The Windows 8 Thread - Surface Tablet Announced

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More things to add that I hate.

Gnome 3 styled shutdown where you have to log out then select shutdown.

How on earth can MS call this a an O/S that is made for Desktops? and I know their main focus is tablets but they say this will be great for desktops.

Only way i can see this working is similar to a Win9x set up during install where you select.

Desktop
Laptop
Tablet
All-in-One

This will enable or disable some aspects and make things more suited to the platform they are to work on.
 
Linux has been around for years and has never been a realistic alternative. Certainly not for home use anyway.

How wrong you are sir. I've been using Ubuntu for near enough 2+ years and it's been great to me. I'm able to play my games like LFS and BMW M3 Challenge seamlessly through WINE and I can even use Photoshop CS5. Ubuntu is now more than ever, a good alternative. Sure there is still some programs like more advanced non-linear video editors and multi-media apps needed but it's is very appropriate for Office use, Home use and even server now although I'd only ever use Gentoo, or CentOS for a server.

Linux is far faster, and safer than Windows and is a great alternative.

Canonical has been churning out products like Ubuntu TV and Ubuntu for Android which are soon to be released sometime next year hopefully.


IMO Windows will always continue to have that security loophole and be a resource hogger. There are so many things wrong with Windows, I'll never go back.

About the Secure Boot question...

Secure Boot is a UEFI enviroment which needs hardware certification using "keys" in the MBR. With Windows 8 certified PC's these keys will be given to the OEMs. The problem with UEFI is that, if Microsoft do force Secure Boot, the OEMs will be have no option but to allow the option to be disabled.

There will be a limited number of safe boot signatures... and once they've been cracked, malware writers will find a way to sign their own code with the Win8 signatures, totally defeating the added security from bootable code.

Now I'm no expert on how safeboot works, but one thing is certain... time and time again, the virus/malware writers have proven themselves smarter and more capable than M$, so I know who I'd bet on. ;)

And once it's shown not to work, and does nothing more than cause Windows users issues, I don't think people will have much of a problem disabling the so called "secure boot" feature .. give people credit, they seem to quickly get their heads round the concept of not requiring AV in Linux, and that these things only exist because *Windows* security sucks so badly.

The more I've thought/read/talked about safeboot, the less I'm inclined to think the OEM's are likely to allow it to become an issue... because any problems will fall at their door.

The home user, 🤬 off at HP because he can't add an aftermarket graphics card, etc.
The company 🤬 off at Dell because they can't use Norton Ghost, etc.

After all, it won't be M$ who have to fend off the complaints.... .

Thinking about it... it *may* cause more component/system manufacturers to label their products as "Linux compatible" which can only be a good thing... imagine, all Dell PC's and ASUS motherboards carrying 2 stickers... "Designed for Windows 8" AND "Linux compatible" .. and M$ discovering they've shot themselves in the foot again by creating an environment where hardware manufacturers feel the need to effectively provide free advertising for Linux.

It's down to the OEM to ensure they let the customers know what they're getting, and the whole point of buying a PC is so the end user has control over it, not the PC having control over the end user.
 
Just installed WIndows 8 in VMware. After 10 minutes my thoughts were:

"What a piece of crap."

Deleted all Windows 8 files.
 
I might try this, I may not. Been wanting to try the developer preview, but I found none of my DVD's are big enough for it.
 
Just installed WIndows 8 in VMware. After 10 minutes my thoughts were:

"What a piece of crap."

Deleted all Windows 8 files.

:lol: Can we have an honest opinion now?

I really have no desire to even install it. My guess is that Windows 8 Desktop edition will be soon to follow. I just can't imagine desktop users, much less businesses adapting to the "tiles" UI.
 
It was literally a piece of crap. Things look uglier, even the desktop. Everything was unorganized to use. Metro is completely useless to me. The app store is a headache, and it makes my whole computer feel like an $800 phone.

I just wish that they could make it so that you can choose whether to install Metro or not. They need to stick with making a proper OS that actually seems like a PC OS, not a Phone OS. The ease of use is pathetic, too many shortcuts/ gestures.
 
This image shall foretell the future of Windows 8.
2fpDY.png
 
I will try merging some files from windows 7 to windows 8 and see if i can have the windows 7 explorer with menu bars over windows 8 one that uses ribbon
 
:lol: Can we have an honest opinion now?

I really have no desire to even install it. My guess is that Windows 8 Desktop edition will be soon to follow. I just can't imagine desktop users, much less businesses adapting to the "tiles" UI.


Guess again,this is 3GB of crap and 10GB is used to install so it is desktop o/s and where microsoft doesn't want to listen to its users.
 
This image shall foretell the future of Windows 8.
2fpDY.png

One problem, Windows 2000 is not in that list. I never used Windows 2000 with an internet connection but it was fun to load some old games on a IBM ThinkPad 600. Other than that I used it to do some middle school work. Yes the OS was only out for about a year before they released Windows ME and I know it ruins the joke.
 
Win 2000 and XP are pretty much classed as the same version of Windows, I believe they use the same kernel so the picture is still pretty much correct.
 
I didn't have a problem with 95 or Vista, except for Vista on slow computers or computers with less than 2GB of RAM.
 
One problem, Windows 2000 is not in that list. I never used Windows 2000 with an internet connection but it was fun to load some old games on a IBM ThinkPad 600. Other than that I used it to do some middle school work. Yes the OS was only out for about a year before they released Windows ME and I know it ruins the joke.

Oh.... :(

Still judging by the opinions in this thread I think it might be awful even if the joke is ruined. I still didn't try it myself though.
 
I've used just about every version of Windows all the way back to 3.1 and earlier. I can say without a doubt in my mind, that anyone using one of the so-called "awful" versions of Windows, not including Millenium Edition.. were either idiots when they used that version, or they had a bad computer to begin with. I'm sick and tired of hearing how version [x] of Windows was bad for [y] reason. Maybe it was YOU that was bad with it. Did you ever think of that?

Windows 8, will be interesting. It looks like it's mainly designed for tablet interfaces, but it should be able to work ok on desktops and laptops as well. I still don't like the tile interface for computer use though.
 
I can say without a doubt in my mind, that anyone using one of the so-called "awful" versions of Windows, not including Millenium Edition.. were either idiots when they used that version, or they had a bad computer to begin with. I'm sick and tired of hearing how version [x] of Windows was bad for [y] reason. Maybe it was YOU that was bad with it. Did you ever think of that?

Well since the majority says so, I'm pretty sure that those versions actually did just simply suck.
 
Win 2000 and XP are pretty much classed as the same version of Windows, I believe they use the same kernel so the picture is still pretty much correct.

I think I know something that could disprove that. Read the "Unpatched critical flaws."

According to the Microsoft Security Bulletin MS09-048, "The architecture to properly support TCP/IP protection does not exist on Microsoft Windows 2000 systems, making it infeasible to build the fix for Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 to eliminate the vulnerability. To do so would require re-architecting a very significant amount of the Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 operating system, [...] there would be no assurance that applications designed to run on Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 would continue to operate on the updated system."

That would lead me to believe that it is made of a different type of kernel since Microsoft would have to do some major re-design work. I also noticed through some research that Windows 2000 was made with the Windows NT 5.0 kernel and windows XP was made with the Windows NT 5.1 kernel(Source). Then the 64-bit version of Windows XP was made with Windows NT 5.2.
 
Windows 2000 is a server OS, whereas Windows XP was intended for home use.

And I thought 95 was good, and 98 was awful? So to fix it, they released 98 SE to make it good?
 
No Windows 2000 was introduced as a consumer OS as "Professional" alongside the Server version. They use the same kernel(See the "Source" link from my last post) and just designed differently. So in my mind, Windows 2000 was it's own OS no matter how short it's prime time was, making that good/bad/good/bad/etc... joke irrelevant.
 
BkS
How wrong you are sir. I've been using Ubuntu for near enough 2+ years and it's been great to me. I'm able to play my games like LFS and BMW M3 Challenge seamlessly through WINE and I can even use Photoshop CS5. Ubuntu is now more than ever, a good alternative. Sure there is still some programs like more advanced non-linear video editors and multi-media apps needed but it's is very appropriate for Office use, Home use and even server now although I'd only ever use Gentoo, or CentOS for a server.

Linux is far faster, and safer than Windows and is a great alternative.

I didn't say its not usable, I just said its not a realistic proposition for the average home user. Note: IT Professionals/Techies/Nerds in general are NOT the average home user. You can make a Linux Distro workable in a home environment, but these days, why would you bother? Windows 7 works, the update mechanism works (finally), and out of the box anyone can use it, without having to configure anything or tweak it constantly. The story has been much the same since the days of Red Hat 6, and every time I've tried a new distro the story has been the same. Sure I can make it work, and configure it to do most of what I want, but why would I? It's nothing like as easy to live with as Windows 7.

I'd be curious to see how you qualify your remarks about comparative speed too...

But enough OT stuff now. I've only played with the Developer Preview of Windows 8, and I reckon it's a clunky, massive step sideways for the OS. The only thing I liked was the new task manager features. The rest of it was clunky and hidden behind a ridiculous menu system.
 
I didn't say its not usable, I just said its not a realistic proposition for the average home user. Note: IT Professionals/Techies/Nerds in general are NOT the average home user. You can make a Linux Distro workable in a home environment, but these days, why would you bother? Windows 7 works, the update mechanism works (finally), and out of the box anyone can use it, without having to configure anything or tweak it constantly. The story has been much the same since the days of Red Hat 6, and every time I've tried a new distro the story has been the same. Sure I can make it work, and configure it to do most of what I want, but why would I? It's nothing like as easy to live with as Windows 7.

I'd be curious to see how you qualify your remarks about comparative speed too...

But enough OT stuff now. I've only played with the Developer Preview of Windows 8, and I reckon it's a clunky, massive step sideways for the OS. The only thing I liked was the new task manager features. The rest of it was clunky and hidden behind a ridiculous menu system.

Linux is actually perfectly usable in a home user scenario. One of my dad's coworkers uses it because their Windows installation was beyond repair and I couldn't get a hold of a copy of Vista for a re-install. I went with Ubuntu 11.10 and they loved it. They use it on their laptop and understand it completely. It's a really simple alternative for the home user.
 
I didn't say its not usable, I just said its not a realistic proposition for the average home user. Note: IT Professionals/Techies/Nerds in general are NOT the average home user. You can make a Linux Distro workable in a home environment, but these days, why would you bother? Windows 7 works, the update mechanism works (finally), and out of the box anyone can use it, without having to configure anything or tweak it constantly. The story has been much the same since the days of Red Hat 6, and every time I've tried a new distro the story has been the same. Sure I can make it work, and configure it to do most of what I want, but why would I? It's nothing like as easy to live with as Windows 7.

I'd be curious to see how you qualify your remarks about comparative speed too...

But enough OT stuff now. I've only played with the Developer Preview of Windows 8, and I reckon it's a clunky, massive step sideways for the OS. The only thing I liked was the new task manager features. The rest of it was clunky and hidden behind a ridiculous menu system.



It is a realistic alternative proposition and how can you say with Windows 7 things just work out of the box? Like really? C'mon man, you know as well as I do that every release of a Windows OS comes with more and more bloat-ware, and not only that, but the computers that didn't come with Windows 7 installed have a major headache upgrading because there isn't drivers to support something.

I've used every version of Windows since 2.0 the one of the very first Windows OS's when it was still a Unix OS before they moved to DOS.

I've gave people my Ubuntu LiveCD and everything for them has worked as it should have. No need to install drivers after and I've not heard from them since with any problems.

Redhat is different from Debian, and you should know that. You can't compare Redhat with Ubuntu to counter against a heated debate about Windows, that's just silly. Both Redhat & Debian have come a long way since then.

The only thing that I've seen people have needed help with in Linux personally is the setting-up printers part.

If there ever was an issue, there are plenty of solutions on websites via a quick Google search. Just like you would with Windows.

Windows is a broken OS, it's file directory hierarchy isn't versatile, it always wants your product key after you change some hardware, and it controls you like it knows what's best.

The end user is supposed to have control over their computer, not the OS over them. The end user knows what's best.
 
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Just heard there's 8 differant versions of Windows 8.

1: That's not a coincidence.

and

2: If it's supposed to be ironic, or funny, on Microsoft's part...well...someone never made it as a comedian.


Excuse me while I go skydiving off a building, without a parachute.
 
BkS
It is a realistic alternative proposition and how can you say with Windows 7 things just work out of the box? Like really? C'mon man, you know as well as I do that every release of a Windows OS comes with more and more bloat-ware, and not only that, but the computers that didn't come with Windows 7 installed have a major headache upgrading because there isn't drivers to support something.

I've installed it on many different hardware configurations going as far back as an athlon xp1800 based system (where it actually ran faster than the previous XP install) but hey, what would I know?

I've used every version of Windows since 2.0 the one of the very first Windows OS's when it was still a Unix OS before they moved to DOS.

Good for you. I started with 3.1.

I've gave people my Ubuntu LiveCD and everything for them has worked as it should have. No need to install drivers after and I've not heard from them since with any problems.

Redhat is different from Debian, and you should know that. You can't compare Redhat with Ubuntu to counter against a heated debate about Windows, that's just silly. Both Redhat & Debian have come a long way since then.

I didn't compare Redhat with Ubuntu, Debian, or any other distro you care to name. I just said that my basic impression of a clunky, homemade, counter-intuitive alternative-for-the-sake-of-it remained no matter what distro I'd tried down the years.


The only thing that I've seen people have needed help with in Linux personally is the setting-up printers part.

If there ever was an issue, there are plenty of solutions on websites via a quick Google search. Just like you would with Windows.

No, just like you or I would. Not the end user. The end user just gets frustrated and demands a simpler, more familiar interface/OS.


Windows is a broken OS, it's file directory hierarchy isn't versatile, it always wants your product key after you change some hardware, and it controls you like it knows what's best.

Well that depends on the hardware changed (and how much of it is changed in one go) It's not exactly a big deal.

The end user is supposed to have control over their computer, not the OS over them. The end user knows what's best.

There is a difference between "control", and endless, frustrating tweeking to make things work.
 
Just heard there's 8 different versions of Windows 8.

Yup, skip to 1:30 for the Win 8 information:

I won't mind if Microsoft keeps the details clear but yes it's a bit of an overload with so many versions.
 
Just heard there's 8 differant versions of Windows 8.

I love the way most commentators have been saying that's about 6 versions too many :lol: Gone the days of good old XP home and professional.... simple. Vista was equally bonkers with versions, there was even one proposed that only allowed 3 things to run at once! and don't even get me started on the W7 'e' versions!
 
I love the way most commentators have been saying that's about 6 versions too many :lol: Gone the days of good old XP home and professional.... simple. Vista was equally bonkers with versions, there was even one proposed that only allowed 3 things to run at once!
...

Exactly! However, out of all the OS's they've ever released, they did Win 7 the best. Home Premium for the general user. Professional for those who like extras. Ultimate for high end users and gamers. Enterprise for buisnesses, and of course, Server for servers.

5 versions, but only 3 retail ones for normal people. Perfect. Clean, simple, and obvious as to which one you'd choose. It's ridiculous with all the new versions of Win 8.
 
I love the way most commentators have been saying that's about 6 versions too many :lol: Gone the days of good old XP home and professional.... simple. Vista was equally bonkers with versions, there was even one proposed that only allowed 3 things to run at once! and don't even get me started on the W7 'e' versions!

XP had

XP Home
XP Professional
XP Tablet
XP Media Center
XP Starter
XP Embedded
XP x64
XP Professional x64

Not the first time their have been 8 versions.
 
We are talking about at launch,

The tablet and media center versions didn't launch at the same time as XP, starter was emerging markets plus only ran 3 programs, the 64 bit versions again didn't launch at the same time and embedded is for POS' and ATM'S so not really consumer available.
 
You can make the windows 7 taskbar look like the XP one.

1: Right click taskbar and select properties
2: Check "Use small icons" and select "Combine when full" from the drop down box.
3: Apply changes
4: Right click taskbar and select toolbars>add new toolbar and select quick launch folder which is found in "C:\users\xxxxx\appdata\roaming\microsoft\internet explorer\"
5: Right click taskbar and select uncheck taskbar
6: now move the quick launchbar to the left by moving the lock bar on the far right all the way to the left and the one of the left all the way to the right, this should set the quick launch bar to the left near the start button/orb.
7: Right click the quick launch bar area and uncheck "show title" and "show text"
8: Now move the lock bar on the right more to the left so you nearly make the icons in the quick launch bar vanish.
9: Relock the taskbar.
10: And that should be it.
----------------------------
These are steps are optional
----------------------------
11: Right click the taskbar and select properties.
12: Click customize where the "Notification area"
13: Check "always show all icons and notifications on taskbar"
14: Click OK


xxx= Your Profile User Name.

No no, I was referring to the new Windows 8 one. I've made my Win 7 like XP the day I bought it (complete with Quick Launch) xD
 
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