"The real racing simulator" vs...

  • Thread starter Lawndart
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Lawndart

Lawndart

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TheLordSnowden
LordSnowden
It's been explained many ways why GT has always been called "the real driving simulator".

Since GT consists mostly of cars and race tracks, arguably the most fun thing to do with cars, even economy ones, is to race. So in essence that is what we do. We race AI, other people, and ourself looking for that extra 10th of seconds.

Question: how would you define GT if it was to be a "real racing simulator" (verse driving simulator) and what are the key things you think should be done to the series to be a more authentic racing game? And do you have a desire to see GT evolve into a more core racing disciplined simulator and game.

An added enhancement, if even just a game mode, I'm sure every player of the GT series would like to see?
 
I suppose the short answer is to add in a section of real, serious, racing simulation. :D And with PD's partnership with FIA, a number of us are quite gung ho for this very thing.

I've become quite the evangelist for my GT Pro Mode, and it may take a bit to recompile what I envision this to be, so I'll come back later when I have the time to devote to it.
 
There's a really easy way to make GT6 closer to a racing simulator: release an update that makes all options available in all game modes (qualifying, standing starts, choose AI's cars, mechanical damage, fuel/tire wear, penalties, etc).

I imagine improving the AI can take some work but the stuff above should be easy to fix with an update.
 
Been meaning to get back to this thread. I'll go ahead and type, because I'm probably as ambitious as Kaz in this area.

Give Gran Turismo a third mode of play alongside Arcade and GT Modes: FIA GT PRO.

This would be an encapsulation of the motorsports world, giving you a chance to rise through the ranks like all the race car drivers of history did. I'll propose two ways to begin your career.

One, start rather like GT Mode does with a certain amount of cash to buy a new or used sports car to enter an enthusiast racing and motorcrossing group.

Two, begin with racing carts.

In both of those, you select a region you call home: Asia, Europe and America. This will affect the tracks you'll be racing on and the kinds of vehicles will be slanted towards those regions to an extent. License tests are involved. While some might want to use the License Test results from GT Mode, I think the new physics of a new GT game would make it a justified requirement. The usual bronze, silver and gold levels could be included, with rewards for getting higher levels either in cash and/or sponsor interest. Sponsorship should be a factor in GT Pro like it is in real world racing. A credit based economy, I'll get to in a bit.

Enter, and thus begins a racing season. A "season" consists of a series of races in which you race for points, finishing in a championship which gives more points, for a "wild card" player who isn't doing so well to still garner some standing in the ranks. The season at this level will be rather short, with fewer laps, say three to five laps or so, in five to seven races plush the championship. Bots will have names and racing personalities. You will be allowed to practice, then qualify for racing position. Races should begin with a standing start. The economy if it exists will be to support your car or cart. Damage must be repaired. In the case of car racing, upgrades could possibly be purchased, and sponsorship at this level would mean hefty discounts, especially with good position in the ranks. You also get cool vinyl logo stickers to place on your car. Finish the season with enough points, and proceed to more advanced racing. Optionally, you can re-enter the season as reigning champion and defend your title next season. At any point in the ladder, you can re-enter the season as many times as you want.

The economy would also figure in to moving to the next level, an SCCA-like semi-pro to professional racing group with several ways to go and grow your career. Pay a fee to enter. If you didn't finish well enough in your car or carting season, you could pay a fee to be accepted as a provisional racer. License Test again, with the same potentials as before. Pass, and you select from a few low level options, such as the Miata Cup Series of one make races, or something with some variety in moderately powered race modified sports cars like the Ford Focus, Honda Civic or Nissan 240SX, around 160hp or so. With an economy, you would have to buy the car and hire a mechanic. You get to design a livery for your car. Proceed to racing. The season is a little longer, the races a few more laps, and the challenge is a bit higher. Depending on your performance, the sponsors will provide equipment or even pay you a tidy sum. Finish well enough, and proceed to the next series and season.

These are more competitive with higher powered cars: Ford Mustang, BMW 320i, Honda S2000, Nissan 300ZX and the like. Sponsorship is more lucrative, the liveries more flamboyant, the bots slightly more aggressive. You now have a pit crew. The season is longer, and so are the races: 7 to 10 laps, and 10 races to the championship. You begin racing at night.

Advance to something serious, the world of FIA motorsports. Begin at GT4 level with some more serious racing machines, and work your way up through a few seasons to to GT1, where you'll be racing the likes of Aston Martins, BMWs, Jaguars, Ferraris, Ford GTs and Saleens among others. In Asia, you'll be racing Honda NSXs, Cizeta, Spirras, Supras and the like. You will have more night racing and may have to deal with weather.

Graduate from this into high level motorsports in a wide variety of classes: NASCAR, USCC (formerly American LeMans Seris), WRC rally, FIA Touring Car again, Super GT, a fantasy Asia GT, Australian V8 Supercars, Formula GT and anything Kaz wants to include. Change leagues with a racing test, and have at it... master them all! :D

Some sort of format like this is what I want to see in GT7. It has plenty of room to be tweaked and massaged, but something like this would keep many of us racing for years, until other games or the next GT lure us away. If Kaz did this though, I'd happily camp out in GT Land unless some amazing racer came along, like another P CARS or a serious Forza. But this would make me right happy.

Edit: one quick addition. I would like an Event Maker to be detailed enough to recreate one of these racing seasons down to the flag marshalls. 100 races would be a little crazy, but it shouldn't be out of the question if you really want that, though 50 plus a championship should be entirely doable. Where to put it though? If something that serious is a bit too simmish for GT Mode, maybe it should be stuck in GT Pro as an option.
 
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Wow Ten D, you got it all figured out.

All I want to know is if you have your application in over at PD.
Racing Game Designer Extraordinaire.

Just for my part you can drop the Karts, I would rather start in a low car class.
Otherwise it sounds pretty good, as long as I keep the realist side of me at bay.
 
SuperCobraJet
Wow Ten D, you got it all figured out.

All I want to know is if you have your application in over at PD.
Racing Game Designer Extraordinaire.

Just for my part you can drop the Karts, I would rather start in a low car class.
Otherwise it sounds pretty good, as long as I keep the realist side of me at bay.
Click to expand...
I think he's just been cruising the Project Cars Forum. It's almost a copy/paste of the PCars career mode without the economy part although I'm quite certain he'll never admit it:lol:.
 
You can't get into the P CARS forums. I still have only the foggiest idea what a P CARS career even is. And GRID is just Toca but smaller and more focused.

Besides, this is just a slightly more mature concept of what I had in 2005. :sly:

Quick add: I'm not fond of Karts either, but that's how a lot of racers get started. And it does have its fans here. So, option.

As one more quick thought, it sounds like I propose all races begin with standing starts above. But a lot of racing in all levels begins with either standing or rolling starts, so I would amend that line.

One MORE quick thought: the drift and touge fans are probably thinking, "What about us?" Pardon my bias. :P Still, thinking about it, I would rather that be in Arcade and GT Mode because I'd rather GT Pro be more about racing. And really, I can't see the average gamer wanting to do 35 drift and touge events in a row...

I'd sure love to work on game design at PD, but my resume... I'm a freaking bureaucrat! Of course, that might be a positive in a Japanese culture... hmm...
 
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Tenacious D
You can't get into the P CARS forums. I still have only the foggiest idea what a P CARS career even is. And GRID is just Toca but smaller and more focused.

Besides, this is just a slightly more mature concept of what I had in 2005. :sly:
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More mature?..... Hmmm.
OK, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Tenacious D
I'd sure love to work on game design at PD, but my resume... I'm a freaking bureaucrat!
Click to expand...

Oh no!
Probably not very helpful.

Tenacious D
Of course, that might be a positive in a Japanese culture... hmm...
Click to expand...

Could be, but it looks like Kaz has too many of them already. :lol:
 
SuperCobraJet
Could be, but it looks like Kaz has too many (bureaucrats) already. :lol:
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Tou - che. ;) Besides, all I can put on my resume is, "Writer with a number of online followers, artist, I think a lot, and I'm one of Gran Turismo's biggest fans." Yeah, high talent prospect here... :P

There is one thing about designing a racing game, and that's the fact that you can only do so much with the concept of a car going faster than other cars around a track. You can base it strictly on a league format (Toca, GRID, the GTRs, Formula 1 games), or fantasy it up (Gran Turismo, Forza, NFS etc). Within that, you can play around some, but it's not easy to do something groundbreaking in this genre. I wouldn't be surprised if Project CARS is Toca with some Forza thrown in. Depending on what they do with it, it could be good, or it could be fantastic.

The one thing that's bold in my proposal is that it's the most ambitious attempt to squeeze in the entire racing world from grass roots to Formula 1. Advantage Gran Turismo: much of these assets are in the GT series already. Many of the cars are in the game, some of the tracks. To realize it properly, Kaz has to have the team do a number of things:
  • Begin with the goal in mind at the very start, which is have a number of racing leagues at all levels well represented in the game in all aspects; leagues, cars and racing teams, tracks, rules, etc. Structure the plan so that it has definite schedules and milestones.
  • Start work so that each league has the assets necessary to sensibly represent it: cars/teams, tracks, etc. When a team or track can't be licensed, then work around it with assets available in GT, such as fantasy tracks, fantasy teams and liveries, etc.
  • If a league can't be licensed, produce a fantasy version like Formula GT. Create leagues anyway when one is lacking, like the Asia GT league I'd like to see, so that those Cizetas and Spirras among others will have a chance to race.
So for example Kaz wants American LeMans racing included. Decide how long a racing season is, and see how many locations can be licensed, and short of that, how many would work as an American environ. Try to license Road America, Road Atlanta, Virginia International Raceway, Infineon/Sears Point and so on. Seattle would be rather strange, but it could work. Midfield would work as an American track, so would Red Rock Valley, Apricot Hill and a few others. Whip up some more original locations to flesh out the track list, so that with a racing season of say 35 races, you aren't going to the same five tracks seven times. Which is what I went through in Forza 2, and that got old quick, and I'm sure the Forza 5 fans are hating that short track list too. Then make sure that you produce enough ALMS race cars to flesh out the field with NO DUPLICATES. So if 24 cars on track are finalized in GT7, produce at least 24 ALMS-specced race cars, and there are a lot of cars in GT already that would work: Ford GTs, Saleen S7, Aston Martins, Jaguars, Ferraris, RUFs (or Porsche), Corvettes, etc. Produce fantasy racers like the Ford GT LM II to fill out the stable.

The same thing for WTCC. License race locations like Hockenheim. Select European style courses in GT now, such as Trial Mountain, and create more. There are a whole gob of cars that would suit WTCC racing from various eras, so use them. I'm sure they could come up with far more than 24 cars from the GT stable.

There are a lot of rally tracks and a lot of rally cars in the Gran Turismo legacy. Add them, touch them up and use them, then get more.

Give us Race Mod and Livery Editor so we can create our own race cars suited to the specs of the leagues in GT7, as well as those we create ourselves. I want GT7 to be all about community features and user creation, and along with user created cars and Course Maker tracks, leagues should be a part of that.

I know Johnnypenso had very little respect for this suggestion when I first made it, because it is a lot of work. If you insist that all the race cars be Premium, it sure would be, but if some of those cars and tracks were Superstandards, that should be enough for most of us. I don't recall anyone complaining about the low poly car models in GRID Autosport, for instance. And all the cars should be compatible with the Livery Editor. This would still be a lot of work, but should be doable. Still, we're all familiar with how schedules slip for not just PD, but everyone, so if something isn't quite ready for GT7 when it ships, keep working on it and patch it in when it's done. I'd rather wait for ALMS/USCC league racing than not have it till GT8.
 
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Tenacious D
Tou - che. ;) Besides, all I can put on my resume is, "Writer with a number of online followers, artist, I think a lot, and I'm one of Gran Turismo's biggest fans." Yeah, high talent prospect here... :P
Click to expand...

I have to admit that resume does look pretty skimpy, for "Racing Game Designer Extraordinaire".
Perhaps you should just send Kaz your outline for the game.
No need to show that resume card until you have too.

Tenacious D
The one thing that's bold in my proposal is that it's the most ambitious attempt to squeeze in the entire racing world from grass roots to Formula 1.
Click to expand...

Considering you are advocating that PD actually make this, I think that maybe the under statement of the century.

Tenacious D
Advantage Gran Turismo: much of these assets are in the GT series already. Many of the cars are in the game, some of the tracks. To realize it properly, Kaz has to have the team do a number of things:
  • Begin with the goal in mind at the very start, which is have a number of racing leagues at all levels well represented in the game in all aspects; leagues, cars and racing teams, tracks, rules, etc. Structure the plan so that it has definite schedules and milestones.
  • Start work so that each league has the assets necessary to sensibly represent it: cars/teams, tracks, etc. When a team or track can't be licensed, then work around it with assets available in GT, such as fantasy tracks, fantasy teams and liveries, etc.
  • If a league can't be licensed, produce a fantasy version like Formula GT. Create leagues anyway when one is lacking, like the Asia GT league I'd like to see, so that those Cizetas and Spirras among others will have a chance to race.
So for example Kaz wants American LeMans racing included. Decide how long a racing season is, and see how many locations can be licensed, and short of that, how many would work as an American environ. Try to license Road America, Road Atlanta, Virginia International Raceway, Infineon/Sears Point and so on. Seattle would be rather strange, but it could work. Midfield would work as an American track, so would Red Rock Valley, Apricot Hill and a few others. Whip up some more original locations to flesh out the track list, so that with a racing season of say 35 races, you aren't going to the same five tracks seven times. Which is what I went through in Forza 2, and that got old quick, and I'm sure the Forza 5 fans are hating that short track list too. Then make sure that you produce enough ALMS race cars to flesh out the field with NO DUPLICATES. So if 24 cars on track are finalized in GT7, produce at least 24 ALMS-specced race cars, and there are a lot of cars in GT already that would work: Ford GTs, Saleen S7, Aston Martins, Jaguars, Ferraris, RUFs (or Porsche), Corvettes, etc. Produce fantasy racers like the Ford GT LM II to fill out the stable.

The same thing for WTCC. License race locations like Hockenheim. Select European style courses in GT now, such as Trial Mountain, and create more. There are a whole gob of cars that would suit WTCC racing from various eras, so use them. I'm sure they could come up with far more than 24 cars from the GT stable.

There are a lot of rally tracks and a lot of rally cars in the Gran Turismo legacy. Add them, touch them up and use them, then get more.

Give us Race Mod and Livery Editor so we can create our own race cars suited to the specs of the leagues in GT7, as well as those we create ourselves. I want GT7 to be all about community features and user creation, and along with user created cars and Course Maker tracks, leagues should be a part of that.

I know Johnnypenso had very little respect for this suggestion when I first made it, because it is a lot of work. If you insist that all the race cars be Premium, it sure would be, but if some of those cars and tracks were Superstandards, that should be enough for most of us. I don't recall anyone complaining about the low poly car models in GRID Autosport, for instance. And all the cars should be compatible with the Livery Editor. This would still be a lot of work, but should be doable. Still, we're all familiar with how schedules slip for not just PD, but everyone, so if something isn't quite ready for GT7 when it ships, keep working on it and patch it in when it's done. I'd rather wait for ALMS/USCC league racing than not have it till GT8.
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Doable for who, Bethesda?
You are talking about PD here.
Even for an incurable optimist such as yourself, surly you realize the odds of PD making this are about the same as you winning the mega million lottery.
Probably higher.

If that wasn't enough, its completely outside their usual structure.
Hey, it may be a great idea for a game but as I said in my first comment, I have to wall off the realist in me, to imagine it could be a GT game.
 
I'm aware that we're discussing PD, but as I said above, some of what I want is more or less in place. While cars from leagues like the BTCC and WTCC aren't in the game yet, the cars are. Some of the tracks are. I think the main hurdle is the track list, and with all the tracks in the game, realizing some league racing will require quite a few more. One thing many of us are looking forward to is what the new Course Maker is capable of, as Zahara looks pretty sweet. And more than likely, PD has more advanced tools than we'll be getting in Course Maker II. Yes, these will be fantasy tracks, but I like their fantasy tracks. Suppose their tools can easily rework the legacy locations from past GT games. I want those tracks, a lot of us do, and more tracks are always better.

And while this is outside of their usual structure, Gran Turismo is a game series with a lot of "firsts." They had the first real Race Mod system in GT1 and 2. They gave us nitrous in GT4. They added in drifting with GT5 Prologue. They produced Weather and time of day transitions in GT5. Add to this a partnership with FIA itself. On top of that, Kaz went on to seek out motorsports people from across the planet.

Something will come of this. Whatever it is, I'm looking forward to it with great anticipation.
 
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GT1 and 2 had a race mod..... What do you mean on that?

But I agree, there have been a lot of firsts with GT, and it's still growing and improving!
 
Oh jeepers, typing too fast this morning after waking up... corrected. :P

I know that my dream for Gran Turismo is mega-ambitious, but we have to want this kind of thing to get it sooner. People wanted NOS and drifting in Gran Turismo forever. We got nitrous in GT4, and drifting in Prologue.

With Kaz being a pro-level race car driver for years now, and a good one, I have little doubt that he's going to try to put something like this in GT7. Maybe it'll be baby steps again, and be something like what's in Toca or Project CARS. But whatever it is will be the foundation for more stuff to come. I suspect that GT7 is going to be even more modular than GT6 is, and some of those DLC modules are going to be racing league stuff, perhaps whole "mini" seasons in entire leagues which I very much want to see.

Like I keep saying, while we don't have the track situation sorted just yet, we have the car assets all over GT6 just waiting to be built up into entire racing leagues. And with GT6 holding the promise yet to come of club and league builder tools, I can only imagine that something meaningful is coming this year.
 
Tenacious D
Been meaning to get back to this thread. I'll go ahead and type, because I'm probably as ambitious as Kaz in this area.

Give Gran Turismo a third mode of play alongside Arcade and GT Modes: FIA GT PRO.

This would be an encapsulation of the motorsports world, giving you a chance to rise through the ranks like all the race car drivers of history did. I'll propose two ways to begin your career.

One, start rather like GT Mode does with a certain amount of cash to buy a new or used sports car to enter an enthusiast racing and motorcrossing group.

Two, begin with racing carts.

In both of those, you select a region you call home: Asia, Europe and America. This will affect the tracks you'll be racing on and the kinds of vehicles will be slanted towards those regions to an extent. License tests are involved. While some might want to use the License Test results from GT Mode, I think the new physics of a new GT game would make it a justified requirement. The usual bronze, silver and gold levels could be included, with rewards for getting higher levels either in cash and/or sponsor interest. Sponsorship should be a factor in GT Pro like it is in real world racing. A credit based economy, I'll get to in a bit.

Enter, and thus begins a racing season. A "season" consists of a series of races in which you race for points, finishing in a championship which gives more points, for a "wild card" player who isn't doing so well to still garner some standing in the ranks. The season at this level will be rather short, with fewer laps, say three to five laps or so, in five to seven races plush the championship. Bots will have names and racing personalities. You will be allowed to practice, then qualify for racing position. Races should begin with a standing start. The economy if it exists will be to support your car or cart. Damage must be repaired. In the case of car racing, upgrades could possibly be purchased, and sponsorship at this level would mean hefty discounts, especially with good position in the ranks. You also get cool vinyl logo stickers to place on your car. Finish the season with enough points, and proceed to more advanced racing. Optionally, you can re-enter the season as reigning champion and defend your title next season. At any point in the ladder, you can re-enter the season as many times as you want.

The economy would also figure in to moving to the next level, an SCCA-like semi-pro to professional racing group with several ways to go and grow your career. Pay a fee to enter. If you didn't finish well enough in your car or carting season, you could pay a fee to be accepted as a provisional racer. License Test again, with the same potentials as before. Pass, and you select from a few low level options, such as the Miata Cup Series of one make races, or something with some variety in moderately powered race modified sports cars like the Ford Focus, Honda Civic or Nissan 240SX, around 160hp or so. With an economy, you would have to buy the car and hire a mechanic. You get to design a livery for your car. Proceed to racing. The season is a little longer, the races a few more laps, and the challenge is a bit higher. Depending on your performance, the sponsors will provide equipment or even pay you a tidy sum. Finish well enough, and proceed to the next series and season.

These are more competitive with higher powered cars: Ford Mustang, BMW 320i, Honda S2000, Nissan 300ZX and the like. Sponsorship is more lucrative, the liveries more flamboyant, the bots slightly more aggressive. You now have a pit crew. The season is longer, and so are the races: 7 to 10 laps, and 10 races to the championship. You begin racing at night.

Advance to something serious, the world of FIA motorsports. Begin at GT4 level with some more serious racing machines, and work your way up through a few seasons to to GT1, where you'll be racing the likes of Aston Martins, BMWs, Jaguars, Ferraris, Ford GTs and Saleens among others. In Asia, you'll be racing Honda NSXs, Cizeta, Spirras, Supras and the like. You will have more night racing and may have to deal with weather.

Graduate from this into high level motorsports in a wide variety of classes: NASCAR, USCC (formerly American LeMans Seris), WRC rally, FIA Touring Car again, Super GT, a fantasy Asia GT, Australian V8 Supercars, Formula GT and anything Kaz wants to include. Change leagues with a racing test, and have at it... master them all! :D

Some sort of format like this is what I want to see in GT7. It has plenty of room to be tweaked and massaged, but something like this would keep many of us racing for years, until other games or the next GT lure us away. If Kaz did this though, I'd happily camp out in GT Land unless some amazing racer came along, like another P CARS or a serious Forza. But this would make me right happy.

Edit: one quick addition. I would like an Event Maker to be detailed enough to recreate one of these racing seasons down to the flag marshalls. 100 races would be a little crazy, but it shouldn't be out of the question if you really want that, though 50 plus a championship should be entirely doable. Where to put it though? If something that serious is a bit too simmish for GT Mode, maybe it should be stuck in GT Pro as an option.
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As awesome as that sound Mr D. All of it is void with GTs pathetic AI
 
SuperCobraJet
Doable for who, Bethesda?
You are talking about PD here.
Even for an incurable optimist such as yourself, surly you realize the odds of PD making this are about the same as you winning the mega million lottery.
Probably higher.

If that wasn't enough, its completely outside their usual structure.
Hey, it may be a great idea for a game but as I said in my first comment, I have to wall off the realist in me, to imagine it could be a GT game.
Click to expand...

Well, they could promise it, like they do so many other features. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Tenacious D
Something will come of this. Whatever it is, I'm looking forward to it with great anticipation.
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I agree, something will come of it, but it is most likely to be a token feature.

Even though I realize for you, it is "mission impossible", history shows that you may want to be a little more cautious on the anticipation.
 
Hey, should the sound addicts asking for a thousand new car recordings be cautious? Should I likewise pounce every sound thread, saying, "Dream on, hopeless beggars?" ;)

It's a funny place around here, because what's dear to some people's hearts, like sounds for many, are hammered relentlessly, but other subjects get ice water dumped on them. The point of these threads is to ask Kaz for goodies, to dialog with The Man and see if we can get him to shape Gran Turismo to be the game we all want. I'm asking so that PD knows what some of us want, but really, I think this is what Kaz himself wants because he's been in the middle of the storm of racing, which very few game developers can say. I want to be a part of shaping Gran Turismo's development, to let Kaz know that we want him to continue that dialog with racing groups all across the globe and bring as much of that into the game as PD can. In particular, I'm responding to @Lawndart 's invitation in this thread. I'm hoping he adds in his two lugnuts at some point.

Maybe you guys could contribute to the thread...?
 
Just to add my two lugnuts worth. As I prefer touring cars, it would be nice to have different levels without having to step up to higher performance cars.
You could have a BTCC style championship where you start at novice, your success could bring sponsorship, better engines etc after or during the championship. When done you could progress to intermediate but still be BTCC.
 
SJC ALPHA
Just to add my two lugnuts worth. As I prefer touring cars, it would be nice to have different levels without having to step up to higher performance cars.
You could have a BTCC style championship where you start at novice, your success could bring sponsorship, better engines etc after or during the championship. When done you could progress to intermediate but still be BTCC.
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This is pretty much how it works in Grid Autosport. Start in slower cars in slower Touring cars and move up within the particular level to better teams, then move up to faster divisions. I find it works quite well and at the same time you can move around between disciplines when you want a change of pace.
 
Tenacious D
Should I likewise pounce every sound thread, saying, "Dream on, hopeless beggars?" ;)
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My interpretation is more like "wake up" not "dream on".
But nevermind about that.
There is an established, long term, vast majority, solid as a rock, legitimate footing on the sound issue.
Much more than a "goody" as you refer to it below.

Tenacious D
It's a funny place around here, because what's dear to some people's hearts, like sounds for many, are hammered relentlessly, but other subjects get ice water dumped on them.
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You seem surprised repeatedly at the realities of exchange in a forum enviroment.
At this point you are certainly no noobie to the process.

Tenacious D
The point of these threads is to ask Kaz for goodies, to dialog with The Man and see if we can get him to shape Gran Turismo to be the game we all want. I'm asking so that PD knows what some of us want, but really, I think this is what Kaz himself wants because he's been in the middle of the storm of racing, which very few game developers can say. I want to be a part of shaping Gran Turismo's development, to let Kaz know that we want him to continue that dialog with racing groups all across the globe and bring as much of that into the game as PD can.
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As far as all that goes I think you have undoubtedly, and at length, made your wishes known.
I'm not faulting you for it. I think as you point out, you should bring it forward and make it known.
However, in light of the real history here, I'm not naive enough to say, "Oh wow I'm sure it will be in GT7."
Even if thats what you want to hear, I have to be more honest than that.
Referring back to the sound issue, it has been ongoing without change through six installments.
Not a track record that inspires overwhelming confidence. PD has just recently acknowledged it.

Tenacious D
In particular, I'm responding to @Lawndart 's invitation in this thread. I'm hoping he adds in his two lugnuts at some point.

Maybe you guys could contribute to the thread...?
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Now that you mention it, I believe I will.

Do I have a desire to see GT evolve into a more core racing disciplined simulator and game?
The short answer is, no I don't.
As a game mode perhaps, yes I would.
To clarify, what I mean is, I do not wish to see the original concept structure, replaced or diminished in any way.
Rather I would prefer to see it be refined, improved and expanded upon as the primary objective.
Secondary, would be expansion of the racing sim side.
 
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No need to respond to everything, but a couple...

SuperCobraJet
I'm not naive enough to say, "Oh wow I'm sure it will be in GT7."
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Well, I haven't said that either. What I did do is lay out the points to indicate it's within the realm of possibility. And it may be well within. A lot of assets necessary for some of the leagues are in GT already. Of course getting all of my dreams fulfilled will require some three hundred cars or so SuperStandardized at least, and a lot more track locations modeled.

Referring back to the sound issue, it has been ongoing without change through six installments.
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Oh really... ;)







Now if you mean we've wanted perfect sound for six games, that's a completely different story. And a completely differently worded position. Yes, some cars still stink, but a lot of cars in GT5 and 6 sound pretty good. The old vacuum cleaner / hair dryer / weed eater / pencil sharpener / mad gerbil / same harfy tire sounds as GT1 / whatever meme, is long out of date. They clearly have been working on things since 2005.

Do I have a desire to see GT evolve into a more core racing disciplined simulator and game?
The short answer is, no I don't.
As a game mode perhaps, yes I would.
To clarify, what I mean is, I do not wish to see the original concept structure, replaced or diminished in any way.
Rather I would prefer to see it be refined, improved and expanded upon as the primary objective.
Secondary, would be expansion of the racing sim side.
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We might be on the same page then. 👍
 
Tenacious D
No need to respond to everything, but a couple...

Well, I haven't said that either. What I did do is lay out the points to indicate it's within the realm of possibility. And it may be well within. A lot of assets necessary for some of the leagues are in GT already. Of course getting all of my dreams fulfilled will require some three hundred cars or so SuperStandardized at least, and a lot more track locations modeled.
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Anything is possible, like an alien spacecraft landing and abducting everyone at PD.
Oh my, what would we do then?
Probabilities are in another realm.
Tenacious D
Now if you mean we've wanted perfect sound for six games, that's a completely different story. And a completely differently worded position. Yes, some cars still stink, but a lot of cars in GT5 and 6 sound pretty good. The old vacuum cleaner / hair dryer / weed eater / pencil sharpener / mad gerbil / same harfy tire sounds as GT1 / whatever meme, is long out of date. They clearly have been working on things since 2005.
Click to expand...

I think you got it backwards.
Most cars still stink, and a few sound better than them.
Oh, and don't put racing exhaust on the "better thans" otherwise "poof", there goes your decent sound.
Similar to "possibilities" and "probabilities", are "working on" and "accomplishing".

Tenacious D
We might be on the same page then. 👍
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Truly amazing. :boggled: A patch of common ground.
Perhaps there is more in possibility, than I thought. :lol:
 
SuperCobraJet
Anything is possible, like an alien spacecraft landing and abducting everyone at PD.
Oh my, what would we do then?
Probabilities are in another realm.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that the things TenD refers to as possible, have been possible for GT5 and GT6. Coding up some real life mimicking race series is not difficult, nor is developing a comprehensive career mode that mimics real life, yet it hasn't been done to this point, nor has PD ever, to my knowledge, ever expressed any interest in approaching that level of racing simulation. I hope they look into it for GT7, but it would be a complete surprise to me if they moved in that direction. That's why I'm hoping for a direct and comprehensive answer to my question in the Kaz Forum, when he finally gets down the list a bit..in a few months...:lol:
 
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