The problem with PD/SCE

[ItsHim]

P3nT4gR4m didn't quite put it in a nutshell, but nevertheless made some very valid points. One thing I keep wondering is if Sony actually has realised that they are no longer "Sony" - the days of the audio CD, the Walkman and the PS2 are long gone and I struggle to find any examples of fields they dominate or lead the market.

It's very understandable that some at Sony might be frightened that the current economical climate is too tricky for launching their precious product just now. On the other hand - video games are like fruit - they tend to get bruises and in turn rot and turn nasty.

Personally I think Sony has lost it in many departments what it takes to be a big leading player in the market, and what they do with GT is pretty much in line with their whole behaviour - wait, delay, overdevelop - until "nobody" really cares what they come up with in the end.

 

[Stonemonkey]

P3nT4gR4m didn't quite put it in a nutshell, but nevertheless made some very valid points. One thing I keep wondering is if Sony actually has realised that they are no longer "Sony" - the days of the audio CD, the Walkman and the PS2 are long gone and I struggle to find any examples of fields they dominate or lead the market.

It's very understandable that some at Sony might be frightened that the current economical climate is too tricky for launching their precious product just now. On the other hand - video games are like fruit - they tend to get bruises and in turn rot and turn nasty.

Personally I think Sony has lost it in many departments what it takes to be a big leading player in the market, and what they do with GT is pretty much in line with their whole behaviour - wait, delay, overdevelop - until "nobody" really cares what they come up with in the end.

video games are like fruit - they tend to get bruises and in turn rot and turn nasty.

Lol, wtf! This topic started off bad enough but this is getting really low.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Video games are like fruit - some of them look like peoples rude bits

 

[Stonemonkey]

Video games are like fruit - some of them look like peoples rude bits

they tend to get bruises and in turn rot and turn nasty.

 

[the Interceptor]

A project of this magnitude, namely one of the biggest game franchises of all time, needs some proper management regarding timing as well as public relations and marketing. What PD is putting out in regards to that is not far off amateurish work.

What do we get? A couple of screenshots now and then, and then nothing at all for months. Videos that people filmed off screens on gaming and car shows. And loads of speculation of features we might get, but which the man himself is "still thinking about" and "not sure whether it will be in the game".

Seriously, take a step back and think about it. Should you ever learn how to realise a bigger project, the first thing you'll learn is that you need to plan it thoroughly first, install proper management and monitor progress. Now honestly ask yourself whether you see these things in Gran Turismo. Ever since GT4, things have been all over the place in all regards. The next steps were released in bits: GT:HD, GT5P, GT Academy demo. GTSP was announced for years, Kaz was constantly ensuring that they're working on it. Then, an arguably partly souped-up, partly downgraded GT4 for PSP was released.

I'm glad that Kaz is still chasing his dream, that he still is advancing his life's work of the perfect driving simulator. But he's doing that, and only that. He and his people are playing around. They have no clear goals, they just program along and will declare the game finished at some random point in the future. Or Sony will declare it finished when they don't want to wait any longer. I understand that realising a dream is nothing you'd plan ahead like a professional product. But this dream is a professional product. They can not handle it like a dream coming true and leave millions of people in the dark, hoping that they'll somehow sort things out by themselves.

And by the way, the above has nothing to do with whether I like the game or not, whether I will buy it or not, and what I have bought in the past. Proper management is happening, or it isn't. In this case, it isn't.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

they tend to get bruises and in turn rot and turn nasty.

👍

 

[eSZee]

Ok then, what about TDU2, just announced yesterday with a few screens but a shiny new website that looks as though it will be updated with regular content, the ability to sign up for new info. Look at what codies are doing on their forums in anticipation of F1 2010. Look at how T10 involve their community in the dev process of their games. That is just a few and a little search around the interwebz of big future releases will show you how other developers involve their community. PD don't involve their community in any way shape or form. I'm not saying that we deserve to have this interaction with them but when your peers are doing it, it might be a good idea to do a little yourself. How can it do anything but good for them and the game?

Codemasters need to do everything including the consumer's laundry in order for the masses to even consider their games. Unfortunately, big companies, in any business field, go away from the mentality to please the consumer. I've read about what they are doing about f1, and from the few things I saw, it sounded like they were blowing smoke. Either way TDU at this point isn't relevant to this topic. Did PD not have a ton of screens and renders to show off at the beginning stages of GT:HD and GT5?

 

[PzR Slim]

Codemasters need to do everything including the consumer's laundry in order for the masses to even consider their games. Unfortunately, big companies, in any business field, go away from the mentality to please the consumer. I've read about what they are doing about f1, and from the few things I saw, it sounded like they were blowing smoke. Either way TDU at this point isn't relevant to this topic. Did PD not have a ton of screens and renders to show off at the beginning stages of GT:HD and GT5?

And the other one Dave, arguably GT's stiffest competition?

 

[Famine]

P3nT4gR4m didn't quite put it in a nutshell, but nevertheless made some very valid points. One thing I keep wondering is if Sony actually has realised that they are no longer "Sony" - the days of the audio CD, the Walkman and the PS2 are long gone and I struggle to find any examples of fields they dominate or lead the market.

BluRay and home 3D (which only comes on BluRay, and can only currently be played on a PS3)?

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I don't see it as a problem because in some respects I like the secrecy. These days I find developers reveal too much so you know what to expect before you have even purchased the game.

Take Turn 10 for example. Prior to FM3 released they spent alot of time and effort hyping FM3 up and revealing many details. However in hindsight I wish they had spent more time developing the game and less time hyping it up!

I suppose I would appreciate more info from PD/Sony. However I wouldn't want them to be as open as Turn 10.

 

[LANDO]

which games are these?
Gow3 is coming out in a couple of weeks and all I've seen so far is a demo and a few movies, commercials JUST started coming out. COD:MW2 was the same way, as was MAG, BF:BC2, Mass Effect2 didn't show TV commercials til after the game came out. Yes, magazines had coverage on those titles but those games had release dates/periods, set in stone moths before release. A magazine won't run a huge story on GT5 not even knowing if the game will be out in 6 months. None of those games measure up in the anticipation level that I have towards them as opposed to GT5, but right now, it's not bothering me. I'm not gonna make threads telling PD how to do their jobs.

But how long we know the release dates for this titles, at least a year ago the people knew that GOW3 was going to be released on March. What the community needs it is a date to wait for...

 

[TokyoDrift]

A project of this magnitude, namely one of the biggest game franchises of all time, needs some proper management regarding timing as well as public relations and marketing. What PD is putting out in regards to that is not far off amateurish work.

...

And by the way, the above has nothing to do with whether I like the game or not, whether I will buy it or not, and what I have bought in the past. Proper management is happening, or it isn't. In this case, it isn't.

In this case, the game does not need marketing. Public relations, OK, but why do we need to be fed information all the time? Back in the day, the only time you knew a game was out was either because you saw it on the shelf, or you read an actual review of the game after it had launched. All this preview and hype generation simply gets in the way of what really matters - development of the game. It's out when it's out, and people who are interested in the franchise will buy it no matter how much they have been crying.

 

[squishydk]

Why are you mad at GTPlanet because neither Sony nor Polyphony Digital provide me with any exclusive information?


Consider the cost. To interview Yamauchi, I'd need to fly to Japan or meet him at a car/game show. The most affordable meeting to arrange would be at E3, SEMA, or CES. Travel expenses would be at least $1,000, while the the extra traffic to the site might bring in $50 in advertising. As much as I'd love do to something like that, I can't take a $950 hit for Yamauchi to dodge questions.

Ill gladly sponsor 50$ of ducktape to tie him to a chair while you question him. That way you are sure to get some answers

On a serious note: Wouldn't it be possible to do an online interview of some sort?

Jordan - you have 130K plus members on this site and we are all itching for information.

You are complaining about a $950 hit? no need we can all take the hit!!!

Why don't you set up a paypal fund to finance a trip for you and somebody off here (you could hold a competition or something to pick the winner) to fly over to japan and visit the PD studios and met with KZ and have the interview to end all interviews - could this not be arranged?

I for one would at a drop of a hat pay £1 to paypal towards this and I'm sure their are many other people on here who would.

Sort it, it will be fun!!!
👍

/signed

 

[Robin]

Consider the cost. To interview Yamauchi, I'd need to fly to Japan or meet him at a car/game show. The most affordable meeting to arrange would be at E3, SEMA, or CES. Travel expenses would be at least $1,000, while the the extra traffic to the site might bring in $50 in advertising. As much as I'd love do to something like that, I can't take a $950 hit for Yamauchi to dodge questions.

I don't think that you should have the front the cost in any way. KY should be making all the effort,

KY was in Texas reciently and it wouldnt have taken him that much effort to meet up with you (compared to you having to go to Japan). He gives every other gaming website under the sun an interview (where most of them squander away the opportunity) but yet he wont give 15 mins to the crowd which really matters. Maybe he assumes is it already got us all 'in the bag' so theres no point.

I remember Jordan saying that PD and Sony don't really like us, they see GTP as a "threat", because they would like to do everything through playstation.com and gran-turismo.com

Yes, i know, they are clueless lunatics that know nothing about comunity.

They don't want GTP, but they don't stablish any sort of official stream of news.

They just don't get it.

After trying for a bit (petitions and all) i just gived up and i'll play it when it's in my hands. I don't expect anything out of their Poor Relations department, so it doesn't surprise me anymore.

Anyone that has ever studied marketing, advertising and/or internet social comunities thinks that PD is clueless.

I do see what your saying, they would probably want to do everything through official forums but other developers are very welcoming of 3rd party websites and communities such as Eden with TDU central because its an excellent place to get feedback.

Robin.

 

[pay2021]

Seems like their current strategy is doing a damn fine job.

And PD and Sony have absolutely no obligations to anyone to put out pictures or anything for the fans to get themselves off over.

Well... is my ******* money who pays the game!!! (my, yours, our...)

 

[Heath_1]

Yeah been reading up here.. It would be a bit silly flying all the way to Japan because as Jordan said he (KY) will only just pull his usual trick and dodge questions. "I cannot answer that. you will have to wait until the full version of the game is released" and "I cannot talk about that right now." It's like asking questions to a computer or bot, you know it will just randomly repeat the same answers over again for each question. Could also be described as getting blood out of a stone.

 

[pay2021]

BluRay and home 3D (which only comes on BluRay, and can only currently be played on a PS3)?

You`re right, but these products can`t compare with the massiveness(is well write?) and sucess of the PS2 or Walkman, like the other member says Sony is not Sony of these days.

Sorry my english.

 

[analog]

Fair enough that they wish to communicate only through official channels and the occasional 3th party interview.
I'm not asking them to reveal all the secrets, part of the fun is speculating and guessing which cars, tracks and features will be included.
The point is the disinformation they themselves spread around probably unintentional or unwittingly and you have to agree they always did.
So perhaps no surprises there but i find it uncomprehendable they still not take the expectations it creates serious.
With disinformation i mean for instance when Kaz told a journo they could release GT5 at any point they wanted, to someone else he told that GT5 may come sooner than we think ( this was summer 2009 ).
And in the past he more or less confirmed certain features for previous GT-installments which in the end didn't appear at all.
You either confirm something and keep your promise or leave it vague ( with vague i mean not going further into it ) or a total secret, it isn't really much to ask is it?
This whole thread isn't meant to diss PD as a company, but only to addres the one issue they simply don't seem to grasp.
I'm looking forward to GT5 with great anticipation and saying complaining about their PR makes you a crybaby, well, i've never cried for something as relatively trivial as a videogame.

 

[ItsHim]

BluRay and home 3D (which only comes on BluRay, and can only currently be played on a PS3)?

True, but Samsung is breathing right down their neck. Besides, can anyone remember Magic Carpet? Ah, those headaches it gave me

Still, BluRay meant some delays in introducing the PS3 and still only has a market share in revenues of ~15% of combined DVD/BD sales. Was it worth it?

Anyway, I simply can't get my head round why on the one hand, PD states GT5 is basically finished, and on the other hand Sony gives the impression that PD isn't quite done yet. If I take my encounter with Sony DADC a few years back into account, I can imagine management really doesn't know what's going on - and probably doesn't care too much either.

 

[PzR Slim]

A couple of people suggested that Codies were not any better than PD in terms of their community attitude earlier in this thread. Codies are running an open day at their HQ next week for a select few regular posters on the official F1 2010 forum to get a chance to play the game in it's current guise and give them feedback. This is a post from the community manager over there:

We'll be prepared, but please remember that the code will still be very much a work in progress and that we'll be improving things right up till the game goes gold

We're hopeful though that you're feedback will give us some insight into what areas of the game need tightening up, what you liked etc.

This may well go on at PD in Japan for all I know but I haven't heard of it happening. I think this is a great way to involve your community in the dev process and reward those community members for their support on the forums. They have also been told they will be able to take videos and photos to post for the rest of us to see. And who knows some of their opinions, and their just regular guys like us who will have similar opinions to ours, may just change the game for th better.

 

[Spagetti69]

Blue ray disks cost too much.

 

[craste]

A couple of people suggested that Codies were not any better than PD in terms of their community attitude earlier in this thread. Codies are running an open day at their HQ next week for a select few regular posters on the official F1 2010 forum to get a chance to play the game in it's current guise and give them feedback. This is a post from the community manager over there:



This may well go on at PD in Japan for all I know but I haven't heard of it happening. I think this is a great way to involve your community in the dev process and reward those community members for their support on the forums. They have also been told they will be able to take videos and photos to post for the rest of us to see. And who knows some of their opinions, and their just regular guys like us who will have similar opinions to ours, may just change the game for th better.

Thats quality - hats off to Codemasters.

PD - shame on you.

 

[Famine]

True, but Samsung is breathing right down their neck.

Televisions are one thing. Sony are currently the only manufacturer with a playback device for 3D.

Still, BluRay meant some delays in introducing the PS3 and still only has a market share in revenues of ~15% of combined DVD/BD sales. Was it worth it?

Even though BluRay has never been limited to Sony (the original working group was formed by LG, Hitachi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sony, Sharp and Thomson - or Sony and all of their rivals), it is synonymous with Sony thanks in no small part to the PS3 (and the fact that 7 of the 8 launch BD movie titles were Sony studio films).

Since the BD standard was finalised in 2006, BluRay has sold in increasing amounts - 1m in its first year (2006), 20m in its second (2007), nearly 100m in its third (2008)...

So from a non-existant market to a 20% market share in 4 years, of a format synonymous (wrongly so) with Sony... worth it? Hell yeah.

 

[TokyoDrift]

Blue ray disks cost too much.

Never heard of them.

Now, Blu-ray Disc, that I have heard of, and last time I checked, the media wasn't priced too badly at all taking everything into consideration. DVD was ridiculously expensive when it first came out, as were the burners. Blu-ray has become more affordable (relatively speaking) in quicker time-frames.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

LOL @ Sony - resting their future on physical disk format, just as the world is ready to move over to downloadable and streaming content

 

[Famine]

I know. Those retards. Just look at the PSPGo as an example of how they're so reliant upon the physical medium at the expense of downloaded content...

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Touche

 

[Coiler]

LOL @ Sony - resting their future on physical disk format, just as the world is ready to move over to downloadable and streaming content

Suit yourself, when I pay for my games then I'd like to have something to grab on.

 

[the Interceptor]

In this case, the game does not need marketing. Public relations, OK, but why do we need to be fed information all the time? Back in the day, the only time you knew a game was out was either because you saw it on the shelf, or you read an actual review of the game after it had launched. All this preview and hype generation simply gets in the way of what really matters - development of the game.

I absolutely agree. But the problem is that PD is putting out material. They're just doing it in a way that is not appropriate for a project of this significance.

It's out when it's out, and people who are interested in the franchise will buy it no matter how much they have been crying.

Then why do 99% of the threads in this section exist at all?

 

[analog]

Then why do 99% of the threads in this section exist at all?

No arguing with that.👍