only concern we would all be driving the x2010.

SH tyres aren't as fast as RSs but they are much more forgiving and controlling your drift through the corners is much easier. Sure I could have used RSs and decimated the field but it was much more fun to struggle to stay ahead of them and not make a single error through the entire race (my first totally clean endurance race).

Tuning my Fireblade for SH tyres before the race was a must, the RS setup I used in the previous race (the Tsukuba 9hr) would have made controlling the car a challenge.

There are plenty of situations/races where I prefer to use "lesser" tyres. Don't be hating.

I apolagize for derailing this thread. Moving on.

Apples to oranges.
A driver using a lesser tire to create more of a challenge has nothing to do with a tuner designing the tune around a weaker tire. Design the tune around the tire that 90% of people will be using, to maximize. The 10% who want a challenge can drop as many tire levels as they need to obtain the level of competition or challenge they need.
 
Tune and tyre go hand in hand. If you use a tune intended for RS and slap a set of CH on it the car will not handle to the level of a car tuned for CH.

Irl if I want to trade my wheel/tyre combo on my subaru legacy for something less pedestrian then I will also need to have the suspension changed to match it. Right now the wall of my tyres are much taller than I'm used to. But till I can do it all at once there's no point in upgrading the tyres, the ride would worsen till I corrected for the wheel/tyre upgrade.

We should take this discussion to another thread. Sorry OP.
 
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Didn't want to quote his entire post to clutter up the thread but everything Adrenaline said in post #15 is golden as far as I'm concerned. Nothing disappoints me more than finding a great list of tunes for cars I really like and use often, and finding out a 1000 hp Viper is tuned on Sports Softs for example. A great challenge I'm sure but I'm pretty much done with the A Spec part of the game and racing online is the big challenge for me and it's all racing softs or you can't compete at any level.
 
Racing Soft vs Sport Soft

I think you're about right saying that 90% of people just slap on racing soft tires on every car. Whenever I host an unrestricted tire room it fills up within minutes. If I limit to sport soft I get max 6 people. However, I'd rather race with 6 clean fast drivers than 16 mediocre drivers any day.

But do you ever notice how people are always looking for B-spec and special event tunes where tires are restricted? That's because Racing Soft tires are like a handicap for drivers AND tuners. I can quick-tune just about any car in 5 minutes using the spreadsheet on this site and it will run fine on racing soft tires. Mess with a little camber and a little extra rollbar, maybe a tweak of the LSD and the car is good to go.

Sport Soft tires are another story. Any balance issues are magnified by the lack of grip. If the car had slight understeer on RS tires, it has loads of understeer on SS tires. If I tune a car on SS tires and get it just right, very little changes are needed to run on RS tires.

So my advice to tuners is... Test on SS tires and learn the basics. Verify and tweak on RS afterward. Then get in another car that someone else tuned (or even an untuned car) that has equal power and run a few laps. Get back into your car and make adjustments based on your findings. Switching cars on the fly is the perfect way to identify issues...then research and read up on how to fix those issues. Think you got your tune ready to post? Switch tracks and see if the car still behaves ok.

Also, a great time saver is to use your private online lobby for tuning. Prep a few cars beforehand then enter your lobby. You can switch between the cars without reloading the track. It's so much better than practice mode.

Finally. Quit slamming the suspension on every car. -25/-25 is not ideal for any street car. If you want to reduce body roll, try using anti-roll bars.
 
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^^ This +

One of the reasons I like endurance races is that its a great way to check a tune. After 4+ hrs of the same setup/track combo you will know what's wrong with the car.

Plus I love the way the tyres wear independently of eath other. Its a great way to check your problem areas. Plus as the tyres wear the cars' traits are emphasized.
 
This thread is an excellent idea. Having someone to bounce tunes off is invaluable, if this thread takes off it could lead to people doing a few tunes together, then forming a garage together and living happily ever after.

For the new tuners, don't get hung up on a lack of reviews- with the exception of a couple of major garages (eg RKM, MFT) the rest of us are also struggle for reviews and would walk over hot coals for a good review (hence a lot of people offer "request for a review" deals).

Here's something that worked for me when I moved from GT4 to GT5 tuning: wh0re yourself out to get reviews! I did some reviews for a few garages (not that it was a chore, most of them were fun to drive!) and instead of requesting a tune, I asked if they could review one of KMW's (my garage). It worked a treat- an added bonus was that reviewing others tunes gave me a better understanding of GT5 tuning. (And I am totally happy if people want to use my own "trick" against me! So if you give a decent review in the KMW garage, I will happily help out with one of your tunes however I can. Maybe the cynical folks will think my "trick" here is just a dirty tactic to get some more KMW reviews for myself! Maybe there's a bit of that at a subconscious level, but both sides benefit from the deal so surely it's a good thing?!)


There is some gold in Adrenaline's post, I totally agree with:
1: Make your tunes as easily accessible as possible.
PDF's, XLS, Word Docs, off site links, I don't care, all a bad ideas.

2: Make them readily available.
1 thread that leads to another thread, with each specific car having it's own thread, blah blah blah, is a pain in the ass.

3: Readability.

4: Findability.
This includes navigation of your thread, Original posts, tune posts as well as your listing tactics and names...

5: Measure twice, tune once.
For the new tuners this can be detrimental to your credit. Posting tunes as 'tests' or 'feedback' 'incomplete' 'in progress' whatever word you use, if people test it before it's complete and it's crappy, they'll be reluctant to try future tunes.

(#7 goes without saying!!)

As for revising tunes after bad reviews, you need to judge if the reviewer actually knows what they're talking about. For example, if a New Member told me that my brake settings sucked but I thought the brakes were fine, then I would just dismiss their comment as being related to their... ahem... driving style...
 
Updated to contain a database of who is looking for partners, and made into the "official" thread.
 
Perhaps we should just get a tuning shop class running in a lounge once or a week or something might be a better idea. Work on different aspects of tuning before and after the workshop hour(s), then bring it altogether with an online free run workshop with the same car and restrictions in place. Each apprentice can show off what they have learned by demo driving their car and getting feedback and advice on their settings from a different tuner willing to host each workshop.
 
Another excellent idea.

Unfortunately I don't have the connectivity for online play. I can barely do the Seasonals and TTs.

For those of us with slower internet connections perhaps pairing a tune with a demo/replay? Sharing the car in online garages?
 
Didn't want to quote his entire post to clutter up the thread but everything Adrenaline said in post #15 is golden as far as I'm concerned. Nothing disappoints me more than finding a great list of tunes for cars I really like and use often, and finding out a 1000 hp Viper is tuned on Sports Softs for example. A great challenge I'm sure but I'm pretty much done with the A Spec part of the game and racing online is the big challenge for me and it's all racing softs or you can't compete at any level.

You just summed up this entire argument in that one quote. The problem is that for the established garages, we're used to tuning to bring out the best in the car's chassis before we go and slap racing soft's on them. The market however is demanding otherwise and that's where some of the conflicts between the consumer and the tuner are occurring.

The customers that I've met online and had the fortune of tuning their cars for them have been straight up with me. I ask them what their request is for, be it circuit, drift or drag tune. I give them a rough deadline (usually 2-3 days) and if I'm late for any reason, I let them know via PSN as to why the delay has occurred. Right now, I've had an R32 for longer than I expected due to the fact he wanted 600hp+ on sport softs for online racing and told him why it was delayed (combination of understeer in the R32 and an illness for me).

We as tuners need to cater more for our customers demands and if they say "we want race soft for online racing", who are we to argue?? But to the customers, please understand that what we do is a passion for us and if you want us to display the art of tuning that we do then give us the pleasure of driving what we've provided for you in it's pure form and telling us what you think of them and for that, we reward you by tuning a car to whatever standards you want. :D What you do afterwards with the review car and the tuned car we make for you in return is your prerogative. 👍
 
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