The problem with PD/SCE

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... is their marketing department or lack thereof.

This is the reason we don't hear updates and release dates and whatnot. Look at their websites. SCEE lists GTPSP as being announced (as opposed to "released" like GT5P. You want to see some screenshots? Head over to the scee press centre and you can look at 3 pictures of the box (two identical) and a banner logo with some words on :crazy:

Or check out the PD website - it has a spreadsheet! :drool:

Okay so granturismo.com is slightly better but, come on, no blog updates since October last year? This is not how we communicate with our (potential)customers in the 21st century!

The simple facts of the matter are that we are starved of info and press releases because no one at Sony has thought to give these poor nerds a marketing department and left the whole thing (by the looks of it) in the hands of either the tea boy or some smelly old mentally impaired tramp who happened to be sitting in a puddle of his own pee, in the street outside their offices, scratching himself and muttering about unicorns.
 
GT doesnt need a marketing department and they know it. Shame really since they have spent a fortune on it.
Brands sell themselves.
 
Hear! Hear! and speaking as a smelly old mentally impaired tramp whose only material worldly possessions accidentally happen to be a PS3 and the PC i'm typing on right now i find the total lack of meaningful and thrustworthy info in the last 5 years to be incompetent to say the least.

We as the GT-community provide them with free and voluntary feedback on a daily basis and are reduced right now to analyse trivial details on the rare occasion anything slightly new is released or discovered.

It would be nice to get some feedback in return from the company we made succesful in the first place, if all people on this planet were like us Mister Yamauchi could hire Mister Gates as his tea boy.

Just a monthly update would be enough i suppose, and knowing when to shut your mouth when yabbing about the ability to release GT5 at any point.
Being confident is one thing, delivering on your promise to your fans/ consumers is far more important.
 
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GT doesnt need a marketing department and they know it. Shame really since they have spent a fortune on it.
Brands sell themselves.

Coca-Cola doesnt need but they invest the 80% of their financial gain in publicity.

Like the OP says, this is 21 century.
 
I totally agree that this is where they let themselves down. They keep banging on about how they want 'everything' to be perfect. Well everything these days includes a fantastic marketing strategy and building a good community around your product in some official capacity. These are two things they are not doing perfectly.
 
The technicalities of modern advertising are immense, these are a couple of examples of the fundamental types of advertising at both ends of the scale.

A company like Coke need to constantly remind people that they are the "Brand Leader" or "Market Leader" in soft drinks and that there product is relevant to there target market, e.g. showing modern trends in music fashion etc.
If Coke stopped advertising, there product would very quickly seem dated and not of today, one of the hundreds of competing products would quickly step forward into any gap left by Coke.
Essentially this process is a circle, spend the most money on adverts to make the most money on sales to be the market leader which brings the most money for adverts.
The quality of the product in this model is not very important, Capitalism at it's finest.

At the opposite end of the scale is Claridge's Hotel in London, who do not spend a penny on traditional advertising, amazingly there model works by charging it's customers to advertise for them, simply by being very selective as to who they sell there product too, e.g. space for product launches, celebrity wedding etc.
There product is therefore advertised by word of mouth, letting the very high quality of product speak for itself, in this example traditional methods of advertising would have a detrimental effect, lowering the public perception of the product i.e. "If they have to advertise it can't be that good"


I believe that Gran Turismo 5 will be / is of such high quality that the model being used for advertising is closer to Claridge's than Coke.
 
The technicalities of modern advertising are immense, these are a couple of examples of the fundamental types of advertising at both ends of the scale.

A company like Coke need to constantly remind people that they are the "Brand Leader" or "Market Leader" in soft drinks and that there product is relevant to there target market, e.g. showing modern trends in music fashion etc.
If Coke stopped advertising, there product would very quickly seem dated and not of today, one of the hundreds of competing products would quickly step forward into any gap left by Coke.
Essentially this process is a circle, spend the most money on adverts to make the most money on sales to be the market leader which brings the most money for adverts.
The quality of the product in this model is not very important, Capitalism at it's finest.

At the opposite end of the scale is Claridge's Hotel in London, who do not spend a penny on traditional advertising, amazingly there model works by charging it's customers to advertise for them, simply by being very selective as to who they sell there product too, e.g. space for product launches, celebrity wedding etc.
There product is therefore advertised by word of mouth, letting the very high quality of product speak for itself, in this example traditional methods of advertising would have a detrimental effect, lowering the public perception of the product i.e. "If they have to advertise it can't be that good"


I believe that Gran Turismo 5 will be / is of such high quality that the model being used for advertising is closer to Claridge's than Coke.

Not really as GT5 will be sold to anyone and everyone with enough shekels to afford it. There are also a plethora of racing games out there just waiting to step into fill the gap GT leaves, some would say they already have. Those of use who are old enough to have experienced GT will still remember why it's so good and the brand will be forever engrained into our psyche, but what about the younger generation who have never played a GT game. It's been that long since GT4 that there is a whole new generation of gamers who are getting there fix from FM, Shift, PC sims and all the others. Advertising is not aimed at those of us who know and love a brand but those new to the genre and those who's attention has been turned by the competition. GT5 will be a massive success but how much bigger a success could it be if Sony/PD got there act together on this side of things.
 
Except that those Claridge's hotel consumers probably drive the sort of cars we hope to see in GT5 whilst drinking a Coke.
GT5 aims at a world wide market just like Coca Cola, not just a high quality niche product only affordable for an elitist "knowing" happy few.

It's not just advertising, it's the interaction with your consumers before a release which is lacking.
I can book a room at Claridge's ( if i could afford it/ or was selected ) or buy a Coke at any given time and make my own judgement whether it's worth the money.

GT5 is something we can only guess after, whether it's even worth the wait and anticipation ( which i'm sure it will be ) is not made clear enough.
If you rely on a loyal consumer base whilst taking an enormous amount of time developing a new product it is simply not enough these days to just releasing some new screens once a year.

Whilst the people envited to stay at Claridge's might feel important for it, PD should take their consumers important enough to addres these issues.
 
but how much bigger a success could it be if Sony/PD got there act together on this side of things.

This is literally the million dollar question.

I agree with some of what your saying, I think a good representation of the Driving Game market is the Automotive market.

My question to you is do you see GT5 as General Motors or Ferrari?
 
Except that those Claridge's hotel consumers probably drive the sort of cars we hope to see in GT5 whilst drinking a Coke.
GT5 aims at a world wide market just like Coca Cola, not just a high quality niche product only affordable for an elitist "knowing" happy few.

It's not just advertising, it's the interaction with your consumers before a release which is lacking.
I can book a room at Claridge's ( if i could afford it/ or was selected ) or buy a Coke at any given time and make my own judgement whether it's worth the money.

GT5 is something we can only guess after, whether it's even worth the wait and anticipation ( which i'm sure it will be ) is not made clear enough.
If you rely on a loyal consumer base whilst taking an enormous amount of time developing a new product it is simply not enough these days to just releasing some new screens once a year.

Whilst the people envited to stay at Claridge's might feel important for it, PD should take their consumers important enough to addres these issues.

I was using those examples as the extremes of modern advertising, I said that GT5 was closer to the Cartridge's end of the scale.

It's a high quality product that has hundreds of thousands of people aware of it without very much advertising.
 
PD sees the Gran Turismo franchise as self marketing, literally anyone who has even bought one of the titles in the series has kept buying them and word of mouth has likely done more for them than advertising ever has.

However since Forza has poped on to the scene I think PD has to put more effort into community support and PR. They do have the GT academy but to me thats not really selling the game in any way!

Robin.
 
This is literally the million dollar question.

I agree with some of what your saying, I think a good representation of the Driving Game market is the Automotive market.

My question to you is do you see GT5 as General Motors or Ferrari?

Without hesitation General Motors, it's mass produced and theoretically everyone in the world can afford it.
 
I was using those examples as the extremes of modern advertising, I said that GT5 was closer to the Cartridge's end of the scale.

It's a high quality product that has hundreds of thousands of people aware of it without very much advertising.

I know what you meant, although they're at the extreme ends of modern advertising i don't think the anology is entirely correct, but i do see your point however.

But i don't think PD can afford a Claridge's attitude as someone mentioned there are millions of new consumers who will not know GT as we all do.
I think it is also in Sony's interest that PD enthuses new potential consumers to persuade them to buy a PS3 and not an X-box with Forza3.

Loyalty is a given when you take your fans seriously ( which they don't ), but you will need more than just fans to shift enough units.
 
Without hesitation General Motors, it's mass produced and theoretically everyone in the world can afford it.

I'll have to respectfully disagree, when it comes to modern advertising methods, brand perception is far more important than estimated SKU's, RRP and Standard Costs.
 
I agree, PD really needs to communicate with FANS more often.

Also I am bit mad at GT PLANET... Why? Since this is number one GT site in the world, we do not have any exclusive information, no elusive interview, and blog (news page) that pretty much shows other webiste links. Comon, we can do bit better?

Or maybe PD is that secretive?
 
I know what you meant, although they're at the extreme ends of modern advertising i don't think the anology is entirely correct, but i do see your point however.

But i don't think PD can afford a Claridge's attitude as someone mentioned there are millions of new consumers who will not know GT as we all do.
I think it is also in Sony's interest that PD enthuses new potential consumers to persuade them to buy a PS3 and not an X-box with Forza3.

Loyalty is a given when you take your fans seriously ( which they don't ), but you will need more than just fans to shift enough units.

I think that GT5 is probably at the tipping point, where spending alot on advertising may or may not increase sales, this is why ad agencies can legitimately charge so much for there services, to do the research that can answer a question like this.
 
I think the opening post of this thread rather was about Sony's strategy of sharing information with us, as opposed to making the game more popular through advertising. I hardly think that Gran Turismo still needs the latter. A proper management of when to release what information, and also how to do it, is something PD needs to catch up on. I suppose they simply don't care, because they work content-orientated. With a game series this big and popular however, you can't just let people find every single bit and piece by themselves. Well, obviously you can, but it's not up to the standards PD should be fulfilling.
 
I'll have to respectfully disagree, when it comes to modern advertising methods, brand perception is far more important than estimated SKU's, RRP and Standard Costs.

I understand where your coming from and know what your saying. I just think that when your in the business of mass production there are so many other similar mass produced products from your competitors that, no matter how good your product, it often comes down to who can shout the loudest. We in this community are not your average consumer. We have a slightly warped perception of the game compared to the masses. We don't need a massive marketing campaign to be convinced of the game but I think the masses do. What we are crying out for though is a community focused portal into what PD are doing. A community manager with a good active community website would be fantastic.
 
Also I am bit mad at GT PLANET... Why? Since this is number one GT site in the world, we do not have any exclusive information, no elusive interview, and blog (news page) that pretty much shows other webiste links. Comon, we can do bit better?

I think an exclusive interview between KY and GTPlanet is well over due, hell he's had a decade to do one!!! He should really recognise this site by now.

Robin.
 
I think the opening post of this thread rather was about Sony's strategy of sharing information with us, as opposed to making the game more popular through advertising. I hardly think that Gran Turismo still needs the latter. A proper management of when to release what information, and also how to do it, is something PD needs to catch up on. I suppose they simply don't care, because they work content-orientated. With a game series this big and popular however, you can't just let people find every single bit and piece by themselves. Well, obviously you can, but it's not up to the standards PD should be fulfilling.

You're correct it is not about advertising, if they were advertising by now GT5 was probably already available ( but they do need ads ).
But as word to mouth is also important and keeping those who are loyal onboard and spread the word PD indeed isn't fullfilling to its standards.
The full hype is probably postponed for now, but they have to keep some of the fire burning, if only to shift PS3 consoles ( well, that's what i would do if in Sony's/ PD's shoes ).
 
I think that what we have to remember is that PD, SCEWS, SCE and Sony are all in the business of making money not products and services.

Employee's of said companies may be more concerned with products and services, however $ are all that matter to the people who make the big decisions.
 
I think that what we have to remember is that PD, SCEWS, SCE and Sony are all in the business of making money not products and services.

Employee's of said companies may be more concerned with products and services, however $ are all that matter to the people who make the big decisions.

But service also includes interaction these days, and good service and good products make good money.
I'm not worried about the eventual product but the service is below standard.

And it's not all about money but also reputation, Kaz wants GT5 to be perfect and he could have released a mediocre game by now cashing the full amount because we would buy it anyway and then offering DLC to cash in even further.

That he chooses not to deserves praise, but i only wished he would keep us informed during the whole development as a lot of other developers do.
 
Also I am bit mad at GT PLANET... Why? Since this is number one GT site in the world, we do not have any exclusive information, no elusive interview, and blog (news page) that pretty much shows other webiste links. Comon, we can do bit better?

Or maybe PD is that secretive?
Why are you mad at GTPlanet because neither Sony nor Polyphony Digital provide me with any exclusive information?

I think an exclusive interview between KY and GTPlanet is well over due, hell he's had a decade to do one!!! He should really recognise this site by now.
Consider the cost. To interview Yamauchi, I'd need to fly to Japan or meet him at a car/game show. The most affordable meeting to arrange would be at E3, SEMA, or CES. Travel expenses would be at least $1,000, while the the extra traffic to the site might bring in $50 in advertising. As much as I'd love do to something like that, I can't take a $950 hit for Yamauchi to dodge questions.
 
I think an exclusive interview between KY and GTPlanet is well over due, hell he's had a decade to do one!!! He should really recognise this site by now.

Robin.

I remember Jordan saying that PD and Sony don't really like us, they see GTP as a "threat", because they would like to do everything through playstation.com and gran-turismo.com

Yes, i know, they are clueless lunatics that know nothing about comunity.

They don't want GTP, but they don't stablish any sort of official stream of news.

They just don't get it.

After trying for a bit (petitions and all) i just gived up and i'll play it when it's in my hands. I don't expect anything out of their Poor Relations department, so it doesn't surprise me anymore.

Anyone that has ever studied marketing, advertising and/or internet social comunities thinks that PD is clueless.
 
Anyone that has ever studied marketing, advertising and/or internet social comunities thinks that PD is clueless.

KY seems to think he's producing art. Which, to a degree, is true but, unlike Michelangelo who painted the Pope's roof and walked away, Gran Turismo is "living" art. And it's the community that keeps it alive. This is the part that the PD virtuoso's can't seem to get their head around - without us the game dies.

You go on any other developer website and you can see that they get it. They run forums (proper forums, not that treeview crap they have on gt.com) and they post updates on progress and hold impromptu competitions and stuff to help build the all important "community" and make them feel involved, hell some of the really good developers will even take suggestions and critique from the community onboard and implement them in the game.

PD on the other hand belong to a byegone age. As was glaringly obvious with the online implementation in Prologue, they clearly have no concept of the internet and how it works in relation to playing, discussing and even developing their precious work of art. So they sit in their ivory tower and throw us unwashed rabble a few scraps now and again, like rockstars chucking plectrums and drumsticks into the crowd but there's one major difference - other than the minority of KY fanboys, most of their users couldn't give a toss about the guys on the stage - they just want to play the game and become part of the very community that PD seems to hold in such disdain.

It'll still work as they are the only kid on the block but sooner or later something like Forza might come out on PS3 or 4 and you can bet your bum that even if their cars aren't as shiny and their physics quite as real that, as long as they enter a discourse with the guys who pay their wages and build that grassroots connection, by the time they release their sequel, Gran Turismo will be over.
 
Their afraid of the competition stealing their ideas. Hence no info.
 
Yup - that's something else I think probably holds a lot of truth. Irony is the competition will be way to busy stealing their customers to give more than a passing toss about their ideas.
 
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