PS4 The Project Cars Pure Driving Experience Debate

Discussion in 'Project CARS 1' started by TJC_69, Jul 29, 2015.

  1. OzOldTimer

    OzOldTimer

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    Sorry if I have hurt anyone's feelings but I have been reading posts about the use of aids for a long time now. It always comes across to me as ... if you use aids then you are inferior to everyone else and shouldn't be playing the game. The OP stated at the outset that he hoped his post didn't come across as elitist and I merely responded that it did indeed come across to me as elitist. It goes on all the time in the GT forums and evidently the same standard is now going to be applied here for PCars. So be it, I'll just keep my mouth shut and go back to lurking as I have in the past.
    Frankly, I couldn't care less how you want to play the game, I just get tired of being told I have to follow suit in order to get the most out of the game. The game developers do read these forums and there is increasing evidence that they do bow to what they think is the prevailing opinion. There has been an increase in the number of events in GT which prohibit aids and that then forces some of us out because we don't have the skill or desire to reach that level of play. Ultimately, I think that will hurt the developers ... time will tell.
    As you were and I'll get back in my box and leave you blokes to it.
     
  2. thegt500

    thegt500

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    Well, I did some testing yesterday.
    Sakitto international, clear conditions, BMW Z4 GT3 in totally default spec (pressed triangle on settings screen). Thrustmaster T300RS steering wheel.
    I did one outlap then one timed lap with REAL settings (ABS TC stability ON) and got a 1:04.052 but to me it felt a bit 'dull' as the TC and stability control were too intrusive, cutting power in corners etc.
    I repeated the same run with all aids OFF and recorded a time of 1:03.668. Slightly faster and more 'lively' feeling as the car could slip / slide through corners. The downside was brake lock-up which lost me a bit of time as you lose some steering when braking heavily (such as the downhill right-left-right flick after the crest, then the chicane before the finish straight)
    Finally, I used ABS only and managed a 1:02.080. This was not only the fastest run, but also the most enjoyable in terms of cornering slip, braking and general 'feel' of the car.
    So, the upshot (for me anyways), is a more enjoyable experience with just ABS switched ON. If others find the game better with all the aids ON or set to REAL, so be it, its your choice, enjoy yourself. It's all that matters at the end of the day :tup:
     
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  3. Spooky Wooky

    Spooky Wooky (Banned)

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    The change of the title gives the whole thread a different meaning.
     
  4. David Talle

    David Talle

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    TCS is utterly safe on default setting.
    And there's no stability control on GT3 cars. :odd:
     
  5. thegt500

    thegt500

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  6. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Try this if you are interested, disable brake assist, lower brake pressure to 70%, change the brake balance to 65, and if you want, reduce brake mapping to 5 or 7. These should lessen the chance of lock up :)

    The GT3 assists in real life are more aimed toward gentlemen drivers ( at least when the class was born ), the TC was engine only ( based on crank speed and only power reduction, no brake ), while the ABS is limited to 8 solenoid only ( similar to 4 channel ABS ). The stability control may have been achieved by custom ABS module ( mapping/calibration/strategy ), which one could call as stealth stability :), it can make use of other sensors to aid in function similar to stability control, and would be impossible to detect if the system is only active when the brake pedal is used ( sort of similar to EBD being used to help stability control on road car perhaps, but less intrusive and stealth :lol: )

    I think a dedicated electronic stability control is not allowed in GT3 :) I may be wrong though, I only know from what I read.
     
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  7. David Talle

    David Talle

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    Right and right.

    GT3 tech regs:
    art. 2.10 "Any electronic stability control system is forbidden."

    I didn't pay attention to that before as the other GT3 doesn't have stability control, so whether it's @Ridox2JZGTE explanation or it is an error from SMS.
     
  8. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    For the same reason they aren't all sold with steering wheels & pedals.

    The experience isn't diluted in any way if they're enjoying the game they want to.
     
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  9. thegt500

    thegt500

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    I think the Z4 GT3 in game must be prior to 2012 !
    For the 2012 season, DSC was banned so BMW had to adapt their approach for the GTE spec car : http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/02/14/new-and-hungry-bmw-z4-gte-tech-specs/
    So it looks like the Z4 is technically correct, just outdated.

    Edit.
    Anyways, it doesn't matter to me whether TC or DSC is used by any other players. I find I'm faster without either driving aid, just ABS helps. If I'm happy with that (and who wouldn't be), then all the better.
    Just remember, whilst your car is having engine power reduced to prevent wheelspin, I'll happily be pulling away from you 'wagging my tail' :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
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  10. David Talle

    David Talle

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    Indeed, it's a 2012 car (but I can't connect with your GTE story though :confused: it has been banned in the GT3 regs too since then)
    But obviously the main point of TCS is to avoid mistakes not to pull away faster :p
    That's why it is allowed in most endurance series, where it's all about loosing the least time rather than gaining the most.
     
  11. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    You're very welcome to share your thoughts , at anytime :)

    I haven't changed the thread title , it's the original title from thread creation . If that's what you meant .
    I used to work for the company in your user picture by the way :lol:
     
  12. theapex

    theapex (Banned)

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    You probably want to remove any Aero the car has then as that is an Aid...... ever watched these F1 'stars' try to drive an F1 car with front wing damage..... lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
     
  13. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    :lol: Not at all, an F1 cars whole design philosophy is built around the concept of downforce thesedays. The car is so light with the wings pushing the car down onto the track that if the wings become detached in any way then that is the cause for control loss, as the car itself becomes almost uncontrollable at speed due to this phenomena.

    F1 cars years ago used to have some driver aids years ago though, in the shape of traction control, launch control, active suspension etc. All outlawed at various times in the sports history to produce better racing and put the premium focus on the F1 pilots skill,rather than the technology that the engine manufacturers and technical partners could bring to the sport.
     
  14. theapex

    theapex (Banned)

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    So you agree Aero is a driver aid then?
     
  15. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    No. It's an aerodynamic aid to generate downforce and therefore grip. It's not a driver aid in my opinion,it's to stick the car to the ground through high speed cornering. Not to help the driver stick the car to the ground, but to help the car itself. Although i'd be interested in opinions on whether or not others think it is.

    For example ; You can drive a Formula A car in project cars with or without traction control.

    ; You cannot drive a Formula A car in project cars with or without downforce from its front wing. Even if front wing downforce is minimized it will still generate downforce. ( With DRS factored into this equation as what it is intended to be , an overtaking aid for the rear wing , not withstanding. )
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  16. theapex

    theapex (Banned)

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    The point being the only reason F1 cars are remotely possible to do what they do is down to the car designer NOT the driver.... When they stopped allowing TC etc in F1 they just developed Aero to have the same effects..... same same....
     
  17. David Talle

    David Talle

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    If I follow your logic you should also replace the engine by a set of bicycle pedals, because engine is aiding the driver to go quicker. :D
     
  18. theapex

    theapex (Banned)

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    TC helps traction out of corners etc...Aero helps traction out of corners etc....same same... People in computer game land get so uptight about others using assists, it winds me up.... they think they are cool so bang on about it online and try to belittle others... that is all...:D
     
  19. David Talle

    David Talle

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    I think you are assuming a lot of things. :eek:
     
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  20. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    The cars are the pinnacle of automotive technology, hence the name, Formula one. How can aerodynamic downforce stop your wheels spinning out of tight corners exactly? At low speed a Formula One car is subjected much more to mechanical grip than downforce, as downforce is generated at speed ...

    Nope, see above ^^. Nobody is belittling anyone for using assists. You clearly haven't read the thread and have just jumped in to deliver your opinion, which I may add needs some research of how a car actually works before you jump to unfounded conclusions that you have in no way whatsoever been able to back up with facts.

    Plus one. :tup:
     
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  21. thegt500

    thegt500

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    Who's belittling anyone for their use of assists ? Personally, I have no qualms if anyone wants to use driver aids. If that's how they want to play, so be it. As I pointed out in post 32, I'm happy to use just ABS as that gives me the best overall experience, and in my post #39, I stated I'm faster (on average) than someone who uses all driver aids due to the power being cut to the wheels to counteract spin and lateral slip. In cases such as this, its myself who gains any advantage by being able to exit corners faster. I suppose in your eyes, this is an unfair advantage ?
    Your assumption that F1 down force gives the same effect as TCS or DSC, that is downright laughable. Now that is a case for not so much belittling you, but berating you.
     
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  22. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Staff Emeritus

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    Everyone involved in this silly "debate" can stop with the personal insults, or yet more infractions will be handed out.

    Posts deleted. Carry on.
     
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  23. daan

    daan Moderator

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    What he said, with the addition that posting something again that had already been deleted is not a good thing to do. Neither is triple posting.
     
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  24. Spooky Wooky

    Spooky Wooky (Banned)

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    best thread ever!
     
  25. theapex

    theapex (Banned)

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    Hang on i posted proof ?! Proof that F1 teams used Aero to manage the loss of Traction Control....
     
  26. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    Patch 3.0 news broke earlier today, looking forward to the improvements it brings to the immersion of the game and specifically how it will relate to the issues that one can experience in career mode. If they nail that then Pcars has the potential to be an all time great in the sim racing world. The experience, above all else is what's important for me, feedback from the car, controlling it on the limit etc. Risk versus reward and learning how a car behaves on track has never been this good on console so far for me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
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  27. thegt500

    thegt500

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