The Wheel Inherent Advantage

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Yes, the steering input has some kind of limitation that I cant put in words, somehow like a limiter depending on your speed or of this sort.

That seems to be different for different corners, some corners you can push the analogue stick all the way and only get 80% steering angle, on others you push the stick 50% of the way and get 100% steering angle, it's no wonder us pad players are at such a disadvantage with tyre wear.

 

[Meythia]

it's no wonder us pad players are at such a disadvantage with tyre wear.

Im not so sure about that, though as an offline player I lack the experience to compare directly with.
The controller is telling you when you are wasting tyres and lose speed, it will start to produce a certain type of vibration - different to curbstones - on flat tarmac. When this happens you know are using too much steering input and overusing tyres + having less acceleration. By the name though I remember you to be an online racer that has been on Barry R´s best friends YT sometimes, so if in doubt I think your words carries more weight.

 

[hawkeyez]

I do agree that the debate will never be over, just like controller versus keyboard and mouse.

long distance sniping? Mouse 100%
close combat? Controller 100%

They are two totally different ways of playing a game. If I could somehow aim on call of duty with a “gun” controller I’d be happier. The mouse is about as close as we can get for now, which I don’t use anymore because I’m on console now. It just makes sense to me to play a racing game with wheels and pedals. You wouldn’t want to play rockband drums tapping buttons with your nose, the drumset makes much more sense.

 

[mellofello9]

For fun the other day I ran a race using the controller because I was sitting on the couch making a livery and didn’t feel like going to the wheel. There’s things you can get away with that you can’t get away with on a wheel. I much prefer the wheel and I’m not as good with the controller anymore. My dad and brother and I used to race when it first came out, I didn’t have a wheel and I noticed something. Things like the 911 Porsche, I was GONE! But take the Boss 429 mustang and I had a hell of a time keeping up.

I couldn’t put the power down with the controller driving the boss 429 but I could slide the 911 through every corner and they’d just spin out. Once I got a wheel, I was a bit slower at first but we were having closer races with any cars.

I think with the Porsche I had immediate countersteering. With the mustang, powering out of a corner, I had immediate countersteering and I’d just have a hard time straightening the car out.

I may have posted this before but, I'm old so kinda used to repeating myself...my biggest challenge with a controller (I think) is race nerves. You got a LOT going on and a lot to manage to keep 💩 right, and all through just your fingers. Normally not too bad BUT, and once the nerves/adrenaline kick-in, hands start to shake. This simply does NOT work-out when TINY inputs send your car 20 feet to the left. Besides, I've been training my feet to do the throttle/brake duties for far longer than I've been training the hands.😁

 

[hawkeyez]

I may have posted this before but, I'm old so kinda used to repeating myself...my biggest challenge with a controller (I think) is race nerves. You got a LOT going on and a lot to manage to keep 💩 right, and all through just your fingers. Normally not too bad BUT, and once the nerves/adrenaline kick-in, hands start to shake. This simply does NOT work-out when TINY inputs send your car 20 feet to the left. Besides, I've been training my feet to do the throttle/brake duties for far longer than I've been training the hands.😁

Even with a wheel, somebody closing in on me while I’m in first I still screw up. Don’t get me wrong I could race fine with a controller and a lot of times depending on the car I was smooth as butter and a lot faster to the point the race wasn’t really even fun for me. Watching everyone else battling it out 45 seconds behind me. But switch cars, trying my hardest, all I would think is, I want a wheel… I’m either way ahead or way behind. Got a wheel and within a week or two it was close quarters most races. So much more fun and just driving is so much more fun.
I do get your point, I’ve been steering with my hands not my thumbs for much longer too haha

 

[breeminator]

If I could somehow aim on call of duty with a “gun” controller I’d be happier.

Those used to exist when TVs were CRTs! I had Namco's Time Crisis which came with a gun that you pointed at the screen. It was pretty accurate and great fun.

 

[hawkeyez]

Those used to exist when TVs were CRTs! I had Namco's Time Crisis which came with a gun that you pointed at the screen. It was pretty accurate and great fun.

We had duck hunt, we were ok at it. Our grandpa tried it and we were blown away as kids how good he was, I can’t even remember what level he got to but we couldn’t even get close it. He also just shot from the hip to like a high noon quick draw. I guess now we have that with some vr games.

 

[Pizzapants]

Agreed, but it's not quite all or nothing binary digital either. It's actually not a bad compromise for non-analog controllers when implemented with the correct delay (and possibly a difference in delay between "press" & "release") and has been used on many driving and flying games successfully over the several decades of this type of game.
I fully agree that's it's a big disadvantage when compared to true variable inputs though.

Stop. It’s literally not an analog input. It literally is all-or-nothing binary digital, regardless of what the software does with that input.

 

[Amotkram]

Some many variables. Certainly, they have to tune the gameplay for each type of device so that the device has the potential to consistently approximate what would be the "perfect" physics for best possible lap times. With the wheel (and pedals) the game engine needs less adjustments in response to input because the range of move allows motor control to be more precise. Hence it is often noticed that using wheel it is more consistent. With the controller if they applied the same response, the needed fine motor control of the hands (not impossible) would be very difficult to achieve consistently. And well we don't want to lose customers because they don't want to buy wheel and pedals, so they make a wider range of adjustments in response to input to make it a little easier to be consistence. To that end controller users inevitably figure out ways to take advantage of adjustments to get more speed. The challenge is to adjust for consistency and not open up ridiculous cheats because of the adjustments. The result is somethings are easier or more difficult on each device.

Consistently getting to the optimal steering angle for a given corner: Wheel
Consistently getting to the optimal throttle level for accelerating out of a corner: Pedal
Consistently getting to the optimal braking level into a corner: Pedal

Controller: find the cheats that allow you to do things that they wheel/pedal driver cannot do. Like one cheat that makes a huge difference is if you use non-trigger button for throttle then rapid on/off throttle while braking that and it brakes so much faster. And with exiting (when full throttle is not optimum) you rapid on/off throttle and so you accelerate while enacting a sharper turn. Exiting if on throttle (depending on car setup) the car understeers or pushes and off throttle the car turns so the cheat is you get a rapid succession of both in a short amount of time. There are move but maybe they change the physics for the controller if I shed light on them all.

Controller is easier to start on. You only need to coordinate your 2 hands which you have a lifetime of experience doing and already have some fine motor control skills.

Wheel/Pedal harder to start on. Need to coordinate hands, arms and feet. Feet lack fine motor control skills for most unless they trained specifically for it.

Controller is harder at the highest level because you have to do multiple actions in each hand and the range of input is narrower which leaves less margin for error.
Right hand steer, brake and shift
Left hand throttle and shift.

Wheel/Pedals are easier at the highest level because consistent precision is easier because of the wider range of input. And generally each part performs only 1 action.
Arms steer
Hands shift
Left foot brake
Right foot throttle.

Because of ease to start and mostly cost there will be more controller users.
Because of ease of consistency there will be more wheel/pedal users at the top levels.
Because of the cheats that are enabled from the adjustments for the controllers, the majority that is the wheel users at the top levels will band together and force the organizers to ban the controller in the finals.

 

[SnakeEyes427]

Tail as old as time.
Song as old as rhythm.
Wheel or controller. 🤣

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Im not so sure about that, though as an offline player I lack the experience to compare directly with.
The controller is telling you when you are wasting tyres and lose speed, it will start to produce a certain type of vibration - different to curbstones - on flat tarmac. When this happens you know are using too much steering input and overusing tyres + having less acceleration. By the name though I remember you to be an online racer that has been on Barry R´s best friends YT sometimes, so if in doubt I think your words carries more weight.

The vibration definitely helps but from personal experience you only really feel that once you're already damaging the front tyres, I was trying to look at the little red dot above the rev counter to see what inputs the game was sending to the car and how they compared to what I was putting into the controller. It is very possible that I'm just not accurate to find the right amount of steering angle, others on controller seem to be managing the issues a lot better than I can.

 

[Meythia]

The vibration definitely helps but from personal experience you only really feel that once you're already damaging the front tyres, I was trying to look at the little red dot above the rev counter to see what inputs the game was sending to the car and how they compared to what I was putting into the controller. It is very possible that I'm just not accurate to find the right amount of steering angle, others on controller seem to be managing the issues a lot better than I can.

You are definitly correct on only feeling this when its already too late - as far as I understand it, this is how it really works;
Im not a fast driver IRL, nor track driver at all, so no basis to my point other than it being stuff I have read and hope to understand correctly.

But in case of the game it is not simply related only to the red dot, you can have fast corners with 100% red dot direction without vibration and slow corners with the same input but eating your tyres, though this cant always be prevented with a racing speed.
It is about finding the sweet spot of trajectory of the car, velocity and steering input for changing the trajectory.
On the sweetspot you can carry maximum speed, just a bit too much steering input will not take you inside but instead push you out, but before that happens, the controller will start to vibrate and losening up on throttle will catch the car.

Small connection to the video I posted before:
In Run 1 with the attempted maximum input that the game is not allowing, I will destroy my tyres.
In Run 2 with the lesser amount of input, tyres will be spared and the acceleration and stability is better.

But maybe I just have a natural knack for keeping healthy tyres, on the Tokyo grinding threat some people complained about tyrewear on the Ferrari Testarossa, I didnt see any issue with it.

 

[skidmark69]

I think in GT7 the majority of people reach a skill ceiling way before they reach the true limits of controller or wheel, and the difference between the two isn't big enough that you're leaving a lot of time on the table by using one over the other unless you are at the very highest level.

I started the game on controller and then moved to wheel, and my pace is pretty similar on both (not blazing fast, but I have golded everything in game, and can usually gold the fortnightly time trials with not too much effort).

I would say there are a couple things wheel/pedal is objectively better at:
1. Tyre wear. It just wears faster on controller for some reason.
2. High speed cars. Wheel makes small adjustments in steering more consistent, and also lets you make big changes in steering angle more quickly. There is a formula which gradually changes steering angle for controller in response to analogue stick input, and at high speeds it seems to result in slower changes than on wheel.

I would put throttle and brake control on that list, but I think you can be as good/precise on controller as you can be on pedals, it just requires more skill.

I think catching slides/oversteer is a lot easier on controller.

 

[Redneckchef]

Some many variables. Certainly, they have to tune the gameplay for each type of device so that the device has the potential to consistently approximate what would be the "perfect" physics for best possible lap times. With the wheel (and pedals) the game engine needs less adjustments in response to input because the range of move allows motor control to be more precise. Hence it is often noticed that using wheel it is more consistent. With the controller if they applied the same response, the needed fine motor control of the hands (not impossible) would be very difficult to achieve consistently. And well we don't want to lose customers because they don't want to buy wheel and pedals, so they make a wider range of adjustments in response to input to make it a little easier to be consistence. To that end controller users inevitably figure out ways to take advantage of adjustments to get more speed. The challenge is to adjust for consistency and not open up ridiculous cheats because of the adjustments. The result is somethings are easier or more difficult on each device.

Consistently getting to the optimal steering angle for a given corner: Wheel
Consistently getting to the optimal throttle level for accelerating out of a corner: Pedal
Consistently getting to the optimal braking level into a corner: Pedal

Controller: find the cheats that allow you to do things that they wheel/pedal driver cannot do. Like one cheat that makes a huge difference is if you use non-trigger button for throttle then rapid on/off throttle while braking that and it brakes so much faster. And with exiting (when full throttle is not optimum) you rapid on/off throttle and so you accelerate while enacting a sharper turn. Exiting if on throttle (depending on car setup) the car understeers or pushes and off throttle the car turns so the cheat is you get a rapid succession of both in a short amount of time. There are move but maybe they change the physics for the controller if I shed light on them all.

Controller is easier to start on. You only need to coordinate your 2 hands which you have a lifetime of experience doing and already have some fine motor control skills.

Wheel/Pedal harder to start on. Need to coordinate hands, arms and feet. Feet lack fine motor control skills for most unless they trained specifically for it.

Controller is harder at the highest level because you have to do multiple actions in each hand and the range of input is narrower which leaves less margin for error.
Right hand steer, brake and shift
Left hand throttle and shift.

Wheel/Pedals are easier at the highest level because consistent precision is easier because of the wider range of input. And generally each part performs only 1 action.
Arms steer
Hands shift
Left foot brake
Right foot throttle.

Because of ease to start and mostly cost there will be more controller users.
Because of ease of consistency there will be more wheel/pedal users at the top levels.
Because of the cheats that are enabled from the adjustments for the controllers, the majority that is the wheel users at the top levels will band together and force the organizers to ban the controller in the finals.

Stop calling this stuff cheats. It's not cheating if it's standard installed in the game and the users can't actually control it. And to your point about banning controllers, PD already does that at live events. All users are forced to use a wheel regardless of how they played before they got there.

If you want to see how these "cheats" work try taking the hairpin in Daily A at Maggiore West. The steering limiter means the controller is self centering on steering input, normally an advantage for a controller. But you can't override this. The quick corrections a wheel user can make aren't always available on controller as the limiter steps in. That hairpin on Maggiore you have to take a much wider line as even with countersteering you cannot get the wheels straight nearly as quick as a wheel user. The limiter flat out stops you. Same was true in the Super Formula at Suzuka. Due to the extreme delay in steering input I was turning right in a left hand corner in the esses because of how limiting things were. I refused to run the race because I was basically having to try qualifying laps by pre-guessing what was needed next. If I waited to turn when a wheel user could then I drove straight off track.

Yes these are sometimes helpful, but throttle control is still needed the same and can be harder with that small tiny range on the controller. These assists tend to make us controller users eat tires and have to make strange adjustments to actually fight the car to get it to do what wheel users can do easily.

I'd love a wheel but my situation means it isn't happening any time soon so I race with what I can. And mostly race with wheel users in leagues who haven't complained about my driving and mostly enjoy knowing that my tires will die a lap or more before theirs do.

 

[mellofello9]

There's another HUGE benefit to using a controller that nobody admits...it feels kinda nice finishing P1 in A+/S grids full of wheels.😁

 

[ILLEAGLE_34]

Stop. It’s literally not an analog input. It literally is all-or-nothing binary digital, regardless of what the software does with that input.

Dude your replying to a year old comment 🧐 STOP 😜

 

[Dmaune1]

It's about time those of you that use wheels stop lying to yourselves & starting accepting that the racing wheels have an inherent advantage over the controllers. They always have & always will.

You can be low A/S driver skill/ability wise, & easily compete with higher A/S maybe even low A+/S drivers on pads.

Basically, once you get fully adjusted to the wheel (& This could take days, or weeks or months, it's varied & certainly not an easy transition)... You will always be able to lunch above your weight skill wise until you start coming across other wheel users.

I've said it for years, sport mode should split the playerbase further by hardware...or at the very least, give us the OPTION, of joining timeslots & selecting our hardware so that we get matched with others using the same equipment.

Or maybe not selecting because you'd 100% get wheel users looking for low skill easy wins. But seen as it's a first party game I'm almost certain they could detect the hardware you're on, & then do some kind of check again a few times mid race to make sure nobody switches over.

That's all semantics anyway.

It's time for wheel users to stop trying to lie to themselves & pretend that the wheel isn't "that much of an advantage" so that they can feel good about winning raced Vs controllers.

The wheel is a giant advantage, and that gap has clearly increased on GT7.
Here are some of the advantages to using a wheel:

• Wheels have way finer controls, allowing for more precise inputs on the throttle, brakes & steering...
• They have a much better ability to rotate the car & easily maintain control...it's no surprise that literally all the top lap times every week feature dumb powersliding into every corner & they're all wheel users (yes I've asked them).
• Much better tyre wear. Controllers still have issues with bad tyre wear
• Related to the finer controls, they're FAR less prone to making mistakes. Racing at the top end against wheel users on a controller is ridiculously difficult & feels like you're on a knife edge at all times. The margin for error on controller (all assists off apart from abs, & using manual) is TINY.
• No stick drift! Yet another issue with controllers, especially the Dualsense, is the horrendous stick drift after a few months (4 controllers replaced already)

The only advantage of using a controller is the lack of fatigue. Depending on how you're set up, I can imagine some longer races would fatigue some people on a wheel, whereas a controller is all in the fingers so there's zero fatigue even after a few hours.

Time to put an end to the defensive myth spread by wheel users. No it's not an even playing field, yes you do have a significant advantage, & yes you should be forced to play against others with the same equipment. I don't care if it cuts the playerbase down... There's definitely more than 16 people in each major region using wheels, so there's at least one full session.

Oh, I almost forgot... Tracks with camber

Yes wheek users, not only do you have an inherent hardware advantage, but it's even more pronounced on tracks with camber. Because even on max sensitivity controller users stueggle to rotate the car on cambered corners.

I'd love the top pros do a mixed championship where half of them have to use wheels, & the other half controllers , & then mix it up & just see how they all perform to finally spread the word to all the delusional wheel users out there.

I'm sure you'll all enjoy reading everything I left here for you, I look forward to reading all your lovely little replies.

The only thing I've ever found to be easier on controller is drifting. Everything else is wheel 100% no contest.

 

[colddeadhands]

It's about time those of you that use wheels stop lying to yourselves & starting accepting that the racing wheels have an inherent advantage over the controllers. They always have & always will.

You can be low A/S driver skill/ability wise, & easily compete with higher A/S maybe even low A+/S drivers on pads.

Basically, once you get fully adjusted to the wheel (& This could take days, or weeks or months, it's varied & certainly not an easy transition)... You will always be able to lunch above your weight skill wise until you start coming across other wheel users.

I've said it for years, sport mode should split the playerbase further by hardware...or at the very least, give us the OPTION, of joining timeslots & selecting our hardware so that we get matched with others using the same equipment.

Or maybe not selecting because you'd 100% get wheel users looking for low skill easy wins. But seen as it's a first party game I'm almost certain they could detect the hardware you're on, & then do some kind of check again a few times mid race to make sure nobody switches over.

That's all semantics anyway.

It's time for wheel users to stop trying to lie to themselves & pretend that the wheel isn't "that much of an advantage" so that they can feel good about winning raced Vs controllers.

The wheel is a giant advantage, and that gap has clearly increased on GT7.
Here are some of the advantages to using a wheel:

• Wheels have way finer controls, allowing for more precise inputs on the throttle, brakes & steering...
• They have a much better ability to rotate the car & easily maintain control...it's no surprise that literally all the top lap times every week feature dumb powersliding into every corner & they're all wheel users (yes I've asked them).
• Much better tyre wear. Controllers still have issues with bad tyre wear
• Related to the finer controls, they're FAR less prone to making mistakes. Racing at the top end against wheel users on a controller is ridiculously difficult & feels like you're on a knife edge at all times. The margin for error on controller (all assists off apart from abs, & using manual) is TINY.
• No stick drift! Yet another issue with controllers, especially the Dualsense, is the horrendous stick drift after a few months (4 controllers replaced already)

The only advantage of using a controller is the lack of fatigue. Depending on how you're set up, I can imagine some longer races would fatigue some people on a wheel, whereas a controller is all in the fingers so there's zero fatigue even after a few hours.

Time to put an end to the defensive myth spread by wheel users. No it's not an even playing field, yes you do have a significant advantage, & yes you should be forced to play against others with the same equipment. I don't care if it cuts the playerbase down... There's definitely more than 16 people in each major region using wheels, so there's at least one full session.

Oh, I almost forgot... Tracks with camber

Yes wheek users, not only do you have an inherent hardware advantage, but it's even more pronounced on tracks with camber. Because even on max sensitivity controller users stueggle to rotate the car on cambered corners.

I'd love the top pros do a mixed championship where half of them have to use wheels, & the other half controllers , & then mix it up & just see how they all perform to finally spread the word to all the delusional wheel users out there.

I'm sure you'll all enjoy reading everything I left here for you, I look forward to reading all your lovely little replies.

Apparently you haven't raced any pad drivers worth their salt and still say that wheel users have this "inherent" advantage you were talking about. I'm not being an ass I'm just stating facts. I'll drop names for you if you want, go to GTSRL and ask for FD3SSpiritR, or add his PSN and race Sol_Invictus_90. Pad users with otherworldly speed. When I race FD at GTSRL I start questioning my life decisions such as why did I spend this much on my current wheel and rig setup?

 

[Blayney]

We have a few controller users in the time trial thread that are regularly in the top 50 (even top 10 in one case) for the two weekly sport mode time trial. You can be very competitive on controller on this game.

 

[DefInfinity]

Apparently you haven't raced any pad drivers worth their salt and still say that wheel users have this "inherent" advantage you were talking about. I'm not being an ass I'm just stating facts. I'll drop names for you if you want, go to GTSRL and ask for FD3SSpiritR, or add his PSN and race Sol_Invictus_90. Pad users with otherworldly speed. When I race FD at GTSRL I start questioning my life decisions such as why did I spend this much on my current wheel and rig setup?

I guess this would happen if their point of reference for wheel drivers were just A+ Fanatec DD users or something. And its not even like the wheel matters that much anyway. At a high level most of the pace is going to come from how they are using the pedals rather than the wheel, if their setup is ergonomically sound, how much they practiced for an event, etc. The amount of time they spend preparing for a GTWS event once its announced is not insignificant and its most likely going to be on a wheel that they actually enjoy using.

Still, there is the problem with tire wear on pad. Cant deny that. I cannot see a way around that without some sort of add on like KontrolFreeks.

[...] I'd love the top pros do a mixed championship where half of them have to use wheels, & the other half controllers , & then mix it up & just see how they all perform to finally spread the word to all the delusional wheel users out there. [...]

Funny thing about having half the pros on pad and half of them on wheel: most of them are not going to be quick on pad because they have not touched a controller for racing in any serious way in years. To make matters worse, many pros have real-life racing experience to back up their wheel skills, which is a lot more reinforcing than just being a hobbiest that happens to pick up a racing game and controller every once in a while.
-
Slightly unrelated anecdote: Back when Driveclub was a thing, I used to time trial a lot on a pad and managed to snatch a few top leaderboard records for a few cars (CTR3, X-Bow, etc) using both the motion sensor and the sticks/triggers. When I returned to the game a few years later on an FFB wheel, I was not even remotely close to a top time. Maybe top 50 or 100 at most. Currently, I cant play very well on gamepad anymore using either method after 3 years on a T150 and about 2 years on a T80.

Experience matters. If you spend any significant amount of time from any peripheral you will lose the ability to use it effectively.

 

[Meythia]

Still, there is the problem with tire wear on pad. Cant deny that. I cannot see a way around that without some sort of add on like KontrolFreeks.

The additional settings of the Edge Controller might lessen this gap.
Though I am not commited enough to practice for long enough to make a difference in inputs of
linear steering angle

vs adjusted steering angle

or less adjusted steering angle

 

[hawkeyez]

The additional settings of the Edge Controller might lessen this gap.
Though I am not commited enough to practice for long enough to make a difference in inputs of
linear steering angle
View attachment 1249641 vs adjusted steering angle
View attachment 1249642
or less adjusted steering angle
View attachment 1249643

That edge controller in Canada is $260+tax. I’ve seen G29’s go on sale for almost that price. Sure you can play other games with the edge but I would be buying one just to get an edge on racing when you could get a used wheel for the same price.

 

[Meythia]

That edge controller in Canada is $260+tax. I’ve seen G29’s go on sale for almost that price. Sure you can play other games with the edge but I would be buying one just to get an edge on racing when you could get a used wheel for the same price.

That is both easy to follow reasoning as well as somehow silly and funny at the same time.
Sure, I wouldnt buy a 250+ controller just for one game, but the what is wheel? A certain type of controller just for one game. 🙃

But yes, I didnt get it especially for GT7 obviously but for the sheer amount of gametime I have in general, I am really ultra-attached to it already;
having 2 of them to use one while the other is recharging.

 

[DefInfinity]

That edge controller in Canada is $260+tax. I’ve seen G29’s go on sale for almost that price. Sure you can play other games with the edge but I would be buying one just to get an edge on racing when you could get a used wheel for the same price.

Some racing games don’t have adjustable sensitivity settings or wheel support. I feel like it would be very useful there. $260+ sounds a bit much for it, though.

Comparatively, compatibility and adjustability is an issue for entry-level wheels.

You can’t set your preferred rotation settings and FFB profile like with a decent Fanatec rig. The FFB choices are weak and moderately detailed vs strong and clipping. The bundled pedals don’t have a lot of feel/stiffness to help with developing muscle memory either. The mount and rubber grips on the wheel and pedals can end up loose/sliding while in use. The rim can develop deadzones or become wobbly. And so on...

To combat all that requires a bit of money for a proper rig setup or ingenuity... or you can just deal with it. I know a guy who managed to get to A+ with a G29, wooden chair and desk, but he raced IRL, is a driving coach and puts in way more hours than you could expect the average person to do.

 

[hawkeyez]

That is both easy to follow reasoning as well as somehow silly and funny at the same time.
Sure, I wouldnt buy a 250+ controller just for one game, but the what is wheel? A certain type of controller just for one game. 🙃

But yes, I didnt get it especially for GT7 obviously but for the sheer amount of gametime I have in general, I am really ultra-attached to it already;
having 2 of them to use one while the other is recharging.

Not cutting down your purchase decision. I’m sure it’s a nice controller. I wouldn’t be buying one I don’t take myself seriously enough on other types of games to warrant spending $260 on a controller to do the same thing my current controller is capable of doing, for the most part. I don’t care for the extra adjustments and all that. Call of Duty for me with the standard controller is just fine.

So this IS a racing forum, comparing controller vs wheel. I think just factoring in how much more fun it is to drive GT7 with a wheel versus a controller is worth going with a G29 over an Edge.

I don’t think I got faster when I got a wheel, but I got a lot more consistent and I enjoy playing the game a whole lot more than I did with a controller.

My point was, if you’re trying to get an edge over wheel players, and willing to spend $260 to do it, may as well save a little longer and just grab a wheel and enjoy the experience of driving rather than thumb stick steering.

Some racing games don’t have adjustable sensitivity settings or wheel support. I feel like it would be very useful there. $260+ sounds a bit much for it, though.

Comparatively, compatibility and adjustability is an issue for entry-level wheels.

You can’t set your preferred rotation settings and FFB profile like with a decent Fanatec rig. The FFB choices are weak and moderately detailed vs strong and clipping. The bundled pedals don’t have a lot of feel/stiffness to help with developing muscle memory either. The mount and rubber grips on the wheel and pedals can end up loose/sliding while in use. The rim can develop deadzones or become wobbly. And so on...

To combat all that requires a bit of money for a proper rig setup or ingenuity... or you can just deal with it. I know a guy who managed to get to A+ with a G29, wooden chair and desk, but he raced IRL, is a driving coach and puts in way more hours than you could expect the average person to do.

Yeah and I saw a guy snipe somebody on call of duty better than some players I play with use a flute/recorder to controller his character aiming down the sights. If you practice enough you could probably stick your tongue out and steer with it using a controller and beat guys with $3000 rig setups driving GT7. This whole “who has the advantage and who doesn’t“ debate in a way is kind of redundant but I understand, from my experience anyway, in general each has its advantages and disadvantages. Some things I was faster and better at with the controller and some stuff I’m faster and better at with the wheel.

For me, whether I’m faster or slower, I find it’s simply a lot more fun using a wheel no matter the quality (G29 and up) than driving the game with a controller.

 

[Meythia]

So this IS a racing forum, comparing controller vs wheel. I think just factoring in how much more fun it is to drive GT7 with a wheel versus a controller is worth going with a G29 over an Edge.

I dont think anyone is putting any doubts over the decision to buy a wheel as long as the player has a keen interest on racing games.

The Fanatec DD pro is also here, but I cant get the knack on it to practice (same reasoning as before). A bit sad for the dedicated piece of hardware to not being used for its purpose, but at least my dad likes it, so it wasnt wasted on my end - and he cant drive on pads

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I know a guy who managed to get to A+ with a G29, wooden chair and desk

I know more than one guy that made WT on a controller.

 

[DefInfinity]

I know more than one guy that made WT on a controller.

Then it must be looking pretty grim for the G29 gang

 

[hawkeyez]

I dont think anyone is putting any doubts over the decision to buy a wheel as long as the player has a keen interest on racing games.

The Fanatec DD pro is also here, but I cant get the knack on it to practice (same reasoning as before). A bit sad for the dedicated piece of hardware to not being used for its purpose, but at least my dad likes it, so it wasnt wasted on my end - and he cant drive on pads

At least your dad is using it.

I find for some reason a lot of people that get on my wheel drive like a mad man. Haha. I always think, “you wouldn’t drive your car like that why are you driving like that now?” But you hand them a controller and they do better. Blows my mind because most of us drive almost every single day so it’s not like the controls are foreign. I think they just try too hard. They late brake like crazy, they oversteer like crazy and they get on the gas like it’s a button and don’t let off.

I believe what saves them with the controller is being able to correct the oversteering much faster. On a controller sometimes it’s easier to get out of soon to be spin. On a wheel usually once it’s going it going unless you’re super fast to react and catch it before it starts coming around. It seems most people can’t feel the back end coming around when using a wheel. I can see it happening visually and I can hear the tires howling but they just stay in it. On a controller they stay in it but it’s side to side all the way down the straight to the next corner. Haha

I tell them, drive a little slower. Voila suddenly they’ve got better lap times using the wheel.

 

[djolliea]

Some racing games don’t have adjustable sensitivity settings or wheel support. I feel like it would be very useful there. $260+ sounds a bit much for it, though.

Comparatively, compatibility and adjustability is an issue for entry-level wheels.

You can’t set your preferred rotation settings and FFB profile like with a decent Fanatec rig. The FFB choices are weak and moderately detailed vs strong and clipping. The bundled pedals don’t have a lot of feel/stiffness to help with developing muscle memory either. The mount and rubber grips on the wheel and pedals can end up loose/sliding while in use. The rim can develop deadzones or become wobbly. And so on...

To combat all that requires a bit of money for a proper rig setup or ingenuity... or you can just deal with it. I know a guy who managed to get to A+ with a G29, wooden chair and desk, but he raced IRL, is a driving coach and puts in way more hours than you could expect the average person to do.

I managed to reach A+ using a budjet wheel with no Force Feedback and only 270 degree rotation. Since then I've upgraded to T300RS for better experience. When it comes to racing games I'd always choose  any modern wheel over any handheld controller.