The Ultimate 4x4 Excursion

[Joey D]

Well its more of the people that own them, they are like Jeep owners. They have a false since of what their vehicle can do. I'm sure they work off road.

 

[Flerbizky]

Looks steep and rockey to me

That's effing crazy... Damn..

 

[Joey D]

That's effing crazy... Damn..

The test videos are even crazier...those trucks can make it up inclines like that no with little to no problems.

 

[JNasty4G63]

Well its more of the people that own them, they are like Jeep owners. They have a false since of what their vehicle can do. I'm sure they work off road.

You know, you sound just like someone who bundles all Honda owners as someone who thinks their Civic is the fastest thing around. Are there some fast Hondas out there??? Yes. Are there a lot of people out there who think just because they have a big exhaust their Civic is fast??? Yes. Just because you seem to have had a bad experience with a Jeep owner, you need to know that we aren't all over the top cocky like you think. You sound like an ignorant fool talking like that.

Do I think the Wrangler has some great capabilities??? Sure, of course. But, I understand, like any sane person does, that the thing has limits. Its a good vehicle stock, but it has limits. So, please, just stop with that. You need to understand that just because we bring up some quirks and quibbles with your beloved GM vehicles, thats not us bashing them just because they aren't Jeeps.

Now, on to the Hummer thing. I agree with Firebird to some extent. Yes, as you've shown, the Hummers out there do have some great capabilities. But, I've been out on the trail with an H1 on a couple occasions. They are lost when the trail gets tight, narrow, or both combined. Thats where a small vehicle like a D90 or Wrangler pays off.

Hell, I could show you all sorts of pictures of Jeeps and LR's going through stuff just as tough as you did with those pics. That doesn't prove much. And by the way, if you look close at that H2 pic, you'll see that its actually being towed through that mud with a winch.

Hilg

 

[1X83Z]

?????

If it debuted in 1985, how the h*** can the oldest ones be 22 then ?.. By my count that'll make them 20 this year and not next year as I said earlier.. (You're not thinking about the Cheetah are you ?.. I belive that was showcased late 84 or early 85 but never produced in numbers..)

Count with me now:

1985 = 1
1986 = 2
1987 = 3
1988 = 4
1989 = 5
1990 = 6
1991 = 7
1992 = 8
1993 = 9
1994 = 10
1995 = 11
1996 = 12
1997 = 13
1998 = 14
1999 = 15
2000 = 16
2001 = 17
2002 = 18
2003 = 19
2004 = 20
2005 = 21
2006 = 22

As I said, the oldest ones are 22 years old. And before you give me crap for putting 2006 down when it's 2005, do remember that the first LM002s were manufactured in 1983 or 1984 for sale for model year 1985, and that likewise model year 2006 began in mid-January. Consequently, my calculation was correct, as was Duke's estimate.

 

[Joey D]

You know, you sound just like someone who bundles all Honda owners as someone who thinks their Civic is the fastest thing around. Are there some fast Hondas out there??? Yes. Are there a lot of people out there who think just because they have a big exhaust their Civic is fast??? Yes. Just because you seem to have had a bad experience with a Jeep owner, you need to know that we aren't all over the top cocky like you think. You sound like an ignorant fool talking like that.

Do I think the Wrangler has some great capabilities??? Sure, of course. But, I understand, like any sane person does, that the thing has limits. Its a good vehicle stock, but it has limits. So, please, just stop with that. You need to understand that just because we bring up some quirks and quibbles with your beloved GM vehicles, thats not us bashing them just because they aren't Jeeps.

Now, on to the Hummer thing. I agree with Firebird to some extent. Yes, as you've shown, the Hummers out there do have some great capabilities. But, I've been out on the trail with an H1 on a couple occasions. They are lost when the trail gets tight, narrow, or both combined. Thats where a small vehicle like a D90 or Wrangler pays off.

Hell, I could show you all sorts of pictures of Jeeps and LR's going through stuff just as tough as you did with those pics. That doesn't prove much. And by the way, if you look close at that H2 pic, you'll see that its actually being towed through that mud with a winch.

Hilg

90% of Jeep owners have the God complex, I say 90% because I'm sure there are some out there, I just haven't met them yet....unless they are a daddy's girl who owns a red Jeep Liberty. I think most Jeep owners are asshats...or I should say the ones that go off road (dirt roads mostly) are asshats.

People seem to think Wranglers can go through anything an everything, I think Cherokee owners are worse though. Just because your truck can go down a muddy road doens't mean anything, my lowrider Blazer can make it down a muddy road.

Yes the Hummer has issues, like gas mileage, price, and things like that, but it is far more versitile off the pavement then a Jeep can ever dream off.

Firebird stated that the Hummer could not go up inclines, rock crawl, and other things to that extent, I merely showed it could. I know other vehicles out there can do that, but some of those situations were pretty hairy.

Hummers can go down tight trails, they just tend to push nature around a bit when they do so.

 

[Flerbizky]

Count with me now:

1985 = 1
1986 = 2
1987 = 3
1988 = 4
1989 = 5
1990 = 6
1991 = 7
1992 = 8
1993 = 9
1994 = 10
1995 = 11
1996 = 12
1997 = 13
1998 = 14
1999 = 15
2000 = 16
2001 = 17
2002 = 18
2003 = 19
2004 = 20
2005 = 21
2006 = 22

As I said, the oldest ones are 22 years old. And before you give me crap for putting 2006 down when it's 2005, do remember that the first LM002s were manufactured in 1983 or 1984 for sale for model year 1985, and that likewise model year 2006 began in mid-January. Consequently, my calculation was correct, as was Duke's estimate.

I am terribly sorry if I sounded like I was giving you crap - That has NEVER been my intention - NEVER.. I'll wonder off now - Sorry...

 

[Danny]

I agree with what you're saying, but I'd like to point out that it's being pulled by something else.

Or, it's pulling something into the mud.

Don't go all flamey on me now,

 

[JNasty4G63]

I think most Jeep owners are asshats...or I should say the ones that go off road (dirt roads mostly) are asshats.

You sound like the "asshat" right now. I'm sorry someone with a Jeep made you so mad that you now hate everyone that owns one. And, I'm sorry that you have your nose so far up GM's ass that you can't see anything else but them being good. Its kind of sad, really.

Yes the Hummer has issues, like gas mileage, price, and things like that, but it is far more versitile off the pavement then a Jeep can ever dream off.

Again, I don't want to try and question your holy GM off-road machine, but they aren't as good as you think. Yes, they have 4WD, big tires, short overhangs, and good clearance. But, they are also 2-1/2ft longer than a Wrangler, 1-1/2ft wider, 3ft longer wheelbase, and have a terrible 50ft turning radius.

Maybe to you, that doesn't mean anything. But, the bigger and heavier you make the thing doesn't mean it can just go through things like you think. There are many trails and areas that we go to around here where things even as large as a Grand Cherokee won't fit, let alone a giant lug like an H1. They have amazing capabilities when crossing a desert, or a river, and things like that. But, for the hard, tight, tecnical stuff, they are not good.

Hummers can go down tight trails, they just tend to push nature around a bit when they do so.

Have fun pushing nature around in spots like these. These aren't the tightest, or hardest spots. But, even you should be able to see that an H1 would go nowhere in spots like this....

Hilg

 

[TwinTurboJay]

I have been off roading ALOT, and I swear, the best vehical I've been in for off road trails has been a 1978 VW Rabbit diesel with a 5 " lift kit and now tires. nothing else could touch what that little car could do, and my stepdad had a small little winch in the front, neve had to use it!

 

[Young_Warrior]

The test videos are even crazier...those trucks can make it up inclines like that no with little to no problems.

You should see what modern london buses are capable of

 

[Joey D]

You sound like the "asshat" right now. I'm sorry someone with a Jeep made you so mad that you now hate everyone that owns one. And, I'm sorry that you have your nose so far up GM's ass that you can't see anything else but them being good. Its kind of sad, really.

How do I have my nose up GM's ass? There is a lof of crap GM makes that I just hate. The GMT 800 (full-sized trucks) are crap, the Tahoe and things like that aren't great, the Buick line blows, the G6 sucks, do you need me to continue? The only good things to come outta GM is the Caddy line, the Vette, the small SUV (VUE), and few other things.

If I was going to buy a full size I would get a Tundra, so don't confuse me for someone who is brand loyal.

Again, I don't want to try and question your holy GM off-road machine, but they aren't as good as you think. Yes, they have 4WD, big tires, short overhangs, and good clearance. But, they are also 2-1/2ft longer than a Wrangler, 1-1/2ft wider, 3ft longer wheelbase, and have a terrible 50ft turning radius.

Maybe to you, that doesn't mean anything. But, the bigger and heavier you make the thing doesn't mean it can just go through things like you think. There are many trails and areas that we go to around here where things even as large as a Grand Cherokee won't fit, let alone a giant lug like an H1. They have amazing capabilities when crossing a desert, or a river, and things like that. But, for the hard, tight, tecnical stuff, they are not good.

I never said a Jeep was bad, I just said the Hummer is good.

Have fun pushing nature around in spots like these. These aren't the tightest, or hardest spots. But, even you should be able to see that an H1 would go nowhere in spots like this....

The military is able to get through anything with the Humvee, thats good enough for me. But like I said I think off roading is pointless.

 

[skip0110]

How do I have my nose up GM's ass? There is a lof of crap GM makes that I just hate. The GMT 800 (full-sized trucks) are crap, the Tahoe and things like that aren't great, the Buick line blows, the G6 sucks, do you need me to continue? The only good things to come outta GM is the Caddy line, the Vette, the small SUV (VUE), and few other things.

You do realize that the H2 is just a slightly modified and rebodied Tahoe?

 

[TwinTurboJay]

You do realize that the H2 is just a slightly modified and rebodied Tahoe?

It doest matter what components it was made of, it the end product, and the H2 is a very competent off roader. period.

 

[Firebird]

I have been off roading ALOT, and I swear, the best vehical I've been in for off road trails has been a 1978 VW Rabbit diesel with a 5 " lift kit and now tires. nothing else could touch what that little car could do, and my stepdad had a small little winch in the front, neve had to use it!

The VW Iltis: essentially a lifted Rabbit with the 4WD system that later spawned quattro, is a little monster offroad.

They devour terrain. They're damn near unstoppable.

 

[Young_Warrior]

The VW Iltis: essentially a lifted Rabbit with the 4WD system that later spawned quattro, is a little monster offroad.

They devour terrain. They're damn near unstoppable.

Spawned quattro my ass

 

[Flerbizky]

Spawned quattro my ass

Au contraire my young friend... Look up the history of the Quattro..

It starts something like this :

"See son - It all started on an Audi test drive.. Some Jesus forgotten place in the middle of winter in the north of Finland.. We had these top of the line Audis having a really hard time in the snow on icy roads - Yet this 80Bhp VW Iltis had no trouble keeping up........."

I kid you not !...

 

[Joey D]

You do realize that the H2 is just a slightly modified and rebodied Tahoe?

It uses some parts, but there is a lot different mainly in the suspension.

 

[JNasty4G63]

But like I said I think off roading is pointless.

Then why even get involved in the discussion??? You obviously only have 2nd hand knowledge of the stuff, otherwise you'd really know whats up with the H1. Its a great, burly, rugged machine. But, its not the best thing ever. Just because the military uses it, doesn't make it better than everything out there.

So really, why even post here???? I think low riders and mini trucks are pointless, but you don't see me getting all up in your business when you post about them. If you don't enjoy the topic at hand, just don't post. Its simple. I enjoy my Jeep, I enjoy off-roading, and I enjoy just seeing what the thing can do. Thus, I posted in here. Your truck could get stuck driving over a Coke can, why should we even listen to you in this thread???

Hilg

 

[Joey D]

I used to work on the 800 program, I'm getting swtiched to the 900 program. I know what the trucks can do because I worked on them before. I've designed brakets on the trucks, so I know whats up. Trust me it isn't second hand knowledge. Plus people I know are Jeepers, and I've been with them off roading.

I don't see how lowriding can be pointless on a 2wd truck that isn't meant for off pavement use. If I lowered a 4x4 then you could wonder. But I cant drive over anything on the road, its just I have to slow down. It's no big deal.

But why should you listen to me? I know about the trucks and the competitors. But what do I know, I just work on the damn things.

 

[JNasty4G63]

I don't see how lowriding can be pointless on a 2wd truck that isn't meant for off pavement use. If I lowered a 4x4 then you could wonder.

Then why is it pointless for us to go off-roading with something with 4WD and was built for it??? You say you don't like it, and its pointless. I say the same thing about lowriding. Get my point??? We all have hobbies. What if I came in here and started saying that everyone with a lowered Blazer or S10 is an cockface, and they all think their stuff don't stink??? What would you say then??? See how you sound?? Its just ignorant. We all have things we like. But, to just dump on a whole group of people because of a car they drive is just lame.

But why should you listen to me? I know about the trucks and the competitors. But what do I know, I just work on the damn things.

Yea, you also called all Jeep owners "asshats" and said we all have a "god complex" about our vehicles. Thats why. You sound like a know-nothing hater, thats all. You like low, road-scraping trucks. And thats fine. Again, its your hobby. But, that would be like me, the DSM driver, going into an F-body forum and telling people I know whats best for going fast on a Camaro. I'm not into the F-body scene, I don't know crap about them, so I stay the hell out of it.

And, fine, you've done work on the trucks. Thats great and all, but you said yourself, you don't off-road. So, your word when it comes to whats good and bad is just 2nd hand info from what other people say and tell you. If you ACTUALLY did get out there on a regular basis, you would know that the H1 is far from great in all the situations you say it excels at. Its a great machine for some situations. But there are other vehicles that would leave it for dead in some other different situations.

Hilg

 

[Joey D]

Then why is it pointless for us to go off-roading with something with 4WD and was built for it??? You say you don't like it, and its pointless. I say the same thing about lowriding. Get my point??? We all have hobbies. What if I came in here and started saying that everyone with a lowered Blazer or S10 is an cockface, and they all think their stuff don't stink??? What would you say then??? See how you sound?? Its just ignorant. We all have things we like. But, to just dump on a whole group of people because of a car they drive is just lame.

Actually about 90% of mini truckers I've met are asshats, I hate hanging out with mini truckers, because I'm not bagged I'm not accepted.

Yea, you also called all Jeep owners "asshats" and said we all have a "god complex" about our vehicles. Thats why. You sound like a know-nothing hater, thats all. You like low, road-scraping trucks. And thats fine. Again, its your hobby. But, that would be like me, the DSM driver, going into an F-body forum and telling people I know whats best for going fast on a Camaro. I'm not into the F-body scene, I don't know crap about them, so I stay the hell out of it.

Most Jeep owners do have a God complex about their vehicles, I'm just making an obsevation because a lot of people in Michigan drive Jeeps, whether it be Wranglers or Cherokees. And I can make comments on stuff, I know what I'm talking about. I didn't wake up yesterday and deside that I like trucks. Guys in my car club have lifted trucks, and I've lifted my fair share of S-10's and Blazer's. Body lifts, suspesions lifts...I know how to do it.

And, fine, you've done work on the trucks. Thats great and all, but you said yourself, you don't off-road. So, your word when it comes to whats good and bad is just 2nd hand info from what other people say and tell you. If you ACTUALLY did get out there on a regular basis, you would know that the H1 is far from great in all the situations you say it excels at. Its a great machine for some situations. But there are other vehicles that would leave it for dead in some other different situations.

I know what the Hummer is capiable of, when given to someone who can drive it. It's not second hand information, its calculated data on my computer screen from tests that they preformed in Mesa, AZ. The Hummer can do everything a Cherokee can do, a Wrangler can do, a Land Rover can do...the only thing I can think of that can do more is that old Toyota thing.

 

[skip0110]

I know what the Hummer is capiable of, when given to someone who can drive it. It's not second hand information, its calculated data on my computer screen from tests that they preformed in Mesa, AZ. The Hummer can do everything a Cherokee can do, a Wrangler can do, a Land Rover can do...the only thing I can think of that can do more is that old Toyota thing.

Surprise, surprise...a GM funded test finds the Hummers to be excellent offroad. Who would'a thunk it?

You need to look at a third party source. I don't know any off-roading magazines, though.


And with regard to my H2/Tahoe comment, I was not making a judgement about the off road ability of either, I was just pointing out that it's hypocritical to like the H2 but dislike the Tahoe, Blazin.

 

[Joey D]

No it's just computer test data, they hook up computers to the truck and beat the piss outta it. They measure things like suspension travel, grip, all sorts of stuff.

The Tahoe and H2 only share a motor and a frame really...the driveline and suspension are different

 

[JNasty4G63]

.....And I can make comments on stuff, I know what I'm talking about.

Could have fooled me.

I know what the Hummer is capiable of, when given to someone who can drive it. It's not second hand information, its calculated data on my computer screen from tests that they preformed in Mesa, AZ. The Hummer can do everything a Cherokee can do, a Wrangler can do, a Land Rover can do...the only thing I can think of that can do more is that old Toyota thing.

But, you see, thats just it. Mesa isn't what you'll find everywhere. YOU haven't done it, or seen it happen. Just because your computer tells you a Hummer can do something, you seem to think everything else is incapable of keeping up. I've seen many times, just around here where the off-roading isn't tough, certain situations where an H1 was just hopeless. They're just too big to do everything.

But no, to you the computer says they rule. So, it must have been a mirage I saw, right??? It was actually a big Bronco, or something I must have seen, right??? No, this was an H1, driven by a guy that I've seen get things through places that just shouldn't be done. Capabilities are high for an H1. But, they aren't capable of everything, regardless of the numbers or test data.

Like I said, the H1 is a great vehicle for desert running, river fording, or big large obstacles. Hmmm, just like you'd find in Mesa. But, get out in the woods on some tight switchbacks and other trail situations, and a Wrangler or D90 will just leave it in the dust. None of those vehicles are best in all situations.

Like I said, if you actually got out there, and didn't just read some numbers off your screen, you'd know this, and we might actually put some stock in your opinion. But, as is, unless we want to know how to drop a truck and make it sit on the floor, there isn't much you can say that is worth listening to.

Hilg

 

[Joey D]

Could have fooled me.

Think what you like, thats your choice.

I never once said the Hummer was better then any thing else, I'm basing my information off test data was done by a computer. This shows the limits of the vehicle, given the correct driver the truck could go all out.

In fact here in case you missed it....

I know what the Hummer is capiable of, when given to someone who can drive it. It's not second hand information, its calculated data on my computer screen from tests that they preformed in Mesa, AZ. The Hummer can do everything a Cherokee can do, a Wrangler can do, a Land Rover can do...the only thing I can think of that can do more is that old Toyota thing.

*And I think you are an idiot...you think I'm an idiot...lets just drop it because its not going anywhere.

 

[JNasty4G63]

And I think you are an idiot...you think I'm an idiot...lets just drop it because its not going anywhere.

I don't think you're an idiot. I just think you're drinking too much of the GM Kool-aid. Thats all. Like I said, if you actually got out there, and did some real off-roading on a regular basis, you'd see that the numbers a computer spits out are very irrelevant.

I don't even begin to think that my Wrangler or a D90 can keep up with an H1 in all situations. But, you seem to think the H1 can keep with them in every possible situation. Thats where I have problem. Thats all. Your viewpoint on all this is just not from where I want to be seeing things from, regardless of where you work, or who signs your paychecks.

Hilg

 

[Joey D]

I hate a lot of GM, I by no means love the company I work for...I just go to work everyday beacuse I have bills to pay and an excentric lifestyle I like to stay with. I drive a Chevy because I get GM products cheap. If there is a GM product I don't like I will say it, but if they make something good I'll tell you.

I'm going to trust the computer data because well its the physical limits of the truck...if I was a compedient driver when it came to off roading I'm sure I could test the limits. The most off roading I've done was driving a Toyota Tundra down a muddy road to hunting camp.

I don't plan to off road ever, because I don't see the point.

 

[JNasty4G63]

I don't plan to off road ever, because I don't see the point.

You should have just started with this statement, and we could have gotten over this much earlier. You don't do it, so why we should listen to what you say is beyond me. End of story.

Hilg

 

[Joey D]

I'm not even going to start with this again, all I'm going to say is I worked on the truck so I know the limits of it.