"The Real Driving Simulator"

[GPR]

It's almost impossible to be a true simulator. thats why true simulator facilities exist but its as good as you can get on a console I reckon. So if anyone can say they are a sim it should be GT.

Much like Iceman I've played other so called sim racers and they aren't real-real either. But the effort put into GT's production is more thorough and should be more technically accurate than any other comercially sold game on any platform.

 

[deep_sky]

I bet if they put GT5 on the PC it would be classed as a "real" simulator...

 

[TokyoDrift]

Dude, TokyoDrift will argue "a black crow white" as they say, It's mostly best to ignore what he says, he only post's to argue with people even when they are clearly right.

And anyhow, GT is more than just a "game", much more for me and alot of others anyway, it's a passion, if it's just a game to you then so what? Who cares?

If a black crow is actually white, then yes, I will argue it to clarify the point. Some people think that a black box inside an aeroplane is actually black...

I just said it how it really is; GT5 is just a game being developed for PS3. That is fact. As I went on to say, how people choose to see that game and the value that it brings to them is totally up to them. Some see it as a simulator, personally I do not. Your feelings towards something do not change anything. It is your opinion, and that's fine, but only one of may different peoples opinions on what it represents. Regardless of how different people perceive it, the fact remains, it's just a PS3 game at the end of the day. If you want to argue that with me, that's up to you, but you'll get nowhere. Your ending with a "who cares?" is proof enough.

@ICEMAN_ZIDANE, I'm not sure what you are getting at when you think I have a problem with PS3. I don't have a problem with PS3, or Gran Turismo.

 

[ICEMAN_ZIDANE]

you say all the time its a game for PS3
and now? i dont understand that

you think all games on consoles are arcade ,no its not true

i said it : gt test real cars on real tracks to get the feeling how the car drives and than they try to make the same car in the game ...

SHOW ME A OTHER GAME WHICH DO THAT
i think i played all racing games and sims and i am very sure that GT5 will be a sim

pls stop saying all the time its a game for PS3 ,arcade and sim has nothing to do with pc or console ...

you know my english is not very good ,i dont understand :a black crow white

 

[Ollie1066]

you know my english is not very good

You don't say.

 

[TokyoDrift]

you say all the time its a game for PS3
and now? i dont understand that

If you do not understand the fact that GT5 is (will be) a game for PS3, then you might as well not bother reading on.

you think all games on consoles are arcade ,no its not true

Did I say that I think all games on consoles are arcade? You are making things up now, no wonder you are confused.

i said it : gt test real cars on real tracks to get the feeling how the car drives and than they try to make the same car in the game ...

SHOW ME A OTHER GAME WHICH DO THAT

Sure they do, and they do a very good job of it. But, I'm still sat there on my sofa, playing a game displayed on my TV screen.

Show you another game, I assume regardless of platform as you never specified? Turn 10 with Forza 3. They tested real cars on real tracks to get a feeling for how the car drives, and they tried to make the same car in the game. How well they succeeded is irrelevant in relation to the question. I'm sure that Codemasters have taken a few cars out on tracks in their time too.

i think i played all racing games and sims and i am very sure that GT5 will be a sim

Depends on your definition of a sim. Regardless of how good the game is in terms of graphics and physics, in itself it's not a simulator. To me, a simulator is a combination of software and hardware that fully immerses you and gives you the look and FEEL of whatever it is you are simulating. So, this means being sat in a real car cockpit (or replica anyway) with real controls, windows and mirrors replaced by screens, speakers placed all over the car, each one dedicated to reproducing the type of sound you would get from that point in the car, and the whole thing mounted on actuators etc. so that vibration, motion and G-forces can be somewhat replicated.

Feed GT5 into that hardware setup, and then you'd have a simulator. Sat in front of a screen with a wheel clamped to a stand (or even a cockpit setup) is hardly what I would call a simulator.

Now, before you harp on about the game simulating aspects of reality therefore it must be a simulator, I know all of that. I'm prepared to coin the term "Simulation Game", because that is more fitting of what it really is.

pls stop saying all the time its a game for PS3 ,arcade and sim has nothing to do with pc or console ...

1. It IS a game for PS3
2. I never said it was an arcade game
3. I never said that sim has nothing to do with PC or console

Why do you keep on making things up like that?

you know my english is not very good ,i dont understand :a black crow white

I speak very little of any other language, so it would be hypocritical of me to criticise your English. Anyway, he meant that I'll argue anything just for the sake of arguing. In his example, I'd argue the fact that a black crow (the bird) was white even if it really was black. Now of course, this is not true - if a crow was black, I'd say it was black. However, I will argue my point if there is justification, and in this example of "GT5 is just a game for PS3", my statement is correct. However, that does not mean to say that I disagree with how others view things personally.

It's funny to see how defensive people get when you disagree with something somebody says, and back it up with your thoughts. It's not all about being happy loving members who always agree with each other and never having your own perspective.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

You see, my problem with this whole is it a game isn't it a game arguement is this.

It is a piece of software, that in itself does Not automatically make it a "Game".

It clearly states in the GT franchise that it is indeed a Simulator

Are you, Mr TokyoDrift, suggesting that F1 teams who use simulators to train drivers are merely using games?

 

[Ladder Set 7]

...they should stop calling GT "The Real Driving Simulator" and call it "The Real Arcade Racer with Good Simulation Elements."

Isn't that the point though? They have always been quite clear that it merely simulates rather than it actually being driving. if they were to tag the game as The Real Driving then I would take umbrage with that as it's quite clearly untrue.

There are of course degrees of simulation and as much as some people like to pretend otherwise, nothing has come close to being 100% accurate.

I'm personally very grateful for that as if I was to take part in the real Super GT championship I'd at very least make a complete fool of myself but more than likely I would die due to having a non simulated steering column wedged through my non simulated face.

 

[Tenacious D]

I don't see why some people have to get all huffy about Gran Turismo. Yes, strictly speaking, it's a video game. However, there are games, and then there are...

 

[zootallures]

Anyway, SrRd RacinG said it perfectly, it's just a game. Buy it, don't buy it. Enjoy it, don't enjoy it. Makes no difference to anybody else around here. Sorry for the tone, but this whole "is it really a simulation?" topic has been done to death already.

I completely disagree with you when the publisher of the game insists that the game is "The Real Driving Simulator." This has to be one of the most relevant topics to the game if it continually insists on calling itself a simulator. As for you tone, I could care less.

 

[TokyoDrift]

You see, my problem with this whole is it a game isn't it a game arguement is this.

It is a piece of software, that in itself does Not automatically make it a "Game".

It clearly states in the GT franchise that it is indeed a Simulator

Are you, Mr TokyoDrift, suggesting that F1 teams who use simulators to train drivers are merely using games?

Who cares what wording Kaz and the marketing folk used when deciding how to brand the franchise?!

OK, let's tighten the net even more, and call it what it really is - a video game. Here are some definitions of that term:

1. A video game is a computer game that you play on your television or on a similar device.
2. A video game is an electronic game that involves interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device
3. A style of game existing as and controlled by software, usually run by a video game console or a computer, and played on a video terminal or television screen. Controlled by a controller, paddle, joystick, mouse, cursor keys or a combination of any of these input devices

So, let's see:

• It is being developed for, and run from a PS3, a games console
• For most people, it's played on a television screen
• It is controlled by a pad or wheel, basically some form of input device

Seems me that GT5 fits the definition of a video game just nicely. No kidding eh? Now, I mentioned earlier that I'd happily accept the term "Simulation Game", and if you look on Wikipedia regarding Gran Turismo, it is quite clearly stated (and therefore widely accepted) as being a "Racing Simulation Video Game".

As for your F1 statement, yes, some F1 drivers do play games like GT in their downtime to do a bit of track learning. However, there is just a little bit of difference between a GAME designed for people to take home and play from the comfort of their sofa, and a Formula One rig that is designed to accurately simulate their cars being thrashed around a track so they can get accurate telemetry and test out different setups without actually taking a car out onto the track.

You can be as pedantic as you like about it, but the fact is, GT5 being played from a PS3 console on a TV screen is just a "Racing Simulation Video Game". If you see it as a "Real Driving Simulator" just because it says so on the box, that's your prerogative.

 

[zootallures]

Everything you discuss is based upon previous experience with other GT games, therefore, this being in the Gran Turismo 5 forum, is incorrect..........

No?

No, because GT5 will be the first GT game with graphics good enough to allows us to actually see all of the pertinent information regarding speed and RPM on the dash. The point is that with the available technology and their claim of "simulation" if they cannot finally allows this to happen the game HAS to stop calling itself a driving simulator. Everyone keeps referencing my post and talking about real life racing. I said nothing about racing, only driving and simulation. That is what the game started out as. It is slowly evolving into more of an arcade racer with simulation elements.

 

[zootallures]

I really hope they fix that. I want to turn the hud off provided I can still choose to see lap times and lap count (or get told )

Hopefully they will do what they did with F1 Championship where you can select which HUD element you want. Dirt does this as well. It can't be that hard to allow for these selections in one of the many option screens.

 

[zootallures]

Trolling! Pure and simple.

Good lord! Unless your mommy is going slam a book on your head or take a baseball bat to your ankles and wrists every time you crash into the armco.......This is a game and you have NO idea what real life racing feels like to compare.....so stop trying, and stop thinking you do.

Is this even English? Again, when did I say anything about racing in my post? I'm talking about driving simulation. Break the tablets in half....just like the doctor says.

 

[Terronium-12]

Isn't there an edit button under each of our posts?

 

[Tenacious D]

The point is that with the available technology and their claim of "simulation" if they cannot finally allows this to happen the game HAS to stop calling itself a driving simulator.

Pointless post is pointless.

Most simulators that I'm aware of have a whole lovely display system on the screen, and I think darn few of them allow you to turn the whole mess off. You can focus on GT as being One Huge Fake Thing, because humans can think whatever they want. But that doesn't mean you have a valid excuse, especially when hundreds of other racing sims don't give you that same leeway. Frankly, I think you're just being a neener seeking 15 minutes of board attention...

 

[Seismica]

Why does GT have to be a game or a simulator?

Why can't it be both?

If it was just pick a car and race, and the physics were preset to professional, tyres preset to life like simulation tyres (Depending on the car), Traction control and ABS catered for realism (Again, depends on the car as to what settings they use), Racing view preset to cockpit or bonnet, then it would be a simulator.

The fact GT is first and foremost a game does not mean it can not be a simulator aswell. It is optimised for use with a Dualshock 3 controller. It is played on a PS3. The 'Simulation mode' resembles an RPG-like gameplay, where you simply don't just pick a car and race, or go through a linear career mode; it gives you so much freedom on what you can do, it allows you to play the game however you want to.

You could buy a high end racing wheel and tweek the settings in the game etc. to make it a simulator. So it is both a game and a simulator, and is intended to cater for both audiences.

 

[TokyoDrift]

Why does GT have to be a game or a simulator?

Why can't it be both?

That's my whole point, it can be both, depending on if you take it for what it represents at face value (a racing simulation video game), or what it can be in your imagination based on how you play and perceive it.

 

[deep_sky]

The point is that with the available technology and their claim of "simulation" if they cannot finally allows this to happen the game HAS to stop calling itself a driving simulator.

You seem to be taking the slogan far too seriously...it's just a branding name, is all; it doesn't mean anything. And it's a good great one at that. In fact, Sony should should apply it to other franchises, maybe like God Of War: The Real Dismemberment Simulator.

 

[the Interceptor]

I understand the wish that since we're getting a realistic cockpit view for the first time, all overlaying displays should come with the option of being switched off.

However, one can hardly say that it is this very feature which determines whether GT5 will or will not be a true driving simulator. After all, the fact that this game runs on a console on your tv at home means that even with the best technical efforts, your driving experience will be somewhat limited by default. Whether or not you have overlaying displays doesn't fundamentally change that, therefore it plays little role in the game being a true simulation.

But GT5 should have that option, that we can agree on.

 

[Seismica]

That's my whole point, it can be both, depending on if you take it for what it represents at face value (a racing simulation video game), or what it can be in your imagination based on how you play and perceive it.

Exactly 👍

You seem to be taking the slogan far too seriously...it's just a branding name, is all; it doesn't mean anything. And it's a good great one at that. In fact, Sony should should apply it to other franchises, maybe like God Of War: The Real Dismemberment Simulator.

Or like Metal Gear Solid; Tactical Espionage Action. I don't know about you guys, but I just run and gun. There are no tactics or espionage involved in my gameplay of that game. Just like in GT all I do is drive, I don't take it as a simulator, because i'm using a gamepad not a wheel (And even with a wheel, it's still nowhere near a full simulation).

 

[amar212]

Oh dear LOOK - it is another "The Real Driving Simulator" debate.

Hurry, make the popcorns ASAP!

It will end as every one before it - you don't want to miss a second!!!!!!

 

[Devedander]

When comparing GT to other games, it's always pointed out those games are lame arcadey "games" and not simulators like GT with all it's adanced simness and realism.

When it's pointed out GT isn't actually a sim by a lot of standards, the fact that GT is just a game and why does it even matter is quickly brought up.

Double standards around here are a dime a dozen.

 

[FLASH48]

Trolling again, i see!! Where are your other buddies?

 

[Devedander]

Trolling again, i see!! Where are your other buddies?

Sorry if your toes are so delicate when they get stepped on you have to call out the offending person... it's ok, if I didn't have any solid rebutle or rational counterpoint I would probably resort to personal attacks too.

 

[Seismica]

When comparing GT to other games, it's always pointed out those games are lame arcadey "games" and not simulators like GT with all it's adanced simness and realism.

When it's pointed out GT isn't actually a sim by a lot of standards, the fact that GT is just a game and why does it even matter is quickly brought up.

Double standards around here are a dime a dozen.

There are other games that are better than GT as a simulator and there are those that are worse. GT is primarily a game. It is aimed at a mass-market audience, it includes unrealistic driver aids, it's primary input device is a joypad. All of these reinforce that fact.

Its kind of you to add something meaningful to the discussion, instead of attempting to offend others who contribute to this forum.

Trolling again, i see!! Where are your other buddies?

Trolls don't have buddies

 

[Spagetti69]

What about PS 3 it only does everything.

It doesn't polish my shoes.

 

[deep_sky]

Or like Metal Gear Solid; Tactical Espionage Action. I don't know about you guys, but I just run and gun.

That's all I do as well

 

[ICEMAN_ZIDANE]

omg
i know too that gt is a game for PS3 but what has a sim to do with PS3 ,you dont need to say that
1.if you want a simulator than you can buy one (i think its very expensive)
2.a simulator doesnt mean that the game you are playing is a sim too if you want you can use a simulator with NFS Shift
you know what i want to say
buy GT+simulator than you have your SIM XD

the reason why i said something that you dont said was that you said all the time its a game for PS3 and its not a sim
i thought you wanted to say that all games on ps3 are arcade
...

It is being developed for, and run from a PS3, a games console For most people, it's played on a television screen It is controlled by a pad or wheel, basically some form of input device

a second time:A SIM has NOTHING to do with your system,if you want you can drive iracing with keyboard
some people will drive gt with a 10.000euro system and some other with a pad

 

[Tenacious D]

When comparing GT to other games, it's always pointed out those games are lame arcadey "games" and not simulators like GT with all it's adanced simness and realism.

When it's pointed out GT isn't actually a sim by a lot of standards, the fact that GT is just a game and why does it even matter is quickly brought up.

Double standards around here are a dime a dozen.

Especially when it comes to defending certain MS games, ne c'est pas?

Having played the TT demo quite a bit, I can safely say that handling and performance wise, it's certainly a sim by a lot of standards, which is usually the crux of arguments of simulation.

Other games such as Forza 3, TRD3, GTR Evo, LFS and others all have their adherents and defend their games as being impeccable enough as far as simulation goes, and tend to look down their noses at Gran Turismo, mostly based on a game five years old on a last generation console. Of course, when a new version of their beloved "pretty darn perfect" game is proposed after a year or so, many of the very same people ask for improvements. And yet to some folk, only GT needs an overhaul.

So... yeah.