The Old Vs. The New

[MarinaDiamandis]

Then again, you don't see new people willingly abuse new cars like that, and most of the people I know won't even attempt it in fear that something will break.

A large part of that being that many U.S market trucks are now used as family cars, instead of how they used to be used by working men who needed something to tow with - it's the same story over here with Land Rovers (although they were mainly used by farmers to get around, and not for towing big stuff).

I have seen new U.S market trucks being abused (not so much in person, but on TV and in videos) and they seem to shrug it off pretty well. I highly doubt an older F250 would outperform a new F250 in many categories, if any.

 

[Zenith]

American cars from the 70's were built with american steel, so they're much stronger than cars that are made modern day.

👍 Todays cars are all controlled by computers and have all this wiring. Older cars are so much simpler.

Manufacturers today put sensors in cars so when you crash, data gets sent to the manufacturer so they can study it and improve their car design. Who knows what else they can be tracking

Yeah, they put cheap parts so customers go to repair, giving more money to manufacturer.

You have no freaking clue what you're talking about. Get your head out of your tin foil hat and learn something before you turn on this spout of BS.

 

[Slash]

A large part of that being that many U.S market trucks are now used as family cars, instead of how they used to be used by working men who needed something to tow with - it's the same story over here with Land Rovers (although they were mainly used by farmers to get around, and not for towing big stuff).

Unfortunately this is true, and it angers me. A truck is a truck is a truck and she be used to do dirty work, not haul 8 people around and a sheet of plywood.

I have seen new U.S market trucks being abused (not so much in person, but on TV and in videos) and they seem to shrug it off pretty well. I highly doubt an older F250 would outperform a new F250 in many categories, if any.

I have as well but not nearly as hard as some of the older stuff. I have done comparisons and some of the newer trucks have equal or less capacities as compared to some of the older trucks.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

This.

This again.


All you need to do is look at some pictures on Google images my friend.




True but the older engines can also make good power for not a lot of money. As a personal preference, I prefer N/A over forced induction any day.


Low compression 302 + supercharger and be done with it.


I'm not sure about 900 horsepower but I've seen a lot of Ford 2.3L 4 pots up in the 550-600 horsepower range. Of course these engines are completely unstreetable.

As a former 2.3T owner (2x Merkur XR4Ti) I will say this. They suck.

 

[Slash]

As a former 2.3T owner (2x Merkur XR4Ti) I will say this. They suck.

Stock, oh yes very much in deed. Couple bolt ons will really wake that motor up though. My buddy had one in his odl Fox and it was a dog until he put a Comp 625" lift cam in it. Kid you not that thing sounded like a V8.

 

[Minty]

I dunno, this one seems to be doing pretty okay:

It's sagging a lot, yeah, but it's not exploding, and getting up to speed the way he is is putting far more stress on the whole thing that maintaining a speed on a perfectly level surface.

 

[Slash]

I dunno, this one seems to be doing pretty okay:

That truck is a F-350...of course it can pull more. But the truck it was towing is actually lighter and it's turbo'd and makes much more power than that 6.9 IDI can even dream of. Regardless it did do a decent job.

 

[Minty]

That was more for the "modern trucks being stressed" thing. Same frame, same engine, same powertrain. Just the rear suspension is beefed up.

 

[Slash]

They're still riding on the same frame, which is what you were saying would give up in the modern 250.

I didn't say the frame would go out, I said other things like suspension etc. Then again nothing is really worn out yet.

A: Break an axle/leaf springs/shocks
B: Rip the hitch off the frame
C: Lift the front end of the truck 20 feet in the air
D: Pop the tires
E: All of the above

 

[Tornado]

Yeah, they put cheap parts so customers go to repair, giving more money to manufacturer.

Plastic intake manifolds are by now means ideal, but they are hardly just a cost saving measure. They are lighter, easier to isolate for NVH purposes, and are a bit safer for pedestrians.

 

[Slash]

A select few cases does not make it 100% of the parts.

Try all of them. Seriously, find me and older American car covered in as much plastic as something out now, exterior and interior included. You won't.

 

[Tornado]

Try all of them. Seriously, find me and older American car covered in as much plastic as something out now, exterior and interior included. You won't.

Vega. Citation.

 

[Minty]

I didn't say the frame would go out, I said other things like suspension etc. Then again nothing is really worn out yet.

I edited my post before you quoted. But for now 3 of those things are out, and one of them there's no evidence for. I mean, I don't have any proof that it wouldn't destroy the suspension, but then I haven't seen proof that it would, given we don't know how much weight there was at the hitch, which is kind of important.

 

[Slash]

Vega. Citation.

Still, it isn't nearly as close. Yes they had a lot, but it wasn't almost everything. Hell, I find cars with radiator crossmembers made out of plastic now.

I edited my post before you quoted. But for now 3 of those things are out, and one of them there's no evidence for. I mean, I don't have any proof that it wouldn't destroy the suspension, but then there's no real proof that it would, given we don't know how much weight there was at the hitch, which is kind of important.

That is true. While I have seen those things happen, it didn't in that particular video, but I can't rule out that it can happen. Lets end this here.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Try all of them. Seriously, find me and older American car covered in as much plastic as something out now, exterior and interior included. You won't.

Wait, we're talking about what is and isn't plastic? I was talking about where he was saying that any part from the 70s will out last today's parts.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Unfortunately this is true, and it angers me. A truck is a truck is a truck and she be used to do dirty work, not haul 8 people around and a sheet of plywood.

But why would it anger you? If anything it's a good thing as it secures the future of trucks. The blurring of the line between workhorse and family car is great, which is why I want my Defender to die so I can get a new one with the removable seating - lots of covered carrying space one day, 9 seats the next.

I have as well but not nearly as hard as some of the older stuff. I have done comparisons and some of the newer trucks have equal or less capacities as compared to some of the older trucks.

Less capacity doesn't mean less ability - especially as modern trucks continue to improve in other important areas, such as fuel economy, lower emissions, and comfort. A truck doing more with less is never a bad thing.

The places that these trucks continue to appear, such as oil fields and logging sites, show that they are still great working vehicles.

 

[Slash]

Wait, we're talking about what is and isn't plastic? I was talking about where he was saying that any part from the 70s will out last today's parts.

Oh, that's where I though that was going. I can agree some things might outlast things of today, and there are things today that will outlast things of old. That's just the way it is.

But why would it anger you? If anything it's a good thing as it secures the future of trucks. The blurring of the line between workhorse and family car is great, which is why I want my Defender to die so I can get a new one with the removable seating - lots of covered carrying space one day, 9 seats the next.

Basically it comes down to what I grew up with. Gas guzzling, thundering, monsterous V8, regular cab, 8 foot bed trucks with lift kits and big tires. I have seen things I wouldn't dare try with new trucks which is somewhat why I'm partial to the way the old ones perform, and look. I can understand the appeal of new stuff but to me, that just isn't a truck. A truck wasn't made or designed for luxury or passenger capabilities or great gas mileage, and it certainly wasn't made to be pretty. It was made to be beat up, abused and haul crap. To me, if you want to haul people or ride in luxury by a car.

And you certainly cannot beat the beautiful sound they make:

Less capacity doesn't mean less ability - especially as modern trucks continue to improve in other important areas, such as fuel economy, lower emissions, and comfort. A truck doing more with less is never a bad thing.

As I said, to me that just isn't a truck. Other people may see it that way but I don't. I like the old school square bodies.

The places that these trucks continue to appear, such as oil fields and logging sites, show that they are still great working vehicles.

I agree they still can perform quite well, but at least for me something doesn't click.

 

[Minty]

That is true. While I have seen those things happen, it didn't in that particular video, but I can't rule out that it can happen. Lets end this here.

Fair enough. All this said, though, I have nothing against older trucks/cars. I still love the styling, and older large trucks are great in very many ways. It was just the implication that modern trucks have turned into giant, unreliable, sissy-mobiles I had a problem with.

 

[Slash]

Fair enough. All this said, though, I have nothing against older trucks/cars. I still love the styling, and older large trucks are great in very many ways. It was just the implication that modern trucks have turned into giant, unreliable, sissy-mobiles I had a problem with.

No that is definitely not the case They can still perform, I just like the old stuff better

 

[White & Nerdy]

But why would it anger you? If anything it's a good thing as it secures the future of trucks. The blurring of the line between workhorse and family car is great, which is why I want my Defender to die so I can get a new one with the removable seating - lots of covered carrying space one day, 9 seats the next.

No, it's not great. The Liquid Wrench advertisements have a great quote that can apply to almost anything, not just spray-on lubricants: "'Does it all' only does it almost." You get these new trucks with their luxury and technology, they cost a mint and they're just as expensive and difficult to fix/upgrade as any other new car, at least to a degree. Some of them cost 50 or 60 grand and are like an S-Class inside. You're not going to take a truck like that on to the job site, it's too nice to abuse like that.

Less capacity doesn't mean less ability - especially as modern trucks continue to improve in other important areas, such as fuel economy, lower emissions, and comfort. A truck doing more with less is never a bad thing.

From an overall, unweighted view, that might appear to be the case, but I'm sorry, did you just say that lower emissions and comfort as as important as hauling ability in a truck?

The places that these trucks continue to appear, such as oil fields and logging sites, show that they are still great working vehicles.

Perhaps true, but not as great as they could be. And considering that the purpose of a truck is to be a working vehicle, I'd say that's an effective loss.

 

[Tornado]

So just buy one with plastic bumpers and a regular cab interior you can hose out. They still make them, and they still cost as much in relation to regular cars as they did 15 years ago

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

From an overall, unweighted view, that might appear to be the case, but I'm sorry, did you just say that lower emissions and comfort as as important as hauling ability in a truck?

I didn't actually say that, but as someone who actually uses trucks and tractors on an almost daily basis, it is clear to me that you have no idea what the people who use these types of vehicle want - you seem to have a very old-fashioned view of what a truck is and should be. Let me explain this to you in simple terms:

Lower emissions are a sign of a clean burning engine, meaning better fuel economy and less maintenance, meaning lower running costs, meaning less outgoings. A roaring diesel V8 belching black smoke is fun for all of ten minutes, and a curse after the fuel bill comes in. Applying business sense to a work vehicle is a good idea, if you didn't know. Anyone who doesn't maximise efficiency in their business has no place being in business.

Comfort is very important when you are doing a 12-15 hour shift, up to 20 hours during harvest. You can work harder for longer, and not feel like killing yourself afterwards. You can drive hundreds of miles and still be able to walk when you reach your destination. You can work unaffected by scorching heat, bitter wind, driving rain, or heavy snow. The list goes on...

I don't really understand your problem. Same power (or equivalent through improved technology such as anti-stall, intelligent power delivery, etc.) same ability, with lower emissions, better economy, better equipment and more comfort - what is not to like?

 

[Slash]

I didn't actually say that, but as someone who actually uses trucks and tractors on an almost daily basis, it is clear to me that you have no idea what the people who use these types of vehicle want - you seem to have a very old-fashioned view of what a truck is and should be. Let me explain this to you in simple terms:

Lower emissions are a sign of a clean burning engine, meaning better fuel economy and less maintenance, meaning lower running costs, meaning less outgoings. A roaring diesel V8 belching black smoke is fun for all of ten minutes, and a curse after the fuel bill comes in. Applying business sense to a work vehicle is a good idea, if you didn't know. Anyone who doesn't maximise efficiency in their business has no place being in business.

Comfort is very important when you are doing a 12-15 hour shift, up to 20 hours during harvest. You can work harder for longer, and not feel like killing yourself afterwards. You can drive hundreds of miles and still be able to walk when you reach your destination. You can work unaffected by scorching heat, bitter wind, driving rain, or heavy snow. The list goes on...

I don't really understand your problem. Same power (or equivalent through improved technology such as anti-stall, intelligent power delivery, etc.) same ability, with lower emissions, better economy, better equipment and more comfort - what is not to like?

Well styling is something I don't like

 

[White & Nerdy]

I didn't actually say that, but as someone who actually uses trucks and tractors on an almost daily basis, it is clear to me that you have no idea what the people who use these types of vehicle want - you seem to have a very old-fashioned view of what a truck is and should be. Let me explain this to you in simple terms:

Lower emissions are a sign of a clean burning engine, meaning better fuel economy and less maintenance, meaning lower running costs, meaning less outgoings. A roaring diesel V8 belching black smoke is fun for all of ten minutes, and a curse after the fuel bill comes in. Applying business sense to a work vehicle is a good idea, if you didn't know. Anyone who doesn't maximise efficiency in their business has no place being in business.

Well of course, from the fuel economy side of it, it makes sense. It's just that, because I pay way too much attention to politics, anything about lower emissions immediately sounds like "OH NOES TEH PLANET WILL BLOW UP IF WE DON'T ALL DRIVE PRIUSES!"

Comfort is very important when you are doing a 12-15 hour shift, up to 20 hours during harvest. You can work harder for longer, and not feel like killing yourself afterwards. You can drive hundreds of miles and still be able to walk when you reach your destination. You can work unaffected by scorching heat, bitter wind, driving rain, or heavy snow. The list goes on...

I suppose there are some points there, but I still think care should be taken to keep a truck from being too nice. If you're using it to do normal truck things, both the interior and exterior are going to end up beaten up and dirty. An F-150 Platinum or Lincoln Mark LT is more wasteful and pointless than a crossover "SUV".

I don't really understand your problem. Same power (or equivalent through improved technology such as anti-stall, intelligent power delivery, etc.) same ability, with lower emissions, better economy, better equipment and more comfort - what is not to like?

It goes back to what I said about the abuse properly used trucks go through. If it's too nice to abuse, why bother? You just spent way too much money on a big, clumsy, un-aerodynamic luxury sedan.

 

[Minty]

I suppose there are some points there, but I still think care should be taken to keep a truck from being too nice. If you're using it to do normal truck things, both the interior and exterior are going to end up beaten up and dirty. An F-150 Platinum or Lincoln Mark LT is more wasteful and pointless than a crossover "SUV".

Trucks can be used for hauling without necessarily needing to get into an environment where they'll face any kind of severe wear and tear. Like if someone has a trailer they need to tow, or just likes having the utility of a pickup without really needing it 24/7. Trucks don't need to be in a hazardous/dirty environment to still be useful.

And there are still the "workhorse" options that are built to take a beating inside and out if the job requires it.

 

[michrulejj]

I don't agree with this at all. Especially with modern forced induction cars, massive power is just a few simple parts away.

As an example, 03/04 Cobra already makes a pretty healthy ~360whp (390bhp) stock, but with a supercharger pulley, a few simple bolt-ons, and a dyno tune, they can make over 500bhp. And that's simple stuff.

Want more extensive modifications? I'd love to see a 2 liter engine from the 1970s do this.

From few pages back but from experience I know that this can be achieved with a fee bolt ons but its gonna get real expensive fast. But not always this is true but getting a 351 let's say to 500hp would be cheaper to do than this.

Also you could just get some heads, intakes, throttle body, ECU, cams, and exhaust kit, to make 500hp... Actually with that set up maybe more.

I love cars new and old, would I say modern ones are better? No. Old ones? No. It just all opionon and this will never end.

 

[RDF97]

Wow, I love the debate we've got going but I think it;s time for a new topic. So to kick things off. The Mitsubishi Evo X and the fourth coming Mitsubishi Evo XI.

We all know the Evo is as good as cars get and the Evo X was exactly that, 360bhp from a turbocharged 2 litre 4 pot; FQ360 model of course. However, it has been confirmed for the new XI that it will be a hybrid. Have they lost the plot? Or is this a good thing?

 

[Tornado]

I suppose there are some points there, but I still think care should be taken to keep a truck from being too nice. If you're using it to do normal truck things, both the interior and exterior are going to end up beaten up and dirty. An F-150 Platinum or Lincoln Mark LT is more wasteful and pointless than a crossover "SUV".

There's probably a correlation between that and how Ford has failed to move large amounts of them each time they've tried.

 

[Slash]

And there are still the "workhorse" options that are built to take a beating inside and out if the job requires it.

But even then they still aren't built to the extent over the old ones, ones that still used kingpins over ball joints. The old ones were built to perform a task and as you said you can get them now, they aren't as rugged or optionless as they used to be. Then again, I much prefer the older, squarer styling as opposed to the modern rounder look.


When trucks, were trucks:

Example:

1977 F-250
1985 F-250

2013 F-250

1979 F-150

2013 F-150

I'd argue the 1980-1990 Ford trucks were the last of the tough looking trucks.

And whatever happened to the old school taillgates with the manufacturers name across the back? When you could be proud of what it said on the back.

 

[Tornado]

The only reason the stripper models today aren't as stripper as they were even 10 years ago is because there is no cost benefit to offer, say, an F150 that's so basic it doesn't even have a radio.








The main problem with the trucks of today is the external dimensions are getting much too large; particularly with the cartoonish new Silverado.