"The Real Driving Simulator"

@ICEMAN_ZIDANE, you seem to be making things up again, assuming I want this and imply that...

You also seem to have trouble understanding what I'm saying, so I'll just say this. However you want to look at GT5 is up to you. If you play it via a pad, or a 10,000 euro cockpit, it's still the same RACING SIMULATION VIDEO GAME that everybody else is playing. If GT5 could be hooked up to a hardware setup like I described earlier, then I'd consider it approaching a true simulator (a simulator being a combination of hardware and software providing realistic input controls, visuals, audio, physics, AI, motion/forces etc.) but as it stands, it's a game.
 
Well, not to pick on you TD, but you could use that same line of argument against iRacing or LFS, which are pretty highly regarded for the level of simulation they offer, or the best flight sim. After all, they're all just video games.

Maybe we should all just agree to "whatever" on this particular point... ;)
 
At least you get the G-Forces with the above unit. For 30 million....

playing GT5 with one of these would be next best 👍

 
CoolColJ
Forget GT5, you need of these :)

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Wait a second..... Shouldn't there be a second steering wheel on the screen? Because according to most people around here that's a "realistic" view:confused:. Toyota, your simulator fails, not enough STEERING WHEELS!
 
At the same time the screen does not show anything at all...which is different from the average debater that says a real sim shows just the dash

Of course obviously this cockpit IS a car, complete with dash and all.
 
parker_125
At the same time the screen does not show anything at all...which is different from the average debater that says a real sim shows just the dash

Of course obviously this cockpit IS a car, complete with dash and all.
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That's my point though - when I play GT5 Prologue, I sit in the same position as the Toyota cockpit, same distance from the screen, steering wheel in my hands etc. So why then does this top of the line simulator not have a view similar to Prologues', with the steering wheel on screen?
 
I think I comes down to people are different.

Some people want to not see a wheel and whatnot on-screen. While others do.
Me for example, although Im using a DFP and Playseat Evo, I choose to not bring my hands or wheel "into the game" with me on that "fantasy" level, and instead use the wheel but only focus on whats completely on my screen, enjoying the virtual wheel and hands included!

Its just personal preference, plain and simple. Some use the realness of their hands and wheel "into the game" with them and therefore dont want it on the screen as well obviously. All understandable.
 
machschnel
That's my point though - when I play GT5 Prologue, I sit in the same position as the Toyota cockpit, same distance from the screen, steering wheel in my hands etc. So why then does this top of the line simulator not have a view similar to Prologues', with the steering wheel on screen?
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Because it's redundant information to the user to see a virtual steering wheel representing the real steering wheel right in front of them.

It's not comparable because a G25 of DFGT or whatever, as great as they are, aren't a ferrari steering wheel, etc... so you could make the case that an onscreen representation is more sim like.

For this sim, it appears that the steering wheel is a real wheel straight out of the car this sim is actually simulating. So it'd be sort of dumb, I think, to have a second one simulating the real one when the authentic, real one is right there.
 
Tenacious D
Well, not to pick on you TD, but you could use that same line of argument against iRacing or LFS, which are pretty highly regarded for the level of simulation they offer, or the best flight sim. After all, they're all just video games.

Maybe we should all just agree to "whatever" on this particular point... ;)
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Exactly right, and that's the point I'm making. They ARE just video games, that happen to attempt simulation of their real-world activities. That, to me, does not make them a SIMULATOR, which I've described multiple times now as something that goes way beyond just the software.

Sticking a cockpit and wheel in front of the TV or monitor gives you more control and a better feeling that you are driving or whatever, but you are still just controlling a video game using a rather basic input method with comparatively very little feedback.

But, you are right, let's move on!
 
machschnel
That's my point though - when I play GT5 Prologue, I sit in the same position as the Toyota cockpit, same distance from the screen, steering wheel in my hands etc. So why then does this top of the line simulator not have a view similar to Prologues', with the steering wheel on screen?
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Aside of your steering wheel or how close you sit at the screen I doubt that you play with an enought big screen to see a real point of view or scale. Also the Toyota sim don't need a wheel/dash representation because you are sitting inside the real car and all the gauges are functional, I think it is pretty obvious.

I play on a big projected screen and at my point of view the screen wheel match the ground height and scale of my G25, I have no problem with the screen wheel and the game cockpit view is currently the most close to that toyota simulator you can get.
 
Nice simulator from Toyota, "The real granny's driving simulator", If the simulator only allow you to go slow as that, I'd rather drive my own car. That's the point in playing racing simulation games, isn't it? Taking cars you can't buy to tracks you maybe will never see in real life.

Regarding every discussion in this thread, only two assumptions are not faulty in my opinion:

There's no proper hardware to convert the game in a true 100% accurate simulator, no matter how perfect are the physics or hardware or feel of the simulator, you cannot die in a simulator, which is good, but you won't feel afraid, which is one of the many factors to take into account when racing or driving or whatever. This long paragraph can be explained by the next one.

Simulator are games. Games never will reproduce real life conditions. GT5 is game, no matter what hardware you do use, no matter what's the realism level, tires, HUD, view or whatever little thing you pick on to tweak the experience, it's still a game and will always be.

So have fun with the game! I see no point in this whole discussion, but it's very funny to watch. :lol:
 
The Toyota Sim can be driven fast, and it feels like a real car after a few minutes. It can generate up to 0.5g in any direction, which is better than anything out there right now, but it's not made to be a racing sim obviously, more for teaching hazard driving etc
 
If that's the Toyota Sim from that Toyota museum in Tokyo, then I've driven it and it felt very wrong to me. Mainly in the way the car reacted to the inputs i made into the steering wheel. And I Wasnt even trying to drive fast.
 
zootallures
Is this even English? Again, when did I say anything about racing in my post? I'm talking about driving simulation. Break the tablets in half....just like the doctor says.
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picture.php


15 mins are up.
 
you dont understand me
you say a simulator is if you get hardware and software in 1 pack
why?
iracing is the best sim for pc and there you dont get a hardware ...

a SIM has nothing to do with the hardware

lets close the discussion beetween us ,we will get no result

ps:can you give me your address because if gt5 is realased than i will buy a real simulator with all extras and gt5 in 1 package XD
 
Join a race club then and risk a real car on the real track, as well as your real (physical)life!

It is a game that it is hoped will sell a lot and make Sony big $

Oh and its not real cash that you win in the game either :dopey::sly:
 
ICEMAN_ZIDANE
you dont understand me
you say a simulator is if you get hardware and software in 1 pack
why?
iracing is the best sim for pc and there you dont get a hardware ...

a SIM has nothing to do with the hardware

lets close the discussion beetween us ,we will get no result

ps:can you give me your address because if gt5 is realased than i will buy a real simulator with all extras and gt5 in 1 package XD
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And GT5 is will be both the best racing game and best racing/driving simulator on console. So what is your point?
 
Devedander
When comparing GT to other games, it's always pointed out those games are lame arcadey "games" and not simulators like GT with all it's adanced simness and realism.

When it's pointed out GT isn't actually a sim by a lot of standards, the fact that GT is just a game and why does it even matter is quickly brought up.

Double standards around here are a dime a dozen.
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Sad, but true. 👍
 
People don't want a real hardcore simulation in Gran Turismo. They want Gran Turismo. A game that lives somewhere in between all of the completely unrealistic arcade games and the super hardcore driving sims which are not fun for 95% of people.
 
ICEMAN_ZIDANE
you dont understand me
you say a simulator is if you get hardware and software in 1 pack
why?
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No, you clearly do not understand me. I said that a simulator is a combination of hardware and software working in unison to provide a realistic experience. Typically, the hardware attempts to recreate more than just the visuals, audio, physics and AI, and extents to realistic controls and physical feedback like you would experience in the real world.

ICEMAN_ZIDANE
iracing is the best sim for pc and there you dont get a hardware ...
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Best "Racing Simulation Video Game" for PC you mean?

ICEMAN_ZIDANE
a SIM has nothing to do with the hardware
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Well, on every level that statement is just wrong. Assuming that when you say SIM, you are refering to the software/game, then what does that game run on? Hardware.

So according to you, somebody sat at a PC using a keyboard to control "iRacing" is playing a simulator? Not according to my defintion. They are sat at a PC playing a "Racing simulation Video Game" with a keyboard, simple as that.

ICEMAN_ZIDANE
lets close the discussion beetween us ,we will get no result
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I'll close it when I'm happy that you understand where I'm coming from. If you no longer want to discuss this in the open forums, take it to PM.

ICEMAN_ZIDANE
ps:can you give me your address because if gt5 is realased than i will buy a real simulator with all extras and gt5 in 1 package XD
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So now you are using the term "real simulator". What does that make GT5 then according to your new definition? :rolleyes:

You skip about the topic without any consistency, make stupid statements like "simulators have nothing to do with hardware", and as a result you confuse yourself and completely fail to get your point across.

Seriously, what is your point? Mine is simple:

- GT5 is a "Racing Simulation Video Game"
- GT5 played in combination with a sophisticated hardware setup, with 360' surround display, real car controls, motion, vibration, G-forces etc. would be a simulator

To me, an obvious and simple difference. If you cannot comprehend that, maybe you are right we should just stop right now?
 
TokyoDrift yes we should stop it now

you dont understand me
i understand you but you think only your opinion is right ...

ps:real simulators like used from F1 teams are "selfmade"
they dont get everything in 1 package ...its not important lets stop it
 
ICEMAN_ZIDANE
TokyoDrift yes we should stop it now

you dont understand me
i understand you but you think only your opinion is right ...

ps:real simulators like used from F1 teams are "selfmade"
they dont get everything in 1 package ...its not important lets stop it
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A bit rich coming from you eh, arguing that your point is right and mine is wrong? That you understand me and I don't understand you? Puh'lease... :rolleyes:

WFT are you talking about, all this "1 package" crap?! I never said anybody could just go and buy something in 1 package, let alone an F1 team - you made that up. Yes, F1 teams build their own "real simulators" by using a combination of sophisticated hardware and software just like I described many times now. If you can't get your little head around that, please, don't bother responding. If you can, please let me know what your point is, because I still don't know.

Edit: I see hardvibes decided to take down his lame image and replace it with a moderately sensible statement. "Racing Simulation Video Game" is more accurate though.
 
TokyoDrift
Edit: I see hardvibes decided to take down his lame image and replace it with a moderately sensible statement. "Racing Simulation Video Game" is more accurate though.
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I thought it was right to remove it, but you're still complaining about his post even after you both agreed to stop.
 
hardvibes
I thought it was right to remove it, but you're still complaining about his post even after you both agreed to stop.
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I'm not the one who agreed to stop it now, and then continue to argue the point. If he's happy to keep on digging his hole, I'm happy to keep on filling it in.

Oh, and to prove my point:

Kazunori Yamauchi
I think one of the reasons car manufacturers are interested in the GT series is that while it’s basically a video game, it has a far greater reach into the mainstream than you would expect from other video games.
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The man himself even refers to it as a video game, as I've been saying all along. 'nuff said really.
 
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i dont will give a answer because i said lets stop it ...

yeah i think you didnt understood what my point is ,i think i couldnt explain it because i am not a pro in english XD ...
 

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