The speedometer in this game is oh so very wrong :(

[Mixs]

If an AWD car is up against a wall (stationary) with all wheels spinning, how would the car ever know that it is, in fact, not moving?

The engine is spinning transferring power to the transmission which rotates the wheels. Every mechanical part of the car relating to movement is spinning.

As far as the car is concerned it is moving?

Am I completely off here?

Edit:
I suppose you can relate it to the car being on a dyno. The car thinks it's moving and the speedometer will show the speed.

 

[Fonzdaii]

When at 45 degrees, if what you say is true, then you should get 70.710678118654752440084436210485 mph lol [speed * cos(drift angle)]

But anyway, I don't think it's confusing as is. You shouldn't be sliding that much in a race, and personally, I'm not always staring at the speedometer. After a while, you get a feel for when you're going too fast/slow.

You said it best!

I don't look at speed that much either. It's all about RPM and feeling the car

 

[Cocomoto]

I can't believe i'm reading this...

And what it will change to you ? Even real speedometers are 100% acurrated. But in the game it shoes the speed the cars is moving, and THAT is what reallly matters, doesn't matter if it is based on the wheel speed, gear engaged + engine rotation, or anything else.

For God's sake.

 

[Topsu]

What would you do with the knowledge of your speed if you are going very fast and sideways?

 

[Flyojumper]

Also, you need to stop double and triple-posting. There's rules against that here. Use the EDIT button to add text after making a post. The only time you get to make another post is if it's (1) been 24 hours since your last post (and nobody else has replied) or (2) somebody else posted after you.

If you see two posts of mine in a row in this thread that's only because someone replied to the thread in the time I was writing my reply to the first person, and I'd rather not edit my first post in that case to avoid people thinking I'm changing the content of my post.

lol. wtf?
so you want to want know how much your wheel is spinning opposed to how fast your car is going??
aren't real cars supposed to show 0 when your just spinning your tires against a wall?!?!?!?! of course your speedo is going to indicate 0 if you're going nowhere!

Yet another person who barely (or not at all) skims the thread and make an inflammatory response when his point has been addressed before... The current speedo is NOT showing you how fast the car is going, it is merely showing you how fast your are moving towards the point your hood is facing, two very different things and that measurement is entirely arbitrary. GT 1-3 had an accurate GPS style speedo that actually showed you true car movement speed. And no, I'm not merely looking for them to make the speedo realistic, but as it is it's neither realistic NOR accurate. Also if you tire spin a real car against a wall, the speedo will NOT stay at 0, so you are wrong there.

Time for a multi-quoted novel to sum up this thread of absolute 🤬 garbage!!

Great way to start a coherent post, especially when later on you agree with its core content (my post was to indicate that the speedometer in the game is wrong, you agreed to that later on, so even if you don't like the way I'm presenting it, it is a gameplay fact that the great majority of people here seem to not know about and isn't "absolute garbage")

Your Gold on IC-10 with a DS3 is nothing, I did that myself and there wasn't anything too extreme with that test.....try winning the TG Lotus challenge with all aids off and see how you go there.

Way to read the thread... I already explained that I only brought up that fact to defend myself against someone belittling my argument by implying I was a poor driver.
(also golding IC-10 with a DS3 and golding it with a DS3 and with abs off is very different on that particular test)

The next thing they will be whinging about is that one of the trees at the Nurburgring somewhere near the karousel has a brown leaf and it's distracting how they drive. Totally agree with the last bit though, unless you can create something better be satisfied with what you have been given, period.

And MY post is garbage? You are comparing a purely cosmetic detail on a background item to a core gameplay tool (whether you like it or not speedometers are as old as racing games are) that make speed comparisons in turns (in game or most likely during replays) completely useless. Also the "don't complain with something unless you create the same item better" is complete nonsense and could be applied to 99.9% of constructive criticism in the world. I suppose I'll never see you criticize any movie, game, book, politician, item build quality, etc... because you haven't made one yourself? Please stop the hypocrisy.

First off, telling a mod to go and re-read an initial post is a bad idea in any sense, especially when it's niky who actually reads everything to the most minute detail!!

Mod or not, I did reply his very question in my very first post in the thread, and before it was edited. The game doesn't use GPS style reading like GT1-3 and neither an off the wheel reading, but a new way of measuring speed towards the direction your hood is facing.

Now as for your comment about GT5's speedo:
No it doesn't....if it's off a transmission the speedo will not move, nor if it's off a non-driven wheel.

Even if a real car's speedo is off the transmission, if the wheels are moving the real car speedo will not stay at 0... If the wheels are spinning the transmission is doing its job and the car has no way of knowing whether it's moving or not short of using a GPS system.

Now this bit I DO agree with you. It's been this way since GT4 and is a real annoyance that it's measuring off the forward directional speed. I'm a fan of drifting and powersliding, and in GT5 when you are faced 90* to the corner going around the technical section at Toscana and you see 0-20km/h as you're sideways through the corner when you know you were doing 140km/h when you went into the powerslide makes it very hard to judge. Not impossible mind you, but it is difficult. However, for me personally, 5 years of putting up with it in GT4 has made me used to it and I get around this issue with no worries now.

So you agree that my complaint is valid and can be an annoyance to gameplay yet you thrash my thread as "absolute garbage" when that's the only point I was trying to make when I started the thread? Good for you that you got used to that but a kink in the system is a kink in the system, no matter how old. If GT1-3 did it right and were perfectly accurate (if unrealistic), I don't see why they used this arbitrary system of speed measurement that is NEITHER realistic NOR accurate.

I can't believe i'm reading this...
And what it will change to you ? Even real speedometers are 100% acurrated. But in the game it shoes the speed the cars is moving, and THAT is what reallly matters, doesn't matter if it is based on the wheel speed, gear engaged + engine rotation, or anything else.
For God's sake.

Yay, another user who fails to see what I was saying in my very first message. GT5 is NOT showing you the speed at which your car is moving. GT1-3 did, but GT5 doesn't. If you slide your car sideways you are still moving forward but GT5 will display a speed of 0. Same thing, but to a lesser extent at ANY angle from 1-90 degrees. It is not the car's movement speed.

What would you do with the knowledge of your speed if you are going very fast and sideways?

As I said in a previous message, I personally use my replays as a tool to see how much "fat" I had in each turn and what I could theoretically get on a best lap if all my turns were perfect. Short of a split time between every turn (which we do not have), a comparison of the speedometer during the turn will let me know if I went faster on that turn in replay #2 compared to replay #1, etc...

 

[marsden1002]

nearly ever car gets the speed from the gearbox or another moving part.

I can (in my Lexus IS200) spin the wheels to death and reads what ever speed the wheels are spinning, not how fast the car is "moving". Also, car speedo's are not 100% accurate, they are built with a slight inaccuracy which i think is a couple of %.

I agree with the problem, as you can't be in 3rd gear doing 5500RPM and only be 10MPH. This game has always been called "the real driving simulator" so if its "dubbed" as that, then it has to be as real as possible. I would prefer for the speedo to show the "real" speed, it the one that the driving wheels are doing, not the actual speed of the car.

 

[mwoodski]

I agree with the problem, as you can't be in 3rd gear doing 5500RPM and only be 10MPH.

Sure you can, if you're got a munched clutch, haha.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Fact is, GT5 gets he wrong speed info. Its called "The Real Driving Simulator", so it should be accurate.

I'm assuming the game is aware of full vehicle telemetry, PD simply need to know where the speed is measured for a given car then tell the game "For car x, read speed from y" where y might be front wheels, rear wheels, averaged speed, whatever. The game will know what each of those speeds are at any given time for use in the physics engine, and so it SHOULD be displaying the correct (ie. real life) speed of the car at any given time.

I dont really see any 2 ways around it, regardless of where a car measures its speed, GT5 isn't measuring it correctly when it should be measuring it correctly.

Whether or not you think its a big problem is up to you. If you'd rather see the wrong speed, there should be an option for you. But I dont see how you can argue that GT5 should be showing anything other than the speed measured from where it is measured on the real car, and I dont see how its a big deal to implement the correct speed either.

I dont see why this is such a big argument.

 

[nickg07]

I agree with the op. The game is wrong and does need some tlc. To those trying to downplay the issue and being abusive shame on you. Just because you don't care about realism and what feels right doesn't mean it doesn't need fixing. I bet those of you ho don't give a rats @$$ don't drive irl

 

[Spiderman_Geek]

Wow, some people have no lives.


I never even look at my speed. As long as I'm catching up or staying ahead of my opponents, that's all that matters.

I always keep an eye on my tach and my sector times.. never the speedo.

 

[HuskyGT]

Did´nt really noticed... Don´t care either. What it bothers me is that the Viper´s speedometer tops at 200 KM/H. Probably they thought that the big numbers where in KM/H when they are acctually in MP/H. Its funny because it looks like a JDM speedometer that maxes out when the car does´nt even reach half its top speed.

 

[SavageEvil]

Ok after reading all these posts and comments, I have come to the understanding that this would seem to confuse a lot of people. In an actual car when you are sliding, your speedometer will not give you the correct speed you are traveling at to begin with if it is reading from the driven wheels(wheel spin would give a much higher speed, who is that helping?). Speedometers in cars are wholly inaccurate to begin with, there is always a percentage of it reading higher or lower than actual speed(depending on wheel size). Drifting is great to do, but watching the speedometer is actually the worst thing to do, it never gives you an accurate reading, the best reading you have is what your body takes in from the visual and physical. Speedometer is useful when you approach, but after that it goes out the window, if you ever driven a car at beyond highway speeds you would know that it's not easy to glance at the speedometer, with drifting it's even harder as you are doing something that the car isn't supposed to be doing(driving at slip angles) therefore requiring even more attention. What is happening on your dash is of little help to what's happening with your car at that point in time.

I rarely if ever look at the speedometer, unless I am on a straight and wanted to know how fast I was going, or when I'm braking for a corner and mid way corner speeds after that it's full attention to the road to set up my line for the next corner and successive corners after that.

Question is if it was measured the way you want it, how does that help you when drifting? Since your drive wheels will be giving you fluctuating speeds because of throttle input. This is what I really want clarified, as when I drive it's visual and feel and when I slide sometimes, I usually want to remove that from my driving as it causes a pause in throttle as i have to wait for the wheels to regain some grip and that calculates into lost time.

 

[Spiderman_Geek]

I'm sure it was mentioned, but didn't bother reading.

Take NASCAR cars for example. Stock cars don't have speedometers, just Tachometers. They determine speed by RPM. This is why they have Pace cars.

 

[Jdm-Integra-R]

the reason your reading 50mph sideways when going 100mph is that your not going fast enough yo, let VTEC kick in and you should ready 100mph sideways 👍

 

[WolfRacer543]

Ok after reading all these posts and comments, I have come to the understanding that this would seem to confuse a lot of people. In an actual car when you are sliding, your speedometer will not give you the correct speed you are traveling at to begin with if it is reading from the driven wheels(wheel spin would give a much higher speed, who is that helping?). Speedometers in cars are wholly inaccurate to begin with, there is always a percentage of it reading higher or lower than actual speed(depending on wheel size). Drifting is great to do, but watching the speedometer is actually the worst thing to do, it never gives you an accurate reading, the best reading you have is what your body takes in from the visual and physical. Speedometer is useful when you approach, but after that it goes out the window, if you ever driven a car at beyond highway speeds you would know that it's not easy to glance at the speedometer, with drifting it's even harder as you are doing something that the car isn't supposed to be doing(driving at slip angles) therefore requiring even more attention. What is happening on your dash is of little help to what's happening with your car at that point in time.

I rarely if ever look at the speedometer, unless I am on a straight and wanted to know how fast I was going, or when I'm braking for a corner and mid way corner speeds after that it's full attention to the road to set up my line for the next corner and successive corners after that.

Question is if it was measured the way you want it, how does that help you when drifting? Since your drive wheels will be giving you fluctuating speeds because of throttle input. This is what I really want clarified, as when I drive it's visual and feel and when I slide sometimes, I usually want to remove that from my driving as it causes a pause in throttle as i have to wait for the wheels to regain some grip and that calculates into lost time.

I think you mean "high slip angles", as long as you're turning you're always driving at some slip angle, drifting is just driving at a slip angle beyond the optimum.

But anyway, I use the speedometer a lot in racing games. Maybe you guys are really good at predicting corner entry without it, I'm not. Sure, in real life go off the feel of it. The open wheeler race car I help develop in real life doesn't even have a speedo. It has a motec display capable of showing speed, but we never even bother programming it to read the speed because you never look at it when driving. (we do, of course, log wheel speeds at each individual wheel via hall effect sensors which we use to analyse vehicle telemetry after the car comes in, but nothing the driver himself can look at).

In a *game* however, I can't live without a speedo. Within a few laps I know not only the racing line through each corner but the ideal speed and adjust accordingly as I race. There's very little sense of speed in video games, so I need the speedo. I'm definitely not the fastest driver out there, but despite my requirement to have a working speedo I wouldn't consider myself slow, manage to keep up with the "average" drivers in Live for Speed and RACE/GTR Evo.

But all of that is immaterial. GT5 is wrong and it should be fixed... how high on the list of things that should be fixed is "speedometers" may vary from person to person, but I dont see how you can argue that its not something that is wrong and thus should be corrected.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

If you see two posts of mine in a row in this thread that's only because someone replied to the thread in the time I was writing my reply to the first person, and I'd rather not edit my first post in that case to avoid people thinking I'm changing the content of my post.

Okay, dude. I'm just telling you (nicely) how things work around here, but perhaps you'll eventually find out the hard way.

 

[Flyojumper]

Question is if it was measured the way you want it, how does that help you when drifting? Since your drive wheels will be giving you fluctuating speeds because of throttle input. This is what I really want clarified, as when I drive it's visual and feel and when I slide sometimes, I usually want to remove that from my driving as it causes a pause in throttle as i have to wait for the wheels to regain some grip and that calculates into lost time.

I've already stated this earlier in the thread but my personal preference would actually be to go back to the GPS style speed reading that we had in GT1-3. That one is perfectly accurate regarding the speed of the moving car. If they had to give that up, I'd be fine with it but I'd expect them to go with the realistic alternative which you describe (speedometer ties to tire rotation/transmission), which is true to real life but as you said can be inaccurate when wheel spins mid corners. But as it is, the big deal to me is that we get neither of those two options, we get a speedometer that is inaccurate when angles are involved and unrealistic, as I said earlier we get the worst of both worlds.

 

[SavageEvil]

I think you mean "high slip angles", as long as you're turning you're always driving at some slip angle, drifting is just driving at a slip angle beyond the optimum.

But anyway, I use the speedometer a lot in racing games. Maybe you guys are really good at predicting corner entry without it, I'm not. Sure, in real life go off the feel of it. The open wheeler race car I help develop in real life doesn't even have a speedo. It has a motec display capable of showing speed, but we never even bother programming it to read the speed because you never look at it when driving. (we do, of course, log wheel speeds at each individual wheel via hall effect sensors which we use to analyse vehicle telemetry after the car comes in, but nothing the driver himself can look at).

In a *game* however, I can't live without a speedo. Within a few laps I know not only the racing line through each corner but the ideal speed and adjust accordingly as I race. There's very little sense of speed in video games, so I need the speedo. I'm definitely not the fastest driver out there, but despite my requirement to have a working speedo I wouldn't consider myself slow, manage to keep up with the "average" drivers in Live for Speed and RACE/GTR Evo.

But all of that is immaterial. GT5 is wrong and it should be fixed... how high on the list of things that should be fixed is "speedometers" may vary from person to person, but I dont see how you can argue that its not something that is wrong and thus should be corrected.

Yea thanks on the high slip angle thing, I do use speedometer for corner entry speed and gauging how I am doing through a corner and exit speed, but it's not essential as when you get used to driving, you can do that by listening to the engine speed in the correct gear, which is how race driver do it(they only have tachometers).

I wouldn't say that GT5 does it wrong as some cars in real life the speedometer will read zero when you burnout, sure the wheels are spinning at a speed but the manufacturer thought it best that you only need know how fast you are going when you are actually moving.

If GT5 modeled each cars speedometer as it is in real life, we'd have another thread about this same thing just that some cars the speedometer doesn't move when I'm sliding so I can't tell how fast I'm going...the reply would be well that's just how this car is made live with it. That might consume extra ram that PS3 doesn't have to spare. PD just uses a global system as I think other game designers do as well, PD chose to use GPS directional based tracking which gives more accurate representation of speed.

Nothing is actually wrong with GT5 speedometer as it does what it is supposed to do, give you accurate reading of your cars' speed. Sliding and the like while fun to do, is completely detrimental to driving any slipping should be minimal and therefore when attempting to get faster while driving the OP is moot as this doesn't affect you when driving and utilizing all the grip your tires have. Slides if ever have to very brief as when you have no grip in your drive wheels, then you are not shortening your lap times but rather increasing them as i said you will have to wait till your tires regain grip before you can start accelerating and moving forward again. While if you weren't sliding at all, you would have more grip available and be able achieve a higher exit speed as there is no time lost because you always had some level of grip. It's very rare that a car that drifts through a corner can exit going faster than a car that used grip driving through it. Heck the Sebastian Loeb rally event's highlight this, heck they pretty much beat it into your head.

So while you don't get speed reading in the game while sliding, for the bulk of this game it's pretty irrelevant as knowing how fast you're sliding through a corner is not readable through any car in real life to begin with, you just get either speed of the driven wheels or speed of a non driven wheel which isn't accurate as you are sliding. Location based radar might work well in this instance, but who is going to use that? This isn't a problem, if you think about it when you play the game you react to things based on what you see, and admit it you're rarely looking at the speedometer when trying to push your car, you are usually listening for the sounds of the tires and watching your placement and feeling the wheel in your hand. Speedometer doesn't give you much, it's a quick gauging point but for what it's worth it works for when you are driving the car using race proven techniques. Yes?

 

[thechosenwonton]

Who uses a speedometer to improve lap times? Look into the corner if you want to go faster, not the speedo. This is the reason race cars don't have speedometers, because it's not needed. Tach, yes, speed, no.

Thread is fail.

 

[reaperman]

Who uses a speedometer to improve lap times? Look into the corner if you want to go faster, not the speedo. This is the reason race cars don't have speedometers, because it's not needed. Tach, yes, speed, no.

Thread is fail.

I'm sure tons of people do, but I can't think of any who need it to give the 'correctly wrong' speed when they've cooked their corner and are sliding.

Still, if cars do it, it's an addition to the 'better next time' list. The very bottom of the list. Or close.
Somewhere down near 'record urination' in the data logger for b-spec endurance races.

 

[Andeekaii]

I've read the first 4 pages of this topic - and to be quite honest the 50 people moaning about the original post are WAY more annoying than the original post. Jeez.

Firstly, for all the people who are saying he shouldn't be driving sideways:
A) Erm, GT5 has a drifting part... remember; and rallying, as mentioned.
B) Like other people said, sometimes it is faster - understeering cars, BTCC/Touring Car etc.
C) It's completely irrelevant - the point is, its not realistic. The OP's driving skill shouldn't even be in the debate.

Secondly, GT5 is ' the real driving simulator' so it should do it the way the majority of real cars do it. Like mentioned, rFactor does it the 'correct' way, and so does LFS.

But seriously, all the moaning needs to stop. It's a valid point and the OP is only getting annoyed because people are moaning. If we just had a reasonable conversation about it, it would be a much less tedious topic to read.

 

[TTownEP]

So you are telling me in real life your car is going to read the correct speed on a turn where you slide around a corner? The answer is no. Therefore your real-life comparison is flawed and your whole argument is bunk. Thank you.

I agree. It's not modeled after the "real" way that cars do it. A real car would be inaccurate in the OPs scenario, and this is equally inaccurate in the opposite direction. You 'll be reading slow instead of fast.

On the other hand, why change the way it was done now? Because it's a new physics engine. I'm sure you can check GT1 and GT4 and it will be the same as what you tested on 2 and 3. It does seem kind of weird that they would change it, as a "GPS style" speedo would certainly be the way to go, as it doesn't matter which way the car's facing.

The bottom line is, I can guarantee you that this is a non-issue for them. It will not be patched later, there are too many things that millions of people are asking for, as opposed to this one guy complaining about the speedo.

 

[Jason_Hall]

This is now called nit picking. Who cares and how slow are you for only just working this out?

 

[Oliver DePlace]

Just be thankful that nobody told Kaz, because if they had, we'd still be waiting for GT5.

It's like waiting for your wife to get ready for a night out. You're all set to go, got the keys in your hand. She checks the mirror, she sees something that isn't quite right and she's back in the closet looking for that "perfect" outfit. You loosen your tie and make a sandwich.

Tester says, "The speedo's are wrong."
Bean counter says, "If you tell Kaz, I'll kill you."

 

[Andeekaii]

There is a bigger picture to this - so much bigger than "who cares what the speedo reads".
It could mean the physics are oh so wrong. Isn't this at least the 3rd example of things not working as they should?

We've got go karts racing backwards.
Some guy posted earlier a car than can do 400kph backwards.
Cars cut out and doesn't idle, for some reason.
Another guy mentioned how bad the Murcielago LP-640 handled.
I've also noticed myself that when on a wet track, when not moving, the car begins to slide across the track, of its own accord? I mean actually slide, like its on a hill of ice of something - and yes, the road was flat.

I'm sure there are many, many more.
Of course, it's only a game bla bla bla - I know, I've read it a million times. But considering the time spent developing, it seems like a backwards step in the GT series.

 

[mafia_boy]

Great way to start a coherent post, especially when later on you agree with its core content (my post was to indicate that the speedometer in the game is wrong, you agreed to that later on, so even if you don't like the way I'm presenting it, it is a gameplay fact that the great majority of people here seem to not know about and isn't "absolute garbage")

Listen here sunshine, the reason I said all the "garbage" wasn't directed at you......entirely. A lot of the replies on both sides made this thread GARBAGE, so I threw my bit on top of the trash pile which you created.

Way to read the thread... I already explained that I only brought up that fact to defend myself against someone belittling my argument by implying I was a poor driver.
(also golding IC-10 with a DS3 and golding it with a DS3 and with abs off is very different on that particular test)

But the thing is, getting gold on IC-10 with zero aids (which I did) doesn't make you a particularly great driver either.....it just means you passed a relatively simple 2 lap battle at Rome. If you Golded the TG Lotus challenge, then I'd say you have REAL skills because that challenge is very VERY difficult for anyone with a DS3 if you use zero aids, especially compared to Rome.

And MY post is garbage? You are comparing a purely cosmetic detail on a background item to a core gameplay tool (whether you like it or not speedometers are as old as racing games are) that make speed comparisons in turns (in game or most likely during replays) completely useless. Also the "don't complain with something unless you create the same item better" is complete nonsense and could be applied to 99.9% of constructive criticism in the world. I suppose I'll never see you criticize any movie, game, book, politician, item build quality, etc... because you haven't made one yourself? Please stop the hypocrisy.

You really seem to think I have it in for you don't you?? Stop thinking every comment I made in that post was directed at you noob. If you had been here for longer than the 5 days you've been on this website (some of us have been around for over 8 years, I've been on here for over 5), YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ON HERE WHINGE ABOUT THE MOST PEDANTIC LITTLE DETAILS OF THE GAME!! Go check out all the stuff about "working reverse lights" or "skid marks" or "3D trees" or ANY of the many threads in this section and then understand what myself and falango were getting into.

And how the 🤬 am I being hypocritical?? It's simple, if you don't like it, improve on it.....it's what society has done for oh, the past several thousand years!! If it doesn't work well, make it better!! If this wasn't true, we'd all be sleeping in sarcophagus' and wearing simple rags, instead of having designer clothes, cars, comfy beds, products that complete tasks in microseconds instead of years. If it wasn't for people wanting to improve on a sundial we wouldn't have a watch. So stop thinking "me me me" because it makes you look pathetic.

Mod or not, I did reply his very question in my very first post in the thread, and before it was edited. The game doesn't use GPS style reading like GT1-3 and neither an off the wheel reading, but a new way of measuring speed towards the direction your hood is facing.

But he did explain the other various methods of how a car measures it's speed, which I added to which is what I said take heed to.

Even if a real car's speedo is off the transmission, if the wheels are moving the real car speedo will not stay at 0... If the wheels are spinning the transmission is doing its job and the car has no way of knowing whether it's moving or not short of using a GPS system.

Agree to disagree on that one, because I know with the Holden Gemini, the speedo WOULD NOT MOVE during a burnout and that was a transmission mounted speedo cable.

So you agree that my complaint is valid and can be an annoyance to gameplay yet you thrash my thread as "absolute garbage" when that's the only point I was trying to make when I started the thread?

Once again, I have to reiterate it wasn't ALL directed at you so cut the "me me me" out.

Good for you that you got used to that but a kink in the system is a kink in the system, no matter how old. If GT1-3 did it right and were perfectly accurate (if unrealistic), I don't see why they used this arbitrary system of speed measurement that is NEITHER realistic NOR accurate.

You know what, I can only say the same thing so many ways.......but hey, take it up with Kaz, go whinge on his twitter and see if he responds to you about slip angles because I think that's one of the lesser things he has to worry about.

 

[Flyojumper]

I wouldn't say that GT5 does it wrong as some cars in real life the speedometer will read zero when you burnout, sure the wheels are spinning at a speed but the manufacturer thought it best that you only need know how fast you are going when you are actually moving.

Out of genuine curiosity, how do those manufacturers achieve that result? The only way I can think of is a GPS, is that what they actually use or do they use another way?

Nothing is actually wrong with GT5 speedometer as it does what it is supposed to do, give you accurate reading of your cars' speed.

Except it is NOT an accurate reading of your car speed... I'm sounding like a broken record here, but the proper phrasing would be "it gives you a rough estimate of your car speed, which will be correct when driving in a straight line, but will be wildly off at any time where your hood is facing a different direction than the car's momentum."
Without even going into the conversation of a proper racing line, grip, etc... the only fact that there are rally and drifting events should be reason enough to keep the GT1-3 accurate GPS type speedo.

I've read the first 4 pages of this topic - and to be quite honest the 50 people moaning about the original post are WAY more annoying than the original post. Jeez.
Firstly, for all the people who are saying he shouldn't be driving sideways:
A) Erm, GT5 has a drifting part... remember; and rallying, as mentioned.
B) Like other people said, sometimes it is faster - understeering cars, BTCC/Touring Car etc.
C) It's completely irrelevant - the point is, its not realistic. The OP's driving skill shouldn't even be in the debate.
Secondly, GT5 is ' the real driving simulator' so it should do it the way the majority of real cars do it. Like mentioned, rFactor does it the 'correct' way, and so does LFS.
But seriously, all the moaning needs to stop. It's a valid point and the OP is only getting annoyed because people are moaning. If we just had a reasonable conversation about it, it would be a much less tedious topic to read.

Thank you oh so very much... It seems that far too many people here subscribe to the "it's not important to me therefore it should not be important to anyone else".
Why brings me to...

This is now called nit picking. Who cares and how slow are you for only just working this out?

Care to point me to a single topic discussing this?

Listen here sunshine, the reason I said all the "garbage" wasn't directed at you......entirely. A lot of the replies on both sides made this thread GARBAGE, so I threw my bit on top of the trash pile which you created.

Alright, but you were still inflammatory towards me by saying that. I'm not responsible if other people trash my thread with needless flaming after I created it. My original point is valid and the only reason it degenerated is because most users here reverted into "turtle" mode at the mere idea of criticism, whether it is founded or not.

But the thing is, getting gold on IC-10 with zero aids (which I did) doesn't make you a particularly great driver either.....it just means you passed a relatively simple 2 lap battle at Rome. If you Golded the TG Lotus challenge, then I'd say you have REAL skills because that challenge is very VERY difficult for anyone with a DS3 if you use zero aids, especially compared to Rome.

It's funny but when I was working on passing this test with ABS off, I made a topic here asking if anyone had done it and amongst many reponses, I didn't get a single one from someone who golded it with ABS off. The consensus from other posters in the thread seemed to be that ABS1 was needed to control the squirelly nature of the ferrari. So maybe to you that feat is no big deal, but it definitely seemed to be from the sample I got from this board on that thread. Also, I wasn't commenting on what an elite driver I was when I said that, but merely on how I was far from a driver who rides walls to pass his tests... I believe we can at least agree that golding IC-10 with abs off is sufficient to prove that you are at the very least an adequate driver...
(You can dig the post from my post history if you'd like to take a look at it yourself.)

You really seem to think I have it in for you don't you?? Stop thinking every comment I made in that post was directed at you noob. If you had been here for longer than the 5 days you've been on this website (some of us have been around for over 8 years, I've been on here for over 5), YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ON HERE WHINGE ABOUT THE MOST PEDANTIC LITTLE DETAILS OF THE GAME!! Go check out all the stuff about "working reverse lights" or "skid marks" or "3D trees" or ANY of the many threads in this section and then understand what myself and falango were getting into.

In any thread, unless you name the person your comments are directed towards, without an explicit context it is natural to assume that the comments are directed towards the thread creator.
Also, shame on me for thinking the members of this board would have the necessary faculties to enter a thread without preconceived notions or desire to flame and lash back just because other threads revolved around unfounded criticism. It's not my fault if people carry a grudge around and spew it in threads that don't deserve it. If you can't enter a thread with an objective and impartial mind, then maybe you should refrain from posting and flaming its creator for how annoyed you have been by other posters recently.

And how the 🤬 am I being hypocritical?? It's simple, if you don't like it, improve on it.....it's what society has done for oh, the past several thousand years!! If it doesn't work well, make it better!! If this wasn't true, we'd all be sleeping in sarcophagus' and wearing simple rags, instead of having designer clothes, cars, comfy beds, products that complete tasks in microseconds instead of years. If it wasn't for people wanting to improve on a sundial we wouldn't have a watch. So stop thinking "me me me" because it makes you look pathetic.

But that's exactly what I'm doing, instead of being content with a status quo of a broken speedometer, I bring it up to the public eye in the hopes that it may get some attention and be fixed sooner or later (even if it is only for a future GT6...) Short of being hired by PD as a programmer, which you must agree is completely unreasonable, it is the most I can realistically do to remedy this. So if anything, based on your definition, you should be praising me instead of being yet another "lemming" who notices a problem but won't communicate it. How can you achieve progress if you refuse to even acknowledge that something can be made better? By staying silent, I make no step whatsoever into improving the game, by communicating my findings I take a minuscule chance of getting the problem noticed and possibly fixed in the future. How can you possibly regard this as going against progress when it's the exact opposite?

 

[niky]

@mafia_boy: I did not have time to read the whole thread in detail, which is why I asked, for clarity.

@Flyofjumper and everyone else: Please stay civil. If you feel that you're being un-necessarily attacked, you can always use the report button and a mod will be with you in short order to review the reported post. This is an interesting discussion and I'd like to see it stay that way. A discussion.

Neither, please reread my initial post. It is read as an arbitrary measure of the speed towards the point that your hood is facing.
#1 Being stuck against a wall and spinning all wheels on a FR, FF, or 4WD car will always result in 0 mph being displayed, so this rules out any reading off the wheels or transmission.

Again... ABS sensor. Front hub sensor. Whatever.

#2 doing a high speed sideway powerslide will result in your speedo going to 0mph and staying there while you car is still moving at high speed (if you manage to maintain the car perfectly perpendicular). This right there is completely different from the previous GT games (at least up to GT3 which I tested again today). On those games a powerslide would display the true movement speed of the car, GPS style.

Now that is truly weird. But thankfully, I don't race sideways to the track.

Starting to get a bit off topic hear but the reason why most on road racing (particularly high down force classes) have less sliding is because it wears the tyre down a lot faster. Also, driving something like and LMP car or an F1 car "loose" way too dangerous.

In most Touring car series the fastest way is with a bit of sliding. It overcomes the limitations of the front tyres so the driver can turn sharper then normal (all cars have grip limits, even F1's) and if done correctly can have relatively larges gains.

Qualifying runs are done with the least amount of wheelspin possible, and with the cars as glued to the line as possible. The only exceptions are when the conditions are slippery, and, again, oversteer is the only alternative to understeer, because at least the tires are pointed in the right direction.

F1 cars can oversteer. And they can do it safely in the right conditions. But given optimum conditions, it is never faster than not oversteering.

While I agree that a small amount of slip angle is preferable for some series and conditions, it is by no means and absolute... and the absolute quickest way will always be to find the most grip possible and minimize excessive lateral movements of the car.

 

[IzoAzlion]

Who looks at the speedo when you're frigging sideways anyway! In the whole of the Nurb there are 3 places I look at the speedo, all of them are either sweeping bends or the long straight.

 

[Andeekaii]

While I agree that a small amount of slip angle is preferable for some series and conditions, it is by no means and absolute... and the absolute quickest way will always be to find the most grip possible and minimize excessive lateral movements of the car.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that the speedo in GT5 is doing things that aren't preferable. 💡 Which, is the whole point of this topic. Not a discussion as to whether we should be driving sideways or not, or whether we even look at the speedo, IzoAzlion.