The Old Vs. The New

[Zenith]

So we've gone from conspiracy theories to flat out lies. Jeebus, you guys brought the drugs from the 60's along with the cars.

 

[Nicksfix]

Want me to take a picture of it? Cause it's still there.

Yes.
and ......

Yes, post a picture of it because you are exaggerating and I don't believe you can actually produce said photo.

It has to be a photo of the "real dent". Not just one where you have googled it and came into the forum and said ... "well, it's not really mine, but it is one just like mine". Which by chance you have been known to do so in the past.

 

[Slash]

How does a dog get hung up on the antenna?

It was running by. The collar flew in the air after being caught on their fence post by a hair while still attached to the cord. the cord got caught on the mirror when the collar gave way. the collar landed forcefully around the antenna where it just so happened to land after flying through the air. When the dog continued to run the collar slammed down and dented the panel and snapped the antenna and he continued to run through the parking lot dragging the antenna with him. Damn near took the mirror off. The entire event last a real time 1.5 seconds if that.

Yes.
and ......

It has to be a photo of the "real dent". Not just one where you have googled it and came into the forum and said ... "well, it's not really mine, but it is one just like mine". Which by chance you have been known to do so in the past.

I told you I'm taking a video. Starting in the house. I'll write my name on the paper and show my face if I have to for photo comparisons to others I've posted. You'll see the right vehicles I've posted and ill show you the dent and new antenna. Want me to take a measuring tape out there with me too? I can even show you that I'm logged into gtp my account.

 

[phillgt2002]

Lol

The lies.

Seriously. Why are you going into details about this stuff? I believe you.

Everyone else is going into keyboard detective mode.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I like where this thread is going.

 

[Slash]

The lies.

Seriously. Why are you going into details about this stuff? I believe you.

Everyone else is going into keyboard detective mode.

Everyone keeps questioning how I got a dent in one of our cars. I felt inclined to answer. As I've said ill post the video and that will be the end of it. Before this gets locked.

 

[michrulejj]

Since when do people care about safety on older cars? Muscle cars, and other older cars are now considered Show, or rare cars. They won't have the safety or MPG, but times where different back then. People didn't care about this stuff. Look at the Chevy Corvair its a death trap. Older cars are meant to be restored and admired, not really every day driver. They can be but I wouldn't want a 400hp+ V8 that gets 7 mpg as a daily driver.

And I can tell you Slash is not lying about his truck, I seen videos and pictures of it before. I can promise you that.

 

[Joel]

I guess really the old vs. new comes down to your budget and what you want out of the car. It's pretty hard to say seriously that old cars are better daily drivers than modern vehicles, the refinement, comfort, longevity, and economy of even the cheapest Kia far surpasses that of economy cars (and a lot of luxury cars) from back in the day.

I can get the appeal of a '69 Mustang and I'd rather have a '69 Mustang than a brand new one as a weekend toy. However, I'd much rather daily drive a brand new Mustang than a car that's 40+ years old.

 

[lvl1dnIghT7un3R]

Since when do people care about safety on older cars? Muscle cars, and other older cars are now considered Show, or rare cars. They won't have the safety or MPG, but times where different back then. People didn't care about this stuff. Look at the Chevy Corvair its a death trap. Older cars are meant to be restored and admired, not really every day driver. They can be but I wouldn't want a 400hp+ V8 that gets 7 mpg as a daily driver.

And I can tell you Slash is not lying about his truck, I seen videos and pictures of it before. I can promise you that.

People didn't care much about mileage before the oil crisis in the early 70s.

I guess really the old vs. new comes down to your budget and what you want out of the car.
.................
I can get the appeal of a '69 Mustang and I'd rather have a '69 Mustang than a brand new one as a weekend toy. However, I'd much rather daily drive a brand new Mustang than a car that's 40+ years old.

I also agree that it depends on your budget and that you wouldn't want a classic muscle car as a daily driver because of the mileage. But say you want to be able to take it to the drag strip on weekends. You can either have a 2013 Mustang V6 or you can get a 5.0 fox with an aftermarket exhaust system, cams, and a 4.10 rear and you'll have a faster car for less money.

 

[Zenith]

Since when do people care about safety on older cars? Muscle cars, and other older cars are now considered Show, or rare cars. They won't have the safety or MPG, but times where different back then. People didn't care about this stuff. Look at the Chevy Corvair its a death trap. Older cars are meant to be restored and admired, not really every day driver. They can be but I wouldn't want a 400hp+ V8 that gets 7 mpg as a daily driver.

And I can tell you Slash is not lying about his truck, I seen videos and pictures of it before. I can promise you that.

The Corvair's safety problems were not shared by other cars of the time. Using it to say that 60's American cars were dangerous is like saying that composites are bad because of all the trouble asbestos-laced composites were. Most old cars are not death traps.

I drive my older american car every day. It doesn't make 400hp, but I know dozens of cars that see the same use as mine that do make that kind of power and get about 18 combined MPG. Not great, but certainly livable.

Who says they're not meant for daily driving? That's exactly what the cars were designed for. Roads haven't really changed and neither have the drivers.

 

[Swara]

The Corvair's safety problems were not shared by other cars of the time. Using it to say that 60's American cars were dangerous is like saying that composites are bad because of all the trouble asbestos-laced composites were. Most old cars are not death traps.

I drive my older american car every day. It doesn't make 400hp, but I know dozens of cars that see the same use as mine that do make that kind of power and get about 18 combined MPG. Not great, but certainly livable.

Who says they're not meant for daily driving? That's exactly what the cars were designed for. Roads haven't really changed and neither have the drivers.

I concur...but to an extent. They were meant to be daily drivers DURING THAT TIME PERIOD. Gas was cheap at that time, so 10 mpg cars were not a problem. In today's scenario with our predicament of gas prices, these would NOT be considered daily drivers, since you will have to refill the tank very often, which will exhaust your money quicker than an Ariel Atom

 

[michrulejj]

The Corvair's safety problems were not shared by other cars of the time. Using it to say that 60's American cars were dangerous is like saying that composites are bad because of all the trouble asbestos-laced composites were. Most old cars are not death traps.

I drive my older american car every day. It doesn't make 400hp, but I know dozens of cars that see the same use as mine that do make that kind of power and get about 18 combined MPG. Not great, but certainly livable.

Who says they're not meant for daily driving? That's exactly what the cars were designed for. Roads haven't really changed and neither have the drivers.

I know the corvair doesn't mean everything is dangerous. Stop jumping to conclusions and assuming stuff. I never said anything about other ones just in general and I gave that as an example.

And I meant today they are obsolete for daily driving. Now if you can afford it then use them as a daily driver. I would love to have a 71 Chevelle with 454 as a daily driver but that is a a gas guzzling monster. Compared to a Toyota.

 

[Zenith]

I concur...but to an extent. They were meant to be daily drivers DURING THAT TIME PERIOD. Gas was cheap at that time, so 10 mpg cars were not a problem. In today's scenario with our predicament of gas prices, these would NOT be considered daily drivers, since you will have to refill the tank very often, which will exhaust your money quicker than an Ariel Atom

Once again you're lowballing the fuel efficiency. A V8 American car can expect MPG numbers closer to 20 for general use. An I6, slant 6, or 4 pot can expect better numbers.

Also once again, they are considered daily drivers by people like me. Who use them... as daily drivers. I don't know why you keep saying that using an older American car as a daily driver is so outrageous when you have contrary proof typing messages to you over the internet.

Visit any classic American car forum. You'll find more daily drivers than any other kind of car.

I know the corvair doesn't mean everything is dangerous. Stop jumping to conclusions and assuming stuff. I never said anything about other ones just in general and I gave that as an example.

I didn't jump to conclusions. I said your example was not a good one. People did care about the Corvair's problems because it's safety issues were not acceptable for the time.

And I meant today they are obsolete for daily driving. Now if you can afford it then use them as a daily driver. I would love to have a 71 Chevelle with 454 as a daily driver but that is a a gas guzzling monster. Compared to a Toyota.

Obsolete = no longer in use. Plainly untrue. Your point that a Camry is a better all around DD is correct.

 

[Swara]

Once again you're lowballing the fuel efficiency. A V8 American car can expect MPG numbers closer to 20 for general use. An I6, slant 6, or 4 pot can expect better numbers.

Also once again, they are considered daily drivers by people like me. Who use them... as daily drivers. I don't know why you keep saying that using an older American car as a daily driver is so outrageous when you have contrary proof typing messages to you over the internet.

Visit any classic American car forum. You'll find more daily drivers than any other kind of car.

I apologize, I was looking at it through the practical point of view.

To be brutally honest, if I had the money, I would definitely be driving a 73 Nova. However, fuel efficiency (which is considered 30+mpg) is also important today. If you get 20 mpg on your car, congratulations!


And can you please show me a classic American V8 muscle car that gets the proclaimed 20 mpg that you said?

 

[Zenith]

I apologize, I was looking at it through the practical point of view.

To be brutally honest, if I had the money, I would definitely be driving a 73 Nova. However, fuel efficiency (which is considered 30+mpg) is also important today. If you get 20 mpg on your car, congratulations!


And can you please show me a classic American V8 muscle car that gets the proclaimed 20 mpg that you said?

I don't get 20 mpg. I drive like a douche and mostly in city driving so I get closer to 13.

Here's a link to some other people's experiences. Many of them are running modernized engines, so take some numbers with a grain of salt.

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/616170-fuel-efficiency.html

 

[Slash]

Getting 18-20 mpg in a V8 muscle car is not hard to do. I've seen people with small block builds designed for fuel efficiency that have gotten 30+. Then again these people can actually drive without punching it every chance they get.


EDIT:

Video uploading to YouTube.

 

[lvl1dnIghT7un3R]

Having an modern engine swap into a classic car can be expensive. You have to calculate if it is going to be worth it.

 

[Slash]

Having an modern engine swap into a classic car can be expensive. You have to calculate if it is going to be worth it.

I wouldn't attempt it unless you really know what you are doing though because odds are the entire transmission etc needs to get swapped over as well.

 

[Tornado]

Depends what the standard for "modern" is. There are millions of mid/late 80's SBCs and 5.0s that will get roughly the same performance as all but the most powerful of 60's engines but better mileage; and very few of them are hard to find cheap.

 

[lvl1dnIghT7un3R]

I wouldn't attempt it unless you really know what you are doing though because odds are the entire transmission etc needs to get swapped over as well.

And if you can't do it yourself but you still want a 20+ mpg classic muscle car, having a shop do it for you is even more $$. So it has to be worth it to do it. You need to plan it out before you start buying parts.

 

[Slash]

Depends what the standard for "modern" is. There are millions of mid/late 80's SBCs and 5.0s that will get roughly the same performance as all but the most powerful of 60's engines but better mileage; and very few of them are hard to find cheap.

What do you mean by hard to find cheap? Are you refering to an entire car or just an engine? I have a running EFI 5.0 waiting for me @ $100.

And if you can't do it yourself but you still want a 20+ mpg classic muscle car, having a shop do it for you is even more $$. So it has to be worth it to do it. You need to plan it out before you start buying parts.

MPG isn't just about the engine or powertrain, a lot of it is the body design too.

 

[homeforsummer]

Having an modern engine swap into a classic car can be expensive. You have to calculate if it is going to be worth it.

Depends how you define "worth it". If you're looking to save money on gas alone, then it may take many several thousands of miles to make up the difference. If you're looking for an increase in driveability, reliability, refinement etc plus better gas mileage on the side, then it may be worth it from the word go.

 

[lvl1dnIghT7un3R]

.......
MPG isn't just about the engine or powertrain, a lot of it is the body design too.

Agreed, and the driver's foot can also play a big factor.

Depends how you define "worth it". If you're looking to save money on gas alone, then it may take many several thousands of miles to make up the difference. If you're looking for an increase in driveability, reliability, refinement etc plus better gas mileage on the side, then it may be worth it from the word go.

That's what I was talking about.

 

[Tornado]

What do you mean by hard to find cheap? Are you refering to an entire car or just an engine? I have a running EFI 5.0 waiting for me @ $100.

I meant exactly what you said. Unless you absolutely refuse to have something other than the top tier Continental LSC or Corvette engine, there are many varieties of those engines of that vintage that are cheap.

 

[Slash]

I meant exactly what you said. Unless you absolutely refuse to have something other than the top tier Continental LSC or Corvette engine, there are many varieties of those engines of that vintage that are cheap.

Oh true, I thought you were refering to them as a whole, not picking out specifics.

EDIT:


Here's the video:

 

[homeforsummer]

That's what I was talking about.

Gotcha. Though I suspect the other factors I mentioned are as important, or possibly more so, for those who do engine swaps than economy is. Resto-mod cars seem to be more about the driveability and reliability of a new engine (and higher stock power outputs) than they do improving gas mileage.

 

[RDF97]

Thanks for the debate guys, appriciate it. To keep things going and related to the thread, does anyone not like modern car design? Do you think modern cars or classic cars have better visual asthetics? You know look better.

 

[homeforsummer]

Thanks for the debate guys, appriciate it. To keep things going and related to the thread, does anyone not like modern car design? Do you think modern cars or classic cars have better visual asthetics? You know look better.

I can appreciate both, for different reasons.

Depending on the era, older cars are generally prettier than newer ones. Too much aggression has crept into modern car design - wild or striking takes precedence over beauty. Masculine over feminine, generally. Ferraris look edgy and aggressive rather than beautiful, for example, which I'm not sure is a good thing.

I also like how delicate older cars seem to be, even those that definitely weren't in their day. Even a brute like a 60s muscle car has a thin-rimmed steering wheel, chromed shift lever, neat little switches, delicate chrome detailing on the exterior, small head and tail lights etc. Now, everything is big and chunky - thick-rimmed wheel, massive shifter, huge headlights, thick pillars. Again, not sure from a design point of view it's such a great thing.

However, there are some great things about modern car design.

It's incredibly intricate for a start, thanks to improved production techniques. Cheap cars used to be simple and bland, but anyone can do fancy steel pressings these days so you get great design even at the lowest end of the market.

It's also a whole lot more varied, which is a good thing - designers have more freedom than they did when a range just needed a coupe, a sedan and a convertible.

Detailing is generally better these days too. The average headlight or gauge cluster or alloy wheel is a work of art in itself these days.

I've met people who dislike older cars and met people who dislike newer stuff. I can never quite understand it myself - it's fine having a preference, but if you can see absolutely no value in one or the other then you're probably letting that preference get in the way of informed opinion.

 

[Joey D]

My favorite era of car design was the Art Deco era during the 20's, 30's, and 40's. Car were elegant, classy and really refined. Cars from the 50's to the 90's are kind of hit or miss for me, I can appreciate the designs but quite a few of them do absolutely nothing for me. I think in the 2000's designs started to look better again, especially on smaller, more affordable cars as HFS pointed out.

One thing I really don't like is the retro look on most cars. I think the Camaro, Challenger and Mustang would all look significantly better as modern sports cars and not just some restyled "resto mod". I know why they built them that way, but still I would prefer something with a new flare to it.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

My favourite car designs are European cars from around 1950 to about 1975, and cars from about 2003 onward. here are some example form the first category:

Today's cars are, to me, some of the prettiest ever made. They don't have the epic flamboyance of art deco cars, but they are very original and designers have a lot to work with today that they didn't have before. Sure, ther are lots of ugly or ordinary looking cars out there, but look at these:

I have to agree with what Joey said about retro cars, because I feel that modern styling has a character of its own which doens't intersect with designs from the 60's. American cars of the 60's were huge, but look smaller because the bodywork of most cars form that era didn't go down to the groud the way it does on todays cars, so they looked less substantial. It also allowed for a very sleek shape, like an E-Type Jag. Today's cars look as good, to me, but very different.