They made Sophy better! BOOST WEAK

[Voodoovaj]

So, I realized today that they have made a tweak to Sophy making it even more human like. I want to encourage anyone who has not yet tried Sophy custom races to take the time and give them a try.

Here's an example of one of mine. These Clio's are all tuned exactly the same.



I've posted similar things in the custom race thread, but I feel like too many people are still ignoring Sophy customs races. To be clear, the Sophy Quick Race is poor indication of what the current iteration of Sophy can do, so do yourself a favor and give the custom race a try.

Warning: It is work. Like making a livery, or tuning a car, there is a time investment in making a good race. But, it is likely the most rewarding part of this game.

Here's some guidance for the uninitiated. Have balanced cars as much as possible. Sophy will use the default tires OR racing hard tires, and I highly recommend going with RH for best results. I also HIGHLY recommend the racing brakes and racing brake pads, because Sophy likes to pass you under braking. Try to avoid the dedicated race cars (Gr1, GR2, etc) unless you plan on limiting the field to only a handful of examples. Fewer variations works better than more variations. Set the cars to the same PP. I avoid BoP, I find it doesn't work as well as balancing the cars manually, but it's an ok shortcut.

Lastly, and you may have seen this across the forum, set the Boost feature to WEAK. It doesn't boost YOU, it boosts Sophy. It's a bug in the game, but it works great. The payout falls but the degree of difficulty increases, which is how we know it's a bug. Also, Boost Strong is easier than Boost Weak, which again is an indicator that something has been set incorrectly. None the less, it's the best mistake ever made in the history of this game.

As you can see by the Clio Cup video I posted, racing Sophy is akin to a Sport Mode race now. Expect to stay more or less where you started.

I haven't tested this iteration of Sophy over the long haul yet (aka 30minutes, 60 minutes, etc). The most I have done is 15 laps, and I have yet to do better than a 0.5 second lead to the win, after starting myself 5th. I did a few 15 lap races from last and I managed to get to mid pack ONCE.

Given that we are likely entering the final days of content updates, this will be a way to keep the game fresh until the release of GT8. There's a few Sophy threads, like the custom race thread, or the "test your tune" thread. Legit, if you see Sophy is having issues with a car, that you're sign that the tune is messed up. You may also want Sophy specific tunes, since getting Sophy to be fun is not the same as making a car fast for you (although it's usually the same thing).

Good luck!!! Have fun! Post your vids and questions...But PLEASE try it if you haven't yet.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

Sorry for being dense, but what was the change they made? In 1.60?

 

[Nebuc72]

I'm pretty sure they're always doing this, it's the nature of the learning model they use for Sophy.

I would imagine it's the same reason you see the new update cars get added in the following months - they're always developing it and training it on new things (and presumably, to race better) in the background and then pushing the new model in updates.

Presumably they don't push new models out for every track in every update etc. which is why you haven't necessarily noticed? But I'm pretty sure improving it as it goes was always the goal.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Sorry for being dense, but what was the change they made? In 1.60?

The cars no longer follow the same line, they are now taking multiple lines around the track like humans do.

I'm pretty sure they're always doing this, it's the nature of the learning model they use for Sophy.

I would imagine it's the same reason you see the new update cars get added in the following months - they're always developing it and training it on new things (and presumably, to race better) in the background and then pushing the new model in updates.

Presumably they don't push new models out for every track in every update etc. which is why you haven't necessarily noticed? But I'm pretty sure improving it as it goes was always the goal.

They are always adding new "learning" so to speak. I put that Clio Cup together after 1.59 so I can say, without question, they were still following the same racing line before 1.60, only going offline for passes and such. This type of weaving could be seen if you had very different cars, but with cup races like the one in the video, it was most definitely single file.

So, yes, it's not a "new model" since a new model means that it has been rethought and reimplemented. This is an adjustment to the same model, a very slight adjustment with a big upside.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

The cars no longer follow the same line, they are now taking multiple lines around the track like humans do.

They are always adding new "learning" so to speak. I put that Clio Cup together after 1.59 so I can say, without question, they were still following the same racing line before 1.60, only going offline for passes and such. This type of weaving could be seen if you had very different cars, but with cup races like the one in the video, it was most definitely single file.

So, yes, it's not a "new model" since a new model means that it has been rethought and reimplemented. This is an adjustment to the same model, a very slight adjustment with a big upside.

Are you sure? They still seem pretty useless around some tracks.

 

[Fernando_DSF]

If it's a wet race and the car has intermediate or rain tires available (but is not using them in the setup in use when the car is chosen to the custom race), will Sophy start with them?

 

[SPOOLMAN]

Fantastic! Will try it out today 🙏

Ive noticed numerous changes that are not listed on the official patch notes.

 

[Brock5000]

Thank you for posting this, I recently got a PS5p and have yet to experience Sophy, I haven't been entirely sure how to get the best out of it so your tips are most appreciated. I have a slew of identically tuned Caymans I made for custom races on the old PS4p so I'll stick them all on RH tyres and give it a go. Cheers!

 

[GTP_Rhapsss]

Fantastic explaining! This morning, I tested a custom race with ~600PP road cars, which is making an enhanced version of the WTC 600. The majority of the grid has SH tires while three of the opponents have RM tires to make the passes feel interesting.

Overall, I will take in the advice to add racing brakes and pads to the grid to refine the experience.

Once again, thanks for the info!

 

[sejtur]

Thank you for posting this, I recently got a PS5p and have yet to experience Sophy, I haven't been entirely sure how to get the best out of it so your tips are most appreciated. I have a slew of identically tuned Caymans I made for custom races on the old PS4p so I'll stick them all on RH tyres and give it a go. Cheers!

Maybe they will be on racing tires when you select them for your own car

 

[eran0004]

Are you sure? They still seem pretty useless around some tracks.

Try setting boost to weak.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Are you sure? They still seem pretty useless around some tracks.

If you think they're useless, then you have done something incorrectly. As @eran0004 set your boost to weak. Do not use the quick race. it MUST be a custom race.

If it's a wet race and the car has intermediate or rain tires available (but is not using them in the setup in use when the car is chosen to the custom race), will Sophy start with them?

Yes, several people in the custom race thread have have discovered this.


And, some races require more work than others. For instance, I am trying to put together a Gallardo Super Trofeo, but the Gallardo's default set up is horrendous and leads to massive chaos. Many of the default setups can be a problem, so be prepared to do little work to fix your cars. Once you have the cars set up correctly, it's well worth the effort.

 

[suomi1]

I haven't tested this iteration of Sophy over the long haul yet (aka 30minutes, 60 minutes, etc). The most I have done is 15 laps, and I have yet to do better than a 0.5 second lead to the win, after starting myself 5th. I did a few 15 lap races from last and I managed to get to mid pack ONCE.

You won't, that's how rubberbanding works. That's also why you won't enjoy any longer endurance race involving tires degradation and fuel.

I stopped trying to set grids for Sophy, that's even worse than regular AI when it comes to balancing the cars. Not to mention the time needed. Even if I play less and less, I continue to favor basic AI over Sophy. Broken for broken, I prefer the easy method.

 

[Voodoovaj]

You won't, that's how rubberbanding works. That's also why you won't enjoy any longer endurance race involving tires degradation and fuel.

I stopped trying to set grids for Sophy, that's even worse than regular AI when it comes to balancing the cars. Not to mention the time needed. Even if I play less and less, I continue to favor basic AI over Sophy. Broken for broken, I prefer the easy method.

If you're preference is the basic AI over Sophy on boost weak, the problem is definitely you. Your statement is so far from reality, I have to question if it's even a true statement.

 

[benjoi84]

If the cars in your example were tuned identically, then does that mean you can now use the vanilla "everyone in my car" default rather than spending the time to create the grid (and have multiple instances of each car)?

Because...

Warning: It is work. Like making a livery, or tuning a car, there is a time investment in making a good race.

This is the part I can't get over

 

[ShonnDaylee]

If the cars in your example were tuned identically, then does that mean you can now use the vanilla "everyone in my car" default rather than spending the time to create the grid (and have multiple instances of each car)?

Because...

This is the part I can't get over

Yes. The only downside being every car will look identical.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Try setting boost to weak.

If you think they're useless, then you have done something incorrectly. As @eran0004 set your boost to weak. Do not use the quick race. it MUST be a custom race.


Yes, several people in the custom race thread have have discovered this.


And, some races require more work than others. For instance, I am trying to put together a Gallardo Super Trofeo, but the Gallardo's default set up is horrendous and leads to massive chaos. Many of the default setups can be a problem, so be prepared to do little work to fix your cars. Once you have the cars set up correctly, it's well worth the effort.

Have been doing this for a long while to not set boost to weak. Sophy is still useless at Le Mans, specially getting to the Porsche Curves.

Didn't find that much of a improvement running Interlagos in my Porsche Cup (1995 911 ClubSport). Seems like a placebo effect to me.

 

[ShonnDaylee]

Have been doing this for a long while to not set boost to weak.

So.... You are or are not setting boost to weak?

 

[wowbaggerBR]

So.... You are or are not setting boost to weak?

Yes, thought this was clear?

 

[ShonnDaylee]

Yes, thought this was clear?

It isn't a yes or no question. There were two options. Are you setting it to weak, or are you not (please don't just say yes again...lol)

So, if you're NOT setting boost to weak you SHOULD be. The grid will be much more competitive (more challenging) if you DO set it to weak.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Have been doing this for a long while to not set boost to weak. Sophy is still useless at Le Mans, specially getting to the Porsche Curves.

Didn't find that much of a improvement running Interlagos in my Porsche Cup (1995 911 ClubSport). Seems like a placebo effect to me.

Then I will reiterate, you are doing it incorrectly.

As I mentioned in the original post, and as I have posted in the custom race thread, the boost settings are set up incorrectly. Boost "weak", although it appears to be intended to boost the player, actually boosts Sophy up to a DR A level of play.

Set you Group C cars to 850 (I actually prefer 800pp), give Sophy the 787 B and let me know how that works out for you.

If the cars in your example were tuned identically, then does that mean you can now use the vanilla "everyone in my car" default rather than spending the time to create the grid (and have multiple instances of each car)?

Because...

This is the part I can't get over

Sort of. The "One Make" still gives you the garage car with no tune. If you want to use equal cars, you can either give Sophy the exact same car, or, what many in the custom race thread do is create a grid. You need about 7-10 cars. It's worth the effort.

Of course, you must also have at least 19 cars in your garage, so tune them to the same PP and you're done. AS I said in the original post, you should give them racing tires. It's better that way.

I have a mixed 800pp Group C/700pp exotics from the 90's to 2000's Huge fun. The sky is the limit.

 

[ShonnDaylee]

Set you Group C cars to 850 (I actually prefer 800pp), give Sophy the 787 B and let me know how that works out for you.

Almost all my Group C cars are set to 800pp, which is also what I prefer.

A SOPHY race on boost (weak) with 800pp Group C cars (if they're all balanced with eachother, and all on RH tires) is white knuckle territory unless you're an alien (i.e top level driver).

I set up a SOPHY race the other day with a grid of 20 identical Honda S800's on RH tires (Pro difficulty) of course set to boost weak.... and Oh lordy.... It is one of the most difficult races I've ever done. How anyone can think SOPHY isn't competitive is beyond me. I can only imagine it's mainly due to them setting things up wrong (like the default tire vs. RH tire issue with regards to the AI). If you spend a little time making sure to balance the vehicles, and make sure you're are all on the same tires, SOPHY is quite competitive... unless, as I said before, you're an alien. In which case, take me to your leader and show me your ways. I welcome and applaud our new alien overlords.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Speaking of Group C and Le Mans, here's my Group C (800pp on RM) on the last lap of a 15 minute race. I started 10th. First place is 11 seconds ahead.



Am I confident that after 30 minutes, or 60 minutes, or 6 hours, that I would far ahead of this group? No. I think I'd still be fighting to stay in touch. Maybe if I gave myself the 787B as well, I might be on equal terms, but this Jag is no slow car.

A SOPHY race on boost (weak) with 800pp Group C cars (if they're all balanced with eachother, and all on RH tires) is white knuckle territory unless you're an alien (i.e top level driver).

I set up a SOPHY race the other day with a grid of 20 identical Honda S800's on RH tires (Pro difficulty) of course set to boost weak.... and Oh lordy.... It is one of the most difficult races I've ever done.

Anytime someone says that Sophy is slow, I know they're not setting it correctly. It still has some sports where it has issues, sure, it isn't perfect, but it's better. I also noticed it doesn't out brake itself at the Spa bus stop like it has in the past.

 

[ShonnDaylee]

Speaking of Group C and Le Mans, here's my Group C (800pp on RM) on the last lap of a 15 minute race. I started 10th. First place is 11 seconds ahead.

Martin Brundle up in 3rd makes me happy. What a good bloke, and a former Group C Le Mans winner (in the Jaaaaaag).

Anytime someone says that Sophy is slow, I know they're not setting it correctly. It still has some sports where it has issues, sure, it isn't perfect, but it's better. I also noticed it doesn't out brake itself at the Spa bus stop like it has in the past.

This tends to be my thought process as well. When I first started setting up SOPHY races I wasn't aware of the default tire/racing hard tire issue, or boost weak... and as such I thought SOPHY wasn't all that much improved from standard AI. However, with the proper tires, a well balanced grid, and boost on weak, it's a whole new ballgame. I've made a couple races that I can't get anywhere near winning, and I doubt I'll ever be able to. I'm a pretty decent driver, and I can hold my own in most situations, but SOPHY set to Professional can sometimes hand me my own @$$.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

How anyone can think SOPHY isn't competitive is beyond me. I can only imagine it's mainly due to them setting things up wrong (like the default tire vs. RH tire issue with regards to the AI).

Anytime someone says that Sophy is slow, I know they're not setting it correctly.

While I absolutely agree with you, that's all still simply a huge f-up by PD in my opinion.

Yes, Sophy can be very competitive but most people will never figure this out.
I mean, out of 1000 people playing this game, how many will find this forum and the relevant threads that contain this information?

For example, there's a German YouTuber I like to watch (Dave Gaming, if anyone cares) who's playing GT since ages and is a really good driver. He made a video testing Sophy and even he didn't know that he has to set the boost to weak!

I play GT7 for almost two years now and even after all this time it still baffles me how little PD seems to care about their own game. Are they aware of all of this? I'm 99% sure they are. So why don't they change this things? Or at least the description of the options? It's absolutely beyond me!

 

[ShonnDaylee]

While I absolutely agree with you, that's all still simply a huge f-up by PD in my opinion.

Yes, Sophy can be very competitive but most people will never figure this out.
I mean, out of 1000 people playing this game, how many will find this forum and the relevant threads that contain this information?

For example, there's a German YouTuber I like to watch (Dave Gaming, if anyone cares) who's playing GT since ages and is a really good driver. He made a video testing Sophy and even he didn't know that he has to set the boost to weak!

I play GT7 for almost two years now and even after all this time it still baffles me how little PD seems to care about their own game. Are they aware of all of this? I'm 99% sure they are. So why don't they change this things? Or at least the description of the options? It's absolutely beyond me!

I couldn't agree more. While I love utilizing SOPHY AI, it's implementation into the game is laughably bad. As you said, you need to end up somewhere like GTPlanet to be able to figure out how to properly use the feature. When set up properly (Not necessarily how PD want you to, but that's another can of worms for another time) SOPHY can be one of the most competitive AI systems in any racing game. However, you have to jump through a few hoops to get there, and it's curious why they made certain features so hidden/incomprehensible to the average player.

Even though I have a pretty good grasp of how to optimize SOPHY, it takes quite a bit of time to set up each race. Between setting up each car, figuring out if they need to be on the default tire or Racing Hards (only two options, really), making sure they are all balanced with each other, and then setting up a 20 car grid manually... It can take an hour, in some cases quite a bit more.

If they would allow us to use one or two vehicles and just change the liveries to fill out a grid, it would certainly save quite a bit of time. Having to purchase 19-20 vehicles, set them up, and create/choose liveries for each individual vehicle is a bit much. It would be nice to have a more streamlined way to go about it.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Even though I have a pretty good grasp of how to optimize SOPHY, it takes quite a bit of time to set up each race. Between setting up each car, figuring out if they need to be on the default tire or Racing Hards (only two options, really), making sure they are all balanced with each other, and then setting up a 20 car grid manually... It can take an hour, in some cases quite a bit more.

Now that's the part that completely turned me off. I only did it once when I set up a MX-5 Cup.
Buying 20 cars already takes some time because of the animation/sequence playing every time you buy a car.
Then you have to go to the tuning shop to buy tires and parts. Then go to car customization to create a livery. Please wait while the livery is saved. Apply this livery? Sure, please wait again.
Back to garage, choose next car and do it all over. 19 more times.
When you're finally done go to custom races and set up the grid. Change driver name. Change nationality. (Not for Sophy though, 'cause the nationality somehow is "Sophy".... another strange thing)
It takes forever and three days....

I just don't have the patience for this.

 

[bliprunner]

Custom races with boost Weak are definitely worth your time, even with a random grid they are often quite entertaining.

Longer races with pit stops don't really work though as Sophy is rubberbanded to catch you when more than 1 second behind. If Sophy pits first and goes a long way behind you it will catch up at 10+ seconds a lap which ruins any strategy. This is also why it's impossible to pull much more than 1 sec ahead of the pack with boost Weak.

Custom races have loads of options but the one we really need is Rubberbanding: On/Off

 

[suomi1]

If you're preference is the basic AI over Sophy on boost weak, the problem is definitely you. Your statement is so far from reality, I have to question if it's even a true statement.

The problem isn't me, nor you. It's rubberbanding.

I get Sophy drives more like a human than PD's AI, therefore races feel more engaging. Yet, they aren't really races. PD's AI and Sophy have two rules they share : let you win if possible, stay around you if possible.

Drive a Tomahawk on your 800PP custom race at Le Mans and look at Sophy's lap times, then do the same with a GT3.

I played around 1000h just on custom race mode, so let me tell you I tried every possible configuration and close racing is never the result of AI trying to beat you.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Sophy is also very predictable. In corners where I take a wider approach she always passes on the inside just to be passed again because my exit is just faster. And on Nordschleife she almost always ***** up at Brünnchen. And there are some cars she's just not very good with, like the Ferrari Dino, she's constantly sliding all over the track, making it very hard to pass cleanly.
Still, better than regular AI.