There is no such thing as a 'hypercar'...

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,756
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
Pretty sure this ground was covered already before you posted, and pretty sure I agreed with Niky on it. And I'm pretty sure I tried to clarify what I said.
There's a way to clarify "Radical isn't a production car" (what you said) into "Radical is a production car" (the reality)? Neat.
Thanks for the sarcasm yet again Famine.
You're welcome!
Just giving a small * to your post, but Radicals were able to made street legal through a small package here in the US that added a plate frame, some extra headlights & whatever else needed to pass the requirements.
Should kinda slam a few extra nails home into the coffin of "Radical isn't a production car" then, really.
 
22,530
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
There's a way to clarify "Radical isn't a production car" (what you said) into "Radical is a production car" (the reality)? Neat.You're welcome!Should kinda slam a few extra nails home into the coffin of "Radical isn't a production car" then, really.

If you say so, the main point I was trying to make before I said Niky was right was that compared to the rest of the cars on the list. The radical is more of a track oriented car that is road going. I get it is a production car, but I'd expect it to beat out everyone it did.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,756
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
And yet of all the cars on the list, the Radical's the only one actually driven on the road (from its factory, 700 miles away) to the 'Ring to set a lap time and driven back again - on the same tyres.

And on a public Touristfahren day too. The rest were trailered there and had a closed test day.
 
22,530
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
And yet of all the cars on the list, the Radical's the only one actually driven on the road (from its factory, 700 miles away) to the 'Ring to set a lap time and driven back again - on the same tyres.

And on a public Touristfahren day too. The rest were trailered there and had a closed test day.

Okay so basically it could have set a better time, is what you're saying? Also what type of road tires does it use compared to the road tires others use?


I guess that one car it passed hurt his time quite badly, he could have had potentially another 10+ taken off the time, right?
 
Last edited:

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,756
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
Okay so basically it could have set a better time, is what you're saying.
Nope. Were I saying that, that would have been what I said.

What I said was that, for all the protestations about it not really being a road car, it's the only one of the cars actually driven on the road to the 'Ring and then driven round it on a public day. All the others were trailered to it, given fresh, sticky rubber and sent round with a top test driver on a closed track.

So which is the "more track oriented car that is roadgoing"? The car that was driven to the track on the road or the car trailered to the track then set up specifically to go fast round it?


Incidentally, on a personal level I couldn't give two short ones about 'Ring times - they're irrelevant, there's no official timing and no two laps are comparable. Some people find them significant for some reason.
Also what type of road tires does it use compared to the road tires others use.
No idea. Tyres good enough to last the trip from Peterborough to Nurburg, a few Touristfahren laps and Nurburg back to Peterborough again.
I guess that one car it passed hurt his time quite badly, he could have had potentially another 10+ taken off the time, right?
If you say so. Maybe if he'd had a full factory team on site, sticky cheater slicks and a closed course he could have gone 30s quicker, for all the relevance it has to anything.
 
22,530
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
Nope. Were I saying that, that would have been what I said.

What I said was that, for all the protestations about it not really being a road car, it's the only one of the cars actually driven on the road to the 'Ring and then driven round it on a public day. All the others were trailered to it, given fresh, sticky rubber and sent round with a top test driver on a closed track.

It still doesn't change the fact that this is a road going track purpose car like the others. Also so much for your "road tires", they used slicks too.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/20/radical-sr8lm-sets-new-nurburgring-record-at-6-48/

So which is the "more track oriented car that is roadgoing"? The car that was driven to the track on the road or the car trailered to the track then set up specifically to go fast round it?

Well not sure how the American's are suppose to get it over there. Maybe you should email them about how they should drop their cars off at the radical factory and then drive them to Germany. It is impressive that the SR8 drove there, but can you show me proof that they didn't set up the car?

Incidentally, on a personal level I couldn't give two short ones about 'Ring times - they're irrelevant, there's no official timing and no two laps are comparable. Some people find them significant for some reason.No idea. Tyres good enough to last the trip from Peterborough to Nurburg, a few Touristfahren laps and Nurburg back to Peterborough again.If you say so. Maybe if he'd had a full factory team on site, sticky cheater slicks and a closed course he could have gone 30s quicker, for all the relevance it has to anything.

Even if he did have manufacture support, the car technical wise should be easily beating the cars it beat, as I've said. I wasn't the one that started the Ring talk, neither were you but when you say it was on a track where it ran it's fast lap on a public day and only passed one car, then drop that in favor of him have no factory help what does it matter. Especially since you don't care about the lap times. I myself think it's purely a marketing tool as well as a testing bed.
 
Last edited:

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,756
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
It still doesn't change the fact that this is a road going track purpose car like the others. Also so much for your "road tires", they used slicks too.
Actually, they used Dunlop Direzza DR03s, which are road legal.

Read what you linked to:
Radical
Dunlop have supplied us with brilliant, hard-wearing trackday tyres, indeed we've only used one set to both drive to the 'Ring, and set the record.
Radical
Hi Guys, I'm from Radical and am still here at the Nordschleife. We're all really pleased that you guys in the US are taking interest in our record. Just to clear a few things up, so you know:
A few people have questioned the tyres. Although the Autoblog story says we used slicks, this isn't actually true. Dunlop now produce a road-legal tyre, with tread, that is specially designed for trackday cars like the SR8, Atom, Gumpert etc. It's not quite as fast as a proper slick...but then you couldn't get a racing tyre to last all the way from the UK anyway. The Dunlop Direzza tyre is completely standard and the same as sold across Europe, Asia and the US.
Speed bumps. It's true that our race cars would struggle with them, but they run a much lower ride height. For the road, we raise the ride to 100mm; absolutely fine for any speed bump we've come across. Also, because the ride is fairly stiff, the car doesn't tend to compress onto the bumps. We had no problems getting on/off the ferry from the UK to France, which I think proves the point fairly well.
As for the road-legal argument...it's something we knew would stir debate. Our point is: we sell 100 cars a year, so it's not a one-off; the cars meet exactly the same road-legal requirements as all other manufacturers in Europe (indeed, we meet the new IVA; not all trackday manufacturers do), and there was no 'special treatment' for the record car. Some manufacturers send their car off for additional work prior to a 'Ring attempt; we didn't need to.

In short, send us a deposit, and in 8-10 weeks you can have the fastest car around the 'Ring, in a choice of colours. Simple really...
Well not sure how the American's are suppose to get it over there. Maybe you should email them about how they should drop their cars off at the radical factory and then drive them to Germany.
Do they fly the car transporter trucks over too, or do they fly the cars to the nearest freight airport, load them onto transporters and have them shipped to the track?

Perhaps you should e-mail them about how they should drive their road cars on the road from airport to track?
It is impressive that the SR8 drove there, but can you show me proof that they didn't set up the car?
Proof doesn't work like that.

As a quick example, show me proof that the Viper ACR wasn't actually an F1 car in such a convincing disguise you'd never be able to tell.

You can't do that, but then you don't have to. Still...
Radical
the cars meet exactly the same road-legal requirements as all other manufacturers in Europe (indeed, we meet the new IVA; not all trackday manufacturers do), and there was no 'special treatment' for the record car. Some manufacturers send their car off for additional work prior to a 'Ring attempt; we didn't need to.

In short, send us a deposit, and in 8-10 weeks you can have the fastest car around the 'Ring, in a choice of colours. Simple really...
Even if he did have manufacture support, the car technical wise should be easily beating the cars it beat, as I've said.
A faster car is faster...
I wasn't the one that started the Ring talk, neither were you but when you say it was on a track where it ran it's fast lap on a public day and only passed one car, then drop that in favor of him have no factory help what does it matter.
The fact remains that for all the protestations that the Radical isn't a road legal, production road car it is all of those things and that rejecting how fast it went around "x" track on the basis that it's more track-focussed than cars it beat when they had to be trailered there and the Radical drove there and back on the road is ludicrous. And it set the laptime on an open day rather than a closed manufacturer test.

It's a road legal, production road car. That is how things are.
 
Last edited:
22,530
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
Actually, they used Dunlop Direzza DR03s, which are road legal.

Read what you linked to:
Do they fly the car transporter trucks over too, or do they fly the cars to the nearest freight airport, load them onto transporters and have them shipped to the track?

Perhaps you should e-mail them about how they should drive their road cars on the road from airport to track?
Why would I, I have no issue on how they get to the track. Furthermore, the performance tires used by the top two American cars are Michelin® Pilot® Sport Cup Zero Pressure tires, which are not slicks they are road tires. I also saw the Direzza quote in another article that wasn't the Autoblog one.

Proof doesn't work like that.

As a quick example, show me proof that the Viper ACR wasn't actually an F1 car in such a convincing disguise you'd never be able to tell.

You can't do that, but then you don't have to. Still...

You made the claim that it wasn't set up for the Ring at the track, which to me sounds like they drove their from the factory and back without and no where did they set up the car or have a group that drove with them to help set it up. I just want to see if there is anything that can substantiate the claim you've made.

The fact remains that for all the protestations that the Radical isn't a road legal, production road car it is all of those things and that rejecting how fast it went around "x" track on the basis that it's more track-focussed than cars it beat when they had to be trailered there and the Radical drove there and back on the road is ludicrous. And it set the laptime on an open day rather than a closed manufacturer test.

It's a road legal, production road car. That is how things are.

Yes as I've said, I agreed with Niky that it was in fact a production car even if not legal everywhere due to the reality of different measures and restrictions being put in place especially in my home country. However, even if it is a production car the design can be focused in one direction over others and obviously it is focused on the aspect of being a street legal track car in Europe. I'd also have to admit though on a lesser degree that the viper though street legal is also a track purpose car as well. However, then we get into the semantics of what is more or less of a street legal performance car that can be ran well at the track. Also it still doesn't change the fact that passing one car isn't going to hurt your overall time by that much, perhaps if you'd said that factory drivers were used and Radical didn't have one...

Also what's ludicrous about it? If the main competition was the SR8 they would have drove it to the track from point a to b (the track) and back just to say we did it. However, that isn't the case the direct competition did the same thing as Dodge and Chevy and all that is needed to sell this is that they went around a big track faster than all this well known cars, also the fact that many of their buyers are car enthusiast/racing fanatics helps.

It's a production car yes, road legality varies though as I've said. It's great if you can own and drive it on the road, but here unless major modifications are made it can't be.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,756
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
Why would I, I have no issue on how they get to the track.
Actually if you're dismissing cars because they're track-focussed, you do have that issue. The Radical drove there, from the factory. The others were trailered there - even the Gumpert, which is built in the same country as the track... If the Radical was so track-focussed, why is it the only one to make its own way there on the public road?
Furthermore, the performance tires used by the top two American cars are Michelin® Pilot® Sport Cup Zero Pressure tires, which are not slicks they are road tires.
'Kay. So what? Don't recall mentioned slicks anywhere, except to point out to you that the Radical's tyres weren't them.
You made the claim that it wasn't set up for the Ring at the track, which to me sounds like they drove their from the factory and back without and no where did they set up the car or have a group that drove with them to help set it up. I just want to see if there is anything that can substantiate the claim you've made.
That's what Radical said. I even just quoted it for you.

Is there any physical proof? Not that I'm aware of - but then I didn't make the claim they changed their car. You can't prove non-existence, so the burden of proof isn't on Radical who say they didn't change their car...
Yes as I've said, I agreed with Niky that it was in fact a production car even if not legal everywhere due to the reality of different measures and restrictions being put in place especially in my home country.
Which, when other examples of cars not being legal in the USA were used, you dismissed as "political crap" that "only stands for so long".

Sauce for the goose. If the "political crap" can be swept away from the illegality of the McLaren F1 on the US highways, it can be done for any other car too. Though since it's been pointed out in this thread that the Radical comes with a Federalisation package to make it US road legal, it's kinda moot. You can buy a Radical and run it on the road in the USA.
However, even if it is a production car the design can be focused in one direction over others and obviously it is focused on the aspect of being a street legal track car in Europe. I'd also have to admit though on a lesser degree that the viper though street legal is also a track purpose car as well. However, then we get into the semantics of what is more or less of a street legal performance car that can be ran well at the track.
Which I've avoided - save for pointing out that the supposedly track-focussed Radical was driven 1400 miles to and from the track as well as round it on public roads and the Gumpert, Lexus and Dodge were shipped there.
Also it still doesn't change the fact that passing one car isn't going to hurt your overall time by that much
You mentioned this before. No idea what the relevance was then either.
perhaps if you'd said that factory drivers were used and Radical didn't have one...
Radical did have one. He drove the car to the 'Ring from the factory and back, pausing only to do a day's worth of Touristfahren laps.
Also what's ludicrous about it?
You originally stated that "the Radical isn't a production car like those it beat". You "clarified" this to "The radical is more of a track oriented car that is road going. I get it is a production car, but I'd expect it to beat out everyone it did.".

You'd expect the Radical to beat the cars it beat because it is more of a track-oriented car that is road going - with the implication being the cars that were beaten are less track-oriented and more road going by comparison to the Radical.

The Radical was built at the factory and drove, on public roads, to the 'Ring. Fairly roadgoing. Then it drove round the 'Ring with the rest of the hoi-palloi on a Touristfahren day (on the same set of road-legal cheater slicks it had been wearing since Peterborough) - a day only open to roadgoing cars. Quite roadgoing. Later in the week it drove home again, on public roads. I'd call that quite the roadgoing car.

The Gumpert was built at the factory and loaded onto a trailer. It, with three other Gumperts, was trailed by truck to the 'Ring. Not particularly roadgoing. It then drove round the 'Ring with no-one else for company on a closed, private test day - when anything manufacturers want to bring is allowed on circuit. Not even slightly roadgoing. It was then loaded onto a trailer and taken away again. At no point did it turn a wheel on the public roads.

So. The Radical did some track time but spent most of the time on the road. Meanwhile the Gumpert Apollo - and the Viper ACR, the Donkervoort, the LF-A, the Corvette and everything down to the 7'30 range - spent no time on the road. They were shipped there, raced round a closed track with a full team of engineers on hand and then shipped home.

And the Radical is the car you want to dismiss as "more track-oriented".
It's a production car yes, road legality varies though as I've said. It's great if you can own and drive it on the road, but here unless major modifications are made it can't be.
And when you're citing 'Ring laptimes, unless "here" is Germany - or at the very least a European country - it's not relevant.


The Radical SR8LM is a full production, road legal, road car. You can buy it and drive it away from the factory on the public roads. You can fly it to the USA and drive it on the public roads there. There's no private clientele list (like the F50 and Enzo - and probably the LaFerrari too), you just give them the deposit and you can pick your car up in around 2 months. The exact same car that rolled out of the factory and, 700 miles later, lapped the 'Ring in less than 7 minutes despite being a public open day with speed limits.

To dismiss it as such simply because it looks a bit racey is foolishness.
 

Pupik

old hand
Staff Emeritus
17,933
United States
HSV or something
Classic
Hyper-car is just a word to make headlines seem more sassy and in your face.

Yes, but it sure sounds less "unit based" than A-segment, B-segment, C-segment, et al...a phrase nobody said until five years ago. Which is silly, because car manufacturers are typically always positioning their product(s) wherever there's a niche, and create one when possible. Or just follow the leader, and soon we'll have LaChevrolet, LeCar, or Ra370Z.

I know this statement is going to rain on a few parades, but Automotive Journalism (like any specialist press) is always going to run out of phrases and buzzwords, so it invents new ones. On the other hand, there's only so many times you can use "car", "vehicle", "automobile", before you have to reach for another synonym. But the great and the best writers will find a way to overcome this limitation...
 

SkylineObsession

Expert daydreamer
Premium
4,185
New Zealand
Dunedin
SkylineObsession
Mangosaurus
The problem mainly does lie with motoring journos. They've labelled far too many non supercar cars as supercars just because they go really quick. It has oversaturated the market, which is where all the confusion comes in.
 

niky

Karma Chameleon
Moderator
23,800
Philippines
Philippines
If it's as fast as a (current) supercar and as expensive as a (current) supercar and it has two doors... it's... what? :D (and none of that mid-engine biz... the very first "supercars" were front-engined sportscars)

-

Personally, I'm looking at making my contribution to automotive jargon. I'm hoping for another crack at a Hyundai Genesis, so I can start using the word "sportscarp".




;)
 
22,530
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
Actually if you're dismissing cars because they're track-focussed, you do have that issue. The Radical drove there, from the factory. The others were trailered there - even the Gumpert, which is built in the same country as the track... If the Radical was so track-focussed, why is it the only one to make its own way there on the public road?

I'm not dismissing it, once again just saying it is more purpose built for a track, and should perform better due to basically being and LMP-esque monocoque, aero performance and so on for the road. Also maybe Radical aren't as big as some of the other outfits, perhaps they wanted to have a selling point.

'Kay. So what? Don't recall mentioned slicks anywhere, except to point out to you that the Radical's tyres weren't them.That's what Radical said. I even just quoted it for you.

That's right you said "fresh, sticky rubber", so basically it proves that the road going tires can do many miles and then run on the track to make a lap record. I would hope that all super/hypercars could do that since that is the point to road going performance tires.

Is there any physical proof? Not that I'm aware of - but then I didn't make the claim they changed their car. You can't prove non-existence, so the burden of proof isn't on Radical who say they didn't change their car...Which, when other examples of cars not being legal in the USA were used, you dismissed as "political crap" that "only stands for so long".

I didn't dismiss them over the radical, where did I say that? All I said was the grey list is a joke, and political more than safety driven, and statue only last for so long but have ways to be worked around (e.g. kit car and so on). Also there is equally no proof that it wasn't set up.

Sauce for the goose. If the "political crap" can be swept away from the illegality of the McLaren F1 on the US highways, it can be done for any other car too. Though since it's been pointed out in this thread that the Radical comes with a Federalisation package to make it US road legal, it's kinda
moot. You can buy a Radical and run it on the road in the USA.


Which I've avoided - save for pointing out that the supposedly track-focussed Radical was driven 1400 miles to and from the track as well as round it on public roads and the Gumpert, Lexus and Dodge were shipped there.You mentioned this before. No idea what the relevance was then either.Radical did have one. He drove the car to the 'Ring from the factory and back, pausing only to do a day's worth of Touristfahren laps.You originally stated that "the Radical isn't a production car like those it beat". You "clarified" this to "The radical is more of a track oriented car that is road going. I get it is a production car, but I'd expect it to beat out everyone it did.".

You'd expect the Radical to beat the cars it beat because it is more of a track-oriented car that is road going - with the implication being the cars that were beaten are less track-oriented and more road going by comparison to the Radical.

The Radical was built at the factory and drove, on public roads, to the 'Ring. Fairly roadgoing. Then it drove round the 'Ring with the rest of the hoi-palloi on a Touristfahren day (on the same set of road-legal cheater slicks it had been wearing since Peterborough) - a day only open to roadgoing cars. Quite roadgoing. Later in the week it drove home again, on public roads. I'd call that quite the roadgoing car.

I'm sure you would, all of them are road going cars, just because it did a road trip doesn't change the reality that being an FIA spec car, that lives up to FIA standards and other features shown gives way to the idea that a race car was in mind all while keeping it road legal. Yes it is far more of a track car than others it compares itself to a GP3 and hints at other aspect of Formula racing.

The Gumpert was built at the factory and loaded onto a trailer. It, with three other Gumperts, was trailed by truck to the 'Ring. Not particularly roadgoing. It then drove round the 'Ring with no-one else for company on a closed, private test day - when anything manufacturers want to bring is allowed on circuit. Not even slightly roadgoing. It was then loaded onto a trailer and taken away again. At no point did it turn a wheel on the public roads.

How is it not road going? I've helped trailer cars to tracks because the owner didn't want to run up the miles making the trek. So because it didn't do the trip like the radical it's less road going, though people drive them on the road and have shown them to be road going (not great but road going). Once again it does not detract or add anything to make a long trip in the car just to run a lap time, it in no way changes that it is a road going car. Perhaps as I've said asking them why they do it is something you should look into.

So. The Radical did some track time but spent most of the time on the road. Meanwhile the Gumpert Apollo - and the Viper ACR, the Donkervoort, the LF-A, the Corvette and everything down to the 7'30 range - spent no time on the road. They were shipped there, raced round a closed track with a full team of engineers on hand and then shipped home.

They've spent plenty of time on the road, them driving the car to the track doesn't prove that they aren't road worthy. Once again it's a marketing game, the average person is going to see it beat the ZR1 (Dodge for example) and the LF-A and others. Like NASCAR or Le Mans, the idea is a manufacture to conquer a "feat" and then present it in a way that makes people think it is the best buy. IF they used a team or not doesn't matter, especially if the rest of their main competition is doing so.

And the Radical is the car you want to dismiss as "more track-oriented".And when you're citing 'Ring laptimes, unless "here" is Germany - or at the very least a European country - it's not relevant.

Because it is more track oriented, all of them could drive that distance but can never meet the level or track performance because they aren't trying to be road legal race cars. It seems to me that Radical did it to prove it can travel on the road as well as any other, which it's counterparts don't need to because it's quite obvious they can. Also considering the Viper tested was taken from a Texas dealership and then sold, I'd say they like others shipped them to save mileage and just do the run and claim king of the hill.


The Radical SR8LM is a full production, road legal, road car. You can buy it and drive it away from the factory on the public roads. You can fly it to the USA and drive it on the public roads there. There's no private clientele list (like the F50 and Enzo - and probably the LaFerrari too), you just give them the deposit and you can pick your car up in around 2 months. The exact same car that rolled out of the factory and, 700 miles later, lapped the 'Ring in less than 7 minutes despite being a public open day with speed limits.

Okay and a car from the production line at GM and Dodge and so on were taken there and tested. They didn't build any one off version to conquer it and yet again who cares if did that trek, the others could have done the same. If there was some marketing value in doing so that would sell more cars they'd all be doing it. Many times that longevity factor of a performance car is done in car magazines.

To dismiss it as such simply because it looks a bit racey is foolishness.

Why is it foolish? The car is a track car even Radical themselves promote it as such, over the road going ability it has. It has nothing to do with looks but the facts and reality it is set up like that.

The problem mainly does lie with motoring journos. They've labelled far too many non supercar cars as supercars just because they go really quick. It has oversaturated the market, which is where all the confusion comes in.

Which cars aren't supercars. Because the list you gave prior, many of those cars are supercars. Why isn't a GT-R, ZR1 or Viper ACR or SRT GTS a super car.
 
Last edited:
7,197
Exorcet
OE Exorcet
The problem mainly does lie with motoring journos. They've labelled far too many non supercar cars as supercars just because they go really quick. It has oversaturated the market, which is where all the confusion comes in.

There can only be confusion if there is an official definition. There isn't.

That actually makes mislabeling cars as supercars rather difficult.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,756
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
*most of that post*
Wow.

It's like you're not only not reading (or comprehending - there's at least three instances in that lot where you've rearranged the word order in your head to generate a different meaning) what I've written but you're not even reading (or remembering) your own posts any more.

I'm pointing out to you that dismissing the Radical from an irrelevant dick-waving competition because it's less of a roadgoing car than the other cars in the comparison (which is what you did) is incredibly foolish given that it's the only one of the cars that actually drove on the road to the dick-waving competition and then did the competition in normal conditions* on the same set of tyres whereas the rest of them were trailered there and given ideal conditions, new tyres on demand and a factory support team on site.

You should be dismissing the trailer queens' lap times. Instead you're just tossing aside a car you say is less roadgoing despite being the only one used as a road car.

What, exactly, does the Radical SR8LM have to do to prove itself to you as a full production, road-legal road car other than you being able to buy one with no limitations on numbers or ownership and drive it on any public road in the world (over speed bumps/sleeping policemen and onto and off RoRo ferries) with sufficient flexibility to then set lap times that other manufacturers' halo cars can't match?


*You do know there's speed limits on the 'Ring on Touristfahren days, right?
 

Wolfe

Physics Critic
Premium
13,408
United States
Wisconsin
Wolfe2x7
What, exactly, does the Radical SR8LM have to do to prove itself to you as a full production, road-legal road car other than you being able to buy one with no limitations on numbers or ownership and drive it on any public road in the world (over speed bumps/sleeping policemen and onto and off RoRo ferries) with sufficient flexibility to then set lap times that other manufacturers' halo cars can't match?
The hangup is that it resembles a miniature LeMans prototype. If it looked like a miniature race-prepped touring car instead, no one would discredit it.
 
2,143
United Kingdom
The Track
youngun_great
To me -
Sport hatches - the car which the youth can enjoy at affordable prices and nothing to slow that could trouble sports in the bends. Focus RS, Megane Rs, Astra VXR, Scirocco R, 3 MPS.
Sports cars - average cars that average people buy and enjoy daily. GT86, MX5, Cayman S, M3/4 or Sti/Evo.
Supersports - the more affordable cars that play with the supers but are more than happy at low speeds andmulti-storey car parks examples include GTR and 911 Carrera.
Super cars - upper class select group for the more expensive car that is used at weekends and never used for its purpose of speed. Include R8, 911 Turbo, 458 and MP4
Hypercar - bought buy the rich and famous to poss and show off there bank balance, get models in to bed and flaunt globally (especially Monaco and Abu dhabi). Crazy looking, crazy design, crazy fast and crazy expensive. Huayra, LaFerrari, P1 and any special edition, one offs, custom builds and concept but road legal cars. Agera S, Stirling Moss SLR, most Veyrons and the Lambo Veneno or Sesto Elemento.

Best qoute for this would be from The Jeremy Clarkson
"Supercars are designed to mess with G forces and Hypercars are designed to mess with G Strings"
 
2,260
United States
N. Jessamine, KY
JMoney-689
Woodside689
How I see it:

*Only applies to cars built after 1990, as the Miura is obviously a supercar.*
*Sedans are categorized differently.*

Normal Car: FWD, 2, doors, 4 or fewer cylinders (Nissan Altima Coupe)
Sporty Car: FWD, 2 doors, more than 4 cylinders (Mitsubishi Eclipse)
Sports Car: RWD/AWD, 2 doors (Mazda Miata, Ford Mustang GT, Audi TT Quattro)
Supersports Car: 180 mph or higher (Porsche 911 Carrera S, Nissan GT-R, Audi R8 4.2)
Supercar: 195 mph or higher, (Porsche 911 GT2, Ferrari 458, Lamborghini Gallardo)
Hypercar: 215 mph or higher (Lamborghini Aventador, McLaren P1, Pagani Huayra)
Record-Attempting Car: 250 mph or higher (Bugatti Veyron, SSC Ultimate Aero, Hennessey Venom GT)
 
2,143
United Kingdom
The Track
youngun_great
The term hypercar was pens once cars starting going stupid speed at stupid prices. Believe first was Diablo because it was crazy fast but danagerous, then F1 and XJ220. After that anything upwards of 400k and 220mph was close to hypercarness. SLR wasnt but the SLR 722 and SLR Stirling Moss was because the 722 turned everything up and the SM was custom made. Murcialago no but the SV was close and the Reventon Defo was a Hyper, now the aventador is a supercar and the Veneno is the Hyper form meaning the Gallardo (or soon Hurucan) is more a low end super, being paired with the R8 and 911 Turbo, moving on to porsche. GT2/ GT3 RS are Supercars with price and performance in mind but the Carrera GT is Hypercaring it. Audi are yet to enter the Hypercar frame but a Rumoured V10 TT based off the Aventador sounds nice.
 
3,155
Canada
49°16'43.22"N 81°37'50.21W
mikeybc
Someday someone is going to make a production 280 mph stupendous-car. But really they're all just cars, they're either sporty or not sporty with some being faster than others. That's where it stops for me.
 

Slash

POWER BY FORD
Premium
34,944
United States
Indian Falls, NY
slashfan7964
How I see it:



Normal Car: FWD/RWD, 2 or 4 doors, 4-6 cylinder engines, 150-ish hp.
Sporty Car: FWD/RWD, 2 doors, 200+hp
Sports Car/Pony Car: RWD/AWD, 2 doors, 250+ hp.
Muscle Car/Pony Car: RWD, 2 Doors, 350+ hp
Supercar: 2 Door, sleek design (See Ferrari 458), 450+hp
Hypercar: 215 mph or higher (Lamborghini Aventador, McLaren P1, Pagani Huayra)
Ridiculouscar: 250 mph or higher (Bugatti Veyron, SSC Ultimate Aero, Hennessey Venom GT0


That said, there's different cars with different hp levels that can be placed differently than my descriptions...it's based on the car. You could have a 150hp Porsche for example and I'd class it as a sports car.
 

ExigeEvan

You won't like this but..
Premium
17,192
To me -
Sport hatches - the car which the youth can enjoy at affordable prices and nothing to slow that could trouble sports in the bends. Focus RS, Megane Rs, Astra VXR, Sciroco R
Youth!? Youth would be, at a very stretch, someone under 25. I'd be amazed if they could afford something as expensive or insure something as fast as those cars in the UK.
 
39,080
How I see it:



Normal Car: FWD/RWD, 2 or 4 doors, 4-6 cylinder engines, 150-ish hp.
Sporty Car: FWD/RWD, 2 doors, 200+hp
Sports Car/Pony Car: RWD/AWD, 2 doors, 250+ hp.
Muscle Car/Pony Car: RWD, 2 Doors, 350+ hp
Supercar: 2 Door, sleek design (See Ferrari 458), 450+hp
Hypercar: 215 mph or higher (Lamborghini Aventador, McLaren P1, Pagani Huayra)
Ridiculouscar: 250 mph or higher (Bugatti Veyron, SSC Ultimate Aero, Hennessey Venom GT0


That said, there's different cars with different hp levels that can be placed differently than my descriptions...it's based on the car. You could have a 150hp Porsche for example and I'd class it as a sports car.
ludicrous-speed1.jpg
 
2,143
United Kingdom
The Track
youngun_great
Youth!? Youth would be, at a very stretch, someone under 25. I'd be amazed if they could afford something as expensive or insure something as fast as those cars in the UK.
I have 4 friends with a Astra Vxr, 5 with a Civic Type R (Ek9 jdm, Ep3 x3 and a FN2) couple with s2ks, and a slightly richer friend with a RS (09 bought cheap) and yes jealous of that. Couple with Sti's and one with a slightly modded Evo V. Im 22 and have a RX8 none standard, wanted RX7 but none FS in a 60 mile radius.

And yes youth, by government and insurance purposes is under 25, and most of us have 4/5 years no claim so aint that bad.
 

ExigeEvan

You won't like this but..
Premium
17,192
All reasonably cars to own second hand (I or my housemates have owned or considered just about all of them), but brand new they're considerably out of the reach of your normal "youth".
 
2,143
United Kingdom
The Track
youngun_great
All reasonably cars to own second hand (I or my housemates have owned or considered just about all of them), but brand new they're considerably out of the reach of your normal "youth".
What about the clio Rs, Fiesta St, Polo gti, 208 gti, corsa vxr etc around lower than 25k so hot hatches have a wide band, these are the little speedy boxes at low cost. Even for a 19/20 yo on finance, and you do see that around here.
 
212
United States
Los Angeles, CA
disneyland5
It goes a little like this:

Sports car: Ferrari California

Super car: Ferrari 458

Hyper car: Ferrari LaFerrari