There is no such thing as a 'hypercar'...

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Many points made, Here's another one. What about the 'Exotics'? I remember for years cars referred to as such, and then the term itself just faded away, some were now supercars and some were now hypercars. In the end, it's like the Cool Wall, one vehicle can be defined by many people in just as many, or more, different ways. It's all relative to the person speaking.

Now that I've said that, I do classify cars.
 

SkylineObsession

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Exotics to me are a much more inclusive class, and generally they are usually Italian or such. Ferrari/Lambo/Maserati/Pagani etc. Probably differers compared to where in the world you live.

Obviously i've epicly failed at trying to describe what i consider to be supercars or not homeforsummer, so i give up. :/

But finally (again) to me (and thankfully a few others), the R8, 355, 360, 430, 458, Gallardo, GT-R, LFA, ZR-1, GT500, NSX, Viper, 911 Turbo, 911 GT3, 911 GT2, DBS, Vanquish etc ARE NOT supercars.
- Going back to the bare basics, they just don't look like supercars. They don't have the same presence/aura. They aren't really low and really wide (generally) like most supercars (generally). I honestly don't know how people can consider them 'super'. Again, they are faster than supercars of days gone by. But EVERYTHING in the world is getting quicker, including supercars.

I've seen numerous cars in the above paragraph. Even driven a 360 and a Gallardo. The Gallardo sounded like a supercar which made it addictive to keep changing gears, but it isn't a supercar.
I've sat in a mates new ZR-1 - never considered it a supercar. The same mate also has a 550 Maranello, a 575 SuperAmerica and formerly a 599 GTB, and even though the latter has an Enzo engine i don't consider it a supercar. He recently sold the 599 and replaced it with New Zealands only 599 GTO, which i got a quick (and i mean very quick) ride in. Even though its the fastest car i've ever been in, it still isn't a supercar.

The MC-12, F40, F50, Enzo, LaFerrari, Veyron, Ultimate Aero, Tuatara, Muira, Countach, Diablo, Murcielago, Aventador, Zonda, CCR/etc, CLK GTR, F1, P1 and so on, are supercars.
- Again, they just look like supercars. Generally wild designs, quite low, big presence that turns most peoples heads.
I've only ever seen a couple supercars, one of which was a Murcielago in a showroom. In looks alone it owned everything else in the dealership, including Ferraris.

Hopefully one day the hype over hypercars subsides and people come out of the bushes to see that what they really are is a continuation of the car class that has been around for years, the supercar.

/end. ;)
 
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Going back to the bare basics, they just don't look like supercars.

I consider looks as important as what the car tastes like when it comes to supercarness.

I also feel the car in my avatar is pretty low and wide. The R8 is definitely a stunner when it comes to looks too. And GT-R looking bloated in no way detracts from the amount of super it's packing.

Then there is the Veyron on your list. It's fat and looks like a pimple.
 
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I really couldn't care less about how people classify cars. They're all cars in the end, quick or sluggish.
 

niky

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The problem with not considering a Gallardo or a 458 a supercar is where you're drawing your imaginary, arbitrary line.

Are they not supercars because there's an Enzo and an Aventador above them? But then would the Enzo and Aventador become non-supercars because there is an FXX and a Veneno above them? (Enzo / FXX used because Ferrari has not released a hardcore track car to replace the FXX).

When the Zonda debuted, it had less power than a Ferrari 360, and nearly identical performance. Both are long, low and sleek mid-engined sports cars. What makes one a Supercar and the other... not? Is it rarity? Then how rare should it be? They made over 2,000 Countaches. (gesundheit) My dinky four-door sedan is rarer than that.

Again... you draw a line in the sand, and wherever you draw it, some of the cars you've picked as supercars won't be, while some you pick as non-supercars will be.

Mind you, the very first use of the word "supercar" in motoring literature (not self-aggrandizing advertising) was in reference to what we commonly refer to nowadays as "muscle cars."
 
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HamiltonMP427
I'm of the same group that the super sport car title is asinine and would be considered Supercars. Limited production, high sale priced, and top speed above 200+ are considered Hypercars. Even if it isn't an official name I'm not sure why it's being knocked. It works to be fair.

The problem with not considering a Gallardo or a 458 a supercar is where you're drawing your imaginary, arbitrary line.

Are they not supercars because there's an Enzo and an Aventador above them? But then would the Enzo and Aventador become non-supercars because there is an FXX and a Veneno above them? (Enzo / FXX used because Ferrari has not released a hardcore track car to replace the FXX).

When the Zonda debuted, it had less power than a Ferrari 360, and nearly identical performance. Both are long, low and sleek mid-engined sports cars. What makes one a Supercar and the other... not? Is it rarity? Then how rare should it be? They made over 2,000 Countaches. (gesundheit) My dinky four-door sedan is rarer than that.

Again... you draw a line in the sand, and wherever you draw it, some of the cars you've picked as supercars won't be, while some you pick as non-supercars will be.

This ^ as well
 

Kent

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All credibility with defining terms in the english language were lost when a post of that length could use...
It was so much more faster than anything else at the time.

May as well put /thread in as well.

Subjective definitions are subjective and we can't simply ignore a term like hyper car because you don't not unlike like it. ;)
 
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HamiltonMP427
All credibility with defining terms in the english language were lost when a post of that length could use...

May as well put /thread in as well.

Subjective definitions are subjective and we can't simply ignore a term like hyper car because you don't not unlike like it. ;)

:lol: ^ this as well

Also when does the overwhelming bias for not liking a term and then some sort-of evidence qualify as full on evidence for trying to execute the hypercar term?
 

niky

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Mind... at least the term "exotic" has some kind of use.

By calling a supercar an "exotic", you are directly describing the attributes of rarity, high price and exotic manufacture. That, at least, is defensible. Hypercar is defensible in that a "hypercar" is supposed to be more super than a supercar. But then you come against the wall when a flimsy Radical or Caterham outperforms your million dollar "hypercar" on the track... :D
 
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The corvette is a supercar. It delivers supercar lap times, looks( ZR1), price $120k, and even outperformed the gallardo.

Also the viper acr lapped the nurburgring at 7:12:13. That's a good lap time, it defeated the Lexus LFA, Nissan gtr, pagani Zonda F clubsport etc, all of which are acclaimed supercars.

I think the corvette and viper has proved to be supercars.
 
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HamiltonMP427
Mind... at least the term "exotic" has some kind of use.

By calling a supercar an "exotic", you are directly describing the attributes of rarity, high price and exotic manufacture. That, at least, is defensible. Hypercar is defensible in that a "hypercar" is supposed to be more super than a supercar. But then you come against the wall when a flimsy Radical or Caterham outperforms your million dollar "hypercar" on the track... :D

Those aren't road legal everywhere though.

The corvette is a supercar. It delivers supercar lap times, looks( ZR1), price $120k, and even outperformed the gallardo.

Also the viper acr lapped the nurburgring at 7:12:13. That's a good lap time, it defeated the Lexus LFA, Nissan gtr, pagani Zonda F clubsport etc, all of which are acclaimed supercars.

I think the corvette and viper has proved to be supercars.

No one is discrediting them for the most part.
 

niky

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Not to mention that several classic supercars, like the F1 and 959, are not road-legal in the United States. If I recall right, there are two F1s that have been Federalized, both at great expense... the first one was at the owner's great expense, actually.
 
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HamiltonMP427
Not to mention that several classic supercars, like the F1 and 959, are not road-legal in the United States. If I recall right, there are two F1s that have been Federalized, both at great expense... the first one was at the owner's great expense, actually.

They're legal in the U.S. that political crap only stands for so long, also one was auctioned in the U.S. this year at 6+million. The point was like the Gumpert which is a built to order, the Radical isn't a production car like those it beat which is what I meant. I agree after posting the standards are greatly different from region to region, and road legal here isn't the same in other areas. I'm well aware of that, just bad wording. Also the Donkervoort never beat the Viper just the Vette.
 

niky

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When the F1 was originally built, it was not legal in the United States. Hence the egregious expense the first owner went to the Federalize his.

The 959 wasn't, either. Still isn't (as stock) Expect to pay a hefty price to make them road-legal.

That they can be made "road legal" (under an exemption, for limited use) means little. And that they weren't legal for sale for road use in the US when they were made means little, also.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/coming-to-america-in-the-porsche-959.html

-

As for "production", Radicals and Caterhams are definitely production cars. Any car you build to sell in numbers of more than one is a production car, regardless of the methods of production (otherwise, TVRs and various small-volume supercars would not count.)

Note, that most small-run supercars are also built-to-order, with a wait-list extending years into the future. The question, really, is what level of customization makes them "one-off" and not "production?" As with everything else in this discussion, it is pretty arbitrary.

-

I'll agree trackday specials are not very good as road cars, but they're still road cars. Unfortunately for a lot of ridiculously expensive machinery, they're also very fast.
 
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When the F1 was originally built, it was not legal in the United States. Hence the egregious expense the first owner went to the Federalize his.

The 959 wasn't, either. Still isn't (as stock) Expect to pay a hefty price to make them road-legal.

That they can be made "road legal" (under an exemption, for limited use) means little. And that they weren't legal for sale for road use in the US when they were made means little, also.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/coming-to-america-in-the-porsche-959.html

-

As for "production", Radicals and Caterhams are definitely production cars. Any car you build to sell in numbers of more than one is a production car, regardless of the methods of production (otherwise, TVRs and various small-volume supercars would not count.)

Note, that most small-run supercars are also built-to-order, with a wait-list extending years into the future. The question, really, is what level of customization makes them "one-off" and not "production?" As with everything else in this discussion, it is pretty arbitrary.

-

I'll agree trackday specials are not very good as road cars, but they're still road cars. Unfortunately for a lot of ridiculously expensive machinery, they're also very fast.

From what I read at Edmunds the cars are legal now, due to the fact that the 20 year limit on them has passed, there are various ways to bring them here. If you want to drive them though that is where (like you've said) it becomes harder and harder.

I've already talked plenty on this topic when it was brought up in the "skylines in U.S." thread talked about it. I know how it works, but you do make a good point your talking about then and not now.

As for the topic portion I don't think track day specials are what people would count, but that is even more ambiguous and vast as the topic at hand. Either way as far as everything else goes I agree with the general bit as has been shown.
 

Famine

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The point was like the Gumpert which is a built to order, the Radical isn't a production car like those it beat which is what I meant.
Might want to tell Radical that. They seem to think that if you want to buy one of their cars you only need to give them the money for it and you can have it.

Then you can drive it to the 'Ring on the public roads, do a 7 minute lap on the same tyres and drive away again on the public roads. Which is what they did.

Might not be road legal in the US (and "that political crap" is exactly what prevents them from being so, same as the F40 and 959 weren't and the McLaren F1 still is in many cases), but it is in Europe - you know, where their factory and the 'Ring are and stuff.

So it's car that's road legal, sold to the public and not built in limited numbers. Don't really see where it's not a production car in there.


It's not a supercar though...
 
22,530
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HamiltonMP427
Might want to tell Radical that. They seem to think that if you want to buy one of their cars you only need to give them the money for it and you can have it.

Then you can drive it to the 'Ring on the public roads, do a 7 minute lap on the same tyres and drive away again on the public roads. Which is what they did.

Might not be road legal in the US (and "that political crap" is exactly what prevents them from being so, same as the F40 and 959 weren't and the McLaren F1 still is in many cases), but it is in Europe - you know, where their factory and the 'Ring are and stuff.

So it's car that's road legal, sold to the public and not built in limited numbers. Don't really see where it's not a production car in there.


It's not a supercar though...

Pretty sure this ground was covered already before you posted, and pretty sure I agreed with Niky on it. And I'm pretty sure I tried to clarify what I said. Thanks for the sarcasm yet again Famine.
 

Crash

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You're not doing a very good job at defending what you post by being condescending and making up excuses when people point out that you are wrong.

I've already talked plenty on this topic when it was brought up in the "skylines in U.S." thread talked about it. I know how it works, but you do make a good point your talking about then and not now.

Oh, rly?

Then you should know that:

From what I read at Edmunds the cars are legal now, due to the fact that the 20 year limit on them has passed, there are various ways to bring them here. If you want to drive them though that is where (like you've said) it becomes harder and harder.

It's actually 25 years, not 20 years, right? Technically, it's 21 years as far as the EPA is concerned in terms of emissions and 25 years for the NHTSA for all the safety stuff, but it's commonly known as the 25 year old.*

*More stringent requirements may apply, see each individual state's laws for details.
 
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HamiltonMP427
You're not doing a very good job at defending what you post by being condescending and making up excuses when people point out that you are wrong.



Oh, rly?

Then you should know that:



It's actually 25 years, not 20 years, right? Technically, it's 21 years as far as the EPA is concerned in terms of emissions and 25 years for the NHTSA for all the safety stuff, but it's commonly known as the 25 year old.*

*More stringent requirements may apply, see each individual state's laws for details.

As far as I've heard you can get around the NHTSA standards, the EPA is the issue when you ship the car, since there is a grey list that tells what cars can be imported. However, you're right 21 years is the mark (20 was a typo) anyways as the R33 showed us the NHTSA or rather DOT can be tricked into allowing cars to pass.

EDIT: Anyways the point as I see it, is they are more so legal now then they were and there is documentation to show this. As well as me saying that Niky was right so not sure how I'm being condescending. I just don't nor have appreciated Famine's sarcasm and I'm sure he's aware of that, if that makes me condescending, I'm sorry to offend you I guess??
 

SkylineObsession

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(stolen line from another forum): So superman can easily be defeated by hyperman then?

It's what you're all saying. :)
 

niky

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More like they both lose in a fight to an Iron Man suit built in a shed out of plumbing supplies and motorcycle parts.
 

McLaren

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Might not be road legal in the US (and "that political crap" is exactly what prevents them from being so, same as the F40 and 959 weren't and the McLaren F1 still is in many cases), but it is in Europe - you know, where their factory and the 'Ring are and stuff.

So it's car that's road legal, sold to the public and not built in limited numbers. Don't really see where it's not a production car in there.
Just giving a small * to your post, but Radicals were able to made street legal through a small package here in the US that added a plate frame, some extra headlights & whatever else needed to pass the requirements. There is also registering it as a kit car or I believe Show & Display. I don't know if it's still available, though.

Doesn't change your point, just adding on to it.