The thing about the Senna content...

[ParkerChace]

This will sound possibly disrespectful or whatnot, but A.Senna was NOT the only one that died in a formula race. Not only that, he wasn't even the only to die on the day he did, so how about the developers start making non fragmented content from different championships and start making cars and content that don't disrespectfully "respect" one of the many who lost their lives in a formula race?

 

[Ze Elephant]

From what I understand of it, they made the content and commemoration in GT6 to not only pay respect to Senna, who was an outstanding driver, but also to raise awareness for his foundation.

I don't think the other 48 (or so) drivers who have been killed in F1 have had the same roots, driving ability, and lasting impact on less fortunate people

 

[LancerEvo7]

he wasn't even the only to die on the day he did

Ratzenberger died the day before Senna.

And I fail to see how paying tribute to Senna's entire career, especially considering most of the focus on him is his F1 career, is disrespectful.

 

[jimipitbull]

What about the Hudson Hornet? It was here first.

Are American cars exempt from this ludicrous propaganda?

 

[ClydeYellow]

Like it or not, Senna was one of the greatest F1 racer ever. Many believe him to be the greatest.

From a humane standpoint, his death was as grave as Ratzenberger's, or anyone else. But for the world of powersports, Senna's death had more severe consequences, was felt far more than Ratzenberger's. So, in the context of powersports, you could say that Senna's life is more valuable than that of many other drivers who died at the wheel of a F1 car. And Gran Turismo is a celebration of automobile racing and, more broadly speaking, cars, not of the intrinsic value of life.

(Know that I've always advocated for more recognition for those "minor" drivers, yes, but humans just as important as any Senna or Villeneuve, who died in F1: at least Ratzenberger had the dubious luck to die in the same race weekend as one of the greatest in the business; ever heard of Luigi Musso, Eugenio Castellotti or Guido Cabianca, just to name a triplet of drivers from my own country?)

Besides, the collaboration with the IAS helped raise awareness and funds for the Instituto, which works with kids from disadvantaged communities to give them a fair chance.

 

[sparkytooth]

I did see mention of Ratzenberger in the final slideshow.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In my opinion we do a disservice to Senna, Ratzenberger and anyone else by even having this discussion, trying to justify why one dead driver is honoured over another. To even utter the words that one driver is "more valuable makes me a little sick to my stomach.

Senna was picked because he was Kaz's favourite driver and he wanted to pay tribute to the man and honour the legacy he created with the foundation. It was a personal choice, just like if I was in Kaz's shoes I would have made the personal choice of honouring Gilles Villeneuve.

No personal choice is right or wrong in this context. To debate which dead driver is more deserving is ludicrous in my opinion. We should be celebrating the life and career of Senna and the work that continues in his absence with his name, not trying to justify why he would be chosen over other, equally deserving drivers.

 

[CeeJay]

...so how about the developers start making non fragmented content from different championships and start making cars and content that don't disrespectfully "respect" one of the many who lost their lives in a formula race?

I'm sorry but your post just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.. in what possible way is having Senna content being disrespectful?? Ratzenberger death was tragic but as far as his impact on the world of racing he was in a total of 3 F1 races. Senna had won 3 world championships in a pretty spectacular career with some unforgettable moments. It's natural there would be content in a racing game created around someone like Senna. The creators didn't create this content with ill-will in their hearts! I don't understand

 

[Blacktop]

Surely I'm not the only one to think the Senna tribute has as much to do with his humane contributions as his racing ones?

 

[GTP_Jimbobo]

They can't add 48 tributes in-game!!!

 

[Azure Flare]

It isn't about Senna the incredible driver, it is also about him as a man.

 

[ParkerMO125]

seeing all those poor kids getting a chance at something greater in life, because of the senna family, is pure gold. And all who have died are looking down with great pleasure. There is no time for a thread like this, life is too short.

 

[PIGBOY]

This Senna content is,as Murray Walker would say..."FANTASTIC".Good job GT6,much better than X20**.No recreation will ever be 10/10 right so any effort is greatly appreaciated.What would be nice is 3 different settings,in the A,B & C.A = Qualifying as i think the set up is set for,as 1st & 2nd gears are next to useless.B = road course , C = wet weather.I just got a 1:07.9 in 20 minutes,then left but now ive come back,tried to be a bit more real,with no ABS,no TC,brakes were 7/9 and i got a 1:05.999 with a few lock ups.FUN!!!

 

[stuff1138]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Jochen Rindt

 

[MRXAE86]

You are also forgetting where this game comes from. Japan. If there is one place where Senna is most popular aside from Brazil it is Japan, but the ultimate reason for this content as stated is his passing 20 years ago and the foundation awareness which is amazing.

 

[PIGBOY]

Wayne Gardener,aka Captain Chaos,was also loved in japan.How about some of his V8 supercars!!

 

[Madertus]

This will sound possibly disrespectful or whatnot, but A.Senna was NOT the only one that died in a formula race. Not only that, he wasn't even the only to die on the day he did, so how about the developers start making non fragmented content from different championships and start making cars and content that don't disrespectfully "respect" one of the many who lost their lives in a formula race?

Do you actually think they made this tribute just because he died...?

 

[332i]

This wasnt for brazilians...or for the Senna Foundation. The content just happens to benefit it. Senna is put on a pedestal by the Japanese. That is well known.

There are some people commenting on how senna is and was regarded, who clearly have never followed f1 much. Senna is not regarded as the best driver in f1 or that he possibly could have been. Senna won some championships, yes. As have many, many others. People with shorter careers than his, too.

There is no best driver ever. You can't compare. Senna was the king in the wet and that's it. He was not the best during his career, so I always smirk when I hear people say he could have or may be the best ever. If he ran train on everyone his whole f1 career or damn near it, that would have been another story.

This was for money. They love senna over at PD and they could do it, so they did. Simple. They make a little tribute and all, whatever.

The Ratzenbürger stuff...he's not a household name in Japan. They don't care about him...so we don't get anything on him or anyone else. That's basically what it comes down to - PD couldn't care less about other drivers to make tributes or even put their car in the game. They spent an outrageous amount of time on the 97T.

The cars are good and that's all I care about. If the Japanese want to continue to idolize him, good for them. As long as they don't screw up the content, they can put whatever cars they want in the game. As long as they're not ficticious, like the Red Bulls, which is also a marketing tool.

Senna's death is a marketing tool. People have made more money off of his death, than a he ever did in his lifetime.

 

[Johnnypenso]

There are some people commenting on how senna is and was regarded, who clearly have never followed f1 much. Senna is not regarded as the best driver in f1 or that he possibly could have been. Senna won some championships, yes. As have many, many others. People with shorter careers than his, too. There is no best driver ever. You can't compare. Senna was the king in the wet and that's it. He was not the best during his career, so I always smirk when I hear people say he could have or may be the best ever. If he ran train on everyone his whole f1 career or damn near it, that would have been another story.

Millions of people would disagree about the "best ever" part, but of course there is no right answer. Different cars, different eras. Was Senna gifted and legendary?...there's no dispute about that. Best in the wet?...again not much dispute. Best of his era? A great many fans would agree.

This was for money. They love senna over at PD and they could do it, so they did. Simple. They make a little tribute and all, whatever.

I always find it humourous when people think this is some kind of disparaging remark. It's like saying (and thinking it's some grand criticism) "The only reason he went into that restaurant was to eat!" The primary purpose of all business, first and foremost, is to make money, end of story.

The Ratzenbürger stuff...he's not a household name in Japan. They don't care about him...so we don't get anything on him or anyone else. That's basically what it comes down to - PD couldn't care less about other drivers to make tributes or even put their car in the game. They spent an outrageous amount of time on the 97T.

As above, stating the obvious as if it has some deeper, more nefarious meaning. Ever hear of Madden Football? Colin McRae Rally? How about Marty Mornhinweg Football? Hardy Schmidtke Rally? Of course not. Names sell, businesses are in business to sell. That's how it works. That's why you don't see the Chevrolet Corsair in GT, or the Chevette, or the Dodge Omni or a K-car. They have no historical importance as cars and won't encourage sales.

As long as they're not ficticious, like the Red Bulls, which is also a marketing tool.

Senna's death is a marketing tool. People have made more money off of his death, than a he ever did in his lifetime.

Again, stating the obvious as if it's some earth shattering revelation. See above. I'd also like to see your sources and statistics that people are making more money off Senna's death than they did in his lifetime or kindly withdraw the remark.

 

[332i]

^^^Not touching that loaded post with attempted points with a ten foot pole. That's a lot of opinion. Best in the wet...statistically speaking, yes. The rest of that post is a brain wash and rhetoric. Sorry.

Just about every F1 fan respects him in one way or another...saying he was the best of his era is a stretch. The overwhelming majority of f1 fans outside of Brazil, japan, and his fans from the beginning - we say he is one of the greats. Period. Nothing else. Anything otherwise is could have, would have talk.

Talk to some serious f1 fans and ask them of their opinion. You're not going to like it. The second thing they'll say is that he was dirty as sin and wreck less - dangerous to be around at times, but so hasn't every other world champion in the past 3-4 decades. When you don't praise senna, his fanboys come out of the woodwork swinging.

I'm not getting in a stupid senna argument on the internet. Let alone on a gran turismo forum, sparked by his content release. You're entitled to your opinion. Good day.

If you want to talk about how much harder it is to drive a modern f1 over any of the f1 cars senna drove, I'll gladly debate that one. Senna had to shift, steer via hand and use pedals. Ok, now that we have that established, go look at an onboard lap during Q3 these days. All senna had to think about was driving. Every driver on the grid right now...sure, they use paddle shifters instead. But...they're also adjusting the diff, brake pressures, fuel maps, ERS, DRS, more torque in race trim and less aero. Yes, less aero. There were very few aero rules during sennas time in f1. Since 2004, the FIA has taken dramatic steps to reduce downforce. The 2004 cars were the fastest ever. Someone was going to get killed and Ferrari was cleaning house. That was with ringed tires, too. Bottom line is drivers have way more to think about with cars that have more torque, less, harder rubber, tiny wings in the back, no trickery like blown diffusers (which were being run on several cars during Sennas time as well, concept was not invented by newey when he was at RBR or newey at all), and they're constantly making adjustments on the steering wheel...and hitting shift points, apexes, hydraulic pressures, fuel usage...so much. Current drivers have leaps and bounds more to do in the car than senna did, just to make the 107% rule.

 

[Tornado]

How noble of you.


"I'll start this argument about Senna on a Gran Turismo forum in response to the Senna content release with my own post blatantly loaded to get maximum controversy, but I refuse to get involved in one beyond that."

 

[332i]

How noble of you.


"I'll start this argument about Senna on a Gran Turismo forum in response to the Senna content release with my own post blatantly loaded to get maximum controversy, but I refuse to get involved in one beyond that."

I read the thread and responded to a few points, I just didn't quote them. I'm not arguing about it, because it is stupid. Just because someone states their opinion (and the majority of the f1 world/circus), doesn't mean they're looking for an argument I added more to that post as well.

Not sure how that is starting an argument...someone disagreed with my opinion. That's it lol. If he wants to argue, he can go do it with a wall...just not with me, that's all. The silly crap I am not touching. The argument that modern drivers would have trouble with an 80s/early 90s eras is a joke and a half. That is absurd. Obviously some of the best in world were driving the old cars, but take any of those guys from his era and sit them down in a modern car. "Guys, how do I get it into first gear?" "I'm getting wicked understeer through turn three...what do?"

Engineer - "Adjust the diff."

Old driver - "do what, now?"

Engineer - "you're not adjusting your brake pressures. Why?"

Old driver "Errrrr, there are too many buttons, man. They all have one letter or number on them...what does this crap mean?? Is the screen a touch pad? I would be doing so much better, if I didn't have to turn dials and press buttons to boost the cars performance. All we had to do was focus on driving, think about strategies and shift."

And so on.

 

[peter_vod69]

I thought the whole reason people posted threads on forums was to start arguments?

 

[332i]

I thought the whole reason people posted threads on forums was to start arguments?

Apparently...jeez.

 

[OriginalCheezIt]

^^^Not touching that loaded post with a ten foot pole.

*Proceeds to touch loaded post with 65 fewer poles than Ayrton Senna had*

Best in the wet...statistically speaking, yes.

Isn't that how people qualify for being "the best"? Through statistics?

The rest of that post is a brain wash and rhetoric. Sorry.

Brain wash? Where? And yes, his post was full of rhetoric. That's what an argument is.

Just about every F1 fan respects him in one way or another...saying he was the best of his era is a stretch.

You certainly don't seem to respect him all that much. And statistically speaking, he WAS the best of his era. Absolutely no doubts or counter-arguments to that.

The overwhelming majority of f1 fans outside of Brazil, japan, and his fans from the beginning - we say he is one of the greats. Period. Nothing else. Anything otherwise is could have, would have talk.

Ah, so NOW you say he is great. And it's not "could have, would have" talk. Bruno Senna was "could have, would have". Ayrton was more of "been there, done that". He delivered results.

Talk to some serious f1 fans and ask them of their opinion. You're not going to like it. The second thing they'll say is that he was dirty as sin and wreck less - dangerous to be around at times, but so hasn't every other world champion in the past 3-4 decades. When you don't praise senna, his fanboys come out of the woodwork swinging.

Yeah, Senna was dirty. He was absolutely ruthless at times. That is what it takes to be truly great.

​

I'm not getting in a stupid senna argument on the internet. Let alone on a gran turismo forum, sparked by his content release. You're entitled to your opinion. Good day.

Ah, I see. You're better than us. I'm sorry for arguing, sir, I'll just be on my way now...

If you want to talk about how much harder it is to drive a modern f1 over any of the f1 cars senna drove, I'll gladly debate that one. Senna had to shift, steer via hand and use pedals. Ok, now that we have that established, go look at an onboard lap during Q3 these days. All senna had to think about was driving. Every driver on the grid right now...sure, they use paddle shifters instead. But...they're also adjusting the diff, brake pressures, fuel maps, ERS, DRS, more torque in race trim and less aero. Yes, less aero. There were very few aero rules during sennas time in f1. Since 2004, the FIA has taken dramatic steps to reduce downforce. The 2004 cars were the fastest ever. Someone was going to get killed and Ferrari was cleaning house. That was with ringed tires, too. Bottom line is drivers have way more to think about with cars that have more torque, less, harder rubber, tiny wings in the back, no trickery like blown diffusers (which were being run on several cars during Sennas time as well, concept was not invented by newey when he was at RBR or newey at all), and they're constantly making adjustments on the steering wheel...and hitting shift points, apexes, hydraulic pressures, fuel usage...so much. Current drivers have leaps and bounds more to do in the car than senna did, just to make the 107% rule.

Sure, current F1 drivers do a lot more in their cars than Senna had to. But their cars also do a lot more for the driver than in Senna's era. And show me where you found that early '90's cars made more downforce than the current cars. I would be interested in reading that.

I read the thread and responded to a few points, I just didn't quote them. I'm not arguing about it, because it is stupid. Just because someone states their opinion (and the majority of the f1 world/circus), doesn't mean they're looking for an argument I added more to that post as well.

So basically you are just saying this:

​

Not sure how that is starting an argument...someone disagreed with my opinion. That's it lol. If he wants to argue, he can go do it with a wall...just not with me, that's all. The silly crap I am not touching.

Your "holier than thou" attitude is really getting on my nerves, in case you haven't noticed.

The argument that modern drivers would have trouble with an 80s/early 90s eras is a joke and a half. That is absurd. Obviously some of the best in world were driving the old cars, but take any of those guys from his era and sit them down in a modern car. "Guys, how do I get it into first gear?" "I'm getting wicked understeer through turn three...what do?"

Engineer - "Adjust the diff."

Old driver - "do what, now?"

Engineer - "you're not adjusting your brake pressures. Why?"

Old driver "Errrrr, there are too many buttons, man. They all have one letter or number on them...what does this crap mean?? Is the screen a touch pad? I would be doing so much better, if I didn't have to turn dials and press buttons to boost the cars performance. All we had to do was focus on driving, think about strategies and shift."

And so on.

So you are basically calling the old drivers stupid? "OH NOES, I HAVE TO DRIVE SOMETHING I'M NOT USED TO DRIVING! WHATEVER SHALL I DO?"

It's not like Senna had a large cerebral cortex that could be used to ADAPT to new situations or anything...

Next time, please be sure to make a valid point when arguing your opinion.

Apparently...jeez.

Oh, whoops. I forgot: You're better than me. Sorry again sir.

​

 

[Imari]

And statistically speaking, he WAS the best of his era. Absolutely no doubts or counter-arguments to that.

Perhaps you'd like to demonstrate that statistically then.

Other greats who raced against Senna (and are therefore presumably in his era): Prost, Piquet, Lauda, and Schumacher.

Senna was a great driver. Was he categorically the best driver of his time? Debatable. I'd have a tough time putting any of those drivers absolutely above any other.

 

[332i]

*Proceeds to touch loaded post with 65 fewer poles than Ayrton Senna had*



Isn't that how people qualify for being "the best"? Through statistics?



Brain wash? Where? And yes, his post was full of rhetoric. That's what an argument is.



You certainly don't seem to respect him all that much. And statistically speaking, he WAS the best of his era. Absolutely no doubts or counter-arguments to that.



Ah, so NOW you say he is great. And it's not "could have, would have" talk. Bruno Senna was "could have, would have". Ayrton was more of "been there, done that". He delivered results.



Yeah, Senna was dirty. He was absolutely ruthless at times. That is what it takes to be truly great.

​

Ah, I see. You're better than us. I'm sorry for arguing, sir, I'll just be on my way now...



Sure, current F1 drivers do a lot more in their cars than Senna had to. But their cars also do a lot more for the driver than in Senna's era. And show me where you found that early '90's cars made more downforce than the current cars. I would be interested in reading that.



So basically you are just saying this:

​

Your "holier than thou" attitude is really getting on my nerves, in case you haven't noticed.



So you are basically calling the old drivers stupid? "OH NOES, I HAVE TO DRIVE SOMETHING I'M NOT USED TO DRIVING! WHATEVER SHALL I DO?"

It's not like Senna had a large cerebral cortex that could be used to ADAPT to new situations or anything...

Next time, please be sure to make a valid point when arguing your opinion.



Oh, whoops. I forgot: You're better than me. Sorry again sir.

​

TL;DR please. I just looked at the pictures and bold text. I hardly addressed his post, he just happened to say some of the same things as people above him. A few times you say that I said x...followed by you saying "oh, so you think your better than us". "Oh, so you think your right." Pound sand, dude You spent a lot time on your post and presumably the internet, huh? Either way, you clearly feel much stronger than I on this matter. I don't bother with fans who clearly have there heart or feelings into admiring a driver, let alone one that has passed away. It is a waste of time and I could be doing better things, than argue about senna on the web. As soon as I finish taking this dump, I won't give this another thought or care. It's not that I am better or that you're not worth it...I've just seen enough of the senna crap arguing for years and years. It goes nowhere. And it is a never ending internet argument. The people defending him are ALWAYS, 100% fanboys or they watched a movie or documentary that romanticised his life, then they walk away thinking he was gods gift to f1 and will tell everyone who wants to talk f1. It helps distinguish the bandwagoneers and fanboys. If your from Brazil, different story. I have a friend from Brazil. He was eight when senna died and cried for days. I'm not ignorant to his existence, nor do I lack respect, believe you me. Otherwise, eh. Not many people like senna back then, which speaks for your age and knowledge on f1.

If you don't want to read these sorts of things, go make a thread that puts Senna on a pedestal.

That smart mouth comment about the 65 poles - I guess you learned something last Friday.

 

[Tornado]

Perhaps you'd like to demonstrate that statistically then.

Other greats who raced against Senna (and are therefore presumably in his era): Prost, Piquet, Lauda, and Schumacher.

This is rather disingenuous of a comparison, since that's more than 40 years of F1 competition. I'd hesitate to even say that Lauda was of the same "class" of drivers as Piquet/Senna/Prost, even taking his successful unretirement into account; nevermind Schumacher.

 

[OriginalCheezIt]

Perhaps you'd like to demonstrate that statistically then.

Other greats who raced against Senna (and are therefore presumably in his era): Prost, Piquet, Lauda, and Schumacher.

Senna was a great driver. Was he categorically the best driver of his time? Debatable. I'd have a tough time putting any of those drivers absolutely above any other.

I would certainly put Lauda and Schumacher in the same category as Senna, but I wouldn't say they were the same era. They had their own eras. But excellent drivers nonetheless. If they had all hit their prime in the same era, who knows who would have come out on top. As for Piquet and Prost, they were also very very good at their craft. But Senna just had a head up on them in my eyes.

TL;DR please. I just looked at the pictures and bold text. I hardly addressed his post, he just happened to say some of the same things as people above him. A few times you say that I said x...followed by you saying "oh, so you think your better than us". "Oh, so you think your right." Pound sand, dude You spent a lot time on your post and presumably the internet, huh? Either way, you clearly feel much stronger than I on this matter. I don't bother with fans who clearly have there heart or feelings into admiring a driver, let alone one that has passed away. It is a waste of time and I could be doing better things, than argue about senna on the web. As soon as I finish taking this dump, I won't give this another thought or care. It's not that I am better or that you're not worth it...I've just seen enough of the senna crap arguing for years and years. It goes nowhere. And it is a never ending internet argument. The people defending him are ALWAYS, 100% fanboys or they watched a movie or documentary that romanticised his life, then they walk away thinking he was gods gift to f1 and will tell everyone who wants to talk f1. It helps distinguish the bandwagoneers and fanboys. If your from Brazil, different story. I have a friend from Brazil. He was eight when senna died and cried for days. I'm not ignorant to his existence, nor do I lack respect, believe you me. Otherwise, eh. Not many people like senna back then, which speaks for your age and knowledge on f1.

If you don't want to read these sorts of things, go make a thread that puts Senna on a pedestal.

That smart mouth comment about the 65 poles - I guess you learned something last Friday.

Wow, you really are something, aren't you? Arrogance is not a fine color on anyone.

 

[332i]

How do you come to these conclusions??? Look a few of your posts back in your post history. You're either still in high school or college. It's not a big deal for a college to a get a tv like that, so I'm guessing you are still in high school. And if you're in college, even taking an extra few years...you still wouldn't have known what you were watching at that age. Don't go drawing conclusions from YouTube video clips, movies and other peoples opinions, mang.